Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following initials to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above initials. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Angry Red Bull]

True and FM asked FF did you pick up William he replied why would I have him? Am I Right? I remember some sort of conversation along those lines?

I've just struggled with the small time window all along.

True and FM asked FF did you pick up William he replied why would I have him? Am I Right? I remember some sort of conversation along those lines?

Yes there was such an exchange.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Against the likelihood of an accident or criminal death is the fact that GJ used the listening devices after having rattled the cage. He used it because it was successful..Yet they didn't discuss the case. Then later they were caught out hitting the FD so they weren't aware that were being bugged on that occassion..

 

[shorsky]

I think you’re right about things getting missed, as it seems Detectives were focused on certain scenarios at the time.
I’ll just say it wasn’t a biological relative but rather someone connected to the family with wider circles. These wider circles are very coincidental IMO.
I guess it depends what evidence Detectives have now as they’re presuming William is deceased. I do wonder if the evidence is in relation to witnesses seeing the foster Mother when she went for a drive and items found, and if it’s in relation to the Spider-Man outfit, and if so, is there any evidence William was wearing it at the time he left the property?
There’s something really weird about this case and I think anything’s possible.

Please do follow up Again, not only with Crime-stoppers, but certainly with the Coroners Office, and also with your local police Dept & Missing Persons departments. Currently I believe the investigation team are grasping at straws & trying to justify their existence.

Please do present your information again in the name of an innocent little boy, and all the people for whom his disappearance has wreaked pain and suffering - and even if it turns out to be a simple case of ‘doubles’, you will have still done a wonderful thing.

Bless you

 

[shorsky]

Gary Jubelin isn't silly but I think he did a silly thing and he wasn't gone at so hard by the brass for simply making a sly tape recording through an investigation in to a missing child.

He really stuffed up somewhere.

I think he may have been a hard task master, I think he possibly trod on some toes, and also his ego maybe caused some problems.

I know there’s division in thoughts - I go through it with myself - but I’m not convinced there’s been any better investigation since he was removed

 

[shorsky]

I think the brass just used the illegal recording as an excuse to get rid of Jubelin. He's done something else.

I'm not suggesting he did this but as an example, if he was caught out having an affair with the foster mother, when he should have been looking in to her, that would do it.

Jubelin risked it all really though, in order to secure the $1m reward, by assuring the bosses that absolutely, the FM had nothing to do with it. It seems pretty obvious now that he probably shouldn't have done that because on a harder look, she should have been right in the frame.

IMO, everyone in that house the night prior & on the fateful day, should've been subjected to a totally different experience to what they were from the outset - but to be fair to Jubelin, that wasn’t on his watch.

As much as I think FM talks a load of changeable & self postulating ‘gibberish’, they’ve not been able to nail her with anything to do with William, and very little of the ‘side line’ offences against poor L.

At the same time they’ve not been able to offer anything to suggest that William was abducted ( even though the Coroner seemed to lean that way previously)

 

[shorsky]

It's already on Wiki. Wow, after all this time I hope they find her.

On September 10th, 2024 a large NC State Forensics team was seen conducting a thorough examination on a large home property on Cherryville Rd/NC Hwy 150 near Shelby,NC that was subsequently reported on the evening local news to be related to this case.

Disappearance of Asha Degree - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hopefully it’s brings the answers that her loved ones have spent 24 years waiting for.

And I can’t help but wonder - what happened in that initial investigation that the child is now found buried 5 mins from home !

 

[Todman]

What William would look like today, From the Daily Mail.

 

[shorsky]

I understand the thought process but personally, and I can only think about if I was in that situation, I would phone police quickly if it was my toddler. I’d think differently if it was a teenager/adult but a toddler you can’t find (and they were supposed to be a few metres away) (there’s something terribly wrong.)

I tend to agree - and I’ll now beg pardon to tell a little story of some years ago. My 3-4 yr old grandson living in a small unit complex. Next door child was poss 4 yrs older & fostered. The kids were playing out front & suddenly he was missing; we were calling him, looking everywhere, inside & around both abodes, rattling boxes they’d been playing with, cross questioning her, having her look in places, telling him the game was over, searching again all over, and generally getting quite frantic (looking back it was a reasonably short amount of time, I doubt 1/2 hour) Eventually I said to my daughter “That’s it, I’m calling the Police” …. and guess what - out of one of the boxes that I’d already checked, popped this mischievous little boy !! Thank the Lord !
Just highlighting ‘kids’, but that no way could I have waited 2 hours before sounding the alarm & getting help.
Having said that, our search area then was limited.

