Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[LRitz]

Importantly the only independent evidence of proof of life that day was PS who heard them playing between 9 and 9.30 but has since recanted. The photos and camera were under their control which means 9.37 can't be relied upon. I already had it in severe doubt given all the red flags pointing to the earlier timeline.

Agree. And the earlier time line puts the FF back in the picture.
If the photo was taken earlier, say around 8:00, there would be 40 minutes before FF is passing the tennis club.

FF did not know he would be captured on CCTV at the tennis club. FF drove past tennis club at 8:50 so he would be in Lake wood by 9:00. This gives 15 minutes unaccounted before he starts his work calls. He did not go straight to the chemist, even though this seemed to be something very urgent, as his receipt was at 10:19.

My questions,

• What time did FF SAY he left the house
• What was he doing between reaching Lakewood and starting work call
• What time did work call finish

The photo time of 9:37 locks in his alibi as he is on a work call. The work call was planned. Was the photo time of 9:37 coincidence or planned?

As suggested previously, it would have been easy to distract FD to what time WT went missing. After the photo she could have helped prepare the breakfast with FGM in the house. If FD asked where is WT she could have been told he is climbing trees, playing etc outside with FM. Knowing some 5 year olds they have poor concept of time, no use explaining minutes or hours. Better to explain in how many Bluey episodes.

 

[maggiethecat]

Agree. Not really a nice family photo. The FGM reading the paper, which i think is a week old! The kids have only just arrived so why not a nice photo of them with nanna? She seems to be ignoring them all. Three year olds don't draw much. So why is he given an activity he can't do. It looks like he is just throwing the crayons around. Is it all staged?

I’m not sure about staged? I’d like to know more about the relationship between foster mum and her mother.
Was FM trying to prove to her own mother what a wonderful mother she could be , hands on etc and grandma could see right through it and was ignoring her? If any of the timeline of the morning is true , I think FM was doing just this.

 

[31550]

There is no evidence about sleeping arrangements. Just what has been told by the foster family. Should we take anything they say as fact. Maybe the FF was up all night. We just don't know.

There is some evidence about sleeping arrangements. FF and FM both swore to the same arrangements (although FM marked the rooms incorrectly in her 2016 statement). FGM said she didn't know. According to Wendy Hudson's statement, LT pointed out the rooms they slept in to her on the Friday, not that long after the event, and this aligns with FM and FF statements (FM and LT in one room; William and FF in the other). So I find it hard to believe they are all mistaken or lying about exactly the same thing.

 

[31550]

My questions,

• What time did FF SAY he left the house
• What was he doing between reaching Lakewood and starting work call
• What time did work call finish

Great questions.
In his interview on Sunday the 14th they went over this twice. At this stage I don't think they had even got the tennis club CCTV.
This is what he says:

I know I needed actually
be somewhere in positioned in a, in a good location settled, set up my
computer get all my services ready to do my presentation at 9.30.
Um, so I did that I set it up in the car park I think it's, is it Lake Cathie
on the way out to Laurieton? ...
There's the, a Woolworths there on the left with the, I don't what it's or
how you pronounce it Khodary Pharmacist's
Ah, so I could see O.K. Khodary ah, I'd have to go there so, I sat
there and I was looking at the, at the Woolworths Shopping Centre.
And .1 was online um, and I've got phone numbers wherever I've now
put my phone, it's here. Um, I called, I had a, an online meeting with
ah, someone urn, in Queensland.
and then urn, I made a
phone call to a prospect on the way back. And that was at about
10.15. Ah, and then when I got here at 10.30 I drove up the driveway,
oh, I did oh, sorry I did stop off at the corner store for [FGM] to get
two papers.

Then later in the interview they go over it again:

