Depth Myth created by Herald Sun

[4#Didak#4]

We have some quality sports journalists down at the Herald Sun don't we? Their footy knowledge knows no ends. Just quality analysts who know their stuff. They speak we listen.

Their fantastic analysis of the Pies & Blues lists made me tear up my Pies membership & buy a Blues one so convincing (or convinced) they were on the vast difference in depth between the Pies & Blues.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/expert-opinion/collingwoods-depth-could-be-major-problem-in-september/story-fncqi979-1226299514917
I liked how they scoffed at Bucks assessment of the list, what would the the coach know.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/expert-opinion/carltons-depth-in-the-midfield-is-its-biggest-strength/story-fn6cisdj-1226322967211
There was so much love for Carlton's midfield depth in that article that the pages were sticky when they submitted it to the editor.
5 weeks is a long time in footy especially for these clowns.
Our bandwagon nearly collapsed with the weight of the Herald Sun journalists (yes Robbo is a fat c...) jumping from Carlton to Collingwood this week. I just want to push these idiots off our bandwagon and let the Richmond one run straight over them.
All the raving about Collingwoods wonderful depth (which apparently materialised from nothing in the last month) from these same clowns makes me want to vomit. Yes, I enjoyed their bashing of Carlton's pitiful performances and lack of decent depth players, BUT a month ago they were saying the exact opposite.
Fair dinkum my 5 year old has more clue what is going on than these muppets.
Anyone else in the public eye in AFL: club admin, coaches, players, agents, afl executives etc etc when they make a mistake they are made to publicly apologise & are flogged by these HUN flogs. They should be held just as accountable.

They will pass all this off as "opinion" pieces etc etc and so what we were wrong - its an opinion. Well, they are paid good money for their opinions, people pay good money to buy their advertisng & papers with their opinions in it. What if their "opinions" are rubbish, unfounded bullst made up to sensationalise & mislead the public? Well if it sells..........fair enough.

Sorry, thats my rant for the day and my "opinion" which may be wrong (my lawyer asked I insert this).

But seriously I think Bigfooty should have a section listing "opinions" published in newspapers (that are basically written up as fact....insert opinion clause now) that have then been proven to be a massive load of rubbish. Our own media watch if you will.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

All over SEN they couldn't stop talking about Carlton's amazing list depth and how shallow ours was.

They have no clue.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Just demonstrates that these "experts" have little to no clue. They just ride the wave of public opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

 

[jonbe54]

Just demonstrates that these "experts" have little to no clue. They just ride the wave of public opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

To those still paying for this pathetic rag - do what I did years ago and vote with your wallet.

 

[ralu]

To be fair, at the time the article went to print, our depth was looking a little shallow. We had injuries and lots of players on the list who had hardly played at all.

But credit to our coaches and recruiters, we have been able to get games/experience into guys like Sinclair, Seedsman, Paine, Elliott, Williams, Buckley, Ugle etc which has increased our depth. If these guys had not stood up like they have, we would be really struggling and have no chance.

This has added many strings to our bow and come August, blokes will have to be playing really solid football to get a game. Games will not be given out for free. Nathan Buckley knows exactly what he's doing. I really fancy our flag chances with him at the helm.

I do agree on Carlton though

 

[Markfs]

I always think it's good when journalists are concentrating on other clubs. They were in love with us last year and we lost the grand final. I'm not saying that the two things went together as we were favourite the year before.

Gerard Whateley is fairly intelligent guy who is sometimes able to say something interesting, as opposed to the emotional waffle that the bald-headed bastard dribbles on with. Gerard came up with the view last night that most journos don't investigate a story before writing it. He said that they just write their opinion. When sports journalists were actually journalists, they used to investigate both sides to stories and present the facts. Now, they just waffle on with their opinions. I couldnt care less what they think. I'm trying to find out what is actually happening.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I always think it's good when journalists are concentrating on other clubs. They were in love with us last year and we lost the grand final. I'm not saying that the two things went together as we were favourite the year before.

