Diet and nutrition

[Aeglos]

Don’t typically find diet stuff all that interesting, but this I did

“In short, the Okinawans circa 1950 ate sweet potatoes for 849 grams of the 1262 grams of food that they consumed, which constituted 69% of their total calories”
“In addition to their high life expectancy, islanders are noted for their low mortality from cardiovascular disease and certain types of cancers. Wilcox (2007) compared age-adjusted mortality of Okinawans versus Americans and found that, during 1995, an average Okinawan was 8 times less likely to die from coronary heart disease, 7 times less likely to die from prostate cancer, 6.5 times less likely to die from breast cancer, and 2.5 times less likely to die from colon cancer than an average American of the same age.”
“The traditional Okinawan diet as described above was widely practiced on the islands until about the 1960s. Since then, dietary practices have been shifting towards Western and Japanese patterns, with fat intake rising from about 6% to 27% of total caloric intake and the sweet potato being supplanted with rice and bread.[9] This shifting trend has also coincided with a decrease in longevity, where Okinawans now have a lower life expectancy than the Japanese average”

1949 diet
https://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-04-06-1428343907-9524763-1949jpokokokodiet.png

1989 diet
https://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-04-06-1428343487-9156833-1989JPOK.png

Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'm trying to read up as much as I can on diet and nutrition and FMD there's a lot of hype-fulled, contradictory, confusing stuff.

I've adopted a no (processed) carb/sugar diet for the last 3 weeks or so with a cheat day. So I eat fruit. I eat a lot of roasted veggies, especially pumpkin and sweet potato. I'm a 35 year old that goes to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. Have just started experimenting with new HIIT programs. It seems to be working well now that I'm used to the balance of it. I've lost that excess kilo I was carrying and now looking to tone up properly.

But there's this nagging thought in the back of my head (or, around my mates, they just say it straight out) that the whole thing is a crock. Arguments like: "Carbs are good - you need carbs." "It's just calories in/calories out. Moderation is all you need", "carb control and sugar free diets is just for people who are obese and diabetic - you're fit and healthy so you don't need it". etc etc.

I have the discipline to adopt black/white rules (like no pasta/rice/bread for example). But am really good at cutting corners and lying to myself if I'm trying to do calorie counting/portion control type methods

Any general advice towards the following would be really useful as I catch up on the history of this thread:
- Reputable scientific-backed diet approaches to maintaining a low level of body fat.
- Any links to good diet/exercise plans that don't require excessive measuring/recording
- Any potential rookie mistakes I could be making considering I've just adopted an adjusted version of the 4 hour body.

Thanks to all - glad to have found this part of bigfooty

 

[Big Cox 88]

I'm trying to read up as much as I can on diet and nutrition and FMD there's a lot of hype-fulled, contradictory, confusing stuff.

I've adopted a no (processed) carb/sugar diet for the last 3 weeks or so with a cheat day. So I eat fruit. I eat a lot of roasted veggies, especially pumpkin and sweet potato. I'm a 35 year old that goes to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. Have just started experimenting with new HIIT programs. It seems to be working well now that I'm used to the balance of it. I've lost that excess kilo I was carrying and now looking to tone up properly.

But there's this nagging thought in the back of my head (or, around my mates, they just say it straight out) that the whole thing is a crock. Arguments like: "Carbs are good - you need carbs." "It's just calories in/calories out. Moderation is all you need", "carb control and sugar free diets is just for people who are obese and diabetic - you're fit and healthy so you don't need it". etc etc.

I have the discipline to adopt black/white rules (like no pasta/rice/bread for example). But am really good at cutting corners and lying to myself if I'm trying to do calorie counting/portion control type methods

Any general advice towards the following would be really useful as I catch up on the history of this thread:
- Reputable scientific-backed diet approaches to maintaining a low level of body fat.
- Any links to good diet/exercise plans that don't require excessive measuring/recording
- Any potential rookie mistakes I could be making considering I've just adopted an adjusted version of the 4 hour body.

Thanks to all - glad to have found this part of bigfooty

Check out Mark Sissons primal blueprint or keto reset diet, the audiobooks are great and so are his blog posts in general. There was a meta-analysis of all research on low carb eating called the PURE study, googling that will net you some reading.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Check out Mark Sissons primal blueprint or keto reset diet, the audiobooks are great and so are his blog posts in general. There was a meta-analysis of all research on low carb eating called the PURE study, googling that will net you some reading.