Urn, now sorry can you just take me through you, you left about just
before 9.00?
Yeah.
And you went to Lakewood?
Yeah.
And you went to a chemist?
Yeah.
And - - -
Went to the chemist after my meeting.
Sorry and you O.K. So can you, you, did you drive to the shopping
centre - --
Yeah.
- - - or anywhere else?
No, just straight to the shopping centre.
Yeah.
Um, picked a position to sit in.
Yeah.
A And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat
looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to
go afterwards. Um, I kind of knew this was going to be a relatively
boring meeting because - - -
Q219 Ah hmm.
A - - - urn, I'd tried to set it up or I'd had, I'd had to reschedule this
meeting three times for someone in Queensland.
Q220 [23.45] Yeah.
A Urn, ah, I called them set up the meeting um, you know, the online
demonstration took a little bit of time to set up actually - - -
Q221 Yeah.
A - - - because urn, the initial one that we were, I was using it can't, a
product called WebEx didn't work.
Q222 Yeah.
A She couldn't get it to work so, I used another product we call you
know, call urn, ah, Go to My PC.
Q223 Yeah, and it's - - -
A Yeah.
Q224 Can you just tell me who that, who that online demonstration or, or
meeting was with again sorry I - - -
A Yeah, yeah. No, I can - - -
Q225 You did tell me.
A - - - I'll bring it up for you here it urn, urn no, hang on a second there
we go ah, the company was Friday morning. It's called Brody
Corporation.
Q226 Yeah.
A Ah, the lady's name is Joy Chesterfield.
Q227 O,K. And what time did that start and end?
A The meeting, the meeting started at 9.30 - - -
Q228 Yeah.
A - - - I always call early.
Q229 Yeah
Because IT or related issues in regards to sometimes, because
sometimes people use Mac's or PC's and sometimes I have to use
different types of products in order to set up the meeting.
Q230 [24.23] Yeah.
A Ah, and then we go through what they wanted to cover.
Q231 O.K.
A I, I always allow my diaries when I'm doing meetings with, with these
types of people though I always allow up to an hour.
Q232 Yeah.
A Ah, but in this instance, I knew it wouldn't go that long.
Q233 O.K.
A Urn, it went for and I think it for about, actually it's on my phone.
What's the number I called 7-2-9-0 7-2-9-0. Friday, thirty nine
minutes.
Q234 Thirty nine minutes?
A From 9.17.
Q235 And do you mind reading that number out for me?
A
Q236 Thanks a lot.
A So, then after that.
Q237 Yeah.
A I finished my meeting.
Q238 Yeah.
A I had also received a phone call as I went into sorry, I'm pretty. pretty
precise.
Q239 No, that's fine that's great.
A Mmm, um ---
Q240 [25.36} That's excellent.
A - - - I received a phone call - - -
Q241 Yeah.
A _- - -Ifrom I think this one here. And this number here think her name is Belinda Rankin, she is a recruiter.
Oh, no that's one I missed, maybe it's here, I can get her details, I
can't remember where it is, anyway it, so, it's one of the recruiters
rang - - -
Yeah.
- - - oh, and I rang back that's right I got her voice mail and straight,
and rang her straight back - - -
Yeah.
- - - left a message. So, I then rang her and spoke to her.
And just that number again . - --
Looks like it's _
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that right?
Yeah, that's right because she rang me on Thursday and left a
message as I was coming up here and I didn't want, I didn't know who
it was, I didn't recognise the number - - -
[26.25] Yeah.
- - - because you can see it's there on the Thursday. See on the way
up here?
Yeah.
5.29 I didn't want to answer any calls.
Sure.
Because I was driving as well as I had everyone in the car, I don't
want them to listen to that.
Ah hmm.
And so, that's when I rang back. Um, and then urn, so to the recruiter
while I was actually filling my script.
Yeah.
Filled the script
So, what time do you think that would have been, looking at that, that,
that call?
A Um - --
0256 That you would have had with the recruiter, 9.45am it's a missed call
is that right?
A Yeah, but then I would have called back - - -
0257 And then you rang back.
A - - - I would have rung, oh, that's the missed call.
0258 Yeah.
A But it doesn't show when you call your voice mail.
0259 O.K.
A So, I've rung my voicemail.
0260 [27.03] O.K.
A I've listened to her message.
0261 Yeah.
A And then I've gone 2-2. You know when, Telstra, you just put it 2-2 --
0262 O.K.
A - - - and it brings back that person.
0263 Sure, yeah. Yeah.
A But it doesn't show on here - -
0264 O.K.
A - - - it only shows the missed call coming in - - -
0265 That _ ?
A - - - not going out.
0266 Yeah.
0267 Mmm.
A Yeah, O.K. Then after that phone call and I was actually trying to get
her off the phone because I was in the chemist and I said, look I'm in
a chemist. I'm trying to fill a script, I've got to get home - - -
0268 Yeah.
A - - - I bet she's trying to sell me roles et cetera.
0269 Yeah.
A Um, and then I rang, this is an outbound calli, I had to make.
0270 [27.31] Yeah.
A This is a prospect of mine, it's called •••••••
0271 Yeah.
A In Breakfast Point.
0272 Yeah.
A In Sydney metro, her name is Corinne Paterson.
0273 Corinne Paterson.
A Paterson.
0274 Yeah.
A Her numbers.
Q275 Yeah.
...
A And I rang her to clarify her moving forward with the sale.
Q280 [28.021 O.K.
A And she said, it's all green lights.
0281 And what time was that [FF]
A Um,10.23.
Q282 10.23. Yeah. O.K. And then what happened after that?
A Well that was, I rang her on the way back from Lake is it Lakewood?
0283 Lakewood.
A All right. After I'd left the, ah, urn, there. I was making that on the
way back
A I was then stopped in traffic because of the roadwork's that they're
dOing on that, on the road back and into, towards Lake ah, Lakewood
and Laurieton - - -
Q285 Yeah.
A - - - it was a forty kilometre zone.
0286 O.K. Yeah.
A So, I stopped there ah, and that's then it I remembered that I had to
stop on the way back um, to get the papers for [FGM]
0287 Yeah.
A So I stopped in there and I, the lady knows me, I mean, you know not
that well but well enough. She recognised me and I said oh, have you
got the paper there for [FGM] oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0288 And where was that [FF]
Just the, the local urn, I even call it, I actually call it the General Store
in, in, urn, in Kendall as you come up the hill.
0289 Yeah.
A You know they've got feed for cattle and - - -
Q290 [29.05] Yeah.
A - - - and all that sorts of stuff as well as you know chocolate Mars
Bars, eggs and milk and all sorts of, they've got, they've got
everything.
0291 Yeah.
A Um, so I picked up those papers.
Q292 Yeah.
A Ah, it was at that point I'm pretty sure I sent [FM] a text saying um,
I'm on my way - - -
0293 Yeah.
A - - - I'll, I'll be, be there in five minutes.
Q294 Yeah.
A Urn, here we go.
Q295 And what time was that?
A 10.30am exactly.


