Diet and nutrition

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Hey everyone! Here's my story.

32 year old male. 5'11" and currently weigh about 80kg. Always had a lean build and found it difficult to put on weight. I started training in October 2015 and stopped at the start of this year. I was working out 3-4 times a week for about 15 months. Of that 15 month period, 3 of those months were with a PT. I mostly did compound excercises of 4 sets of 10. I didn't go to the gym to lollygag - I went pretty hard. My goal was to put on size and look comparable to a footy player.

Over the journey I certainly got stronger, particularly during my time withe PT. But put on very little size and weight. It's demoralising working your arse off and getting pretty much nowhere. My patience ran out. I stopped training. I want to get back into it but I don't want to make the same mistakes.

I suspect something was wrong with my diet. So I have a few questions:

You need a calorie surplus if you're trying to put on muscle mass, right? So with that being said, when trying to put on muscle mass/size is it correct to say you should you either get a) more muscle mass b) more body fat or c) a combination of both? I put on very litte weight, fat or muscle. Was I consuming an insufficient amount of calories?

I understand the importance of eating protein, vegetable, fruit an carbs but it ok to supplement your diet with junk food to help get a calorie surplus?

Is it better to 'graze', meaning eating smaller meals, say, every 2 hours as opposed to the more conventional routine of having bigger meals at breakfast, smoko, lunch and tea?

Is there an easy way to get calories up? Force feeding yourself is horrible.

Finally, suppose I got back into it and went 3-4 times a week with an vastly improved diet. Would it be unreasonable to see a difference (not a tank but a noticable difference) between a before and after shot in six months?

Lots of questions and lots of rambling, I know, so any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
"Was I consuming an insufficient amount of calories?" - yes

Eat clean foods up to near your limits then if needed start adding in liquid calories (a few posts back I mentioned I was having a shake with milk, oats, eggs and protein that I can drink in 2 minutes and is worth about 1000 calories). If that doesn't work then begin to look at substituting a couple of clean meals for dirtier ones.

Yes you should see a difference after 6 months; if not you did something wrong.
 
Liquid calories were the key for me. Went from 69kgs to 100kgs. Protein shake with breakfast and another before bed plus eating everything I could. Shakes pre and post workout also if you are struggling with calories.
 

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Have others noticed that Woolworths no longer stock "Westgold" butter; Westgold seems to be have replaced with Kerrygold which is not ok for 2 glaringly obvious reasons. The first reason is that it is $5.50 which is more than double the price of Westgold and the 2nd reason is that our NZ neighbours make Westgold whereas Kerrgold has to travel all the way from Ireland. The carbon footprint is just ridiculous when we can get something just as good so much closer to home.

This is a mistake on Woolworths part. The only people that know about Kerrygold are the ones that read American and Northern hemisphere health bloggers and generally speaking, we do atleast part of our grocery shopping at health/organic stores, where we can buy expensive local butter. I used to go out of my way to go to Woolworths just for the butter, and whilst i was there i would grab some other items (sometimes). I'm struggling to think of a reason why i'd go to Woollies now that they no longer stock that awesome Westgold butter draw card.

I'm not buying Kerrygold for $5.50 when i can get superior local butter from the little organic shop down the road for the same price.

It's not just about organic these days, I also think about how far food has had to travel. I'm not a zealot, like, i buy organic irish salmon (i think it's irish, can't recall) but do that through lack of other options. Given the choice of 2 identical products i would definitely choose the most local.

I am disappointed about Westgold, i really loved that butter.
 
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nicky said:
Have others noticed that Woolworths no longer stock "Westgold" butter; Westgold seems to be have replaced with Kerrygold which is not ok for 2 glaringly obvious reasons. The first reason is that it is $5.50 which is more than double the price of Westgold and the 2nd reason is that our NZ neighbours make Westgold whereas Kerrgold has to travel all the way from Ireland. The carbon footprint is just ridiculous when we can get something just as good so much closer to home.
Click to expand...
I know Irish expats and people who lived there who love the fact Kerrygold is available, but I dare say they're in the minority.

Isn't Woolworths homebrand butter re-packaged Westgold? Will have to double check. Having a vegan partner my butter consumption has dropped considerably.
 
Mofra said:
I know Irish expats and people who lived there who love the fact Kerrygold is available, but I dare say they're in the minority.
Click to expand...

No doubt there will be some people that are very happy with the fact that Woollies is selling Kerrygold, including Irish expats and Asprey die hards, but the fact that we're importing it all the way from Ireland when we have good quality butter here seems insane to me.

