Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Lady O]

But we are talking about a FM with no child-rearing experience. With a documented history of placing a 2YO child in an inappropriate outdoor time-out situation, and had been advised not to do this by the care agency. With a criminal conviction for assault on another young child.
If William ran away or climbed on the furniture and fell in an attempt to escape from physical punishment, that's no accident. If he was left unsupervised on an obviously dangerous balcony, that's not accident. If someone pushed him, that's no accident. We are talking about a boy who was frustrated with the morning's activities, did not want to participate, and had a history of physically fighting with his sister, and biting his FM.
FM had a hand injury incurred around the same time. Could this be a defensive wound?
And, as you say, if he genuinely and innocently 'accidentally' fell from the balcony, then most likely the carers would have dialled 000 immediately. All the circumstantial evidence suggests this was no innocent accident.

I agree. I wonder if they had discussed the dangers of FGM's house with the balcony and open area.

If WT did fall from the balcony and was killed instantly, and if FM immediately decided to "cover up" the accident, the motivation may not have been due to her fear of losing LT, but rather her fear of losing FF?

A couple that age with no children. Perhaps FF was the one who really wanted kids and apparently WT and FF were very close. FM struggled to relate to WT, and as we have seen subsequently, struggled with raising LT as well. She doesn't seem a likely candidate to have primary care of young children.

It might be the reason she failed to phone FF as soon as WT went 'missing' as you would have expected if it seemed he had wandered off or even suspected of having been abducted. I've always thought at her saying to FF on his return "do you have William?", was a way of shifting the blame and distancing herself from responsibility.

I really think that it was intended that WT be found quite quickly and his death attributed to an anonymous, murderous child abuser. The case all wrapped up by the end of the day, "Mummy and Daddy" very sad and receiving lots of sympathy.

 

[Underarrest_]

I agree. I wonder if they had discussed the dangers of FGM's house with the balcony and open area.

If WT did fall from the balcony and was killed instantly, and if FM immediately decided to "cover up" the accident, the motivation may not have been due to her fear of losing LT, but rather her fear of losing FF?

A couple that age with no children. Perhaps FF was the one who really wanted kids and apparently WT and FF were very close. FM struggled to relate to WT, and as we have seen subsequently, struggled with raising LT as well. She doesn't seem a likely candidate to have primary care of young children.

It might be the reason she failed to phone FF as soon as WT went 'missing' as you would have expected if it seemed he had wandered off or even suspected of having been abducted. I've always thought at her saying to FF on his return "do you have William?", was a way of shifting the blame and distancing herself from responsibility.

I really think that it was intended that WT be found quite quickly and his death attributed to an anonymous, murderous child abuser. The case all wrapped up by the end of the day, "Mummy and Daddy" very sad and receiving lots of sympathy.

But FM would be the first person they looked at because she was the last person with William and went for a drive in broad daylight and then told police, and an autopsy/DNA probably would have led them to the FM.

 

[Lady O]

But FM would be the first person they looked at because she was the last person with William and went for a drive in broad daylight and then told police, and an autopsy/DNA probably would have led them to the FM.

Was she??

 

[Underarrest_]

Was she??

You’re comment was that it was intended William was found quickly. Why would she hope that they would find him straight away when evidence could lead them straight back to her. Not to mention FM knew there was a witness (the semi trailer fellow) but she continued to dispose of William in that area where she was seen.

 

[js47]

A lot of marriages crumble under the amount of pressure the FP have endured. I think the FM needs reassurance constantly. (Holding hands) for example. Having to justify her parenting skills with FGM (IMO). The agency watching what she does with 2year olds etc. Having a communication team advising her. She should have been strong enough to say NO to other children being placed with her. What was wrong with the agency? They are an organisation with a lot of resources behind them. And a church one at that where is their compassion? FM was well out of her depth. I don’t think FM learnt any parenting skills from her Mum. Sadly the out come was the miss treatment of of L. FF had had it. I ask myself WHY was he still there?

 

[js47]

Was she??

No she wasn’t L and FGM were there too.

 

[Underarrest_]

A lot of marriages crumble under the amount of pressure the FP have endured. I think the FM needs reassurance constantly. (Holding hands) for example. Having to justify her parenting skills with FGM (IMO). The agency watching what she does with 2year olds etc. Having a communication team advising her. She should have been strong enough to say NO to other children being placed with her. What was wrong with the agency? They are an organisation with a lot of resources behind them. And a church one at that where is their compassion? FM was well out of her depth. I don’t think FM learnt any parenting skills from her Mum. Sadly the out come was the miss treatment of of L. FF had had it. I ask myself WHY was he still there?