So FF provided police with a pretty detailed alibi, including names and phone numbers of people to verify.
However, you are correct, there is nothing to confirm his actions between 8:50am (when he passed the tennis club) and 9:17am (when he started the meeting). He says he spent this time setting up the online meeting / demonstration. I guess police could have asked for more detail about this or asked him to show them what he did and why it took so long to set up.

I personally don't think 27 minutes is long enough to get from a fairly busy main road in Kendall, dispose of a body without trace in broad daylight, and return to Lakewood shops and start an online meeting.

 

[LRitz]

Great questions.
In his interview on Sunday the 14th they went over this twice. At this stage I don't think they had even got the tennis club CCTV.
This is what he says:

I know I needed actually
be somewhere in positioned in a, in a good location settled, set up my
computer get all my services ready to do my presentation at 9.30.
Um, so I did that I set it up in the car park I think it's, is it Lake Cathie
on the way out to Laurieton? ...
There's the, a Woolworths there on the left with the, I don't what it's or
how you pronounce it Khodary Pharmacist's
Ah, so I could see O.K. Khodary ah, I'd have to go there so, I sat
there and I was looking at the, at the Woolworths Shopping Centre.
And .1 was online um, and I've got phone numbers wherever I've now
put my phone, it's here. Um, I called, I had a, an online meeting with
ah, someone urn, in Queensland.
and then urn, I made a
phone call to a prospect on the way back. And that was at about
10.15. Ah, and then when I got here at 10.30 I drove up the driveway,
oh, I did oh, sorry I did stop off at the corner store for [FGM] to get
two papers.

Then later in the interview they go over it again:

