Day After Day After New Year Test: Australia v India @ Sydney (Tue-Sat) Part 4

[Bomber Bears]

Who (from the big 4) is going to be the first to go? I think VVS

Dravid and Laxman could go at the same time, then Tendulkar. Sehwags a bit younger

 

[Pee Tear Griffin]

**** I wish Paine wasn't injured, he's streets ahead of Haddin as a keeper and a batsman

 

[glenferry23]

Dravid and Laxman could go at the same time, then Tendulkar. Sehwags a bit younger

agreed. sehwag is only 33 i believe so still is a couple of years behind the other big 3. sachin though looks he can keep going for another 2-3 years, just looks in brilliant touch here again.

laxman i think will go first and dravid shortly thereafter. india will likely come crashing down the pack, especially if this awful away form continues

 

[Carbine Chaos]

agreed. sehwag is only 33 i believe so still is a couple of years behind the other big 3. sachin though looks he can keep going for another 2-3 years, just looks in brilliant touch here again.

laxman i think will go first and dravid shortly thereafter. india will likely come crashing down the pack, especially if this awful away form continues

India have some good young players coming up, though.

R. Sharma
V. Kohli
M. Vijay
C. Pujara
S. Raina (if he can learn how to deal with the short ball)

It will be interesting to see how these guys will go picking up the slack when the big names retire.

 

[glenferry23]

India have some good young players coming up, though.

R. Sharma
V. Kohli
M. Vijay
C. Pujara
S. Raina (if he can learn how to deal with the short ball)

It will be interesting to see how these guys will go picking up the slack when the big names retire.

yes agreed raina really was worked over by the england pace attack. vijay feels like he's been around for a long time but still is only 27 and looked good in a couple of tests he played against us a few years back. but for me, pujara is the pick of the crop. he looks like a gem, just keeps getting injured

i think india will give strong consideration to replacing kohli with sharma for perth

 

[Bomber Bears]

You'd think with a cricket mad country of 1 billion they'd have a bit of talent waiting in the wings.

Cant produce fast bowlers though, which seems odd considering Pakistan, just next door and at one point a part of India, has had numerous good quicks.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Makes you wonder how a bloke like Irfan Pathan can't get a gig.

Four years ago he was MOM at Perth, had played 30 odd Tests, made a thousand runs at 30 with the stick and a hundred Test wickets.

Ok, he got a couple of mysterious gifts in his hotel room a couple of years ago, but haven't heard of him since.

And he's just turned 27 years old.

 

[Garuda]

India have some good young players coming up, though.

R. Sharma
V. Kohli
M. Vijay
C. Pujara
S. Raina (if he can learn how to deal with the short ball)

It will be interesting to see how these guys will go picking up the slack when the big names retire.

Vijay and Raina are hacks. Good for only IPL. Kohli has potential. Sharma and Pujara are the new hope.

 

[Garuda]

You'd think with a cricket mad country of 1 billion they'd have a bit of talent waiting in the wings.

Cant produce fast bowlers though, which seems odd considering Pakistan, just next door and at one point a part of India, has had numerous good quicks.

Don't know why? India cannot produce fast bowlers and Pakistan cant find good batsmen.

 

[Stronzo]

You'd think with a cricket mad country of 1 billion they'd have a bit of talent waiting in the wings.

Cant produce fast bowlers though, which seems odd considering Pakistan, just next door and at one point a part of India, has had numerous good quicks.

Apparently a player more or less needs to come from a higher cast to be selected for the national team.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I thought Doni and Sehwag were street kids growing up??

 

[Garuda]

Apparently a player more or less needs to come from a higher cast to be selected for the national team.

There are not much discrimination in the selection for the national team but caste politics happens in lower levels (state, schools, etc) which is even more asinine. Since national selection is more or less based on merit, the whole shindig appears unbiased but it is not so.

 

[Stronzo]

I thought Doni and Sehwag were street kids growing up??

Maybe they were, I am not saying it is a hard and fast rule, but from what a few Indians have told me your social background/cast is a factor.

 

[Stronzo]

There are not much discrimination in the selection for the national team but caste politics happens in lower levels (state, schools, etc) which is even more asinine. Since national selection is more or less based on merit, the whole shindig appears unbiased but it is not so.

Ah, so the caste bias at the lower levels will affect a young cricketers chances of being noticed by selectors?

 

[Garuda]

I thought Doni and Sehwag were street kids growing up??

They must have played street cricket. Pretty much every kid in India plays in streets. It reflects in the manner Dhoni and Sehwag play. Wont work in Perth though . Dhoni worked as a ticket collector before he got the national callup.

 

[Garuda]

Ah, so the caste bias at the lower levels will affect a young cricketers chances of being noticed by selectors?

Yup. I'm from the same state as Ashwin. In the late 90s, almost all the batsmen from the state team were brahmins (higher caste). Its weird considering my state was the first to oppose caste discrimination and only 2% of the population is brahmin. Ashwin is a brahmin.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kumble, Srinath, Ishant, Prasad, Agarkar are all brahmins . Sehwag, Dhoni, Zaheer, etc are not.

I don't begrudge brahmins. Some of them are/were our top players. But equal opportunity at the lower levels would have promoted more competition and hence better quality and winning attitude. We could have avoided watching players like Venkatesh Prasad in the lineup. His fastball WAS the variation. I think things are changing though. I hope.

 

[Stronzo]

Yup. I'm from the same state as Ashwin. In the late 90s, almost all the batsmen from the state team were brahmins (higher caste). Its weird considering my state was the first to oppose caste discrimination and only 2% of the population is brahmin. Ashwin is a brahmin.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Kumble, Srinath, Ishant, Prasad, Agarkar are all brahmins . Sehwag, Dhoni, Zaheer, etc are not.

