Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[31550]

Gosh, everyone was saying there wasn't enough time to do what was necessary. I give you a theory where there is two extra hours and you now believe there is plenty of time......

Because your theory (with an extra 2 hours) involves a highly improbable and risky pre-conceived conspiracy involving 3 adults and a child, who have all provided witness statements to the contrary, none of which have been substantially disproven by direct evidence.
On the other hand, I am suggesting that there is no need to create an extra 2 hours - there is already 50 minutes which has not been adequately accounted for, and does not require an intricate conspiracy - it is all down to the inadequacies of the testimony of one person - the FM, who has not accounted for her movements during this 50 minutes satisfactorily.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Because your theory (with an extra 2 hours) involves a highly improbable and risky pre-conceived conspiracy involving 3 adults and a child, who have all provided witness statements to the contrary, none of which have been substantially disproven by direct evidence.
On the other hand, I am suggesting that there is no need to create an extra 2 hours - there is already 50 minutes which has not been adequately accounted for, and does not require an intricate conspiracy - it is all down to the inadequacies of the testimony of one person - the FM, who has not accounted for her movements during this 50 minutes satisfactorily.

The theory at outset wasn't improbable imo..given a window of 40 minutes it was likely preferred because of what needs to happen and the time. We now know the window to be 1 hr and the distinct possibility of delayed death from accident (I say FF car). Both those factors change the mix dramatically. A car hit not reported (negligence) also increases likelihood of propensity to hide

Edits had they occurred aren't intricate or involve conspiracy in traditional sense..they are no different to all the evasive manipulative behaviours demonstrated by FM. They are less likely now because of the time and logistics changes

 

[js47]

I think Ron Chapman thought it was a bit odd too. That is generally why people notice things - they stand out as not being normal.

From his account, William had both hands on the rear passenger window. Probably kneeling on the seat but impossible to know exactly. The momentum of the right hand turn would have meant William was pushed very close to the window IMO. Ron muttered under his breath "stupid bitch" because of the speed and the boy seemingly without a seatbelt.

Ron admitted that the second car had tinted windows, making it harder to see the interior. He also said he didn't recognise either car as being local and has never seen them again since.

Have you read what Ron thought of the FGM?

 

[LRitz]

Don't new cars have an inbuilt GPS? Or his phone would have pinged at another phone tower? Surely the cops would have checked out his movements that morning.

I don't know. but we have been told (allegedly) that phone reception is poor at Benaroon, and FF knew this and this is why he (allegedly) has to go to Lakewood for work call. and my guess it would be worse phone reception in the forest. So then not picked up until he is on his way back towards Lake wood. I don't know. And I don't know if there were reports of anyone in the street seeing the FF, the FF's car leave,or FF's car in drive way, but i don't recall any.

 

[Underarrest_]

That is correct, and THAT is the most important piece of the timeline which needs to be established.
What exactly happened between the 9:37 photo and FF return at 10:35?
The most important piece of evidence is the FM statement made to Vanessa Partridge on 14 Sep. Only two days after the event, and enough time for everyone to be over the initial panic and confusion about time.
Here is what she swore to:
View attachment 2154086

Just three consecutive paragraphs describe 90 MINUTES of activity.
William jumped off the deck, she went looking for him in the garden, got the FF text, met him in the carport, went down to see AMS, looked in the street, and then dialled 000.

No mention of a drive in the FGM car. No strange cars in the street. No truck driver. No screams in the bush. Nothing suspicious at all. He's there one minute and gone the next.

EXCEPT THAT there is about 50 minutes of unexplained activity if the photo was taken at 9:37 and William jumped off the verandah soon after, and the text from FF was at 10:30.

IMO the coroner must establish what happened during those 50 minutes, and why there is such a large time gap in FM's original police statement.

Thanks for this.
Are you aware if FM mentioned taking the photos in other parts of her statement?
Just trying to work out if there has been some play between when the photos were allegedly taken at 9.37 and before William jumped off the patio.

 

[stormbird]

I think Ron Chapman thought it was a bit odd too. That is generally why people notice things - they stand out as not being normal.

From his account, William had both hands on the rear passenger window. Probably kneeling on the seat but impossible to know exactly. The momentum of the right hand turn would have meant William was pushed very close to the window IMO. Ron muttered under his breath "stupid bitch" because of the speed and the boy seemingly without a seatbelt.