Urn, now sorry can you just take me through you, you left about just
before 9.00?
Yeah.
And you went to Lakewood?
Yeah.
And you went to a chemist?
Yeah.
And - - -
Went to the chemist after my meeting.
Sorry and you O.K. So can you, you, did you drive to the shopping
centre - --
Yeah.
- - - or anywhere else?
No, just straight to the shopping centre.
Yeah.
Um, picked a position to sit in.
Yeah.
A And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat
looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to
go afterwards. Um, I kind of knew this was going to be a relatively
boring meeting because - - -
Q219 Ah hmm.
A - - - urn, I'd tried to set it up or I'd had, I'd had to reschedule this
meeting three times for someone in Queensland.
Q220 [23.45] Yeah.
A Urn, ah, I called them set up the meeting um, you know, the online
demonstration took a little bit of time to set up actually - - -
Q221 Yeah.
A - - - because urn, the initial one that we were, I was using it can't, a
product called WebEx didn't work.
Q222 Yeah.
A She couldn't get it to work so, I used another product we call you
know, call urn, ah, Go to My PC.
Q223 Yeah, and it's - - -
A Yeah.
Q224 Can you just tell me who that, who that online demonstration or, or
meeting was with again sorry I - - -
A Yeah, yeah. No, I can - - -
Q225 You did tell me.
A - - - I'll bring it up for you here it urn, urn no, hang on a second there
we go ah, the company was Friday morning. It's called Brody
Corporation.
Q226 Yeah.
A Ah, the lady's name is Joy Chesterfield.
Q227 O,K. And what time did that start and end?
A The meeting, the meeting started at 9.30 - - -
Q228 Yeah.
A - - - I always call early.
Q229 Yeah
Because IT or related issues in regards to sometimes, because
sometimes people use Mac's or PC's and sometimes I have to use
different types of products in order to set up the meeting.
Q230 [24.23] Yeah.
A Ah, and then we go through what they wanted to cover.
Q231 O.K.
A I, I always allow my diaries when I'm doing meetings with, with these
types of people though I always allow up to an hour.
Q232 Yeah.
A Ah, but in this instance, I knew it wouldn't go that long.
Q233 O.K.
A Urn, it went for and I think it for about, actually it's on my phone.
What's the number I called 7-2-9-0 7-2-9-0. Friday, thirty nine
minutes.
Q234 Thirty nine minutes?
A From 9.17.
Q235 And do you mind reading that number out for me?
A
Q236 Thanks a lot.
A So, then after that.
Q237 Yeah.
A I finished my meeting.
Q238 Yeah.
A I had also received a phone call as I went into sorry, I'm pretty. pretty
precise.
Q239 No, that's fine that's great.
A Mmm, um ---
Q240 [25.36} That's excellent.
A - - - I received a phone call - - -
Q241 Yeah.
A _- - -Ifrom I think this one here. And this number here think her name is Belinda Rankin, she is a recruiter.
Oh, no that's one I missed, maybe it's here, I can get her details, I
can't remember where it is, anyway it, so, it's one of the recruiters
rang - - -
Yeah.
- - - oh, and I rang back that's right I got her voice mail and straight,
and rang her straight back - - -
Yeah.
- - - left a message. So, I then rang her and spoke to her.
And just that number again . - --
Looks like it's _
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that right?
Yeah, that's right because she rang me on Thursday and left a
message as I was coming up here and I didn't want, I didn't know who
it was, I didn't recognise the number - - -
[26.25] Yeah.
- - - because you can see it's there on the Thursday. See on the way
up here?
Yeah.
5.29 I didn't want to answer any calls.
Sure.
Because I was driving as well as I had everyone in the car, I don't
want them to listen to that.
Ah hmm.
And so, that's when I rang back. Um, and then urn, so to the recruiter
while I was actually filling my script.
Yeah.
Filled the script
So, what time do you think that would have been, looking at that, that,
that call?
A Um - --
0256 That you would have had with the recruiter, 9.45am it's a missed call
is that right?
A Yeah, but then I would have called back - - -
0257 And then you rang back.
A - - - I would have rung, oh, that's the missed call.
0258 Yeah.
A But it doesn't show when you call your voice mail.
0259 O.K.
A So, I've rung my voicemail.
0260 [27.03] O.K.
A I've listened to her message.
0261 Yeah.
A And then I've gone 2-2. You know when, Telstra, you just put it 2-2 --
0262 O.K.
A - - - and it brings back that person.
0263 Sure, yeah. Yeah.
A But it doesn't show on here - -
0264 O.K.
A - - - it only shows the missed call coming in - - -
0265 That _ ?
A - - - not going out.
0266 Yeah.
0267 Mmm.
A Yeah, O.K. Then after that phone call and I was actually trying to get
her off the phone because I was in the chemist and I said, look I'm in
a chemist. I'm trying to fill a script, I've got to get home - - -
0268 Yeah.
A - - - I bet she's trying to sell me roles et cetera.
0269 Yeah.
A Um, and then I rang, this is an outbound calli, I had to make.
0270 [27.31] Yeah.
A This is a prospect of mine, it's called •••••••
0271 Yeah.
A In Breakfast Point.
0272 Yeah.
A In Sydney metro, her name is Corinne Paterson.
0273 Corinne Paterson.
A Paterson.
0274 Yeah.
A Her numbers.
Q275 Yeah.
...
A And I rang her to clarify her moving forward with the sale.
Q280 [28.021 O.K.
A And she said, it's all green lights.
0281 And what time was that [FF]
A Um,10.23.
Q282 10.23. Yeah. O.K. And then what happened after that?
A Well that was, I rang her on the way back from Lake is it Lakewood?
0283 Lakewood.
A All right. After I'd left the, ah, urn, there. I was making that on the
way back
A I was then stopped in traffic because of the roadwork's that they're
dOing on that, on the road back and into, towards Lake ah, Lakewood
and Laurieton - - -
Q285 Yeah.
A - - - it was a forty kilometre zone.
0286 O.K. Yeah.
A So, I stopped there ah, and that's then it I remembered that I had to
stop on the way back um, to get the papers for [FGM]
0287 Yeah.
A So I stopped in there and I, the lady knows me, I mean, you know not
that well but well enough. She recognised me and I said oh, have you
got the paper there for [FGM] oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0288 And where was that [FF]
Just the, the local urn, I even call it, I actually call it the General Store
in, in, urn, in Kendall as you come up the hill.
0289 Yeah.
A You know they've got feed for cattle and - - -
Q290 [29.05] Yeah.
A - - - and all that sorts of stuff as well as you know chocolate Mars
Bars, eggs and milk and all sorts of, they've got, they've got
everything.
0291 Yeah.
A Um, so I picked up those papers.
Q292 Yeah.
A Ah, it was at that point I'm pretty sure I sent [FM] a text saying um,
I'm on my way - - -
0293 Yeah.
A - - - I'll, I'll be, be there in five minutes.
Q294 Yeah.
A Urn, here we go.
Q295 And what time was that?
A 10.30am exactly.