Mofra said:
Isn't Woolworths homebrand butter re-packaged Westgold? Will have to double check. Having a vegan partner my butter consumption has dropped considerably.
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Would be awesome if this is the case.
 
nicky said:
No doubt there will be some people that are very happy with the fact that Woollies is selling Kerrygold, including Irish expats and Asprey die hards, but the fact that we're importing it all the way from Ireland when we have good quality butter here seems insane to me.
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https://iquitsugar.com/butter-taste-test/

A couple of alternatives, although supply might be an issue for some of the niche grass-fed producers.

There's something in here about Woolworth's butter being NZ grassfed: http://www.livingbulletproof.com.au/grass-fed-butter-in-australia/
Older link confirms the dairy suppliers are often the same: https://www.crikey.com.au/2011/03/31/stacking-the-shelves-home-brand-v-premium/
 
jason pm said:
Sounds like my DES diet plan ie. Don't Eat Shit.

Has a lot of elements of LCHF.
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DES / LCHF are pretty similar in a lot of ways
 
Hoping someone can help me out here

There was a infographic (or study) posted at some stage in the past 6 months highlighting the false equivalency between comparing predominately health conscious vegetarians/vegans with predominately non health conscious omnivores vis a vis health outcomes and mortality but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thinking Bazzar might be able to point me in the right direction.
 

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showdownhero said:
Hoping someone can help me out here

There was a infographic (or study) posted at some stage in the past 6 months highlighting the false equivalency between comparing predominately health conscious vegetarians/vegans with predominately non health conscious omnivores vis a vis health outcomes and mortality but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thinking Bazzar might be able to point me in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Is this what you were thinking about?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519
 
^ notsureifbotornot

Anyway, for the meal preppers who microwave their food what containers are you using?
I've got pyrex with the red lids (they're clear plastic with a red rim) and whilst the glass containers are fine, the lids are absolutely cactus.
Don't particularly want to buy new lids as I only got a few months out of them before they started cracking etc and I can't seem to find anywhere to buy just the lids anyway
 
How low do you go?
(When cutting)

Probably on 1600 cal ATM and feeling I need to go even lower. Trying to finish the cut and lean out the stomach before going into a bulk.
 
JG22 said:
How low do you go?
(When cutting)

Probably on 1600 cal ATM and feeling I need to go even lower. Trying to finish the cut and lean out the stomach before going into a bulk.
Click to expand...

It's an individual thing, depends on your height weight genetics etc.....1600 is low I wouldn't go much lower.

Have you read up on refeeds? Maybe you need a week or two at maintenance and then drop the calories down again.

How tall are you? What is your current weight and what is your goal weight?
 
saj_21 said:
It's an individual thing, depends on your height weight genetics etc.....1600 is low I wouldn't go much lower.

Have you read up on refeeds? Maybe you need a week or two at maintenance and then drop the calories down again.

How tall are you? What is your current weight and what is your goal weight?
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5'11
70kg
No goal weight, more of body fat % or abs goal. Not quite there, the classic very little belly patch left.

I'm just sick of the diet. I was 82kg after my bulk where I got fat, about 4 or 5 months ago. That's a fair weight loss, the body is pretty spent so refeeds might be an option. As is going into a leak bulk
 
JG22 said:
5'11
70kg
No goal weight, more of body fat % or abs goal. Not quite there, the classic very little belly patch left.

I'm just sick of the diet. I was 82kg after my bulk where I got fat, about 4 or 5 months ago. That's a fair weight loss, the body is pretty spent so refeeds might be an option. As is going into a leak bulk
Click to expand...
Do some research on Protein Sparing

"The Protein Sparing Modified Fast (PSMF) is regarded by many to be the most effective way to lose body fat while preventing loss of lean muscle and rebound binge eating due to nutrient deficiencies.

First developed in the 1970s, the PSMF has seen various permutations in weight loss clinics and the bodybuilding community."

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/06/17/psmf/
 
JG22 said:
5'11
70kg
No goal weight, more of body fat % or abs goal. Not quite there, the classic very little belly patch left.

I'm just sick of the diet. I was 82kg after my bulk where I got fat, about 4 or 5 months ago. That's a fair weight loss, the body is pretty spent so refeeds might be an option. As is going into a leak bulk
Click to expand...

I'd say at 5'11 and 70kg is pretty lean. Without seeing a pic you I'd lean towards a bulk to add more muscle.

Yeah 4-5 months is a seriously long cut, bulk up and then cut back a little more.
 
saj_21 said:
I'd say at 5'11 and 70kg is pretty lean. Without seeing a pic you I'd lean towards a bulk to add more muscle.

Yeah 4-5 months is a seriously long cut, bulk up and then cut back a little more.
Click to expand...
Yep, agree.

My lack of mass confuses me, especially because my lack of core/abs training on the bulk. The cut was massive cause I was rookie and got fat.

Starting the lean bulk from today.
 

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