Ron admitted that the second car had tinted windows, making it harder to see the interior. He also said he didn't recognise either car as being local and has never seen them again since.

What stands out for me in the Chapman walk-through is when a blue sedan drives down Laurel Street behind Ron while he's talking, he pauses when looking towards where that car has gone (the intersection with Batar Creek Road), as if he's thinking "Is that the second car?!" He doesn't say that, and doesn't explain why he pauses, he just looks towards the intersection for a few seconds... then resumes talking. He might have paused for any other reason too, obviously, but if he did stop to look at that blue car to consider what he was seeing, IMO he seems like a good observant witness. From about 7:40 minutes in the video "William Tyrrell inquest walkthrough with neighbour who saw two cars on day of disappearance", which is midway through the article in News.com.au, 31 Aug 2019:

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/7fb2360c3f8f78958bc884ad7f179d63

Even if Ron's account is believable, the child in the first vehicle might not have been William though, and if Ron saw them at 10:45 am that's probably a long time after William was last seen at FGM's:

"Det Beacroft told the court she believes William disappeared between 10.05am and 10.15am."

- from a tweet by @LiaJHarris at an inquest hearing, 20 Aug 2019

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Agree. and this does not correspond to what the FGM said in her "which way would I have gone" walk through.

Ok JUST for argument purpose - looking at the abduction hoax angle and trying to think it through and for a moment lets remove the halo from the FF) why have 50 minutes? Say (somehow) the photo is taken earlier than 9:30 when FF is at the house. FF then leaves with William and drives into state Forest. Next door neighbours away (seems that was well known) and neighbours across the road have left for the regular morning exercise. So FF is not seen. He is seen at tennis club before 9:00. At 9:35 FF is on conference call and the roar photo is allegedly taken so rock solid alibi for FF. Then what time do you raise the alarm? 5 to 10 minutes after the photo would be a real coincidence. And it had to be a bit before FF returns because otherwise the sneaky person abducting William may have been seen by FF driving up Benaroon drive. So sometime between 10:00 and 10:15 would fit in. The trigger for the start of the search could have been the FF arriving back, and then say William was missing around 10 minutes before this, enough time for FM to have done her first check of the front yard the other side of the house and back into the house, before the now deleted text arrived. As I understand FM was not seen or heard doing her first check calling for William. Maybe she was still inside having that cup of tea.

Interesting to read FM statement again, something always pops out. FM says she "walks" to the road and back into the house - so sounds like she was just looking to see where he had gone and no panic at this point. Does this fit in with later versions in podcasts? Any ideas?

This all depends on the photo being taken at an earlier time.

I have always been of the view that the emotional trauma of a sons death takes way longer than 40 min to overcome then quietly methodically dispose of body. For a start you have to know he is dead and try to resuscitate him.. it's easier to contemplate now it's 1 hr but I still have misgivings. Remember they were under NO time pressure only that which they themselves created

 

[js47]

But IMO it doesn't. There is plenty of time between 9:37 and 10:30 unaccounted for, during which William could have been driven far enough away from the property and hidden from searchers.

Amen!

 

[LRitz]

I believe the time was truncated by FF's return home. The actual time is from around 9:40 to 10:57, so a little shorter than 'average'. But an average is just an average - some times will be shorter, some times will be longer. I think if FF had not returned home until much later, then the 000 call would probably have also been made later. Remember that FF's return home was BEFORE FM left the property to 'search for William'. She may have left the property before 10:30 but according to her own sworn statement on 14 Sep 2014, she did not. She got the 'home in 5' text while she was still looking for William in the FGM yard, and had not yet engaged with AMS.

I'm still going with NO FGM's car trip by anyone. I think they could have shuffled the cars in the drive way and needed to give a reason so added the car trip, and the mystery truck.

 

[31550]

Thanks for this.
Are you aware if FM mentioned taking the photos in other parts of her statement?
Just trying to work out if there has been some play between when the photos were allegedly taken at 9.37 and before William jumped off the patio.

Yes.

17. We decided to go draw some pictures for Opa. i set the kids up on the patio at the side of the house. The kids got some leaves and other thing s of the ground for the pictures. They sat down and did some drawings. I took a few pictures on my digital camera of the kids sitting there drawing. William and [L] did this for about 15 minutes. Mum and I were sitting there watching and chatting with the kids as they did this.
18. [L] William and I went back inside. I asked [L] what she wanted to write on OPa's drawing. William told me he didn't want to write anything. William went back out to Mum on the patio. I wrote om [L] drawing what she wanted. I put both these pictures on the kitchen bench.