So FF provided police with a pretty detailed alibi, including names and phone numbers of people to verify.
However, you are correct, there is nothing to confirm his actions between 8:50am (when he passed the tennis club) and 9:17am (when he started the meeting). He says he spent this time setting up the online meeting / demonstration. I guess police could have asked for more detail about this or asked him to show them what he did and why it took so long to set up.

I personally don't think 27 minutes is long enough to get from a fairly busy main road in Kendall, dispose of a body without trace in broad daylight, and return to Lakewood shops and start an online meeting.

 

[LRitz]

No not a body.

Thanks for that information. Lots of details but still a bit confusing.
He must have left latest at 8:47 to seen on CCTV at 8:50. He said he left around 9:00. I suppose for 10 minutes we give him the benefit of the doubt. But would have been in Lakewood by 9:00. So would have had time to go to the chemist before setting up for work meeting.

 

[LRitz]

There is some evidence about sleeping arrangements. FF and FM both swore to the same arrangements (although FM marked the rooms incorrectly in her 2016 statement). FGM said she didn't know. According to Wendy Hudson's statement, LT pointed out the rooms they slept in to her on the Friday, not that long after the event, and this aligns with FM and FF statements (FM and LT in one room; William and FF in the other). So I find it hard to believe they are all mistaken or lying about exactly the same thing.

They could have tried to get their stories straight.

 

[31550]

They could have tried to get their stories straight.

You think a 4-year-old girl capable of that sort of trained deception? And FGM says she doesn't know, so that sort of suggests she wasn't instructed how to answer that particular question. If you were concocting stories, you'd surely include FGM?

No not a body.

Thanks for that information. Lots of details but still a bit confusing.
He must have left latest at 8:47 to seen on CCTV at 8:50. He said he left around 9:00. I suppose for 10 minutes we give him the benefit of the doubt. But would have been in Lakewood by 9:00. So would have had time to go to the chemist before setting up for work meeting.

To be clear the interviewer prompted him, "So you left just before 9?" to which he replied, "Yeah." He didn't say he "left around 9:00" in this interview. I reckon if he left at 8:45 he probably wouldn't argue the point with the police about whether that was 'just before 9' or not.

