Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Wallace52]

Also, from I Catch Killers, Gary Jubelin & Dan Box, Kindle edition 2020, page 292:

"We bring the postwoman in for an interview in April 2017. She tells us her mail run to the street that day was unusually early, at around 8.45am, so she would have been gone long before William disappeared.

Although there’s no CCTV on Benaroon Drive, we can follow her movements around Kendall on different cameras and see nothing to contradict her version of events."

Omg

 

[Wallace52]

And it's hard to believe that William and his sister would be much different, IMO.
The idea that William's sister at only 4 years of age might have been happy to sit on the patio, drawing or colouring-in, from about 9:30am till maybe when FF gets home at 10:33am - with just a break doing the dice jumping game for a while - it's possible (maybe she was a child who liked to concentrate on one thing for a long time) but to me it just doesn't seem likely.

I think they were different.

 

[31550]

Great detective work Jubes.
Only took 3 years to bring the postie in for questioning. And yet somehow she remembered exactly when her round was, three years earlier? No stone unturned huh?

 

[Wallace52]

Great detective work Jubes.
Only took 3 years to bring the postie in for questioning. And yet somehow she remembered exactly when her round was, three years earlier? No stone unturned huh?

For all we know, the postie could have taken the child.

 

[js47]

I am thinking about the roaring more and more. I question if William jumped off the patio immediately after the photo went around the corner roaring. That would mean before 10 am.
If that is the case Then FF AND FGM may have been so involved with chatting because there was the issue of sorting through the sentimental belongings the washing machine FD quietly colouring and they finally had some peace they just forgot William.
He could have had an accident, been abducted, wandered off been hit by a car.

Then FM panicked and found William.

 

[stormbird]

Great detective work Jubes.
Only took 3 years to bring the postie in for questioning. And yet somehow she remembered exactly when her round was, three years earlier? No stone unturned huh?

I'm hoping the postie would have done a witness statement in 2014, and the 2017 interview was just to check things...? Otherwise, yes, three years is a long time.

For me the point is that (if Jubelin's book is correct) the police seem to have been satisfied that the postie's mail run that morning actually was early. So if Mr and Ms C did hear a vehicle that morning (if their memories are correct), they must have heard someone else, not the postie. So, who?

 

[js47]

Where was Williams pillow? Was it under his head?

 

[stormbird]

I am thinking about the roaring more and more. I question if William jumped off the patio immediately after the photo went around the corner roaring. That would mean before 10 am.
If that is the case Then FF AND FGM may have been so involved with chatting because there was the issue of sorting through the sentimental belongings the washing machine FD quietly colouring and they finally had some peace they just forgot William.
He could have had an accident, been abducted, wandered off been hit by a car.

Then FM panicked and found William.

That could have happened whether he jumped off the patio before or after 10 am.

 

[stormbird]

This article says that Mr and Ms C heard the vehicle at 10:05am (and gives some details about the huge task police faced when considering persons of interest):

'The inquest was also told on Monday [19 August 2019] that more than 400 "persons-of-interest packages" were created as police tried to identify and interview every person who could have taken William.

Acknowledging "person of interest" wasn't an official term used by NSW Police and had no settled definition in policing worldwide, Det Sgt Beacroft said those on the list included neighbours and people living in nearby streets.

"It was a very low standard to meet in order to become a person of interest," she said.

Officers spent months interviewing hundreds of the 1140 people living in the mid-north coast town with a list of set questions before making more targeted inquiries with so-called persons of interest.

Police asked about each person's movements on the morning William disappeared, how they learned of his disappearance and whether they, or others in their home, helped in the search, Det Sgt Beacroft said.

Residents were also asked to detail all deliveries and repairs to their home over a one-year period.

During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when [they] heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.'

- from AAP / Yahoo, 19 Aug 2019

 

[31550]

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.'

So then the Crabbes would also have heard FM when she went out in FGMs car? And when she returned? And when FF arrived home? Yet they don't mention any of those cars, only the postie?