Gerard Whateley is fairly intelligent guy who is sometimes able to say something interesting, as opposed to the emotional waffle that the bald-headed bastard dribbles on with. Gerard came up with the view last night that most journos don't investigate a story before writing it. He said that they just write their opinion. When sports journalists were actually journalists, they used to investigate both sides to stories and present the facts. Now, they just waffle on with their opinions. I couldnt care less what they think. I'm trying to find out what is actually happening.

This is spot on. It has slowly crept in over the last few years where opinion has replaced fact or landed somewhere in between. They will sometimes start with fact to give themselves some credibility & then make up the rest E.G. Cloke has not signed at Collingwood..........hmm....must mean he doesn't like Bucks.

I like opinion, don't get me wrong, but opinion from people who know what they are talking about like coaches or players. Their opinion is interesting whether you like it or not as they are relevant. A journalist sitting in an office has no more authority or interest to me than most big footy posters. Their opinion counts as much as ours does in fact most blokes on here know more than they do.

They really need to stick to reporting the facts not making them up or telling us what they think/guess. The problem is that they needed to satisfy the huge demand for footy news - when there is none what do you do - lets make some. When that worked it just exploded and I am sure they now beleive that their opinion is news and that their opinion is relevant.

Opinion has always been there, but they would do "opinion pieces" and it was clear thats what they thought and was not fact- like Mike Sheahan. They never mixed the two together.

Bring back some good old fashioned journalists.

 

[themidlandmaster]

We've played 35 players this year, behind only Gold Coast and GWS. Depth looks preety bloody good to me!

 

[lgarth80]

I reckon we have the depth to be able to play 40 this year! Would love to see another 5 debutants when the time is right (e.g. vs GWS) - the only thing pressing us would be the salary cap. On our senior list are only 6 players left.

Krakouer and Macaffer - who we would all love to be at least fit enough to contest for senior action.
Josh Thomas - the one player who continually gets talked up internally. Just get him fit and I'm sure he will play seniors if only for one match.
Ceglar and Witts - TDs two favourites.
Gault is the other. Not sure who his biggest fan here is, but there are a few who reckon the rangy fella goes all right.

Then you can add Mooney, Hartley and Shae Mac (sympathy match) as options from the rookie list.

44 in a year? Who knows? If our LTIs keep mounting maybe we may be forced to go there.

 

[vjknight]

To be fair, at the time the article went to print, our depth was looking a little shallow. We had injuries and lots of players on the list who had hardly played at all.

But credit to our coaches and recruiters, we have been able to get games/experience into guys like Sinclair, Seedsman, Paine, Elliott, Williams, Buckley, Ugle etc which has increased our depth. If these guys had not stood up like they have, we would be really struggling and have no chance.

This has added many strings to our bow and come August, blokes will have to be playing really solid football to get a game. Games will not be given out for free. Nathan Buckley knows exactly what he's doing. I really fancy our flag chances with him at the helm.

I do agree on Carlton though

the point is these same media experts, as mentioned, are well paid, and it is expected they do a thorough job. but they dont. do they go to reserves matches to check on the depth coming thru ?
NO. do they watch all games from the comfort of their lounge chair, lodging their shit via the net, then sitting back thinking 'well that was a good day' ?

havent read their paper in years, and only use their website for breaking news.
otherwise its total murdoch bollocks.

 

[speedytiger]

Today the journos seem under pressure to say something, anything and fill up so much space. The opinions seem to change weekly.

The old saying about winning covering up all cracks is so true today. Lose a few games and your players can hate the coach, club can have no depth, bad gamestyle and so on. Win and all these things reverse.

 

[robertg22]

Completely agree, I posted about this the other day in the Pendles Injury thread. It just goes to show what a great system we have in place and how much work our development staff have done with the young players to ensure they can just slot straight in to play a role from day 1. Guys have come from left field and played significant roles. I'm talking about Macaffer, Blair, Fasolo, Sinclair, Keeffe... now Williams and Elliott look comfortable in the side and won't be dropped in a hurry.