Statement then goes on to describe the dice game which went on for "5 -10 minutes". Then William got bored and jumped off the patio, roared, and said "Daddy Tiger". So, about 10 minutes between the photos and the roaring and William disappearing, according to FM statement. If 9:37 is the time of the photos, this would put his 'disappearance' at around 9:50am.

 

[LRitz]

What stands out for me in the Chapman walk-through is when a blue sedan drives down Laurel Street behind Ron while he's talking, he pauses when looking towards where that car has gone (the intersection with Batar Creek Road), as if he's thinking "Is that the second car?!" He doesn't say that, and doesn't explain why he pauses, he just looks towards the intersection for a few seconds... then resumes talking. He might have paused for any other reason too, obviously, but if he did stop to look at that blue car to consider what he was seeing, IMO he seems like a good observant witness. From about 7:40 minutes in the video "William Tyrrell inquest walkthrough with neighbour who saw two cars on day of disappearance", which is midway through the article in News.com.au, 31 Aug 2019:

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/7fb2360c3f8f78958bc884ad7f179d63

Even if Ron's account is believable, the child in the first vehicle might not have been William though, and if Ron saw them at 10:45 am that's probably a long time after William was last seen at FGM's:

"Det Beacroft told the court she believes William disappeared between 10.05am and 10.15am."

- from a tweet by @LiaJHarris at an inquest hearing, 20 Aug 2019

All these cars with tinted windows in Kendall! Had Chapman been prompted by hearing reports of FM's tinted window cars with no drivers? sounds like Bs to me. Mostly hard to see clearly any drivers if speeding car passing you. and as I said before a small child balancing on a seat to see out the window sounds fanciful. And this highly unusual event he doesn't report. No more comments from me on this sighting.

Except for this edit. And Chapman seeing a fleeting image of a child, can see exactly what he is wearing. Not just saying he was in a red shirt but knowing it was a spiderman outfit.

 

[31550]

I have always been of the view that the emotional trauma of a sons death takes way longer than 40 min to overcome then quietly methodically dispose of body. For a start you have to know he is dead and try to resuscitate him.. it's easier to contemplate now it's 1 hr but I still have misgivings. Remember they were under NO time pressure only that which they themselves created

It's not a normal mother-son relationship.
But suppose there was an altercation and FM (or someone else) struck out at William or acted in some violent way which caused his death. There would be a period of time where those present would assess the situation, attempt resuscitation, think about what they were going to do etc. But this might only require 20 minutes or so. They are not going to stand around a dead 3YO boy doing nothing for 40 minutes! If the decision was made by the person or persons involved to 'cover-up' what had happened to avoid consequences, the plan might have only been put into action for a few minutes, when it was interrupted by the FF text message 'home in 5'. The plan may have been altered to protect FF from either knowing about the situation, or becoming an accessory to the situation. Maybe the plan was hastily changed at 10:30 to allow FM to return to the property to intercept FF?

 

[Awakening]

In regards to Ron, I went down that rabbit hole some months ago because I thought he was onto something. You can probably search for it on here.

But I concluded he had mistaken the day he saw this woman with the boy. Even his own kids said he was mistaken as they were staying with him at the time.

I can’t be bothered going looking for it again, and others might come to a different conclusion.

 

[js47]

Yes. Remember as a teen I went away to a caravan park at North haven..What an amazing location..What an amazing beach

I was saying that tongue in cheek.
The Pol took FM AND FD out to Diamond Head, that is a long drive. I wonder if FF was there too.

 

[truecrimepath]

Maybe the police didn't have a legal way to stop FF from searching? But also I wonder whether it could have been useful for the police to have the foster parents separated every day - to see what each of them did when they thought they were alone, for example, and what they said when together again. That's if the fosters were under surveillance, and I'm just supposing they would have been.

According to my source, a 'Police Officer at Port Macquarie command' , they were not actually considered suspects in the early part of the investigation at all. The focus was entirely on the biological family. This was a priveleged conversation I had with them well before Jubelin taking over. He (and his colleagues) were of the opinion that the senior investigating officer was incompetent, who got to where he was by pounding the flesh (a Politician ascending the ranks).

