Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Underarrest_]

Does anyone think the cars seen by Peter the truck driver are significant. Black Camry, work Ute, dark coloured (maybe burgundy) car (with ladder on top)?
Or is it just about whether he’d seen FM’s car or not in his travels?

 

[Wallace52]

What do you think it is?

It’s the timeline, Kurve .

What time was he on or near Batar Creek Road?

IMO Peter is adding to the police case because he did not see the FM or her Mazda car, which means she took the drive later…. Closer to the time of 10:30-10:40am….

 

[gymjam]

There is a pattern of violence that that’s part of the reason why there is an Apprehended Violence Order to protect a female foster child against the two former foster parents of William Tyrrell, ****.

It goes for 5 years. AVO’s are put in place to protect people from violence.

I’ve heard the tapes played in court: Horrific. It’s the stuff of nightmares.

A couple of questions if I may:

Was it announced what the length of the AVO was - 5 years? That was an order put on by Magistrate Dene is that correct - in 2019? Can you recall the initial date it commenced on and what date it expires?

I cried just reading media reports, let alone sitting in Court hearing the whole recordings. Harrowing and how must it have been for the child to experience?

 

[Wallace52]

A couple of questions if I may:

Was it announced what the length of the AVO was - 5 years? That was an order put on by Magistrate Dene is that correct - in 2019? Can you recall the initial date it commenced on and what date it expires?

I cried just reading media reports, let alone sitting in Court hearing the whole recordings. Harrowing and how must it have been for the child to experience?

The AVO was recently renewed for another 5 years.

 

[shorsky]

As 31550 has said, the answer is very likely in the file. Remembering that the "file" includes footage from 169 (?) CCTV cameras.

There will be something there that someone saw that is relevant - it is a matter of working out who and what. The Claremont case had the blokes at the bus stop see the car with very specific wheel rims. It was very relevant but wasn't worked out until after he was identified in other ways. Perry K was in the file the whole time for Easey St.

The trouble is, if they can't pin it on the FM, resources will be dramatically reduced and it becomes much harder.

Also Brett Cowan ‘was in the file’ from early on re Daniel Morecombe.

 

[passball]

Does anyone know what Peter the truckie said when he rang the radio show?
Was it because he saw the lady that did the u turn and parked in front of his truck?
Did he see her at the op shop before of after that?

 

[Earls Smother]

It’s the timeline, Kurve .

What time was he on or near Batar Creek Road?

IMO Peter is adding to the police case because he did not see the FM or her Mazda car, which means she took the drive later…. Closer to the time of 10:30-10:40am….

This is the timeline of someone (from early 2020) who had attended inquest days and used CO's book.

I have no idea of the accuracy but it supports the 10:30ish drive.

06:30 ish : PS goes for his walk

06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up

07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses

07:30 : breakfast & dress etc

08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.

08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )

08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan

09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )


09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds

09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also

*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),

*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”

* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.

* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”

* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.

* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave

* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”

* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )

* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.

* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”

* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.

* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”

09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

10:00 -10:30ish :

FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )

Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.

Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.

WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .

He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing

10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing

10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist

10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school

10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising

10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go

10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars

10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.

10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )


10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars

10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.

10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.

11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job

11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.

Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.

11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive

11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives

11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search

12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )

12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )

"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )

12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons

13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )

13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )

14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile

16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital

 

[Wallace52]

Does anyone know what Peter the truckie said when he rang the radio show?
Was it because he saw the lady that did the u turn and parked in front of his truck?
Did he see her at the op shop before of after that?

Ray Hadley: Desperate search for missing boy

Superintendent Paul Fehon, gives an update on the search for three-year-old William Tyrell,…

www.2gb.com

The clip of Peter, talking to 2GB soon after William disappeared.

 

[gymjam]

Yes. As per an earlier post I made, where the FM was repeatedly asked at the crime commission what time she took the drive, and she repeatedly said she didn’t know or I can’t remember.

Couldn’t even give an approximate time. In attempt to get some idea she’s asked if the drive took place before or after FF returned and she answered I don’t know to that too.

I often contemplate what hypnosis may reveal.

 

[passball]

I don't know why anyone would lock their kids outside.
Normal would be in their room, even then not lock the door.
Time out in a spot for a couple of minutes even.
Or that they aren't allowed outside.
Why did she choose to lock them out?
It's weird, and they were little kids.
And the fact they had to tell her not to do it is worrying.

 

[Underarrest_]

This is the timeline of someone (from early 2020) who had attended inquest days and used CO's book.

I have no idea of the accuracy but it supports the 10:30ish drive.

06:30 ish : PS goes for his walk

06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up

07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses

07:30 : breakfast & dress etc

08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.

08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )

08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan

09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )


09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds

09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also

*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),

*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”

* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.

* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”

* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.

* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave

* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”

* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )

* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.

* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”

* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.

* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”

09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

10:00 -10:30ish :

FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )

Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.

Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.

WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .

He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing

10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing

10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist

10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school

10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising

10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go

10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars

10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.

10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )


10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars

10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.

