Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Wallace52]

I've always thought William's pillow must have been taken and used by LE to obtain his scent and DNA, hence its' absence in the walk-through. Pillows are an excellent forensic resource in cases like this. If it wasn't taken, where is it?

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It’s not visible in the FGM walkthrough video.

Where is William’s pillow?

 

[31550]

It’s not visible in the FGM walkthrough video.

Where is William’s pillow?

Not one of these?

 

[31550]

Could you explain that please 31550? How is it clear that the photo wasn't taken on the Friday (Day 1) and obvious that it was taken a day or two later (on a weekend, when normally there wouldn't be any mail deliveries)?

I think the lighting of the photo indicates it was taken early in the day, probably before noon. There are quite a few people, including several SES, - looks like they are about to commence a 'line search' - I don't think there would have been time for this level of organisation and this many people on the Friday, as well as a news photographer onsite to take the photos. So I have concluded that it was not the Friday, but one of the following days.
As for the presence of the Post bike, I'm not sure if anyone rides them on weekends or not, or whether they are sometimes used for 'non-postal activity'.
The article was originally published with a dateline of 12th September, but subsequently updated, so I cannot say for sure when this particular photo was taken.
In any case there is nothing to indicate this is the Benaroon Drive postie's vehicle, or if it was that this is relevant.

With regard to Benaroon Drive having the same postal route and postie as Laurel St (Ron Chapman), I assumed this was a possibility as the properties are only 1km apart, and both streets are off Batar Creek Rd. I thought it was possible that a postie leaving Kendall town centre would go down Batar Creek Road, possibly servicing both properties? I don't know how many posties / postal routes there are in Kendall - wouldn't have thought there would be very many.
Note that Ron Chapman was waiting for the postie (and thought he heard him/her) at 10:45am on the day William disappeared - this about two hours after the FGM's postie says she was in Benaroon Drive.

 

[LRitz]

I've always thought William's pillow must have been taken and used by LE to obtain his scent and DNA, hence its' absence in the walk-through. Pillows are an excellent forensic resource in cases like this. If it wasn't taken, where is it?

In the FGM walk through photos there is only one pillow on the bed. There was chatter about a missing blanket but what about the pillow? You would think William had a pillow. Was it used if there was an accident and it was grabbed to put under his head?

Things could have moved over days and no one may have a memory. stick to the evidence. FGM walkthrough is a few days later. Many people have been through the house. It is clear that some things are different. There is washing on the line and no sign of crayons or drawing on the back deck. Unless police took photos on the Friday I don't think a pillow can be assumed to be taken, used, or missing.

 

[LRitz]

I'm hoping the postie would have done a witness statement in 2014, and the 2017 interview was just to check things...? Otherwise, yes, three years is a long time.

For me the point is that (if Jubelin's book is correct) the police seem to have been satisfied that the postie's mail run that morning actually was early. So if Mr and Ms C did hear a vehicle that morning (if their memories are correct), they must have heard someone else, not the postie. So, who?

My guess, the postie, like most people in Kendall, was well aware on Friday that William was missing. She would have thought about her trips that day and known she went to Benaroon drive (even if her recorded statement was not until some time after). So likely her trip was early as she said at around 8:45. She has no reason to give inaccurate information to police. Mr and Mrs C (if I recall correctly) were reported to have left as usual, like clockwork, at around 8:00 for their daily exercise. So they would not have heard the early postie visit. So when they heard the car around 10:00 ish it would be easy to understand they assumed it was the postie. But it could have been the FM in FGM reverse down the drive and then have to turn to drive down Benaroon. All IMO.

No indication that the postie saw FF leave at 8:45 or be driving down Benaroon, to be at tennis club at 8:50.

If the FM did drive FGM's car, and if she returned, say for discussion purpose, around 10:10 would the car still have warm from the drive when police arrive an hour late? Any ideas?

 

[31550]

If the FM did drive FGM's car, and if she returned, say for discussion purpose, around 10:10 would the car still have warm from the drive when police arrive an hour late? Any ideas?

IMO it might be detectable at 11:00am when the police first arrived that the car had been driven earlier that morning - there would still be residual engine heat for 30-60 minutes in normal conditions if the car had reached operating temperature. And a diligent police officer would have checked this. The $1M question is, "Did they?". If the car engine was even a little warm at 11:00am it would indicate the car was driven after 10am, possibly as late as 10:30am. If the engine was stone cold, then the car could not have been driven at all after about 10:15 IMO. This would narrow down the time of the drive, if the detective work was done at the time.

 

[LRitz]

IMO it might be detectable at 11:00am when the police first arrived that the car had been driven earlier that morning - there would still be residual engine heat for 30-60 minutes in normal conditions if the car had reached operating temperature. And a diligent police officer would have checked this. The $1M question is, "Did they?". If the car engine was even a little warm at 11:00am it would indicate the car was driven after 10am, possibly as late as 10:30am. If the engine was stone cold, then the car could not have been driven at all after about 10:15 IMO. This would narrow down the time of the drive, if the detective work was done at the time.