 

[js47]

Stormbird my point was that I feel William was last seen by FM just after the photo of him roaring was taken. I cannot see him roaring for half an hour. This would mean he was missing for a lot longer. The game of dice may have happened before the photo. The FM or FGM may have forgotten they told William go and play roar like a tiger so the could talk.

 

[stormbird]

So then the Crabbes would also have heard FM when she went out in FGMs car? And when she returned? And when FF arrived home? Yet they don't mention any of those cars, only the postie?

I haven't seen any report saying they heard other cars, or that they heard William roaring or any noises from FGM's. If they didn't hear those things, IMO that calls into question whether those other things happened; or alternatively, whether their witness accounts are reliable. As in post 343, I think they should have been in the best position of any of the neighbours to see or hear something useful, but almost nothing was reported about whatever they said at the inquest.

 

[stormbird]

Stormbird my point was that I feel William was last seen by FM just after the photo of him roaring was taken. I cannot see him roaring for half an hour. This would mean he was missing for a lot longer. The game of dice may have happened before the photo. The FM or FGM may have forgotten they told William go and play roar like a tiger so the could talk.

Good point. It doesn't make sense that he would want to be roaring like a tiger for half an hour.

 

[31550]

I'm hoping the postie would have done a witness statement in 2014, and the 2017 interview was just to check things...? Otherwise, yes, three years is a long time.

For me the point is that (if Jubelin's book is correct) the police seem to have been satisfied that the postie's mail run that morning actually was early. So if Mr and Ms C did hear a vehicle that morning (if their memories are correct), they must have heard someone else, not the postie. So, who?

You see, the postie's evidence is critical. Because the Crabbs were out on their verandah during a critical time.
They heard a car, (only one car) at this time. They thought it might have been the postie. If it wasn't the postie it may have been the abductor or the FM in FGM car. It was too early to be the FF coming home.
It would have been vital to know if the postie even visited the top end of Benaroon Drive that morning. Did police confirm whether or not any mail was delivered to #48, or #50, or the other house at the top of Benaroon? If not, then the postie would not have driven up there, and it couldn't have been the postie who the Crabbs heard. Did they confirm form any other data that the postie completed her round early that day? (Was it possibly even the same postal route that Ron Chapman was on?) Did the postie see any cars in the street?
All critical questions which nobody seems to have asked, or if they did, they asked them too late.
How about re-enacting the whole scenario with the Crabbs sitting on their verandah and driving a couple of different vehicles in and out of FGM drive to see if they could hear them, and what they sounded like? Did they ever try that? No stone unturned.

 

[Wallace52]

All critical questions which nobody seems to have asked, or if they did, they asked them too late.
How about re-enacting the whole scenario with the Crabbs sitting on their verandah and driving a couple of different vehicles in and out of FGM drive to see if they could hear them, and what they sounded like? Did they ever try that? No stone unturned.

Perfect. I love this idea so much. No stone unturned.

 

[stormbird]

You see, the postie's evidence is critical. Because the Crabbs were out on their verandah during a critical time.
They heard a car, (only one car) at this time. They thought it might have been the postie. If it wasn't the postie it may have been the abductor or the FM in FGM car. It was too early to be the FF coming home.
It would have been vital to know if the postie even visited the top end of Benaroon Drive that morning. Did police confirm whether or not any mail was delivered to #48, or #50, or the other house at the top of Benaroon? If not, then the postie would not have driven up there, and it couldn't have been the postie who the Crabbs heard. Did they confirm form any other data that the postie completed her round early that day? (Was it possibly even the same postal route that Ron Chapman was on?) Did the postie see any cars in the street?
All critical questions which nobody seems to have asked, or if they did, they asked them too late.
How about re-enacting the whole scenario with the Crabbs sitting on their verandah and driving a couple of different vehicles in and out of FGM drive to see if they could hear them, and what they sounded like? Did they ever try that? No stone unturned.