 

[Captivating]

Cool, I'd take out shallow list over Carlscum's any day.

 

[twaters]

How long's piece of string?

We currently have a best 22, (including Sinclair 14 games, and Fasolo 22 games).
Plus short-term Injured: Reid, Pendlebury,
Plus Wood (62 games), Buckley (41 games) as backups (= 26 core group)

Then comes the long tail of our batting list: Elliott (2), Williams (2), Rounds (6), Seedsman (5), Young (4), Paine (3), Ugle (3), Yagmoor (2). At least Elliott, Williams, and possibly Paine should get more games as covers before the finals (= finals training squad so far of about 29).

Derek Hine suggested that Mooney, Ceglar and Witts might also get an AFL run this year somewhere. Most VFL watchers say JThomas might pinch a game late in the year, if only...

If only two of them stood up, then we'd have a finals training squad of 31/32 players, which compares well to 2010, and includes a good mix of talls and smalls backups. Injuries and form may still change all that.

Ben Johnson might be an additional late surprise, if he can keep some leg fitness up. He's come back well before, and now with shoulder finally fixed. Krakouer, Ball, Macaffer, Keeffe = season LTI.

Good list depth and balance remains at the Pies in 2012.

 

[rose jam]

What it shows is that our leaders can grow players and Carlton's can not.

 

[76woodenspooners]

OK, we have 7 wins on the trot despite our ever growing injury list. But c'mon, is anybody seriously claiming that they're not (very pleasantly) surprised by our apparent strong depth?

Some had deep concerns about Keeffe up until about rounds 3 / 4. Most people wanted to send Sinclair to Siberia up until the last few weeks. S.Buckley was copping a caning on here only until very recently. Many had scoffed pre-season about the possibility of Goldsack playing in the forward line. People questioned whether Blair was best 22. How many on here would have picked Marley Williams to debut ahead of Jarrod Witts? - fair to say that even Hiine would be surprised about that given the players he picked ahead of Marley (Lachlan Smith for example).

 

[blaze036]

Elliot + clarke for pick 25 looks like a freaking GENIUS move now...

Both guys are playing above that standard currently, and we got TWO of them.

 

[Copeland]

Maybe only Carlton knew the truth and that's why they recruited Rowdy, so as to try and replicate our system.
Carlton=wannabees.

 

[ipswichpies]

I think it is great testament to our spotting and development of young players especially,it is very hard to believe that we have been able to bring 6 debutants 4 of which are 1st yr player,s and to have it go as smoothly as it has.We have been developing this system for a while Mick as we know brought in Daisey Pendles Sidey all when they were 18 and all have been able to stay in the team and develop into the players that they are now.

We as a club do have our failures with young players but we have been pretty consistent with our picks over the last 5 yrs and the coaches do back them in Sinclair is a perfect example Buckley said all along he would fine and it is turning out to be correct"right in front of me"

 

[Markfs]

Don't get too impressed with our back-up players. The team structure is very solid and they are required to do a few well defined tasks.... keep up forward pressure etc. I remember back to the Essendon team of 2000 - the one that Essendon proclaimed the greatest team of all... ( one of the greatest con-jobs ever attempted on the footballing public ). Anyway, this team got a few injuries and, at the start, it looked like Sheedy could bring in any kid and he would perform his role perfectly. Everyone was amazed at the club's depth and people started to talk about 4 premierships in row. A year later, the team is in the middle of the table and struggling even though it's back to full strength. The rookie players who looked like a million bucks the year before, ended up looking slow and lacking in skills, and were really only short-term solutions. A good structure with good leadership can cover a lot of injuries, but when the system breaks down or when too many of the leaders are injured, the weaknesses in the rookies are shown up.

 

[Knightmare]

While I don't read the Herald Sun and can't view their articles as I'm not a paying member of the Herald Sun I don't disagree with their thoughts based on my understanding of what they wrote at their respective times of writing.

