Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Angry Red Bull]

When did they start using cadaver dogs on this case as opposed to search dogs?
And do you know the search area? Pretty narrow and close to the FGM property I assume. Why search 3 or 4km away - a 3YO boy couldn't get that far on foot.

I paid attention that the Cobb & co search area had a cadaver dog pass it next day.

I immediately knew he was never there.

 

[Wallace52]

How did what turn out. You claimed he never considered them suspects. Why bug them then.

He had to do his due diligence before the $1Mil reward was announced?

 

[31550]

I paid attention that the Cobb & co search area had a cadaver dog pass it next day.

I immediately knew he was never there.

Yes because someone from the public reported a smell from that area. It was later found to be a dead cow. I was wondering if dogs went anywhere else that far away or further from the FGM house. I would be surprised if they did. For instance did they ever take dogs into the forest or along the route posted above?

 

[31550]

She had each bedroom each foster parent slept in with the same child swapped around.

IE FF and William in the room next to the carport and mother and other child in bedroom near loungeroom. She just got the number of each bedroom on the house plan wrong.

That had nothing to do with Wendy Hudson.
The FMs statement which she signed has notations about the two bedrooms the wrong way round.

 

[pinkjellybean]

You seem a little unfamiliar with some of the basic facts of this case. I refer to the FGM walkthrough video. The FGM states she never saw the cars that the FM said she saw. The FGM never mentions bike riding. These are both parts of the FM narrative only, not the FGMs.

Thanks for clarifying. I have seen the FGM video and was aware she had mentioned neither during that.

 

[Kora]

How did what turn out. You claimed he never considered them suspects. Why bug them then.

He was forced by colleagues.

 

[Awakening]

Could a 6 kg fox carry a 16 kg child away entirely? Ill look

They do it in packs. They can remove an adult and drag the pieces back to their den.

 

[Awakening]

When did they start using cadaver dogs on this case as opposed to search dogs?
And do you know the search area? Pretty narrow and close to the FGM property I assume. Why search 3 or 4km away - a 3YO boy couldn't get that far on foot.

It certainly wouldn't be typical for the search area to be that large, for a small boy presumed lost in that topography. Certainly not in the first few days.

 

[Awakening]

Some thoughts about the three strange cars FM claimed to have seen on the morning of William's disappearance....

Is there any record of FGM saying she either knew of their existence (i.e. via FM) or had seen them herself? The first two cars were enough to raise FM's suspicions and I would have thought may have warranted a comment or question to FGM over breakfast, especially as the cars were still there during the "Mummy Monster" and tree climbing activities.

Then, FGM was out with FM, FD and WT during the bike riding on the driveway when the third car drove past. Again, you would expect there to be a comment made, especially when FD asked about the car. FGM with all her local knowledge may well have been able to identify the cars or the "weathered man" driving the third one.

Yet, we have those claiming that all 1000 people in Kendal know not only every local cars, but anyone visiting a local cars.

 

[Lady O]

They do it in packs. They can remove an adult and drag the pieces back to their den.

Foxes in packs?? A pair and their cubs might be together before the young'uns are old enough to hunt, but basically foxes live separately. You are getting them confused with wolves.

 

[passball]

If GJ was a TV show he jumped the shark several times over this case.

How did what turn out. You claimed he never considered them suspects. Why bug them then.

He would have to consider the FPS at some stage otherwise you couldn't cross them off the list.
But he crossed them off too soon and was then obsessed with the pedos.
Those tapes show they had an evil side. He said it was like evil meets innocence, or similar to that. I don't think he saw evil in the FPS, it was there which makes me wonder why he supports them.
The tapes confirmed that you don't know what happens behind closed doors.
Locking kids outside, wooden spoons, kicking, demeaning, abusing, blaming, that's what's in the tapes and that is fact.
I don't want to bring Jubelin down but he has to have some doubt, even a tiny bit, after the tapes came out.

 

[Awakening]

Foxes in packs?? A pair and their cubs might be together before the young'uns are old enough to hunt, but basically foxes live separately. You are getting them confused with wolves.

Ok, pairs then. But you can have multiple pairs from different dens in the area. Dens are often full of bones.

 

[InTheBleachers]

And do you know the search area? Pretty narrow and close to the FGM property I assume. Why search 3 or 4km away - a 3YO boy couldn't get that far on foot.

Initially the search was 1.5 km around the house.
By Day 4 the search area was expanded to 3 km around the house, then 10 sq km, then by Day 6 it was 20 sq km.

William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy

Authorities say investigators are ‘keeping an open mind’ about whether William was taken

www.theguardian.com

Someone knows something about missing boy: police

Police searching for a three-year-old boy who went missing from his grandmother's home on the New South Wales mid-north coast last week say they believe "someone knows something" about his disappearance.

www.abc.net.au

 

[31550]

It certainly wouldn't be typical for the search area to be that large, for a small boy presumed lost in that topography. Certainly not in the first few days.

How far could he get on foot in a few hours? IMO he's going to be travelling at 2kmh at best but much slower in bush, and would be very tired after under an hour at which time he'd give up. So he could never have gotten 2km away from the house.
Even that is a 12 square km search zone - too big to be covered by a handful of dogs.
If you extend it to a 5km radius and assume he was taken in a short car trip and dumped, then we are talking about 78 square kilometres - just impossible to search thoroughly.