The whole FM drive is confusing. FM initially leaves it out, and also has no space to fit the drive into her initial statement so it puts this whole statement into question IMO. But by the time of her walkthrough her memory is back, and she talks of the drive in detail, And the mystery truck/semi that may not have existed. Would like to know what happened in between, if there was possible tip off or question by police (e.g asking FGM did she (FGM) drive her car that morning) that preempted FM to admit to drive, and have an excuse in looking for William.All just possible IMO.

 

[js47]

Things could have moved over days and no one may have a memory. stick to the evidence. FGM walkthrough is a few days later. Many people have been through the house. It is clear that some things are different. There is washing on the line and no sign of crayons or drawing on the back deck. Unless police took photos on the Friday I don't think a pillow can be assumed to be taken, used, or missing.

Well every one is assuming William is missing.

 

[31550]

Well every one is assuming William is missing.

what does that mean?

 

[Wallace52]

what does that mean?

Well he may not have been missing as such, he may have been moved, or murdered, or hidden.

IMO

 

[js47]

Not one of these?

Maybe.

 

[js47]

what does that mean?

That every one questions everything about Williams disappearance and IMO what you may see as an assumption may not be.

 

[31550]

Well he may not have been missing as such, he may have been moved, or murdered, or hidden.

IMO

Yes but there is very strong evidence to suggest he was at the house in the morning, and very strong evidence that he wasn't there in the afternoon or ever again, so he is definitely 'missing'.

Unlike the theoretical pillow which we don't know if it existed or not. We don't know if a special pillow was taken up for William, or one was given to him at FGMs, and we don't know if either of the two blue pillows shown in FGM walkthrough were used by William. We don't know what item(s) were given to the sniffer dogs so they could detect William's scent (as opposed to any random human scent). Maybe there was a pillow, maybe there wasn't. We don't know.

I am still trying to understand why people are asking about pillows and what relevance they have? If William did have a pillow, which disappeared with him, then there would be some point, but there is no evidence that I know of which indicates this as fact.

 

[js47]

Yes but there is very strong evidence to suggest he was at the house in the morning, and very strong evidence that he wasn't there in the afternoon or ever again, so he is definitely 'missing'.

Unlike the theoretical pillow which we don't know if it existed or not. We don't know if a special pillow was taken up for William, or one was given to him at FGMs, and we don't know if either of the two blue pillows shown in FGM walkthrough were used by William. We don't know what item(s) were given to the sniffer dogs so they could detect William's scent (as opposed to any random human scent). Maybe there was a pillow, maybe there wasn't. We don't know.

I am still trying to understand why people are asking about pillows and what relevance they have? If William did have a pillow, which disappeared with him, then there would be some point, but there is no evidence that I know of which indicates this as fact.

thank you for answering my question.
If some one hurts themselves many people grab pillows to put under their head. Time to move on.

 

[DropBearess]

While we're on the subject of pillows and bedrooms etc......

Where did LT sleep on the night William was "abducted"? We know SD and JS were holed up in their bedroom by 9pm, refusing to see anyone. Surely this poor little four year old wasn't left in a room by herself at night after losing her little brother just hours earlier? We know FGM bailed out of the situation by the second night, to stay with her niece. So where did LT sleep on subsequent nights before they went home to Sydney? There was an "abductor" on the loose wasn't there? Surely LT would have been incredibly stressed and fearful the same thing would happen to her?

When you think about it, despite all the questions about everyone's activities that day, not a single person has ever answered "l was supporting LT at the time", (or that day, or that night). Do we have any information at all about how this little victim was supported from the moment of William's "abduction"?


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[Wallace52]

thank you for answering my question.
If some one hurts themselves many people grab pillows to put under their head. Time to move on.

That’s not a thing.

Imagine putting a pillow under his head after a head injury and then just disposing of his body and the pillow.

Is that your theory?

While we're on the subject of pillows and bedrooms etc......

Where did LT sleep on the night William was "abducted"? We know SD and JS were holed up in their bedroom by 9pm, refusing to see anyone. Surely this poor little four year old wasn't left in a room by herself at night after losing her little brother just hours earlier? We know FGM bailed out of the situation by the second night, to stay with her niece. So where did LT sleep on subsequent nights before they went home to Sydney? There was an "abductor" on the loose wasn't there? Surely LT would have been incredibly stressed and fearful the same thing would happen to her?

When you think about it, despite all the questions about everyone's activities that day, not a single person has ever answered "l was supporting LT at the time", (or that day, or that night). Do we have any information at all about how this little victim was supported from the moment of William's "abduction"?


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Yeah, that’s a very good point.

There was a boogie man on the loose and a little girl all on her own.

The FM said there were two cars. She said one was there for William and the other was there for his sister.

It’s totally insane. It doesn’t make sense to me. The 4 year old sister must have been very scared.

 

[stormbird]

While we're on the subject of pillows and bedrooms etc......