So ok, I’m now trying to change the location to a neighbourhood house block.

FM did go up the street looking.
She noticed Annemarie Sharpley & asked if she’d seen William. Annemarie then went to Paul Savage’s place. I believe Paul went off looking for him.
Another neighbour Lydene Heslop put notice on Facebook.
I actually find it strange that all the neighbours’ doors weren't knocked on & that they weren’t roped into an immediate search at that early stage.
FM said she hadn’t seen the ‘home in 5’ text at that stage so she wouldn’t have been racing back to meet him surely. … and how come he didn’t meet her on the road on his way home.

 

[31550]

What William would look like today, From the Daily Mail.

Did anyone bother to check with William's biological family that they were comfortable with this being published? They may find it distasteful, if not downright offensive.
I don't think articles like this are helpful to the cause. The picture cannot be proven to be accurate - if he was alive he may look nothing like that. Or maybe there's a kid (not William) walking around who looks exactly like that who is now going to be unnecessarily put in the spotlight.

I often ask myself with William's case, how would the investigation had gone if William was the biological child of well-known, wealthy, well-connected parents?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

True and FM asked FF did you pick up William he replied why would I have him? Am I Right? I remember some sort of conversation along those lines?

"Have you got William" I think were the words

"Why would I have him" in response

Something similar

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Did anyone bother to check with William's biological family that they were comfortable with this being published? They may find it distasteful, if not downright offensive.
I don't think articles like this are helpful to the cause. The picture cannot be proven to be accurate - if he was alive he may look nothing like that. Or maybe there's a kid (not William) walking around who looks exactly like that who is now going to be unnecessarily put in the spotlight.

I often ask myself with William's case, how would the investigation had gone if William was the biological child of well-known, wealthy, well-connected parents?

Both biological parents are destroyed by the whole situation. Just horrible.

I know that the foster parents were actively engaging in attempts to undermine the biological relationship by not giving access to the Xmas presents as one example.....evil. Ie they saw their foster status as an opportunity to advance their role as parents at someone elses (the bio parents) expense. That is utterly disgraceful. Gives you insight into their true character. Shows their obsessiveness.

Whatever happened that morning imo caused the rift between FGM and FM. Yes the strain was massive but most pull tight because of him missing..they don't pull apart despite the strain. The strain and loss makes tight.

 

[NRL Fan]

Like most people here, I've been following this case for ten years, partly because I have a residence not far from where WT went missing. This case is possibly the most intriguing disappearance ever documented. How does a 3yo boy wearing a bright red suit, vanish from a residential yard without a trace ?. Every person in the local area has been closely examined. A huge volunteer search covered the surrounding areas for weeks after he vanished. A huge section of nearby bushland has been dug up and sifted through fine filters, as has the area around the house. Phone records and metadata have been closely examined, as have all security and highway camera images. Despite this massive investigation spanning almost 10 years, including a million dollar reward and large media exposure, not one verified clue has emerged. How is this possible ?. IMO - It's not possible and perhaps that in itself is the biggest clue we have in this case. What WT scenario would lead us to a point where we have nothing after ten years ?.

I think this is why all roads have led back to the FM. If WT was abducted by a 3rd party from a residential street in broad daylight, you would expect someone would have seen something or some evidence would emerge later. The lack of any evidence has effectively made the FM the sole POI. But in defense of the FM, how does a person conceal such a hineous crime for ten long years, conceal this from her husband and have her mum willingly participate in the coverup ?. Especially with the enormous police pressure which included a series of unrelated prosecutions designed to force out a confession. That FM scenario is almost as implausible as WT being able to vanish without a trace in the first place and is probably why GJ wants all avenues of investigation to remain open.

Former William Tyrrell detective says he has 'concerns' over police tunnel vision

For four years, Gary Jubelin was the lead investigator of William Tyrrell's disappearance. A decade since the three-year-old went missing, the former detective has called for better transparency and accountability into the case.

www.abc.net.au

I'll be driving past Kendall again on the weekend and the answer to "where is William" is now further away than ever and getting further away as each day passes.