Yes I agree he probably had time to go to the chemist when it opened at 9am, but maybe he thought it was later than 9am, or maybe the chemist was late opening, or maybe he was just anxious to get his meeting set up, not knowing what the internet was like or if the technology was all working (as per his statement), but knowing the chemist would still be there when he finished his meeting? If it was me I would have dropped the script off at 9am and come back after my meeting to collect it, but I hate waiting around. I don't think there's anything suspicious about FF not doing this - what mischief could he actually have got up to in those ~15 minutes if you're not suggesting that he used this time to dump a body?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Falls from heights among children: a retrospective review - PubMed

Although rarely mortal, falls from height carry a significant morbidity and are costly to the health care system. To decrease the occurrence of injuries caused by falls, strategies should include awareness campaigns, parent's education about the mechanisms of falls, increase parenteral...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I attach this link which gives us some idea of the likelihood that a child would sustain a fatal injury on fall from balcony. The incidence of death in that study was only 1..Surprisingly low a survival rate of 98%. This is what police are hanging their hat on. Though not directly stated you assume that height has a direct causal relationship with seriousness/ mortality

There are a number of tall ferns perhaps 15'. There is a carpeting of low ferns perhaps 1'. At various points it seems that a soft layer of soil/ mulch is usually there.. I recall from a driveway shot at the time that there was a pile of mulch ready to spread..

 

[Awakening]

I wonder how they checked his meeting went for 39 minutes? Was it technology, was it the customer Joy?

Was she seeing him the whole time or watching an online demonstration video?

Did he stay in the carpark the entire time or did he drive somewhere else for part or all of that meeting?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is an article which discusses some of WTs behaviors, the relationship with FM and the relationship with FD. " Furious" with FD..Seemingly low to non existent impulse control which is very characteristic of children from DV environments. Furiousness that probably stems from an inability to dominate his older stronger sibling. Coincidentally testosterone at age 3-4 is the highest level it will ever be for a male

An accident that happened several days beforehand which instead may have been demonstrative of the sibling relationship and self defence.

 

[31550]

I wonder how they checked his meeting went for 39 minutes? Was it technology, was it the customer Joy?

Was she seeing him the whole time or watching an online demonstration video?

Did he stay in the carpark the entire time or did he drive somewhere else for part or all of that meeting?

Not sure but I believe the 39 minutes is from 9:17 to 9: 56 and relates to an outgoing call made from FF phone during which he talked through some sort of online presentation done via GoToMeeting - so he was (allegedly) using his phone and computer at the same time. In the interview I posted above it seems the FF was reading the times off his phone as he was interviewed.

Police may have forensically examined FF's phone. Police could have checked cell tower pings during this period. They could have also verified the details of the GoToMeeting through Internet Service Providers, cell data usage, and by contacting the participants and checking their own phone and internet records, but I don't know if they did this.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Lets assume that FF did leave home just before 9. It's highly unlikely FGM wouldn't have known he was there for breakfast and instead they had 4. So from 8.50 app allow 8.30 if bike ride was before breakfast they did all of the following:

• bike riding before breakfast
• mummy monster with WT alone and then with the 3
• WT climbing tree
• breakfast of scrambled eggs, toast, juice
• play on verandah where they did drawing, dice and the WT dies daddy tiger. FGM estimates this was 1 hr on verandah

Let's try and recreate
Breakfast 30 min
Bike riding 20 min
Mummy monster, tree climb 20 min
Verandah play 60 min
Daddy tiger 10 min

2 hrs 20 min

So at start of 8.30 that takes you to 10.50 where we know he went missing some time around 10.20. it doesn't add.. Have I been too generous with time allocation? Who knows. But there is a lot to cram into that time

This is just another issue of why I conceive that the day started much earlier when FF was gone before 8.

If you use a start time of 8 and then roll forward you get to 10.20. suddenly it's not strained at all.

 

[31550]

Leys assume that FF did leave home just before 9. It's highly unlikely FGM wouldn't have known he was there for breakfast and instead they had 4. So from 8.50 app allow 8.30 if bike ride was before breakfast they did all of the following:

• bike riding before breakfast
• mummy monster with WT alone and then with the 3
• WT climbing tree
• breakfast of scrambled eggs, toast, juice
• play on verandah where they did drawing, dice and the WT dies daddy tiger. FGM estimates this was 1 hr on verandah

Let's try and recreate
Breakfast 30 min
Bike riding 20 min
Mummy monster, tree climb 20 min
Verandah play 60 min
Daddy tiger 10 min

2 hrs 20 min

So at start of 8.30 that takes you to 10.50 where we know he went missing some time around 10.20. it doesn't add.. Have I been too generous with time allocation? Who knows. But there is a lot to cram into that time

This is just another issue of why I conceive that the day started much earlier when FF was gone before 8.

