Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[31550]

“Where did William go.”
Foster children are uncomfortable with police? Are you surmising that the investigator went in with her badge out and this is the only question the investigator had?
Maybe there was questions about the whole morning? Maybe the investigator let FD tell her story, as in to find out if they were riding bikes, did tthe four of them have breakfast did they go out and collect foliage what did they play who was where what happened. FD would have to have a very good menory if she was told what to say. Maybe the investigator used different methods to find out what happened. FD was very good at drawing and she is 4!
It’s just a thought I had and whatever FD said then and in any later interviews could help lead to the truth whatever that is. If you don’t want to believe FD because you think FM has told her the morning’s narrative that’s up to you.

It's not a matter of belief. I am not casting any aspersions on FD. None of this is her fault. I am simply explaining why she may not have opened up completely to anyone, ever. Badge or no badge. These kids are often quite broken and they will not give trust quickly or easily. Trauma is traumatizing.
She may or may not know what really happened. If she does know she may tell one day, but she might never tell anyone. We just have to accept that.

 

[Underarrest_]

It's not a matter of belief. I am not casting any aspersions on FD. None of this is her fault. I am simply explaining why she may not have opened up completely to anyone, ever. Badge or no badge. These kids are often quite broken and they will not give trust quickly or easily. Trauma is traumatizing.
She may or may not know what really happened. If she does know she may tell one day, but she might never tell anyone. We just have to accept that.

What I accept is that Children are very good at revealing the truth
and I’m sure the specialist investigator is skilled in this area.
FD said, William went looking for Daddy. That’s all we do know.
We don’t know what was said in these specialist interviews.
Maybe all FD knows is that William went looking for Daddy and nothing after that but my thought was did William run down the hill because he thought he did heard FF.
I’ll agree to disagree.

 

[Wallace52]

What I accept is that Children are very good at revealing the truth
and I’m sure the specialist investigator is skilled in this area.
FD said, William went looking for Daddy. That’s all we do know.
We don’t know what was said in these specialist interviews.
Maybe all FD knows is that William went looking for Daddy and nothing after that but my thought was did William run down the hill because he thought he did heard FF.
I’ll agree to disagree.

Anything to do with William’s sister and what she saw would be dealt with in Closed Court at the inquest; if at all.

We wouldn’t be privy to it, and neither would the media.

 

[31550]

What I accept is that Children are very good at revealing the truth
and I’m sure the specialist investigator is skilled in this area.
FD said, William went looking for Daddy. That’s all we do know.
We don’t know what was said in these specialist interviews.
Maybe all FD knows is that William went looking for Daddy and nothing after that but my thought was did William run down the hill because he thought he did heard FF.
I’ll agree to disagree.

I agree with you that we don't know anything. We don't know everything FD said or was asked.
We don't know that William ran anywhere. What makes you think he "ran downhill" at all? Too easy to get drawn into other people's narratives.
"Looking for Daddy's car" is reportedly what FD said. That's all we know, but even that is second or third hand evidence.

 

[Wallace52]

I agree with you that we don't know anything. We don't know everything FD said or was asked.
We don't know that William ran anywhere. What makes you think he "ran downhill" at all? Too easy to get drawn into other people's narratives.
"Looking for Daddy's car" is reportedly what FD said. That's all we know, but even that is second or third hand evidence.

If the coroner would be viewing anything to do with the FD it would be first hand evidence.

The FD also had a walkthrough interview.

IMO

But as I said, if this occurred it would be in closed court and no one would know.

 

[Underarrest_]

I agree with you that we don't know anything. We don't know everything FD said or was asked.
We don't know that William ran anywhere. What makes you think he "ran downhill" at all? Too easy to get drawn into other people's narratives.
"Looking for Daddy's car" is reportedly what FD said. That's all we know, but even that is second or third hand evidence.

I don’t know that William went downhill. It was a thought that maybe if he was looking for Daddy he might have.
“Looking for Daddy” came straight from an investigator’s mouth about what was said in FD’s interview. As much as that investigator has tripped up/over things, I don’t think he was lying in his interview to the media.
I’m not asking you to be drawn into a narrative.
I commented on a thought as I’m personally trying to keep an open mind until we know why police think William fell off the balcony and was dumped in the bush like a piece of trash by FM.