 

[31550]

Like most people here, I've been following this case for ten years, partly because I have a residence not far from where WT went missing. This case is possibly the most intriguing disappearance ever documented. How does a 3yo boy wearing a bright red suit, vanish from a residential yard without a trace ?. Every person in the local area has been closely examined. A huge volunteer search covered the surrounding areas for weeks after he vanished. A huge section of nearby bushland has been dug up and sifted through fine filters, as has the area around the house. Phone records and metadata have been closely examined, as have all security and highway camera images. Despite this massive investigation spanning almost 10 years, including a million dollar reward and large media exposure, not one verified clue has emerged. How is this possible ?. IMO - It's not possible and perhaps that in itself is the biggest clue we have in this case. What WT scenario would lead us to a point where we have nothing after ten years ?.

I think this is why all roads have led back to the FM. If WT was abducted by a 3rd party from a residential street in broad daylight, you would expect someone would have seen something or some evidence would emerge later. The lack of any evidence has effectively made the FM the sole POI. But in defense of the FM, how does a person conceal such a hineous crime for ten long years, conceal this from her husband and have her mum willingly participate in the coverup ?. Especially with the enormous police pressure which included a series of unrelated prosecutions designed to force out a confession. That FM scenario is almost as implausible as WT being able to vanish without a trace in the first place and is probably why GJ wants all avenues of investigation to remain open.

Former William Tyrrell detective says he has 'concerns' over police tunnel vision

For four years, Gary Jubelin was the lead investigator of William Tyrrell's disappearance. A decade since the three-year-old went missing, the former detective has called for better transparency and accountability into the case.

www.abc.net.au

I'll be driving past Kendall again on the weekend and the answer to "where is William" is now further away than ever and getting further away as each day passes.

When You Have Eliminated the Impossible Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be the Truth - Sherlock Holmes.​

We can eliminate the impossible, and we are left with conclusions which might seem inconceivable, heinous, cruel or callous, but are nevertheless practically and certainly humanly possible.

One thing we cannot predict with any certainty is human behaviour. Nor can we always explain it adequately. People do the strangest things for no apparent reason.

I think we can say with some certainty that there has been human intervention in William's disappearance and removal from the FGM house. There is also almost certainly a vehicle involved. The person or persons involved have not come forward or confessed. Nor has the vehicle been positively identified. The number of people and vehicles in that location at that time is small and finite. Most likely the person involved and/or the owner or driver of the vehicle has been interviewed by SFR and given an account of their whereabouts at the time.

Clearly, someone has deliberately lied to SFR about their whereabouts at the time of William's disappearance. Why? The only people with a reason to lie are those with something to hide. If the lie can be proven, then that person is implicated in the crime. The lie may not be enough to prove ultimate guilt in a court of law, but it is enough to prove the person knows enough, and wants to hide what they know. This may be as close as we ever get to solving the case.

 

[NRL Fan]

When You Have Eliminated the Impossible Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be the Truth - Sherlock Holmes.​

We can eliminate the impossible, and we are left with conclusions which might seem inconceivable, heinous, cruel or callous, but are nevertheless practically and certainly humanly possible.

One thing we cannot predict with any certainty is human behaviour. Nor can we always explain it adequately. People do the strangest things for no apparent reason.

I think we can say with some certainty that there has been human intervention in William's disappearance and removal from the FGM house. There is also almost certainly a vehicle involved. The person or persons involved have not come forward or confessed. Nor has the vehicle been positively identified. The number of people and vehicles in that location at that time is small and finite. Most likely the person involved and/or the owner or driver of the vehicle has been interviewed by SFR and given an account of their whereabouts at the time.

Clearly, someone has deliberately lied to SFR about their whereabouts at the time of William's disappearance. Why? The only people with a reason to lie are those with something to hide. If the lie can be proven, then that person is implicated in the crime. The lie may not be enough to prove ultimate guilt in a court of law, but it is enough to prove the person knows enough, and wants to hide what they know. This may be as close as we ever get to solving the case.

Either someone lied or the person/s involved have never been identified. I do have an issue with the motive for the FM / balcony fall coverup theory. If this did occur, why not call 000 for an ambulance ?. If the FM thought this would look bad on her record as a registered FP (weak motive IMO), would having a kid go missing in your care look better ?. And covering up the initial crime creates a lifetime of intense stress to maintain the lie. It would be much better and easier to call 000 and deal with the consequences of what is an accident. If the theory is that the FM deliberately killed WT then why ?. There is no evidence they wanted to hand him back and lots of evidence to the contrary. If I had to lean on any theory, it would be that there is a POI that has been overlooked or not identified. GJ is probably the most experienced detective in the country and he eliminated SDR as a suspect, but only after thoroughly investigating her and JS and the subsequent intense forensic search yielded nothing. His focus drifted to the neighbours because it's a cul-der-sac and the chances of an opportune snatching by someone driving past is almost zero in that location. I did have a personal theory (one of many) years ago that someone might have been looking at buying real estate causing them to drive past. Open houses usually start around 10:00am and September is peak real estate period, so it's possible someone drove to the end of the street to bide time before a nearby inspection and WT mistook the vehicle for his dad returning and created an easy snatch situation. If this happened, then it's possible that local real estate agents have a name recorded in a book somewhere which was overlooked.