Before the season I had Carlton as my premiers and I also considered their depth to be the best in the league - and I still believe it to be very good. What hasn't happened which I was expecting was the continued development from last year in a number of their younger players and 2nd tier which just hasn't eventuated which has lead to their lack of improvement from last year.

Collingwood at the start had very limited visable depth. Allot of 1st-3rd year players with very few of these projecting as more than depth (as they were all mid-late draft selections). I've been incredibly impressed with the way the likes of Keeffe, Sinclair, Goldsack and Marley Williams to name a few who have been able to step up. Then the return of Marty Clarke to go along with the strong development of Beams and Sidebottom who have moved from B-graders to A-graders has kept us afloat and in contention which is incredible considering the key injuries we have had to endure. This list improvement and development is the prime difference between why Collingwood are having success and why Carlton are failing and no longer looking like a top 8 side if current form is any indication.

The thing you have to know about the media is that they can't predict anything. Instead what they are very good at doing is breaking down why a particular result eventuated and this is probably instead what you should expect from media - not correct predictions but instead correct annalysis after the event. If you expect any more of them then you will be sorely disappointed more often than not.

 

[tattooedswan]

Mark Steven's is the biggest tosser associated with anything AFL- FACT.

 

[danielnajdek]

Terry Wallace on SEN just before still has question marks over our depth. Find that puzzling considering he said he was over in Adelaide when we beat them.

Don't think he can say the words "I was wrong".

We will never get credit over our depth. Will only happen if we win the Premiership this year.

 

[blaze036]

Don't get too impressed with our back-up players. The team structure is very solid and they are required to do a few well defined tasks.... keep up forward pressure etc. I remember back to the Essendon team of 2000 - the one that Essendon proclaimed the greatest team of all... ( one of the greatest con-jobs ever attempted on the footballing public ). Anyway, this team got a few injuries and, at the start, it looked like Sheedy could bring in any kid and he would perform his role perfectly. Everyone was amazed at the club's depth and people started to talk about 4 premierships in row. A year later, the team is in the middle of the table and struggling even though it's back to full strength. The rookie players who looked like a million bucks the year before, ended up looking slow and lacking in skills, and were really only short-term solutions. A good structure with good leadership can cover a lot of injuries, but when the system breaks down or when too many of the leaders are injured, the weaknesses in the rookies are shown up.

Good point, all of geelongs kids look like a million dollars last year with the stars around them. However when the stars started to slow down the kids were exposed for the latish draft picks they were.

That being said, i think elliot fasolo are super finds so far

 

[ipswichpies]

Don't get too impressed with our back-up players. The team structure is very solid and they are required to do a few well defined tasks.... keep up forward pressure etc. I remember back to the Essendon team of 2000 - the one that Essendon proclaimed the greatest team of all... ( one of the greatest con-jobs ever attempted on the footballing public ). Anyway, this team got a few injuries and, at the start, it looked like Sheedy could bring in any kid and he would perform his role perfectly. Everyone was amazed at the club's depth and people started to talk about 4 premierships in row. A year later, the team is in the middle of the table and struggling even though it's back to full strength. The rookie players who looked like a million bucks the year before, ended up looking slow and lacking in skills, and were really only short-term solutions. A good structure with good leadership can cover a lot of injuries, but when the system breaks down or when too many of the leaders are injured, the weaknesses in the rookies are shown up.

Markfs
Nowhere in my post did I mention team structures or anything like that,what I was talking about was the club,s ability to identify and develop young players which speaking for myself only I rate highly.I also do not understand why Essendon was brought in the debate what they do or say either now or in the past does not concern me because I never made no outlandish claims of 4 in a row I have been a Magpies fan for too long to start espousing such rubbish as that even if I do dream it.

Another thing I would say to you about our kids who have come in and done a magnificent job is that they have been under pressure to perform right from the word go,with the injuries we have had and the injuries we seem to be copping on a weekly basis,these boys have not had the luxury of coming into a settled lineup and have been thrown in at the deep end right from the start and they have and even more importantly continue to do a great job.