 

[Wallace52]

“the problem is that a lack of evidence doesn't prove that William's body wasn't there, which is where these wild animals come in. If the wild animals could have taken William's body, then it might still be that the police theory is possible. That this kind of hypothetical situation where William falls off the balcony, his foster mother discovers him, doesn't call for help, and decides to dispose of his body, is still possible because possibly a wild animal took his corpse, and that's why there's no forensic evidence despite years and years of searching.”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Evidence | 5, 8 Nov 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

Well it’s either wild animals, or he was placed somewhere else or he was hidden and moved.

Or it may be the police allegations are incorrect.

IMO

 

[passball]

I’m not surprised. The podcast is June’s opinions. I believe he was duped and can’t bear to accept it.

I thought Jubelin was a positive step when he was put on this case but I think it ended up being a huge negative.
He did the wrong thing, he assumed. He assumed the FPS couldn't be responsible for William missing. He got too close to the FPS, too close to keep them as POIs.
There were red flags with the FPs, still are after 10 years, but it seems he doesn't think those flags are important enough for Williams disappearance. I think they are.

There were problems with William's behaviour, the FPs said so.
There were prior and recent accidents with William, the FPs said so.
There were discipline problems with the FPS.

And then the tapes were introduced.

After hearing what was in those tapes does Jubelin think the FPs abuse is within normal parenting? Is he fine with the abuse heard?
Is Jubelin not rethinking that maybe he did have tunnel vision while wearing rose coloured glasses? Apparently not.
Is he at all shocked by what he heard on the tapes, enough to step back from his support?
Is there a personal reason stopping him from thinking the untouchable FPs are guilty?

I'm confused why any supporter of the FPs are accepting of the FPS abuse and behaviour.

Too many people sleeping in the same bed IMO.

It's a shame because I really did have confidence in his ability when he took over.

 

[Underarrest_]

I thought Jubelin was a positive step when he was put on this case but I think it ended up being a huge negative.
He did the wrong thing, he assumed. He assumed the FPS couldn't be responsible for William missing. He got too close to the FPS, too close to keep them as POIs.
There were red flags with the FPs, still are after 10 years, but it seems he doesn't think those flags are important enough for Williams disappearance. I think they are.

There were problems with William's behaviour, the FPs said so.
There were prior and recent accidents with William, the FPs said so.
There were discipline problems with the FPS.

And then the tapes were introduced.

After hearing what was in those tapes does Jubelin think the FPs abuse is within normal parenting? Is he fine with the abuse heard?
Is Jubelin not rethinking that maybe he did have tunnel vision while wearing rose coloured glasses? Apparently not.
Is he at all shocked by what he heard on the tapes, enough to step back from his support?
Is there a personal reason stopping him from thinking the untouchable FPs are guilty?

I'm confused why any supporter of the FPs are accepting of the FPS abuse and behaviour.

Too many people sleeping in the same bed IMO.

It's a shame because I really did have confidence in his ability when he took over.

I can only speak for myself but I’m not a FP supporter. I want the truth and don’t accept/condone any abuse of the FD or anyone else by the FP’s.
Although the abuse might be a red flag it doesn’t mean FM is guilty of dumping William in the bush. Thousands of children are removed from their homes from both parents and even foster parents for abuse each year. It doesn’t mean they would cover a death up (we know some have.) Maybe FM is guilty. I don’t know.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If the coroner would be viewing anything to do with the FD it would be first hand evidence.

The FD also had a walkthrough interview.

IMO

But as I said, if this occurred it would be in closed court and no one would know.

m

Sydney morning herald 6 sept 2015. Paywalled but first sentence revealed!!!!

"Can you see daddy's car? And there was no answer" said the mother..

So if W was going to look for daddy's car per FD AND the FM went around corner to ask W whether he had seen daddy's car then I ask why would W be filled with that idea in a time presumably FF wasn't there and the text hadn't yet been made at 10.30?

Huh????

There is no compunction for a child that young to lie..so her comments can be relied on to an extent as having an element of truth. Why would she think W had gone to look for daddy's car?

Is it true that FM went around the corner calling out to W..... " Can you see daddy's car?" Is that SMH article true? W then didn't answer.