Just in their defence, it's possible the police did ask and answer all the postie-related questions and then moved on. It seems like they only talk to the public when they want something, IMO, so if they solved the apparent mystery of the "postie" vehicle and eliminated it, there'd be no reason to tell us (or not unless it came up at the inquest and it was just the useless reporters who didn't tell us).

Something I hope was checked: did the unusual earliness of the postie's mail run that day mean that somebody else had to help her out with some deliveries later? (The Chumley book says "...the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning." (post 1,698) Maybe that's wrong. But if correct, and if the usual postie had gone, then who was there about 10am?

Hypothetically (I don't know how it works): maybe FGM's postie was too early that day to pick up and deliver everything she normally would have (e.g. newspapers? priority mail? anything arriving later at the mail sorting centre, which I think was probably in Kempsey?).

Re Mr Chapman: he lived in town, so IMO his house was more likely on a postie-bike run. The town mailboxes are on footpaths or close to the houses, not at the edge of roads, so it would be easier for posties to get to them on a bike.

A postie bike was parked across the road from FGM's when volunteers were searching the vacant lot (my guess in the early afternoon?) But maybe that postie had finished for the day on some other run and was there to help search. The bike is on the left, behind No.43's mailbox:



Cropped by me:



Photo from Port Macquarie News, 12/14 Sep 2014 but their articles are now paywalled and I can't check it.

 

[stormbird]

Where was Williams pillow? Was it under his head?

What do you mean, js47?

 

[stormbird]

The long goodbye: how families of missing people suffer a unique kind of grief, ABC, 30 June 2024

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...arching-missing-people-unique-grief/103997156

 

[js47]

Just in their defence, it's possible the police did ask and answer all the postie-related questions and then moved on. It seems like they only talk to the public when they want something, IMO, so if they solved the apparent mystery of the "postie" vehicle and eliminated it, there'd be no reason to tell us (or not unless it came up at the inquest and it was just the useless reporters who didn't tell us).

Something I hope was checked: did the unusual earliness of the postie's mail run that day mean that somebody else had to help her out with some deliveries later? (The Chumley book says "...the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning." (post 1,698) Maybe that's wrong. But if correct, and if the usual postie had gone, then who was there about 10am?

Hypothetically (I don't know how it works): maybe FGM's postie was too early that day to pick up and deliver everything she normally would have (e.g. newspapers? priority mail? anything arriving later at the mail sorting centre, which I think was probably in Kempsey?).

Re Mr Chapman: he lived in town, so IMO his house was more likely on a postie-bike run. The town mailboxes are on footpaths or close to the houses, not at the edge of roads, so it would be easier for posties to get to them on a bike.

A postie bike was parked across the road from FGM's when volunteers were searching the vacant lot (my guess in the early afternoon?) But maybe that postie had finished for the day on some other run and was there to help search. The bike is on the left, behind No.43's mailbox:

View attachment 2034825

Cropped by me:

View attachment 2034828

Photo from Port Macquarie News, 12/14 Sep 2014 but their articles are now paywalled and I can't check it.

Just in their defence, it's possible the police did ask and answer all the postie-related questions and then moved on. It seems like they only talk to the public when they want something, IMO, so if they solved the apparent mystery of the "postie" vehicle and eliminated it, there'd be no reason to tell us (or not unless it came up at the inquest and it was just the useless reporters who didn't tell us).

Something I hope was checked: did the unusual earliness of the postie's mail run that day mean that somebody else had to help her out with some deliveries later? (The Chumley book says "...the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning." (post 1,698) Maybe that's wrong. But if correct, and if the usual postie had gone, then who was there about 10am?

Hypothetically (I don't know how it works): maybe FGM's postie was too early that day to pick up and deliver everything she normally would have (e.g. newspapers? priority mail? anything arriving later at the mail sorting centre, which I think was probably in Kempsey?).