Where did LT sleep on the night William was "abducted"? We know SD and JS were holed up in their bedroom by 9pm, refusing to see anyone. Surely this poor little four year old wasn't left in a room by herself at night after losing her little brother just hours earlier? We know FGM bailed out of the situation by the second night, to stay with her niece. So where did LT sleep on subsequent nights before they went home to Sydney? There was an "abductor" on the loose wasn't there? Surely LT would have been incredibly stressed and fearful the same thing would happen to her?

When you think about it, despite all the questions about everyone's activities that day, not a single person has ever answered "l was supporting LT at the time", (or that day, or that night). Do we have any information at all about how this little victim was supported from the moment of William's "abduction"?


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Re "We know SD and JS were holed up in their bedroom by 9pm, refusing to see anyone. [...] We know FGM bailed out of the situation by the second night, to stay with her niece."

DropBearess, I didn't know any of that. Is it reliable information (e.g. from a statement or interview, etc)? If so, which bedroom were the fosters in? Where did FGM stay (e.g. hotel, house, general location)? Thanks.

 

[31550]

That’s not a thing.

Imagine putting a pillow under his head after a head injury and then just disposing of his body and the pillow.

Is that your theory?

Yeah, that’s a very good point.

There was a boogie man on the loose and a little girl all on her own.

It’s totally insane. It doesn’t make sense to me. She must have been very scared.

I would hope she slept in the same bed as the previous night, but without FM. Presumably FM and FF would have taken FGMs bed.
I do not condone adult foster carers sharing beds with foster children under any circumstances.
If Williams sister needed support an adult could have sat with her in the same room (not bed) until she fell asleep.

 

[js47]

That’s not a thing.

Imagine putting a pillow under his head after a head injury and then just disposing of his body and the pillow.

Is that your theory?

Yeah, that’s a very good point.

There was a boogie man on the loose and a little girl all on her own.

The FM said there were two cars. She said one was there for William and the other was there for his sister.

It’s totally insane. It doesn’t make sense to me. The 4 year old sister must have been very scared.

I am a retired RN my daughter and son in law ambulance officers I was also on the CH SES a long long time ago. Believe me people put all sorts of things under people’s heads. If William was seriously hurt as falling off a balcony he may not have been dead. He may have been moved and transported. I don’t have access to a lot of information but I have seen how people act in emergencies at times which leaves me open mouthed.

 

[31550]

I am a retired RN my daughter and son in law ambulance officers I was also on the CH SES a long long time ago. Believe me people put all sorts of things under people’s heads. If William was seriously hurt as falling off a balcony he may not have been dead. He may have been moved and transported. I don’t have access to a lot of information but I have seen how people act in emergencies at times which leaves me open mouthed.

This line of discussion seems rather pointless. According to the only eyewitnesses William disappeared, and did not suffer any accident. So any discussion about pillows is irrelevant as nobody admits to witnessing any accident in the first place, so they can hardly be expected to give us any useful information about pillows.

 

[Wallace52]

I am a retired RN my daughter and son in law ambulance officers I was also on the CH SES a long long time ago. Believe me people put all sorts of things under people’s heads. If William was seriously hurt as falling off a balcony he may not have been dead. He may have been moved and transported. I don’t have access to a lot of information but I have seen how people act in emergencies at times which leaves me open mouthed.

Have you heard the FM 000 call? What did you make of it with your RN background?

 

[DropBearess]

Re "We know SD and JS were holed up in their bedroom by 9pm, refusing to see anyone. [...] We know FGM bailed out of the situation by the second night, to stay with her niece."

DropBearess, I didn't know any of that. Is it reliable information (e.g. from a statement or interview, etc)? If so, which bedroom were the fosters in? Where did FGM stay (e.g. hotel, house, general location)? Thanks.

I believe the source was Wendy Hudson's statement, in that she documented visiting at 9 that night to check everyone's well-being, only to be told by FGM the fosters were in bed, not to be disturbed.

FGM stated somewhere she left on day 2, to stay with her niece. Does anyone have a link?

If LT did perchance stay in the same room as the fosters, surely then she would have been a witness to conversations and emotions which were way too big for her.

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[stormbird]

This line of discussion seems rather pointless. According to the only eyewitnesses William disappeared, and did not suffer any accident. So any discussion about pillows is irrelevant as nobody admits to witnessing any accident in the first place, so they can hardly be expected to give us any useful information about pillows.

31550, your approval is not needed or sought, so if you don't like a post please just shut the eff up and scroll on by.

 

[31550]

31550, your approval is not needed or sought, so if you don't like a post please just shut the eff up and scroll on by.

I'll shut up if you stop trying to derail the discussion with false assumptions and irrelevant opinions presented as fact. You sound like FMs lawyer.

 

[DropBearess]

This line of discussion seems rather pointless. According to the only eyewitnesses William disappeared, and did not suffer any accident. So any discussion about pillows is irrelevant as nobody admits to witnessing any accident in the first place, so they can hardly be expected to give us any useful information about pillows.

Whoa! Fair suck of the sav! William's pillow, wherever it is, must surely be the baseline for all forensic pathology in this case, in terms of scent and DNA. How could it possibly be irrelevant?



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