In terms of direct evidence in this case, the strongest we have is the dying confessions of Ray Porter which cannot be eliminated. His claim that he drove WT 300 km north with his best mate (Frank Abbott ?) cannot be verified nor dismissed.

 

[Underarrest_]

I tend to agree - and I’ll now beg pardon to tell a little story of some years ago. My 3-4 yr old grandson living in a small unit complex. Next door child was poss 4 yrs older & fostered. The kids were playing out front & suddenly he was missing; we were calling him, looking everywhere, inside & around both abodes, rattling boxes they’d been playing with, cross questioning her, having her look in places, telling him the game was over, searching again all over, and generally getting quite frantic (looking back it was a reasonably short amount of time, I doubt 1/2 hour) Eventually I said to my daughter “That’s it, I’m calling the Police” …. and guess what - out of one of the boxes that I’d already checked, popped this mischievous little boy !! Thank the Lord !
Just highlighting ‘kids’, but that no way could I have waited 2 hours before sounding the alarm & getting help.
Having said that, our search area then was limited.

So ok, I’m now trying to change the location to a neighbourhood house block.

FM did go up the street looking.
She noticed Annemarie Sharpley & asked if she’d seen William. Annemarie then went to Paul Savage’s place. I believe Paul went off looking for him.
Another neighbour Lydene Heslop put notice on Facebook.
I actually find it strange that all the neighbours’ doors weren't knocked on & that they weren’t roped into an immediate search at that early stage.
FM said she hadn’t seen the ‘home in 5’ text at that stage so she wouldn’t have been racing back to meet him surely. … and how come he didn’t meet her on the road on his way home.

It would be helpful to know exactly what time FM went for the drive and if the semi driver was found/interviewed and whether they’ve determined if/what was thrown out of the car.
I can understand that the FM would go for a quick drive to make sure he hasn’t wandered off down the road but it would have been helpful if the public knew what the FM (as well as the FF given he was away for some hours) looked like, as there might be people who would have other information based on sightings.

 

[Underarrest_]

Either someone lied or the person/s involved have never been identified. I do have an issue with the motive for the FM / balcony fall coverup theory. If this did occur, why not call 000 for an ambulance ?. If the FM thought this would look bad on her record as a registered FP (weak motive IMO), would having a kid go missing in your care look better ?. And covering up the initial crime creates a lifetime of intense stress to maintain the lie. It would be much better and easier to call 000 and deal with the consequences of what is an accident. If the theory is that the FM deliberately killed WT then why ?. There is no evidence they wanted to hand him back and lots of evidence to the contrary. If I had to lean on any theory, it would be that there is a POI that has been overlooked or not identified. GJ is probably the most experienced detective in the country and he eliminated SDR as a suspect, but only after thoroughly investigating her and JS and the subsequent intense forensic search yielded nothing. His focus drifted to the neighbours because it's a cul-der-sac and the chances of an opportune snatching by someone driving past is almost zero in that location. I did have a personal theory (one of many) years ago that someone might have been looking at buying real estate causing them to drive past. Open houses usually start around 10:00am and September is peak real estate period, so it's possible someone drove to the end of the street to bide time before a nearby inspection and WT mistook the vehicle for his dad returning and created an easy snatch situation. If this happened, then it's possible that local real estate agents have a name recorded in a book somewhere which was overlooked.

In terms of direct evidence in this case, the strongest we have is the dying confessions of Ray Porter which cannot be eliminated. His claim that he drove WT 300 km north with his best mate (Frank Abbott ?) cannot be verified nor dismissed.

I agree about the FM and a motive to cover it up. People do strange things to protect themselves but covering something up and just totally disregarding and dumping a little human life, someone you had intentions to take care of for the rest of his young life, doesn’t make sense to me. Although, still possible.
A chance opportunity would be slim although also still possible. More possible if William had got as far as the road.
I keep coming back to who knew the family were there that weekend (although limited, there were people who knew) and who they might have told. The FP and children showing up the night before is less relevant if people were aware they were going to be there sometime in coming days and or knew they were already there at a certain time that morning. This all unravelled within a few hours of daylight.