Re Mr Chapman: he lived in town, so IMO his house was more likely on a postie-bike run. The town mailboxes are on footpaths or close to the houses, not at the edge of roads, so it would be easier for posties to get to them on a bike.

A postie bike was parked across the road from FGM's when volunteers were searching the vacant lot (my guess in the early afternoon?) But maybe that postie had finished for the day on some other run and was there to help search. The bike is on the left, behind No.43's mailbox:

View attachment 2034825

Cropped by me:

View attachment 2034828

Photo from Port Macquarie News, 12/14 Sep 2014 but their articles are now paywalled and I can't check it.

Wow! It never ceases to amaze me all the information you get on this site. Mmmmm! The postal bike. Was the postie just having a look? You would think it would have been taken back to the depot. Wonder if it had mail in it still? If it only services the town it should not have been there should it?

 

[js47]

What do you mean, js47?

In the FGM walk through photos there is only one pillow on the bed. There was chatter about a missing blanket but what about the pillow? You would think William had a pillow. Was it used if there was an accident and it was grabbed to put under his head?

 

[31550]

Photo including postie bike was clearly not taken on the day of William's disappearance but obviously a day or two later, so it's not really relevant.

The important thing to know is whether the Crabb's could definitely hear all vehicles entering or leaving FGMs driveway, and then if they heard the postie or someone else. And if FM took the drive she said she did, why didn't the Crabb's hear her leave or return?

 

[js47]

Just in their defence, it's possible the police did ask and answer all the postie-related questions and then moved on. It seems like they only talk to the public when they want something, IMO, so if they solved the apparent mystery of the "postie" vehicle and eliminated it, there'd be no reason to tell us (or not unless it came up at the inquest and it was just the useless reporters who didn't tell us).

Something I hope was checked: did the unusual earliness of the postie's mail run that day mean that somebody else had to help her out with some deliveries later? (The Chumley book says "...the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning." (post 1,698) Maybe that's wrong. But if correct, and if the usual postie had gone, then who was there about 10am?

Hypothetically (I don't know how it works): maybe FGM's postie was too early that day to pick up and deliver everything she normally would have (e.g. newspapers? priority mail? anything arriving later at the mail sorting centre, which I think was probably in Kempsey?).

Re Mr Chapman: he lived in town, so IMO his house was more likely on a postie-bike run. The town mailboxes are on footpaths or close to the houses, not at the edge of roads, so it would be easier for posties to get to them on a bike.

A postie bike was parked across the road from FGM's when volunteers were searching the vacant lot (my guess in the early afternoon?) But maybe that postie had finished for the day on some other run and was there to help search. The bike is on the left, behind No.43's mailbox:

View attachment 2034825

Cropped by me:

View attachment 2034828

Photo from Port Macquarie News, 12/14 Sep 2014 but their articles are now paywalled and I can't check it.

What was the postie doing there if that was not his route and the mail was delivered by car. Was there mail in the bag? It never ceases to amaze me how much I learn on this site.

 

[js47]

Sorry my reply did not go through the first time

 

[stormbird]

Photo including postie bike was clearly not taken on the day of William's disappearance but obviously a day or two later, so it's not really relevant.

The important thing to know is whether the Crabb's could definitely hear all vehicles entering or leaving FGMs driveway, and then if they heard the postie or someone else. And if FM took the drive she said she did, why didn't the Crabb's hear her leave or return?

Could you explain that please 31550? How is it clear that the photo wasn't taken on the Friday (Day 1) and obvious that it was taken a day or two later (on a weekend, when normally there wouldn't be any mail deliveries)?

 

[DropBearess]

In the FGM walk through photos there is only one pillow on the bed. There was chatter about a missing blanket but what about the pillow? You would think William had a pillow. Was it used if there was an accident and it was grabbed to put under his head?

I've always thought William's pillow must have been taken and used by LE to obtain his scent and DNA, hence its' absence in the walk-through. Pillows are an excellent forensic resource in cases like this. If it wasn't taken, where is it?

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