Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Earls Smother]

View attachment 2164760

The FD statement about where William went on the day(Wendy Hudson) is in the opposite direction to what has been claimed by the FGM. Does anyone know why.

One says towards the driveway and the other says down below the high verandah.

Was the FD coached to say this? Both can’t be right.

I would discount what the FGM said to the same extent that the FM is doubted. She was elderly and stressed and went on to be diagnosed with dementia.

GJ tended to believe the FD FWIW.

 

[Earls Smother]

I'd be more than a little concerned if the deputy coroner starts treating random unattributed Facebook posts as irrefutable evidence of anything. We'll never solve this case that way.

I'm trying to find where Craddock stated those 5 accepted facts.

The 4th one was the 000 call and the time it was made.

 

[LRitz]

I have no idea. Neither can the police and probably she doesn't even know for sure.

The thing is, the case doesn't really swing on what she has said. SFR can simply doubt and discount everything she has ever said, and then work with what they can establish from other means.

They are now working on the theory that she has mislead them in order to move a corpse undetected. They might want to actually come up with a corpse before attempting to show that it has been moved. How can any charges progress on what they have? They would need either an eyewitness, taped incriminatory conversation/s, or some form of confession to another person who has come forward.

If it was proved that there was intentional misleading statements and in signed police statement tendered in evidence etc (not just a random interview with a journalist or hearsay) this is one charge.

But if FM misled them about something (e.g a drive, or turning her phone off) it is another jump to say this is more serious, like tampering with a corpse. Or prove what exactly FM or FF did or why they are giving false evidence. IMO

 

[Kurve]

I'd be more than a little concerned if the deputy coroner starts treating random unattributed Facebook posts as irrefutable evidence of anything. We'll never solve this case that way.

I'd thought the facebook posts ascertained where people were using geolocation, at the time they were active.

 

[LRitz]

I would discount what the FGM said to the same extent that the FM is doubted. She was elderly and stressed and went on to be diagnosed with dementia.
GJ tended to believe the FD FWIW.

Well, FGM was elderly - So what.
FGM was later diagnosed with dementia. She was also later deceased but not in Sept 2014.
G jubelin tended to believe - say no more.
I have previous said, she lives alone, she drives to Lauriton for shopping. Other short term memory was fine.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

I would discount what the FGM said to the same extent that the FM is doubted. She was elderly and stressed and went on to be diagnosed with dementia.

GJ tended to believe the FD FWIW.

This is something I have seen repeated & repeated as fact. Is there any evidence that the FGM had dementia at the time William went missing? I think by the time the inquest started, she may have been experiencing signs of dementia, she was not called as a witness that I know of. I guess she could have been in a closed court session?

There are several things in the FGM video that are not correct IMO

Like she was down on the road talking to Anne Marie before the FM called police. Anne Marie never said she talked to the FGM in her testimony ( I think this may have happened much later, if it happened ) Also she says the FF was not there that morning when she got up, he was, he just didn't have breakfast with them all IMO.

The FGM also says that the FF arrived when she was walking back up ( after supposedly talking to Anne Marie ) & that somehow he already knew.

Her times are way off IMO

 

[BFew]

Everything about the whole case is unlikely.

That might be a good opening line for either the prosecution or defence if the case was ever to go to trial.

 

[InTheBleachers]

So you can sue the police for simply doing their job? You would have to demonstrate it was done with malicious intent.

• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty

Not guilty verdicts for charges that were meant to put the pressure on?

 

[31550]

The Fm also said he went downhill. The FD says he went the opposite way. Which is true? Just maybe neither are true.

In a court case this would be viewed with high suspicion.

I am presenting the evidence that casts doubt on the narrative.

‘The drive’
‘The phone’
‘The direction William went’
‘The FGM walkthrough’
‘The FM statements and their plasticity’. The statements change to fit the evidence imho.

There can only be one truth.

Ok so twice now you have claimed FD said he went the other way. Is there any reference for this? I don't think she did.

 

[31550]

Not guilty verdicts for charges that were meant to put the pressure on?