The problem is there’s not enough foster carers for the amount of children who go into care and the agencies are under resourced. Some officers have had a caseload of up to 50 families at one time. It’s unacceptable.

 

[Lady O]

You’re comment was that it was intended William was found quickly. Why would she hope that they would find him straight away when evidence could lead them straight back to her. Not to mention FM knew there was a witness (the semi trailer fellow) but she continued to dispose of William in that area where she was seen.

Your comments seem centred on asking others to explain things to you. If you don't agree, scroll on by.

 

[Wallace52]

Wonder if William decided to have a little practice crashing his bike by himself? While FM and FGM were busy making tea and chatting?

Thats a great theory.

Michelle White didn't arrive on the day William disappeared. Not sure exactly when, but I think it was several days later.
There doesn't seem to have been any washing on the line on the day William disappeared. FGM was waiting for Spedding to repair the W/M, so she wouldn't have had anything. FM rang Spedding about the W/M at 9am, so she hadn't done any washing at 9am, and was unlikely to have done washing instead of "looking for William".

I’ve heard whispers that there was washing hung after W went missing, on the day that he went missing.

But that may just be conjecture.

 

[Wallace52]

Your comments seem centred on asking others to explain things to you. If you don't agree, scroll on by.

Exactly. It’s annoying when new users come on here and make demands on other users which are very unnecessary and tiresome.

 

[truecrimepath]

The problem is there’s not enough foster carers for the amount of children who go into care and the agencies are under resourced. Some officers have had a caseload of up to 50 families at one time. It’s unacceptable.

This maybe off thread but 'blame it on the baby bonus'. There was a big increase in births but not in well functioning families. This has lead to not only large numbers of children in care, but an increase juvenile crime years after their birth. There is a very good book called 'Freakanomics' that largely predicts this would be the case.

 

[Wallace52]

The problem is there’s not enough foster carers for the amount of children who go into care and the agencies are under resourced. Some officers have had a caseload of up to 50 families at one time. It’s unacceptable.

Where’s your evidence that some officers have had a caseload of up to 50 families at one time? How do you know this and is there a document to back up your assertion that you can link?

 

[Underarrest_]

Your comments seem centred on asking others to explain things to you. If you don't agree, scroll on by.

I’m trying to see this from all possibilities as seen in previous posts. It was a simple question but you don’t have to answer.
You can also scroll on.

 

[Underarrest_]

Where’s your evidence that some officers have had a caseload of up to 50 families at one time? How do you know this and is there a document to back up your assertion that you can link?

It’s in court documents from children who have died in care. I also know this from personal experience.

 

[Wallace52]

If WT did fall from the balcony and was killed instantly, and if FM immediately decided to "cover up" the accident, the motivation may not have been due to her fear of losing LT, but rather her fear of losing FF?

Maybe a fear of wrecking or sabotaging the foster grandmas upcoming house sale plans, and the FGM being very mad a the FM for doing so.

I would say that the FM was more scared of what the FGM would have thought than:

*Losing L
*Losing FF
*Going to jail

I think the priority would have been to preserve the reputation of the house at 48 B Drive so that it could be sold as planned.

Just my opinion.

To add; FM did say that her depression was triggered when her mother (the FGM) died and the circumstances around her mother before she died, with William disappearing et al. <paraphrased, will look for the mental health defence link later >.

 

[Wallace52]

It’s in court documents from children who have died in care. I also know this from personal experience.

Your expertise then will be really useful on this thread, Underarrest_ . Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

From day one the police were disarmed by the fact that the report was early. Unusual for guilty people. At the same time the FPs chose to truncate the time to report contrary to average (despite there being multiple possible hiding places in surrounds) which suggests to me that they knew his fate. They then allegedly lied about things promoting an abduction

• The 2 cars
• The suspicious U turn man
• The bike riding which FGM had no recollection of even though FM said she was there.That of course strengthens the abductor avenue because there are witnesses to U turn man
• The story he's not a wanderer.
• The lie in plain site to go 1.3 klm looking for WT when supposedly he was left unattended only 5 minutes

FGM Freudian slip is indicative. "Bouncing out of his skull" So too the lie about 8 to 9..(left before 8 go to chemist which happens to open at 9). She was the one who told him the opening time the night before. She was obsessive to defend he, the FF, wasn't there and had left before 8. CCTV captured him only at 8.45..Got the number sitting up to breakfast wrong then self corrected. What witness statement people say is seepage of truth.