10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.

11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job

11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.

Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.

11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive

11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives

11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search

12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )

12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )

"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )

12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons

13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )

13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )

14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile

16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital

Was GO at the community centre that day? I thought I read he didn’t attend that day.

 

[Underarrest_]

Was GO at the community centre that day? I thought I read he didn’t attend that day.

Bizarre connection between William Tyrrell handyman, paedophile

A handyman who worked on the home little boy William Tyrrell disappeared from claims a convicted paedophile who lived in his caravan spoke of smelling 'death' in bushland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think there was questions about this as GO couldn’t remember. Not sure if it was later confirmed.

 

[Earls Smother]

Was GO at the community centre that day? I thought I read he didn’t attend that day.

Don't know, this is not my info. Sorry.

A couple of things I would say. FM must have realised he was missing about 10:25. That gives 5 minutes to do the pre-drive stuff, then drive at 10:30ish to be back by 10:35 to just beat FF home. So she was not gone long, not much time to do what's alleged IMO.

One Crabbe must have heard the same car that they saw drive in to the Millers driveway. Given the half hour difference between the Crabbes hearing cars, you have to wonder if they are talking about the same event?

 

[Earls Smother]

Bizarre connection between William Tyrrell handyman, paedophile

A handyman who worked on the home little boy William Tyrrell disappeared from claims a convicted paedophile who lived in his caravan spoke of smelling 'death' in bushland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think there was questions about this as GO couldn’t remember. Not sure if it was later confirmed.

Do we know what car Owen drove?

 

[Underarrest_]

Do we know what car Owen drove?

I haven’t seen anything about his car but maybe (just guessing) some sort of ute/truck if he’s a tradie?
I hadn’t heard that BS delivered some washing machine parts later that same day. (of course we know BS is completely innocent.)

 

[passball]

Do we know what car Owen drove?

Does anyone know what cars FMs family members were driving at the time?
Do her siblings live in the area?

 

[Earls Smother]

I haven’t seen anything about his car but maybe (just guessing) some sort of ute/truck if he’s a tradie?
I hadn’t heard that BS delivered some washing machine parts later that same day. (of course we know BS is completely innocent.)

It says the other parts were delivered Thursday 11/11/2014, but that's wrong because 11/11 was a Tuesday.

I assume it meant Thursday 11/9, which is probably the van that Savage saw in FGM's driveway that day.

 

[Earls Smother]

Does anyone know what cars FMs family members were driving at the time?
Do her siblings live in the area?

Sorry I don't know.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

It’s the timeline, Kurve .

What time was he on or near Batar Creek Road?

IMO Peter is adding to the police case because he did not see the FM or her Mazda car, which means she took the drive later…. Closer to the time of 10:30-10:40am….

Perhaps. My opinion is that she wasn't seen because her destination was further afield. She didn't stop there..Straight past perhaps 10 min drive away

 

[Wallace52]

Perhaps. My opinion is that she wasn't seen because her destination was further afield. She didn't stop there..Straight past perhaps 10 min drive away

Ok, that’s also a really good hypothesis.

The testimony of Peter was not for nothing: It had a purpose.

 

[gymjam]

The AVO was recently renewed for another 5 years.

Oh goodness. Was the renewal application heard by Magistrate Dene do you know and the application requested the 5 year extension?

Thankyou.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Ok, that’s also a really good hypothesis.

The testimony of Peter was not for nothing: It had a purpose.

Yes. It's to show she didn't go where she said she did at the time she said. Ie prove another lie

 

[gymjam]

Perhaps. My opinion is that she wasn't seen because her destination was further afield. She didn't stop there..Straight past perhaps 10 min drive away

My thoughts too.

I consider her story that she had pulled over to give room to let the truck go by and he gave her a thankyou gesture to her also a s t r e t c h.

Over the years GE walks down Batar have shown me quite steep road edges that meet quite substantial open drainage channels and ground that had either long grass which would leave tyre tracks if driven on or flat muddy looking places on both sides of Batar which would also have evidence of tyre tracks. There would surely have been evidence on the Mazda.

There has also been early online chatter that when Rowley arrived he felt the bonnet of the Mazda and it was warm to touch. That detail was in a media writeup but long ago was scrubbed off the net.

 

[Wallace52]

Yes. It's to show she didn't go where she said she did at the time she said. Ie prove another lie

Yes, that’s absolutely right.

And we know she did go for a drive before the police arrived because she has said in her police interview that she went for a drive and also the arriving officer felt the bonnet was warm when he put his hand on it.

So there was a drive, but we don’t know:

*Where or
*When

Maybe she drove further out and disposed of William’s body in a clearing.

Or maybe she is innocent.

 

[Underarrest_]

Peter the truck driver drove down BCR then onto CCR.
In his travels, he said he saw two vehicles along BCR (a Ute and a dark maybe Burgungy/ maroon colour.)
Perhaps we haven’t heard that FM’s car was seen coming up behind him when driving along BCR, but hadn’t seen it on the intersection of BCR and CCR.
Do we know the exact locations of the searches or could some have been Kept out of the media.