Is she trying to intimate that that had started the daddy game where he hides and surprises daddy when he returns?

Why would she do that before the text?

 

[Wallace52]

And then the tapes were introduced.

After hearing what was in those tapes does Jubelin think the FPs abuse is within normal parenting? Is he fine with the abuse heard?
Is Jubelin not rethinking that maybe he did have tunnel vision while wearing rose coloured glasses? Apparently not.
Is he at all shocked by what he heard on the tapes, enough to step back from his support?
Is there a personal reason stopping him from thinking the untouchable FPs are guilty?

I'm confused why any supporter of the FPs are accepting of the FPS abuse and behaviour.

Too many people sleeping in the same bed IMO.

I think the party line that Jubes and his friends are using to sort of get around the foster parents stalking / intimidation and also assault of a girl in their care is:

It’s just bad parenting. That’s not a crime.

And they are minimising what the foster parents have done, even though they’ve been found guilty and Jubes and his crew have listened to those tapes.

And they still support the FM and FF.

It says a lot about them. IMO

I recall Ban Dox mentioning that he might have thrown things across the room in anger as a parent and shouted at his 3 year old, to sort of normalise that every parent has moments of bad parenting but it’s not a crime.

Will find the link later….. it’s in episode 3 of Witness I think.

Edit to update the link from Witness….

Dan: “So you're a parent, I'm a parent. I've got a three-year-old, a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old, and I get tired. And at times, I might have thrown things just to deal with...

“I mean, there's frustration. There's been times when the three-year-old and I are both shouting at each other. But the difference is my life isn't documented.”

Nina: “It's not documented. Yeah.”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Foster Parents | 3, 21 Oct 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Underarrest_]

I think the party line that Jubes and his friends are using to sort of get around the foster parents stalking / intimidation and also assault of a girl in their care is:

It’s just bad parenting. That’s not a crime.

And they are minimising what the foster parents have done, even though they’ve been found guilty and Jubes and his crew have listened to those tapes.

And they still support the FM and FF.

It says a lot about them. IMO

I recall Ban Dox mentioning that he might have thrown things across the room in anger as a parent and shouted at his 3 year old, to sort of normalise that every parent has moments of bad parenting but it’s not a crime.

Will find the link later….. it’s in episode 3 of Witness I think.

You’re right, the abuse of FD/others should never be minimised.

 

[31550]

m

Is it true that FM went around the corner calling out to W..... " Can you see daddy's car?" Is that SMH article true? W then didn't answer.

Is she trying to intimate that that had started the daddy game where he hides and surprises daddy when he returns?

Why would she do that before the text?

How can anyone say if it's true? Any of it.
Nobody else was there.

 

[InTheBleachers]

What I accept is that Children are very good at revealing the truth
and I’m sure the specialist investigator is skilled in this area.
FD said, William went looking for Daddy. That’s all we do know.
We don’t know what was said in these specialist interviews.
Maybe all FD knows is that William went looking for Daddy and nothing after that but my thought was did William run down the hill because he thought he did heard FF.
I’ll agree to disagree.

I expect that if there was anything incriminating in the FD's statement it would have been leaked by now.

All that we do know is that she said WT went to find daddy's car.
WT went to look and never came back. It could be that they were told that FF would be home very soon because they were going to go and visit FGF's grave when he returned. It was their usual thing to go and greet FF when he got home.

The initial investigators said the FD didn't know anything. Nothing that could help further anyway.

 

[Lady O]

Could we please go back to a discussion earlier in the thread?

We know that FM said she went to the Riding School. This is a right turn off Benaroon Drive onto Batar Ck Rd. However, she said she turned left. She would know left from right I'm thinking, but she could have mistakenly said left because she was mistaken, or because she actually did turn left. So, she may have gone to the Riding School, but by a circular route.

 

[31550]

Could we please go back to a discussion earlier in the thread?

We know that FM said she went to the Riding School. This is a right turn off Benaroon Drive onto Batar Ck Rd. However, she said she turned left. She would know left from right I'm thinking, but she could have mistakenly said left because she was mistaken, or because she actually did turn left. So, she may have gone to the Riding School, but by a circular route.