Thanks for that.

A nutritionist friend has warned me off keto so keen to read up more and have a better discussion with her before dismissing it entirely

 

[Bazzar]

Thanks for that.

A nutritionist friend has warned me off keto so keen to read up more and have a better discussion with her before dismissing it entirely

Out of curiosity what were her main concerns?

 

[Big Cox 88]

Thanks for that.

A nutritionist friend has warned me off keto so keen to read up more and have a better discussion with her before dismissing it entirely

I've been on it for 3 years, shed 30kg and have endless energy and building muscle well. Friends and family think I am crazy but they are the ones getting in worse and worse shape both energy wise and weight wise.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Out of curiosity what were her main concerns?

That ketosis is a form of unhealthy shock to the system that is useful in startvation environments but a horrible thing to intentionally inflict on yourself as a regular state.

 

[Bazzar]

"Optimising Nutrition" is the best Aussie site that focuses on nutrient density, insulin loads etc for various diets like Paleo, Keto, LCHF, Vegan, type 2, fasting, body builders/athletes plus many great links. Fantastic reading

https://optimisingnutrition.com/index-start-here/

 

[Bazzar]

That ketosis is a form of unhealthy shock to the system that is useful in startvation environments but a horrible thing to intentionally inflict on yourself as a regular state.

Unfortunately dietitians and nutritionists are taught (brainwashed) this at uni, fortunately more and more are now looking at a well formulated keto diet as a viable healthy alternative.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Unfortunately dietitians and nutritionists are taught (brainwashed) this at uni, fortunately more and more are now looking at a well formulated keto diet as a viable healthy alternative.

I’m pretty hesitant to call nutritionists brainwashed. in fields like nutrition which are highly contentious and very hard to experiment on because it’s an entire system, my default is to go to the science which usually comes from universities (or big business but they’re not as public with their findings.)

There have been times when I’ve approached university staff only to be told that “you’d have better luck googling the answers than speaking to anybody here” (was in reference to digital marketing evidence though)

But - I’m here to learn, not to prejudge, so I’ll read the links posted already and probably have more questions soon.

 

[saj_21]

I'm trying to read up as much as I can on diet and nutrition and FMD there's a lot of hype-fulled, contradictory, confusing stuff.

I've adopted a no (processed) carb/sugar diet for the last 3 weeks or so with a cheat day. So I eat fruit. I eat a lot of roasted veggies, especially pumpkin and sweet potato. I'm a 35 year old that goes to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. Have just started experimenting with new HIIT programs. It seems to be working well now that I'm used to the balance of it. I've lost that excess kilo I was carrying and now looking to tone up properly.

But there's this nagging thought in the back of my head (or, around my mates, they just say it straight out) that the whole thing is a crock. Arguments like: "Carbs are good - you need carbs." "It's just calories in/calories out. Moderation is all you need", "carb control and sugar free diets is just for people who are obese and diabetic - you're fit and healthy so you don't need it". etc etc.

I have the discipline to adopt black/white rules (like no pasta/rice/bread for example). But am really good at cutting corners and lying to myself if I'm trying to do calorie counting/portion control type methods

Any general advice towards the following would be really useful as I catch up on the history of this thread:
- Reputable scientific-backed diet approaches to maintaining a low level of body fat.
- Any links to good diet/exercise plans that don't require excessive measuring/recording
- Any potential rookie mistakes I could be making considering I've just adopted an adjusted version of the 4 hour body.

Thanks to all - glad to have found this part of bigfooty

Honestly just read as much as you can and trial different eating patterns/styles etc. and you will settle on something that will for your lifestyle.

Carbs aren’t the devil but if you feel better without them then cut back but if you feel you are really depriving yourself then include them in your diet.

And very simple calorie deficit will drive weightloss, how you achieve this calorie deficit is up to you. Some can do it high fat low carb, others just eat meat, some will do flexible dieting. And I will say as annoying as it is measuring and tracking food for a couple of months will give you the ability to guesstimate food portions.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Honestly just read as much as you can and trial different eating patterns/styles etc. and you will settle on something that will for your lifestyle.