I don't begrudge brahmins. Some of them are/were our top players. But equal opportunity at the lower levels would have promoted more competition and hence better quality and winning attitude. We could have avoided watching players like Venkatesh Prasad in the lineup. His fastball WAS the variation. I think things are changing though. I hope.

I just had a read of the following article:

http://atrocitynews.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/heinous-age-old-caste-virus-in-indian-cricket/

Quite an interesting read, in particular the following:

Siddhartha can see caste as a possible explanation for the Brahmin dominance, particularly in batting. “Traditionally, cricket has been an elitist sport, and in terms of the physique and what you need as a batsman, it’s more skill, wrist and angles than what you need as a fast bowler or fielder,” he says. “That probably explains it in a way. If you look at the body structure of the higher castes, you would find they aren’t as athletic as they are deft.”Cricket is also a game of long hours – both in preparation through many days in the junior ranks, to play and to watch – establishing an inherent bias towards those wealthy enough to indulge their passion. Twenty20 cricket may be about to change all that, with the find of the recent national competition being V. Devendran, who hails from the tribal regions of Tamil Nadu.Shastri believes more players from the regions will emerge.

 

[Garuda]

Really interesting to read this.

Where do blokes like Azharrudin, Zaheer, Kirmani, even Asif Iqbal stand?

They are all muslims. Technically Islam forbids caste distinctions. But since they are all from the same/similar culture as the hindus and their ancestors were hindus, some of them follow caste. I'm not really sure. Maybe these guys slipped through the cracks in the lower levels and their performance in the state level got them to the national level. Again my opinion is that caste doesnt get you in the national level but if the state cricketers are mostly brahmin it does increase their chances of getting picked at the national level.

More info here but always take with a bag of salt.

http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/just-4-of-population-but-7-brahmins-in-indian-xi/

 

[Garuda]

I just had a read of the following article:

http://atrocitynews.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/heinous-age-old-caste-virus-in-indian-cricket/

Quite an interesting read, in particular the following:

Take Indian hockey for example. It is our official national sport . You need a lot of stamina to play it. You won't find many brahmins there. I'm not saying there aren't any but less. If you look at our sporting history, we have had more success at hockey than any other sport. Until 1980s, India dominated hockey.

From independence until 1980, India played in 9 olympics - Won gold 5 times, silver once, bronze twice. Only once did India not win a medal. India also won 3 gold medals before independence. Just imagine if one group that is a small percentage of the population held monopoly that sport.

 

[Garuda]

I would have had Dhoni and Zaheer pencilled in for brahmins, both have have the Bollywood movie star looks.

No secret that most Indian players are from privileged backgrounds, you have to wonder though how much underprivileged talent gets overlooked in India. With a billion or so people they should be blowing every other cricket nation off the park.

Er, bollywood looks and brahmins are not always synonymous. I'm not brahmin but I'm bollywood material. Maybe as a bad guy .

 

[Stronzo]

Take Indian hockey for example. It is our official national sport . You need a lot of stamina to play it. You won't find many brahmins there. I'm not saying there aren't any but less. If you look at our sporting history, we have had more success at hockey than any other sport. Until 1980s, India dominated hockey.

From independence until 1980, India played in 9 olympics - Won gold 5 times, silver once, bronze twice. Only once did India not win a medal. India also won 3 gold medals before independence. Just imagine if one group that is a small percentage of the population held monopoly that sport.

Yeah, as plugger said there must be a load of talent that is not promoted to the detriment of the national team.

 

[Garuda]

Yeah, as plugger said there must be a load of talent that is not promoted to the detriment of the national team.

Yes and I hope for Indian hockey's sake, that its not too commercialized. In cricket these days, I only see overpaid hacks who are too busy making money on IPL and commercials and not showing heart where it counts.

Fast bowlers in India have another enemy. Nobody wants to go to the ground baking at 40 deg C and bowl on those flat roads that we call pitches. I would rather see some grass or a minefield of a pitch that turns from day one. I have had enough watching Gambhir play the nudge to third man in tests.

 

[The_Reaper]

Yes and I hope for Indian hockey's sake, that its not too commercialized. In cricket these days, I only see overpaid hacks who are too busy making money on IPL and commercials and not showing heart where it counts.

Fast bowlers in India have another enemy. Nobody wants to go to the ground baking at 40 deg C and bowl on those flat roads that we call pitches. I would rather see some grass or a minefield of a pitch that turns from day one. I have had enough watching Gambhir play the nudge to third man in tests.

It would be a good idea for India (and Australia) to get young batsmen to play a few seasons of club cricket in England (or if possible county cricket) to improve their techniques.

 

[Garuda]

It would be a good idea for India (and Australia) to get young batsmen to play a few seasons of club cricket in England (or if possible county cricket) to improve their techniques.

That's a good idea but probably won't happen with the BCCI. I think there is a ban on Indian players from playing county cricket. IPL has taken over Indian cricket and destroying it. Watching Dhoni, I get the impression that Dhoni doesnt care about competing in tests since he makes buttloads of money in IPL. Its time for true fans to boycott going to games in India - IPL and international events. Boycott is the best way to tell BCCI that lack of performance is not unexpectable. I see the bitching going on here about CA and INverarity, but I would rather take them over money hungry BCCI.

 

[Simple Jack]

In cricket these days, I only see overpaid hacks who are too busy making money on IPL and commercials and not showing heart where it counts.

That is by no means exclusively an Indian problem.

See VVB Haddin.