The coroner (or was it Craddock) picked her up on the left/right discrepancy. Her response was that she wasn't 'good with directions,' to which the interlocutor responded " I am simply asking which way you turned". In any case the inquest moved on from that I respectfully request that we also move on. It's not going to get us anywhere.

I don't remember. I don't know why I said that.

 

[Wallace52]

The coroner (or was it Craddock) picked her up on the left/right discrepancy. Her response was that she wasn't 'good with directions,' to which the interlocutor responded " I am simply asking which way you turned". In any case the inquest moved on from that I respectfully request that we also move on. It's not going to get us anywhere.

I don't remember. I don't know why I said that.

I don’t know if she’s cognitively impaired or she’s had PTSD for 10 years, but either way she can’t seem to answer a simple straight question and that’s been evident from the 000 call where she could not (or refused) to answer some very simple questions, to the walkthrough on 12/9/14+5, all of her statements, and every interview she’s ever given to the media.


It’s hard to know if anything she’s ever said to police or to her friends or to the media has been true or accurate and imo she is a wholly unreliable witness.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Cadaver scent is detectable to humans after 24 - 48 hrs and intensifies hitting peak intensity day 4 to 10. The location was checked by cadaver dogs the following day. I simply do not accept that feral animals is a reasonable explanation. Not when people and dogs were searching.

Pigs can eat a human. But on what i read there is usually something left. Then you have the suit. Did they carry that away too?

The suggestion doesn't work

 

[passball]

m

Is it true that FM went around the corner calling out to W..... " Can you see daddy's car?" Is that SMH article true? W then didn't answer.

Is she trying to intimate that that had started the daddy game where he hides and surprises daddy when he returns?

Why would she do that before the text?

Ever heard of

m

Is it true that FM went around the corner calling out to W..... " Can you see daddy's car?" Is that SMH article true? W then didn't answer.

Is she trying to intimate that that had started the daddy game where he hides and surprises daddy when he returns?

Why would she do that before the text?

Ever heard of 'go play in the street'.
Maybe FM had enough

 

[Lady O]

The coroner (or was it Craddock) picked her up on the left/right discrepancy. Her response was that she wasn't 'good with directions,' to which the interlocutor responded " I am simply asking which way you turned". In any case the inquest moved on from that I respectfully request that we also move on. It's not going to get us anywhere.

I don't remember. I don't know why I said that.

I did agree with you when we discussed it earlier. But a comment someone made that 'when a person is being untruthful they sometimes have trouble remembering details', made me reconsider. I thought of why she would say left and not right, doesn't make sense. It wasn't like it was a north/south question, which could be confusing, but a right/left, which should be instinctive.

Unless, she actually did turn left.

 

[31550]

I did agree with you when we discussed it earlier. But a comment someone made that 'when a person is being untruthful they sometimes have trouble remembering details', made me reconsider. I thought of why she would say left and not right, doesn't make sense. It wasn't like it was a north/south question, which cold be confusing, but a right/left, which should be instinctive.

Unless, she actually did turn left.

Yeah it's totally frustrating. But you can't get anywhere with people like that.

It's either a mental deficiency or evil genius. Maybe both.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I did agree with you when we discussed it earlier. But a comment someone made that 'when a person is being untruthful they sometimes have trouble remembering details', made me reconsider. I thought of why she would say left and not right, doesn't make sense. It wasn't like it was a north/south question, which could be confusing, but a right/left, which should be instinctive.

Unless, she actually did turn left.

Truth causes leakages that interrupt a lie. It's possible she did go left but the lie was the riding school part..

 

[Lady O]

Yeah it's totally frustrating. But you can't get anywhere with people like that.

It's either a mental deficiency or evil genius. Maybe both.

From Benaroon Dr, if you turn left, there is a track that leads to the Kendall Cemetery access rd (off Albert St). From there you can go via the Kendall Forest Rd back to Batar Ck Rd, (past Cobb & Co rd) back to Benaroon Dr. Less than 10km trip.

 

[Lady O]

Truth causes leakages that interrupt a lie. It's possible she did go left but the lie was the riding school part..

You pass cobb & co rd on the way back.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

You pass cobb & co rd on the way back.

Why do a loop and not simply go BCR?
What benefit does she get going that route I wonder.....

Was she trying to hide the outward bound route on BCR intersection? Why?