Carbs aren’t the devil but if you feel better without them then cut back but if you feel you are really depriving yourself then include them in your diet.

And very simple calorie deficit will drive weightloss, how you achieve this calorie deficit is up to you. Some can do it high fat low carb, others just eat meat, some will do flexible dieting. And I will say as annoying as it is measuring and tracking food for a couple of months will give you the ability to guesstimate food portions.

Yeah I hear ya - thanks.

I think the thing for me is that I can go on whatever diet, work hard, be strict, feel good for it and still wonder if I'm doing myself a hidden disservice/some kind of damage. Although, with the lack of overall consensus + the amount of hyped up fad-based things then it's worth getting used to people disagreeing with a line of action.

 

[Training Mad]

Yeah I hear ya - thanks.

I think the thing for me is that I can go on whatever diet, work hard, be strict, feel good for it and still wonder if I'm doing myself a hidden disservice/some kind of damage. Although, with the lack of overall consensus + the amount of hyped up fad-based things then it's worth getting used to people disagreeing with a line of action.

January is World carnivore month, if your looking outside the normal, meat water and salt, no calorie counting no time periods for eating, when hungry eat meat when thirsty drink water and then train hard.

 

[Training Mad]

January is World carnivore month, if your looking outside the normal, meat water and salt, no calorie counting no time periods for eating, when hungry eat meat when thirsty drink water and then train hard.

Ask your brainwashed - government driven - nutritionist if that’s healthy?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Ask your brainwashed - government driven - nutritionist if that’s healthy?

I can guess the answer.

But keen to hear more about this government-driven nutritionist conspiracy?

How do you decide who to trust for info on all this stuff?

 

[Aeglos]

I can guess the answer.

But keen to hear more about this government-driven nutritionist conspiracy?

How do you decide who to trust for info on all this stuff?

“I don’t trust the government. Instead, I place my faith in this skeptic. He’s the truth man, he says snake oil is the best thing ever and sells 100mL bottles on his website for $99.99!”

 

[Bazzar]

I’m pretty hesitant to call nutritionists brainwashed. in fields like nutrition which are highly contentious and very hard to experiment on because it’s an entire system, my default is to go to the science which usually comes from universities (or big business but they’re not as public with their findings.)

There have been times when I’ve approached university staff only to be told that “you’d have better luck googling the answers than speaking to anybody here” (was in reference to digital marketing evidence though)

But - I’m here to learn, not to prejudge, so I’ll read the links posted already and probably have more questions soon.

You only have to read the blogs and pages of ex-DAA members that have been expelled for giving low carb advice (even though csiro now endorse it) and those who've left after being cautioned (that number is rapidly growing) Jenifer Elliot (expelled) Feng-Yuan from Metro Dietetics in Melbourne are two in particular. Both not very complementary on the uni based education system ultimately run by the DAA.
The Blog "The Nutrition Press" is a good example, it's run by dietetic students and you only have to read their articles on Keto, Paleo, LCHF, Fasting etc to realise how biased and dare I say, brainwashed they are.

Interesting when it comes to nutritionists even the DAA themselves don't rate them. I remember two years ago when they put this on their web page, tweet and facebook ) the outcry and protest by Nutritionists was "massive" I thought the shitfight was hilarious. It's still on the FB page but's been heavily edited by half. Two years later and it's still fun the read. Its a good example why DAA has lost the plot and why they are losing credibility by the nutrition following public.

 

[Training Mad]

I can guess the answer.

But keen to hear more about this government-driven nutritionist conspiracy?

How do you decide who to trust for info on all this stuff?

You should eat what makes you healthy, so how can they give guidelines on what to eat?

The best way to find out what makes you healthy is to do an N=1 study, which is not what the government tell you to do. Every individual is different.

Also how much money do you think the big companies give them to tell you to eat there ingredients?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

You should eat what makes you healthy, so how can they give guidelines on what to eat?

The best way to find out what makes you healthy is to do an N=1 study, which is not what the government tell you to do. Every individual is different.

Also how much money do you think the big companies give them to tell you to eat there ingredients?

N=1 is not a study though, it’s an anecdote and the causation of effect can be easily misinterpreted.

Again, I’m not well schooled on this so forgive the example if it’s wrong - but steroids probably make you feel great and strong and look better etc but cause a set of undesirable side effects. I’m sure it would feel healthy but could be quite bad for you. I want to know what trade offs I’m making with all this.

