Diet and nutrition

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JG22 said:
Yep, agree.

My lack of mass confuses me, especially because my lack of core/abs training on the bulk. The cut was massive cause I was rookie and got fat.

Starting the lean bulk from today.
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The only time I really think ab training is worthwhile is if you are lean and have no abs.....I'm 15% BF and my abs still show through everyone is different.

Just learn from the mistakes of your last bulk but don't be afraid to put on weight, extra calories is the best way to build up the muscle
 

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JG22 said:
Anyone tryed the keto diet?

Looks like it should work but too much commitment in the diet
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Been on it for over 2 years. Yes it is tough to start but everything is adaptable and can be replaced (carb wise). I have more energy and have shed 20kg coming down from 95kg.
 
Big Cox 88 said:
Been on it for over 2 years. Yes it is tough to start but everything is adaptable and can be replaced (carb wise). I have more energy and have shed 20kg coming down from 95kg.
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Do you plan on going back into a more standard carb diet?

I was thinking for just a cutting period because I hated my last cut on 150ish carbs. Then would be going back to normal which deters me as I'd need weeks for just the intital process and exit.
 
JG22 said:
Anyone tryed the keto diet?

Looks like it should work but too much commitment in the diet
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Check out ketogains (80 thousand members) it's the best keto resource by a mile, and it's protein focused not fat focused.
The biggest misconception with keto is it's high fat. Noobs usually get that idea based on the therapeutic ketogenic diet, and that's completely different to the standard keto diet the average person is on. therapeutic ketogenic diet is known as a 4:1 formulation where fat makes up 80% of calories and protein and carbs the remaining 20% it was developed by the Mayo clinic and is basically soy oil, milk proteins, fructooligosaccharides (cool word) and fortified with minerals and vitamins to meet essential nutrition. Revolting, but most experienced keto regulars eat is very low carb and usually very high protein with good amounts of healthy fat.
It's very easy to follow and the food is great and never ever hungry, and heavy lifters like in ketogains thrive on it all year round.

https://www.facebook.com/ketogains/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ketogains/?source_id=1392625537677698
https://ketogains.com/
 
JG22 said:
Do you plan on going back into a more standard carb diet?

I was thinking for just a cutting period because I hated my last cut on 150ish carbs. Then would be going back to normal which deters me as I'd need weeks for just the intital process and exit.
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No way I'm going back. All health measures and all the lean muscle gains I have made lead me to believe the medical norm of eat heaps of grains and don't worry too much about sugar is disgusting and is leading to diabetes, cholesterol and obesity.
 
I will say any "diet" you follow that allows you to stay lean and healthy is the one to follow. There is no magical diet that works significantly better than the other.

Sugar and to a lesser extent carbs get a bad wrap. Blaming sugar alone for the obesity crisis and health issues among people these days is far to simplistic.

I will say removing some sugar dense foods for more fibre filled foods will do wonders for someone to lose weight. But having some sugar won't kill you.

The availability of cheap calorie dense nutrient devoid foods, coupled with time poor people who have limited food knowledge and desire to exercise is for mine what is making us all fat.

Interesting I recently heard 60 years ago we walked an average 6km more a day than we do now, that's a marathon a week.
 
saj_21 said:
I will say any "diet" you follow that allows you to stay lean and healthy is the one to follow. There is no magical diet that works significantly better than the other.
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I agree there's no magic diet, but keto is completely different to "any" other diet because your body and brain are running on ketones and not glucose and those who regularly follow keto will argue for that reason alone it's better.
 
Bazzar said:
I agree there's no magic diet, but keto is completely different to "any" other diet because your body and brain are running on ketones and not glucose and those who regularly follow keto will argue for that reason alone it's better.
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I tried Keto and didn't like it, personally I don't like the low protein intake.
 

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Bazzar said:
Low protein? It's a high protein diet.