That's not malice. It's their job to interrogate witnesses and suspects fully and without favour. And they are legally entitled to do so, within strict boundaries. No evidence that anyone crossed the line with FM. Admittedly Jubelin did with Savage.

 

[BFew]

Not guilty verdicts for charges that were meant to put the pressure on?

And/or the leaking of the alleged leaking of info this year about the alleged briefs against the FM.

 

[31550]

I'd thought the facebook posts ascertained where people were using geolocation, at the time they were active.

Hmmm what people, and where? And I'm not sure how FB does geolocation accurately. If something was proven to be posted from a cellular device, potentially you could triangulate pings if there were more than 2 towers in range. If something was posted using WiFi then probably not. And geolocation can be easily spoofed. Really surprised if the DC is going this route.

 

[31550]

And/or the leaking of the leaking of info this year about the briefs against the FM.

I think possibly you mean alleged leaking of the alleged leaking of the alleged briefs.

 

[Kurve]

Hmmm what people, and where? And I'm not sure how FB does geolocation accurately. If something was proven to be posted from a cellular device, potentially you could triangulate pings if there were more than 2 towers in range. If something was posted using WiFi then probably not. And geolocation can be easily spoofed. Really surprised if the DC is going this route.

Neighbours etc I took it to mean

 

[31550]

Neighbours etc I took it to mean

Can you expand on the significance of this please?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Agree as you say, it's a hypothesis. It's a totally reasonable conclusion to draw, but by no means fact.

Following the lead of SFR and their choices, would have caused an interested sleuth to jump all over the place in the past decade. We don't know that their current belief is the correct one.

That's fine and well explained.

The bolded above is not possible. I think Craddock listed 5 known facts at the start of the recent tranche. The 9.37 photo was one, the FF text was another, a fairly obscure reference to Facebook posts and their relevance to people's locations was another. I can't be bothered going looking for the other 2, but they were not hugely defining.

That means a lot is open to conjecture. A fair bit of recent conjecture has been met with responses that suggest it has been previously ruled out. That can't possibly be the case in the real world.

A known fact is that dogs didn't track him off the property. Admitted by police. Another known fact is there were literally hundreds of people there searching. He was only 3. If he wandered why wasn't he found? if he wandered and was abducted then it raises the question of what opportunity did a opportunist have? Very few cars go into and out of the street. A traffic analysis was provided by Stormbird with numbers. The occasional car but otherwise people that live there. The occasional one that has a reason like Spedding. Did a neighbour take him? But all houses were searched. Did a neighbour grab him and then drive off? Background checks.

And why did he wander? was he looking for FF? Why? Why wasn't he seen in the street by neighbours? There were some at various times.

 

[Kurve]

If anybody's interested, a similar case in Tennessee I've looked at, where 5yo Summer Wells disappeared from a rural block, house on a hill, lots of scrub at the rear.

Summer went downstairs to what they call the basement, to play with her toys, this was the last time she was seen. This basement has an external door that opens out in to the rear yard and is often used.

Dr Grande, who isn't always right but his analysis is usually pretty good and it does seem to reflect what some in this thread are thinking.

 

[Kurve]

Can you expand on the significance of this please?

Some neighbours were out and about, like the woman who was running a different track she would normally be on and further away from Benaroon Drive for example.

Just my interpretation of what I've read and which could be right off because I wasn't there.

 

[Earls Smother]

Hmmm what people, and where? And I'm not sure how FB does geolocation accurately. If something was proven to be posted from a cellular device, potentially you could triangulate pings if there were more than 2 towers in range. If something was posted using WiFi then probably not. And geolocation can be easily spoofed. Really surprised if the DC is going this route.

This is from another forum discussing "Evidence" S2 Ep.5 of Witness:

"Interesting that the Coroner also used Facebook posts to determine what was happening when, in that 9:37am to 11:06am timeline."

I can't find the list of things that Craddock identified as fact. It must have been in relation to discussion of this podcast. Maybe alwaysintrigued can recall?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

This is from another forum discussing "Evidence" S2 Ep.5 of Witness:

"Interesting that the Coroner also used Facebook posts to determine what was happening when, in that 9:37am to 11:06am timeline."