 

[saj_21]

I never give any credit to government conspiracy theories, it gives them to much credit for actually being able to come up with a plan and execute it without anyone knowing or going over budget. This is all from a bunch of people that don’t even know what country they are born in.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

You only have to read the blogs and pages of ex-DAA members that have been expelled for giving low carb advice (even though csiro now endorse it) and those who've left after being cautioned (that number is rapidly growing) Jenifer Elliot (expelled) Feng-Yuan from Metro Dietetics in Melbourne are two in particular. Both not very complementary on the uni based education system ultimately run by the DAA.
The Blog "The Nutrition Press" is a good example, it's run by dietetic students and you only have to read their articles on Keto, Paleo, LCHF, Fasting etc to realise how biased and dare I say, brainwashed they are.

Interesting when it comes to nutritionists even the DAA themselves don't rate them. I remember two years ago when they put this on their web page, tweet and facebook ) the outcry and protest by Nutritionists was "massive" I thought the shitfight was hilarious. It's still on the FB page but's been heavily edited by half. Two years later and it's still fun the read. Its a good example why DAA has lost the plot and why they are losing credibility by the nutrition following public.

Now this is interesting!

But are you saying nutritionists or the DAA have lost cred here? You’ve said that DAA don’t even rate nutritionists but that they’ve also lost the plot.

I’m well aware of the influence of big business in these things which is why you need well guided skepticism. As mentioned elsewhere I’ve seen what corporations can do to public health messages about alcohol gambling and drugs - but nutrition gets really hard to interpret from my perspective. I read in a book by Gary Taubes that some artificial sweeteners were considered harmful to health after studies in rats, but the equivalent dose in humans would have required a 2kg intake of the stuff within a short amount of time. Even so, it was enough for the sugar industry to maintain its “natural and healthy” message backed by the USA gov and associated regulatory bodies.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I never give any credit to government conspiracy theories, it gives them to much credit for actually being able to come up with a plan and execute it without anyone knowing or going over budget. This is all from a bunch of people that don’t even know what country they are born in.

The real risk with following government guidelines in my view is that it’s rarely based on the latest and most current research. They’re also incredibly bad and slow at shifting paradigms if there is a new approach to an old challenge.

 

[Bazzar]

N=1 is not a study though, it’s an anecdote and the causation of effect can be easily misinterpreted.

Again, I’m not well schooled on this so forgive the example if it’s wrong - but steroids probably make you feel great and strong and look better etc but cause a set of undesirable side effects. I’m sure it would feel healthy but could be quite bad for you. I want to know what trade offs I’m making with all this.

N=1 is the ultimate individual study.

 

[Bazzar]

Now this is interesting!

But are you saying nutritionists or the DAA have lost cred here? You’ve said that DAA don’t even rate nutritionists but that they’ve also lost the plot.

I’m well aware of the influence of big business in these things which is why you need well guided skepticism. As mentioned elsewhere I’ve seen what corporations can do to public health messages about alcohol gambling and drugs - but nutrition gets really hard to interpret from my perspective. I read in a book by Gary Taubes that some artificial sweeteners were considered harmful to health after studies in rats, but the equivalent dose in humans would have required a 2kg intake of the stuff within a short amount of time. Even so, it was enough for the sugar industry to maintain its “natural and healthy” message backed by the USA gov and associated regulatory bodies.

DAA have lost the plot, with many nutritionists moving with the times and taking so called fad or alternatives like keto, lchf, primal etc more serious. The DAA are finding them a threat to the organisation because of it.

DAA base everything on the mythical 55,000 studies, but simply refuse to publicly list them and more importantly the actual process at how they arrived at the set of guidelines they now have.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

DAA have lost the plot, with many nutritionists moving with the times and taking so called fad or alternatives like keto, lchf, primal etc more serious. The DAA are finding them a threat to the organisation because of it.

DAA base everything on the mythical 55,000 studies, but simply refuse to publicly list them and more importantly the actual process at how they arrived at the set of guidelines they now have.

Yeah this is what I’m getting at. We all believe one source over another for some reason. You discount the DAA because they can’t produce the evidence that they are claiming makes them an authority - that’s a point of view I can really get behind.