There was none of the normal activity to treat either Benaroon drive or even the FF home in Sydney as a crime scene, for months. This conversation I had with him started as I showed him something I picked up on the property across the street on google maps that looked odd. The house was put on the market as well soon after the disappearance. He was surprised I had picked this up as the location in Benaroon drive had not been identified at that stage. ( I just worked out where it was by the description.)

 

[js47]

Don't new cars have an inbuilt GPS? Or his phone would have pinged at another phone tower? Surely the cops would have checked out his movements that morning.

Good question we had a new LR at the same time will check this out. Interesting.

 

[js47]

GPS was available but was an extra. In LR and probably Range Rovers

 

[js47]

Gosh, everyone was saying there wasn't enough time to do what was necessary. I give you a theory where there is two extra hours and you now believe there is plenty of time......

Lady O, I live in a country area. To make the engine bonnet warm on a similar car to FGM at 25 degrees it took me 6 Ks to drive some where and back = 12 Ks I think it was a cooler day so you would have to drive further. There for the car who ever drove it went further than Bartar Creek road and Cobb. I went to a house checked the pool filter came home in less time. There was enough time to go place something and be back.

 

[Lady O]

Because your theory (with an extra 2 hours) involves a highly improbable and risky pre-conceived conspiracy involving 3 adults and a child, who have all provided witness statements to the contrary, none of which have been substantially disproven by direct evidence.
On the other hand, I am suggesting that there is no need to create an extra 2 hours - there is already 50 minutes which has not been adequately accounted for, and does not require an intricate conspiracy - it is all down to the inadequacies of the testimony of one person - the FM, who has not accounted for her movements during this 50 minutes satisfactorily.

Well, we don't know if 7.39 was the actual time or if 9.37 was the actual time. Either could be possible. My posts about this was to demonstrate that it was something to consider if you were taking 9.37 as gospel. It could very possibly been any amount of time up to 2 hours earlier. Your suggestion that it was pre-conceived is not really valid, because they doubtless had time to make whatever changes they wanted to after the search had started, ("oh, here are some photos I took this morning/yesterday/3 days ago"). We don't know when the Police were given them and who changed the 'created' time.

 

[Lady O]

Lady O, I live in a country area. To make the engine bonnet warm on a similar car to FGM at 25 degrees it took me 6 Ks to drive some where and back = 12 Ks I think it was a cooler day so you would have to drive further. There for the car who ever drove it went further than Bartar Creek road and Cobb. I went to a house checked the pool filter came home in less time. There was enough time to go place something and be back.

So, did you try driving say 2km, leaving the car running for 20-30 mins and driving back 2km?

 

[js47]

ARB who was the witness who saw FM driving. Is it someone other than the elusive truck driver? Do you have a source? I missed that.

 

[Lady O]

ARB who was the witness who saw FM driving. Is it someone other than the elusive truck driver? Do you have a source? I missed that.

There may also have been someone who approached the Police during the 2021 search. I assume it wasn't "the truck driver" but may have been someone else who saw her or the vehicle.

 

[LRitz]

I have always been of the view that the emotional trauma of a sons death takes way longer than 40 min to overcome then quietly methodically dispose of body. For a start you have to know he is dead and try to resuscitate him.. it's easier to contemplate now it's 1 hr but I still have misgivings. Remember they were under NO time pressure only that which they themselves created

If we say that something terrible and unexpected happened to William, an abduction while playing in the front yard, or a serious accident (fall or vehicle), or punishment that led to a tragic incident and then concealed etc, IMO your reaction in the first instance would be overwhelming.Yes ARB emotional but would also be physical. The panic and adrenaline would really kick in. By the time you saw the neighbours you would be a mess. You would have been screaming his name and have no voice left. Heart racing, sweaty, unable to think straight. Yet FM, though sounding a bit upset and jittery is able to make the emergency call and IMO seems to be steadier as the call goes on. And she is not hoarse from calling out for William.
And as for disposing of a body scenario, leave no evidence, and then turn around with a made up story, that the FGM also agrees with all in 40 minutes! . All IMO of course.

Does this leave the possibility that what happened was expected. I know this is not the most popular theory, but could explain some things. There has been suggestions of a fall from balcony, but this is also just hypothetical. Keep the options open.