I can't find the list of things that Craddock identified as fact. It must have been in relation to discussion of this podcast. Maybe alwaysintrigued can recall?

I wasn't in court on the Monday when these were stated by Mt Craddock in his opening, unfortunately.

We don't even know if these were the only things stated as certain, there could have been more things he said as well?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The Fm also said he went downhill. The FD says he went the opposite way. Which is true? Just maybe neither are true.

In a court case this would be viewed with high suspicion.

I am presenting the evidence that casts doubt on the narrative.

‘The drive’
‘The phone’
‘The direction William went’
‘The FGM walkthrough’
‘The FM statements and their plasticity’. The statements change to fit the evidence imho.

There can only be one truth.

Yes please supply a reference for what the FD has said. All I understand is her initial statement to WH that he went off the balcony (we assume verandah) in search of FF .The two actual interviews have never been released. We have GJ saying that both FGM and FD are consistent in their accounts. The FGM has clearly indicated that he likely went down hill. Ridiculous concept but that's what she said in her walk through. I've never seen an account where FD said something like you suggested.

 

[BFew]

This is from another forum discussing "Evidence" S2 Ep.5 of Witness:

"Interesting that the Coroner also used Facebook posts to determine what was happening when, in that 9:37am to 11:06am timeline."

I can't find the list of things that Craddock identified as fact. It must have been in relation to discussion of this podcast. Maybe alwaysintrigued can recall?

See here for part of the transcript I copied and pasted in here from this Dan Box podcast that alwaysintrigued summarised these alleged facts from.

 

[Earls Smother]

This is something I have seen repeated & repeated as fact. Is there any evidence that the FGM had dementia at the time William went missing? I think by the time the inquest started, she may have been experiencing signs of dementia, she was not called as a witness that I know of. I guess she could have been in a closed court session?

There are several things in the FGM video that are not correct IMO

Like she was down on the road talking to Anne Marie before the FM called police. Anne Marie never said she talked to the FGM in her testimony ( I think this may have happened much later, if it happened ) Also she says the FF was not there that morning when she got up, he was, he just didn't have breakfast with them all IMO.

The FGM also says that the FF arrived when she was walking back up ( after supposedly talking to Anne Marie ) & that somehow he already knew.

Her times are way off IMO

I suppose I can only comment from personal experience.

My mum had dementia and died from it. In the early years, my sister and I knew something wasn't right. We'd take her to be assessed and she'd pass the "tests". So officially she didn't have dementia, but she was not the same person.

In short, people can be affected way before official diagnosis. They say many, many years earlier the decline can begin. It won't be consistent either, at times they'll be fine. Do I know she was affected when WT went missing - No. Could an elderly woman have had some degree of cognitive decline, that was exacerbated by stress? Quite possibly, but it doesn't really matter - her statements were erratic and unreliable.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

In today's Witness podcast Dan lists these as said by Craddock on Monday 4/11/24 at the opening again of the inquest.

Mr Craddock said these are the timings & things we can be certain off

1. The time the last photo of William was taken
2. The time the text message was sent by William's Foster father was sent
3. The time of the 000 call
4. The time of the first police officer arriving.
5. How different people's facebook posts can show that certain things were happening at certain times & certain people were where they said they were.
6. Talking about the search that was done that morning.

Here is a post I made earlier Earls Smother

 

[LRitz]

William Tyrrell's foster father launched into a vile tirade about a 10-year-old girl, calling her a 'f*ing lazy c*', police allege in court evidence witnessed by Daily Mail Australia
In a recording, JS could be heard claiming that the girl had ruined the lives of both he and his wife. He yelled at the crying girl: 'Move, f***ing move,' according to the recordings...........
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...vile-words.html?ico=authors_pagination_mobile

Allegedly in this recording FF could be heard claiming that the girl had ruined the lives of both he and his wife.

So how exactly did FF think that FD had ruined their lives? It is more than saying you are misbehaving or not doing as you are told. Ruined their lives!
If it was so terrible why did they continue to foster a child if it was misery for them and no doubt misery for the child.