 

[31550]

In terms of direct evidence in this case, the strongest we have is the dying confessions of Ray Porter which cannot be eliminated. His claim that he drove WT 300 km north with his best mate (Frank Abbott ?) cannot be verified nor dismissed.

The TV documentary (which was later pulled) had stills from CCTV evidence supporting the fact that the drive happened when he said it did. Vehicle is an exact match.
Of course, we have no way of knowing if the alleged boy even existed, let alone that it was William.

 

[Underarrest_]

When You Have Eliminated the Impossible Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be the Truth - Sherlock Holmes.​

We can eliminate the impossible, and we are left with conclusions which might seem inconceivable, heinous, cruel or callous, but are nevertheless practically and certainly humanly possible.

One thing we cannot predict with any certainty is human behaviour. Nor can we always explain it adequately. People do the strangest things for no apparent reason.

I think we can say with some certainty that there has been human intervention in William's disappearance and removal from the FGM house. There is also almost certainly a vehicle involved. The person or persons involved have not come forward or confessed. Nor has the vehicle been positively identified. The number of people and vehicles in that location at that time is small and finite. Most likely the person involved and/or the owner or driver of the vehicle has been interviewed by SFR and given an account of their whereabouts at the time.

Clearly, someone has deliberately lied to SFR about their whereabouts at the time of William's disappearance. Why? The only people with a reason to lie are those with something to hide. If the lie can be proven, then that person is implicated in the crime. The lie may not be enough to prove ultimate guilt in a court of law, but it is enough to prove the person knows enough, and wants to hide what they know. This may be as close as we ever get to solving the case.

Keeping in mind that the police say they have new evidence pointing to FM, I find it intriguing that the two cars identified by FM, (although could be a lie or even a false memory,)
are the same type of cars (model and colour) owned by two people who are known to each other
and also have connections to both sides of the families.
(Just clarifying I’m not suggesting the biological parents have anything to do with this, but rather, the circle of connections.)

 

[NRL Fan]

The TV documentary (which was later pulled) had stills from CCTV evidence supporting the fact that the drive happened when he said it did. Vehicle is an exact match.
Of course, we have no way of knowing if the alleged boy even existed, let alone that it was William.

His vehicle was captured by the highway cameras at Port Macquarie and Kew, but nowhere else, so we're left wondering just how far north they travelled. It would be interesting to get access to the times the car passed both cameras.

"in the two days after William vanished, Porter's car was recorded passing the Kew southbound camera on the morning of September 13, 2014, and the north- and south-bound cameras at Port Macquarie, the next day."

William Tyrrell inquest: Nurse's statement about patient's confession

This is the bombshell statement a nurse made to the inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance, telling how a dying man made a chilling confession with his head rested on her shoulder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rrell-Bombshell-documents-car-ride-south.html

 

[31550]

Keeping in mind that the police say they have new evidence pointing to FM, I find it intriguing that the two cars identified by FM, (although could be a lie or even a false memory,)
are the same type of cars (model and colour) owned by two people who are known to each other
and also have connections to both sides of the families.
(Just clarifying I’m not suggesting the biological parents have anything to do with this, but rather, the circle of connections.)

Did the police really say that? I haven't seen any police statement to that effect in the last year or more. Or is the 'new' evidence not so 'new’?

 

[Underarrest_]

Did the police really say that? I haven't seen any police statement to that effect in the last year or more. Or is the 'new' evidence not so 'new’?

You’re right, is there new evidence? Or are they going on what they already had? And why no charges then and even now?

 

[31550]

You’re right, is there new evidence? Or are they going on what they already had? And why no charges then and even now?

I don't know. But I haven't seen anything from the police. All indications support my fear that they now just want to close (not solve, just close) this case as quickly as possible.

 

[Underarrest_]

I don't know. But I haven't seen anything from the police. All indications support my fear that they now just want to close (not solve, just close) this case as quickly as possible.

I agree, if police have evidence FM is the offender, all good, but if not, they need to keep an open mind.

 

[js47]

It would be very interesting to know if the police took an itemised account of the conversation of FM and FGM while William was playing and after he went around the corner. I wonder how long each topic took. FGM was irritated that William was taking over and the FM defended him as just being a boy. I think William may have run around the corner after the photo and the FGM talked about everything she needed to say time passed more than 5 minutes. William may have been forgotten.

 

[js47]

William did not have to be taken by a car he could have been carried up the track or put on a push bike.