If you use a start time of 8 and then roll forward you get to 10.20. suddenly it's not strained at all.

The day did start much earlier according to FM and FF. William woke FF shortly before 7am. They watched Fireman Sam videos in bed. The kids fought over a toy. William got dressed in his Spiderman suit. Then there is a gap in time before FF leaves. This would accommodate bike riding, tree climbing and Mummy Monster (if these things happened at all), as well as the discussion about FF going off for his meeting. But none of this is proven - anything could have happened during this time.
FGM time estimates are not reliable. She does not talk about seeing FF, only hearing him in the kitchen. She does not mention participating in the bike riding or seeing the bikes, or seeing FF's new car. This is part of other people's narratives. But if we believe her, FF was gone before breakfast and did not return until after William's disappearance. Whether the verandah play was 30 minutes, 60 minutes or 90 minutes we don't know, but according to FGM she did the dishes then went out onto the verandah, and did not participate in or witness any other activities. But she denies any knowledge of the phone calls around 9am, so maybe she forgot to mention these other activities, or maybe they never happened. She doesn't know who slept in which bed - this indicates she rose last of all - everyone else was out of bed by the time she got up. It's possible that lots of stuff happened without her knowledge. I think it's entirely possible FGM didn't get up and join the family until shortly before 9am when FF had already left - she just thought it was earlier because she usually wakes earlier.

 

[Awakening]

Weird article

Cops make grim discovery in Kendall, NSW

A 43-year-old man's body has been found outside a home in Kendall, on the NSW mid-north-coast near the Batar Creek Road site where William Tyrrell's remains are said to be buried.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If something happened before 8 as I suspect they wouldn't want to involve FGM as an accessory. Logical then to say she was up late and didn't even see FF before he left. Then she is effectively removed from the picture of what happened.. Problem is she may have been up earlier and witnessed everything. So trying to exclude her has created this massive time anomaly in her account which she tries to cover by saying he left before 8 to go to chemist which didn't open to 9 ...and btw FF asked what time it opened the night before. Lies. I think they went on verandah between 7 and 8. FF was there for the 7.39 picture and WT was looking at him.

"I usually get up at 7.30 but was late this morning" She is very old school. They insist upon being up as early as guests. Good manners. She was also woken by the kids.

I suspect that FF and FM didn't prepare FGM well and the lies showed through in her account by trying to protect her being an accessory.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Witness statement analysis is based upon psychological premise that when you choose words your mind traces though literally thousands to make the choice it does. When you lie it disrupts the process and evidence slips through in your choices that it is a lie by the choice of words

• we had 3 for breakfast, no 4 sorry
• I heard him but he had left before 8 ........to go somewhere he needed to be by 9 (added by me)
• bouncing out of his skull with happiness
• he really needed to get there early and fill a scrip and he had an important online meeting
• everyone was happy
• this is where IT all happened

There are so many examples of deception. A witness statement analyst would imo conclude

• deception on timeline
• deception on it being happy
• deception about how many at breakfast
• deception that something happened to WT on or off the verandah
• the something was related to his skull

I'm by no means proficient even regarding the discipline but even I can see there is something seriously wrong

 

[31550]

Weird article

Cops make grim discovery in Kendall, NSW

A 43-year-old man's body has been found outside a home in Kendall, on the NSW mid-north-coast near the Batar Creek Road site where William Tyrrell's remains are said to be buried.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Related or unrelated?

'Mick might know dodgy people': William Tyrrell inquest told of white sedan

In June last year, Tim Palmer had a crisis of conscience - to betray a mate or to hinder a suspected murder investigation?

www.smh.com.au

 

[Awakening]

Related or unrelated?

'Mick might know dodgy people': William Tyrrell inquest told of white sedan

In June last year, Tim Palmer had a crisis of conscience - to betray a mate or to hinder a suspected murder investigation?

www.smh.com.au

Not sure what Candace is hinting at?