 

[31550]

Initially the search was 1.5 km around the house.
By Day 4 the search area was expanded to 3 km around the house, then 10 sq km, then by Day 6 it was 20 sq km.

William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy

Authorities say investigators are ‘keeping an open mind’ about whether William was taken

www.theguardian.com

Someone knows something about missing boy: police

Police searching for a three-year-old boy who went missing from his grandmother's home on the New South Wales mid-north coast last week say they believe "someone knows something" about his disappearance.

www.abc.net.au

Note the difference between distance and area in your measurements. Doubling the distance (radius) quadruples the search area and the resources required.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Note the difference between distance and area in your measurements. Doubling the distance (radius) quadruples the search area and the resources required.

They are measurements as reported in the links.

 

[Awakening]

How far could he get on foot in a few hours? IMO he's going to be travelling at 2kmh at best but much slower in bush, and would be very tired after under an hour at which time he'd give up. So he could never have gotten 2km away from the house.
Even that is a 12 square km search zone - too big to be covered by a handful of dogs.
If you extend it to a 5km radius and assume he was taken in a short car trip and dumped, then we are talking about 78 square kilometres - just impossible to search thoroughly.

Without seeing the terrain, but hearing about it, I wouldn’t think that far at all. Especially a 3 year old with asthma, from the inner suburbs, not the bush.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

They do it in packs. They can remove an adult and drag the pieces back to their den.

Foxes in packs?? A pair and their cubs might be together before the young'uns are old enough to hunt, but basically foxes live separately. You are getting them confused with wolves.

Ok, pairs then. But you can have multiple pairs from different dens in the area. Dens are often full of bones.

Don't ask me the collective noun. I'm still a little dazed dealing with the fact a bush can be slutty .....all the animals just roam and frolic at will......in it, I assume. And the bush willingly, some say eagerly allows them. Ok

Never again will I use the designation of 'virgin bush' without serious hesitation and contemplation......and a nostalgic grin remembering this moment.

Collective noun for foxes is skulk. Somehow that just sounds right in this conversation

A skulk of foxes were roaming and frolicking in the slutty bush. Yes

 

[passball]

I'm going back to the start.
Why did they leave earlier than planned?
Why did they not inform the FGM until they were on their way? Or ask if that was ok?
Did they have to notify anyone about the kids to let them know their plans changed?
Or were they in some sort of rush to get out of Sydney or be in Kendall earlier?

 

[js47]

"Where did William Go?" - "He went to look for Daddy's car!"
"How do you know that?" - "Um, I don't know".

The "I don't know" response from children is very common and doesn't always mean they don't know. It's often a way of avoiding answering questions they don't want to answer. Gives them an easy way out.

The thing with foster kids also is that they may not feel comfortable around police. In most cases it's a uniformed police officer who escorted them away from their real parents and siblings, and placed them into a care situation. It's authorities like magistrates who make judgements keeping them away from their bio families. Many of them come from a difficult domestic background where their families may not have had a good relationship with police and authorities in general. So it's unlikely that they are going to instantly open up and be completely open and honest with an interviewer. Even if the interviewer is showing them kindness, and they are coming from a bad situation, these kids don't give their trust easily to anyone. The "I don't know" answer is often just an automatic response to questions from strangers or authority figures.

Didn’t one of the police take the family tovDiamond Head to talk to William’s sister while they investigated the owner of 48 B Drive?

 

[Underarrest_]

I'm going back to the start.
Why did they leave earlier than planned?
Why did they not inform the FGM until they were on their way? Or ask if that was ok?
Did they have to notify anyone about the kids to let them know their plans changed?
Or were they in some sort of rush to get out of Sydney or be in Kendall earlier?

Yes good questions. I’ve asked this myself.
If FFamily had left Friday morning the situation might be different.
Coincidence or not?

 

[js47]

What time was Peter on BCR? Seems a very simple basic question. Surely he passed the Tennis Club CCTV?
Surely between himself and Michelle they would have some idea of time? Was his phone on and pinging? Did he call anyone? Purchase anything? SFR have had years to check this out. What was the time????

Hang on why can’t Michelle tell them? Is every one suffering PTS?

 

[pinkjellybean]

I'm going back to the start.
Why did they leave earlier than planned?
Why did they not inform the FGM until they were on their way? Or ask if that was ok?
Did they have to notify anyone about the kids to let them know their plans changed?
Or were they in some sort of rush to get out of Sydney or be in Kendall earlier?

Agree. It does seem rushed, and for no real reason. Especially since the FF already had a call booked for reasonably early the next morning. With the dodgy internet coverage at FGMs house, why not leave Syd after that call on the Friday a.m. when the peak hour traffic had ended? No need to worry about booking the cats anywhere either. If I also recall correctly, the FGM was/had been unwell and probably wouldn't have welcomed the early arrival and only being informed when the FPs were already on route.

 

[passball]

Yes good questions. I’ve asked this myself.
If FFamily had left Friday morning the situation might be different.
Coincidence or not?

I think it would have been different.
For one, FF would not have left to go do a work call the next day (Saturday).
The FM wouldn't have had to look after the kids by herself with her mum watching/judging.

 

[31550]

Hang on why can’t Michelle tell them? Is every one suffering PTS?

Deputy coroner has an aversion to asking questions of witnesses. Would rather make everyone sit for hours watching videos of other people asking questions and then telling everyone what there is no evidence of.