How long did you follow it for? (strict)
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My understanding the high protein intake can induce gluconeogensis and negate the keto affect

Followed it for 5-6 weeks, could of been stricter but as I wasn't enjoying it I didn't stick to it.
 
saj_21 said:
My understanding the high protein intake can induce gluconeogensis and negate the keto affect

Followed it for 5-6 weeks, could of been stricter but as I wasn't enjoying it I didn't stick to it.
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It's a bit of a myth, as pointed out above check Ketogains.
Also maybe if you try a low carb-high protein version you will enjoy it more, plus if your lifting the protein is way better than high fat.


Gluconeogenesis – The worst name for a rock band ever
Ketogains
"At least three times a week I am engaged either in the Facebook group or other places asking questions that generally go like this: “At what point do I eat too much protein and go into gluconeogenesis ?” So I wanted to provide a more thought out answer, so here goes...

..... At this point, you’re probably asking yourself, “What is the takeaway from the science?” The best that the scientific studies can tell us is this: The rate of gluconeogenesis is essentially fixed, and there’s not much that we can do to change it. Certainly, what you eat can manipulate insulin and slow down GNG, but there is no evidence that we can speed up GNG by consuming more protein (or lactate, or glycerol, or anything else).

https://ketogains.com/wp-content/ca...s-wont-kick-you-out-ketosis//_index.html_gzip
 
Bazzar said:
It's a bit of a myth, as pointed out above check Ketogains.
Also maybe if you try a low carb-high protein version you will enjoy it more, plus if your lifting the protein is way better than high fat.


Gluconeogenesis – The worst name for a rock band ever
Ketogains
"At least three times a week I am engaged either in the Facebook group or other places asking questions that generally go like this: “At what point do I eat too much protein and go into gluconeogenesis ?” So I wanted to provide a more thought out answer, so here goes...

..... At this point, you’re probably asking yourself, “What is the takeaway from the science?” The best that the scientific studies can tell us is this: The rate of gluconeogenesis is essentially fixed, and there’s not much that we can do to change it. Certainly, what you eat can manipulate insulin and slow down GNG, but there is no evidence that we can speed up GNG by consuming more protein (or lactate, or glycerol, or anything else).

https://ketogains.com/wp-content/ca...s-wont-kick-you-out-ketosis//_index.html_gzip
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I could post a bunch articles the suggest otherwise and some of these are in keto sights. I'm no scientist so not sure who to believe.

No thanks

I've got down to 5% BF whilst eating 200g of carbs a day
 
This is what Lyle McDonald has to say on high fat v high protein keto diet






Ketogenic Diets: High-fat or High-Protein – Q&A

Question: I’m familiar with the “true” ketogenic diet of 90% fat which historically is a medical diet used to assist in controlling seizure prone individuals, but it has the added advantage of being a fantastic way to shed weight while keeping the brain fed. In your RAPID FAT LOSS diet, you say it’s basically a ketogenic diet but without the dietary fat – why? If I were to choose between the 2 ketogenic diets, why choose 90-95% PROTEIN over 90-95% FAT????

Answer: The issue, as always, comes down to a matter of context. The original epilepsy ketogenic diet was developed, as you note to control seizures. And for whatever reason, at least one aspect of that was developing very, very deep degrees of ketosis. For this reason, a very high dietary fat content and lowish protein intake is necessary. This is for reasons discussed in Ketosis and the Ketogenic Ratio – Q&A. Protein has about a half anti-ketogenic effect and too much dietary protein can inhibit ketosis. Which makes the epilepsy diet not work. So in that context, the diet had to be set up with very high fat and low protein.

And while such a diet may make people lose WEIGHT quickly, simply losing WEIGHT is not necessarily the goal. Rather, the goal is (or should be) to lose FAT while maintaining MUSCLE mass. I discussed this difference in some detail in the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook itself (as well as in every other of my books) or you can read the article What Does Body Composition Mean?