• That police know where Williams remains are
• That the man who died was a witness in the Tyrell case
• Click bait on a death that otherwise wouldn’t get many clicks

 

[LRitz]

The day did start much earlier according to FM and FF. William woke FF shortly before 7am. They watched Fireman Sam videos in bed. The kids fought over a toy. William got dressed in his Spiderman suit. Then there is a gap in time before FF leaves. This would accommodate bike riding, tree climbing and Mummy Monster (if these things happened at all), as well as the discussion about FF going off for his meeting. But none of this is proven - anything could have happened during this time.
FGM time estimates are not reliable. She does not talk about seeing FF, only hearing him in the kitchen. She does not mention participating in the bike riding or seeing the bikes, or seeing FF's new car. This is part of other people's narratives. But if we believe her, FF was gone before breakfast and did not return until after William's disappearance. Whether the verandah play was 30 minutes, 60 minutes or 90 minutes we don't know, but according to FGM she did the dishes then went out onto the verandah, and did not participate in or witness any other activities. But she denies any knowledge of the phone calls around 9am, so maybe she forgot to mention these other activities, or maybe they never happened. She doesn't know who slept in which bed - this indicates she rose last of all - everyone else was out of bed by the time she got up. It's possible that lots of stuff happened without her knowledge. I think it's entirely possible FGM didn't get up and join the family until shortly before 9am when FF had already left - she just thought it was earlier because she usually wakes earlier.

“If these happened at all”…. Exactly. Playing throwing a dice for 20 minutes is unbelievable. There is lots of activities to fill in WT timeline when he may not have been there.

 

[stormbird]

From The Guardian, 25 November 2023:

"There’s a real human element here that needs to be taken into account, [police] have their own cognitive bias, and can be led down roads that don’t go anywhere.”
- Jarryd Bartle, associate lecturer at RMIT university, consultant at the Bridge of Hope Innocence Initiative, and former lawyer

Nine years, no answers in Australia’s most high-profile disappearance: the search for justice for William Tyrrell

The missing child has not been far from the headlines since he disappeared from a small Australian town in 2014. Nearly a decade on, he has still not been found

www.theguardian.com

 

[Angry Red Bull]

From The Guardian, 25 November 2023:

"There’s a real human element here that needs to be taken into account, [police] have their own cognitive bias, and can be led down roads that don’t go anywhere.”
- Jarryd Bartle, associate lecturer at RMIT university, consultant at the Bridge of Hope Innocence Initiative, and former lawyer

Nine years, no answers in Australia’s most high-profile disappearance: the search for justice for William Tyrrell

The missing child has not been far from the headlines since he disappeared from a small Australian town in 2014. Nearly a decade on, he has still not been found

www.theguardian.com

Nothing more true than that. Police have their own cognitive bias. GJs fixations on Spedding then Savage. Police new theory WE KNOW that it was an accident hidden fall from balcony. Yet the very recent post link I gave says that only 2% from that height cause mortal injury and falling on mulch/ soft soil so even less in this context. Then you have the added problem that it seemingly occurred with one parent making unilateral decision and not informing or involving the other and in 48 mins hardly enough to even know for certain a head injury was fatal than just unconscious.

Cognitive bias .....nah more likely stupidity.

 

[CodyRose]

Witness statement analysis is based upon psychological premise that when you choose words your mind traces though literally thousands to make the choice it does. When you lie it disrupts the process and evidence slips through in your choices that it is a lie by the choice of words

• we had 3 for breakfast, no 4 sorry
• I heard him but he had left before 8 ........to go somewhere he needed to be by 9 (added by me)
• bouncing out of his skull with happiness
• he really needed to get there early and fill a scrip and he had an important online meeting
• everyone was happy
• this is where IT all happened

There are so many examples of deception. A witness statement analyst would imo conclude

• deception on timeline
• deception on it being happy
• deception about how many at breakfast
• deception that something happened to WT on or off the verandah
• the something was related to his skull

I'm by no means proficient even regarding the discipline but even I can see there is something seriously wrong

The four for breakfast might refer to FM, FGM, WT, and sister, or the three might refer to FM FGM and sister, with FF and WT absent.

 

[CodyRose]

Nothing more true than that. Police have their own cognitive bias. GJs fixations on Spedding then Savage. Police new theory WE KNOW that it was an accident hidden fall from balcony. Yet the very recent post link I gave says that only 2% from that height cause mortal injury and falling on mulch/ soft soil so even less in this context. Then you have the added problem that it seemingly occurred with one parent making unilateral decision and not informing or involving the other and in 48 mins hardly enough to even know for certain a head injury was fatal than just unconscious.

Cognitive bias .....nah more likely stupidity.

If the police know where the child is , why not produce him or his body.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If the police know where the child is , why not produce him or his body.

Yes. That's why Lonergan said recently on oath that they don't know what happened to WT. So all this legal pressure they are building costing the Fosters massive legal bills is all based upon BS. Pretty disgraceful really