That is, people who want to change body composition aren’t just interested in weight loss per se, they want to maximize fat loss while (generally speaking) minimizing the loss of lean body mass. And the simple fact is that a 90% fat ketogenic diet, due to the low protein content won’t do that. Rather, dietary protein has to be set at a certain level to avoid lean body mass losses.

And since the explicit goal of the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook diet is to maximize fat loss (again while minimizing lean body mass loss) that also means cutting calories to the bone. That means reducing dietary fat to minimal levels (only essential fatty acids). And, mind you, such a diet would be wholly inappropriate (it wouldn’t work) for epilepsy treatment.


And that’s your answer. If the goal were epilepsy treatment, the high-fat ketogenic diet would be the appropriate choice (I’d point anyone interested in this topic to The Ketogenic Diet: A Treatment for Epilepsy, 3rd Edition (Paperback) by Freeman, Freeman and Kelly). But assuming the goal is maximal fat loss with no muscle loss (e.g. the goal of most who read my site), a higher protein intake is required and the very high-fat version of the ketogenic diet would be wholly inappropriate.

And, in the context of Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, given the explicit goals of that diet, that means keeping fat intake very low (limited only to essential fatty acids and the tagalongs that are unavoidable with whole foods). Of course, more moderate ketogenic diets with sufficient dietary protein and higher dietary fat intakes can also be set up as described in my first book The Ketogenic Diet. The rate of fat loss will simply be slower on such a diet due to the higher caloric intake. But that may be a reasonable compromise for reasons discussed in Setting the Deficit – Small, Moderate, or Large.

Hope that clears it up and thanks for the question.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/ketogenic-diets-high-fat-or-high-protein-qa.html/
 
Training Mad said:
Yesterday i started the nequalsmany carnivore study, has anyone on here started this?
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I know a few who are doing it, all up around n=430 I think. Interesting how people slam it, but the results of those zero carbers are amazing. Somehow I doubt it would go down well here ;)

Keep us posted on your journey.

People can follow the doc Shawn Bake who is organising it on twitter.
https://twitter.com/sbakermd?lang=en
 
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Bazzar said:
I know a few who are doing it, all up around n=430 I think. Interesting how people slam it, but the results of those zero carbers are amazing. Somehow I doubt it would go down well here ;)

Keep us posted on your journey.

People can follow the doc Shawn Bake who is organising it on twitter.
https://twitter.com/sbakermd?lang=en
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3 days in feel good, sore legs hamstrings only issue, I'm not worried how it goes down on here, I was only checking if there was any big footy carnivores
 
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nicky said:
Have others noticed that Woolworths no longer stock "Westgold" butter; Westgold seems to be have replaced with Kerrygold which is not ok for 2 glaringly obvious reasons. The first reason is that it is $5.50 which is more than double the price of Westgold and the 2nd reason is that our NZ neighbours make Westgold whereas Kerrgold has to travel all the way from Ireland. The carbon footprint is just ridiculous when we can get something just as good so much closer to home.

This is a mistake on Woolworths part. The only people that know about Kerrygold are the ones that read American and Northern hemisphere health bloggers and generally speaking, we do atleast part of our grocery shopping at health/organic stores, where we can buy expensive local butter. I used to go out of my way to go to Woolworths just for the butter, and whilst i was there i would grab some other items (sometimes). I'm struggling to think of a reason why i'd go to Woollies now that they no longer stock that awesome Westgold butter draw card.

I'm not buying Kerrygold for $5.50 when i can get superior local butter from the little organic shop down the road for the same price.

It's not just about organic these days, I also think about how far food has had to travel. I'm not a zealot, like, i buy organic irish salmon (i think it's irish, can't recall) but do that through lack of other options. Given the choice of 2 identical products i would definitely choose the most local.

I am disappointed about Westgold, i really loved that butter.
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Kerrygold is half price this week at Woolworths.
i know it doesnt change the carbon footprint, im just saying.
 

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