What counters the entirety of that is what neighbours heard children playing before avd just after 9. Perhaps though it was a single child with FM who was keeping FD busy whilst he was being taken to hiding place.

What then explains the 1.3 klm trip? Perhaps something remained at the house that was Incriminating that needed to be thrown that she only realised before she did the abduction scam

 

[31550]

You’re comment was that it was intended William was found quickly. Why would she hope that they would find him straight away when evidence could lead them straight back to her. Not to mention FM knew there was a witness (the semi trailer fellow) but she continued to dispose of William in that area where she was seen.

Possibly she tried to stage an accident elsewhere, with the story that William had wandered off and innocently came to grief. It's possible she did this and a third party subsequently moved William. Why would someone else move him? Perhaps to avoid being implicated themself?
Sem-trailer fellow has never been identified. Any semi-trailer owners along BC Rd could be easily identified by police. The road goes nowhere except to a few identifiable properties. Would not take long for police to interview all the owners / residents and ask if they had any deliveries which involved a semi-trailer or large truck on that morning. There are not that many in the area. People don't drive semi-trailers around unless there is a reason. I am skeptical that semi-trailer guy exists.
I do think it possible she expected him to be found - why else describe the freckle on the top of his head to the 000 operator? It wasn't needed to identify him. He was a 3YO boy wearing a Spiderman suit FFS!

 

[31550]

From day one the police were disarmed by the fact that the report was early. Unusual for guilty people. At the same time the FPs chose to truncate the time to report contrary to average (despite there being multiple possible hiding places in surrounds) which suggests to me that they knew his fate. They then allegedly lied about things promoting an abduction

• The 2 cars
• The suspicious U turn man
• The bike riding which FGM had no recollection of even though FM said she was there.That of course strengthens the abductor avenue because there are witnesses to U turn man
• The story he's not a wanderer.
• The lie in plain site to go 1.3 klm looking for WT when supposedly he was left unattended only 5 minutes

FGM Freudian slip is indicative. "Bouncing out of his skull" So too the lie about 8 to 9..(left before 8 go to chemist which happens to open at 9). She was the one who told him the opening time the night before. She was obsessive to defend he, the FF, wasn't there and had left before 8. CCTV captured him only at 8.45..Got the number sitting up to breakfast wrong then self corrected. What witness statement people say is seepage of truth.

What counters the entirety of that is what neighbours heard children playing before avd just after 9. Perhaps though it was a single child with FM who was keeping FD busy whilst he was being taken to hiding place.

What then explains the 1.3 klm trip? Perhaps something remained at the house that was Incriminating that needed to be thrown that she only realised before she did the abduction scam

We don't know the trip was only 1.3km. She had time to go much further, and in any direction, probably any time between 10am and 10:30am.
Note that police came from Kendall and took only 10 minutes to get there.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

We don't know the trip was only 1.3km. She had time to go much further, and in any direction, probably any time between 10am and 10:30am.
Note that police came from Kendall and took only 10 minutes to get there.

Ok..I'm working off the assumption that somehow (phone ping) they identified Cob. & Co / BC Rd intersection as Incriminating. But you are right. We don't know that

 

[Wallace52]

Ok..I'm working off the assumption that somehow (phone ping) they identified Cob. & Co / BC Rd intersection as Incriminating. But you are right. We don't know that

I think that’s a reasonable assumption.

 

[Underarrest_]

Possibly she tried to stage an accident elsewhere, with the story that William had wandered off and innocently came to grief. It's possible she did this and a third party subsequently moved William. Why would someone else move him? Perhaps to avoid being implicated themself?
Sem-trailer fellow has never been identified. Any semi-trailer owners along BC Rd could be easily identified by police. The road goes nowhere except to a few identifiable properties. Would not take long for police to interview all the owners / residents and ask if they had any deliveries which involved a semi-trailer or large truck on that morning. There are not that many in the area. People don't drive semi-trailers around unless there is a reason. I am skeptical that semi-trailer guy exists.
I do think it possible she expected him to be found - why else describe the freckle on the top of his head to the 000 operator? It wasn't needed to identify him. He was a 3YO boy wearing a Spiderman suit FFS!

Yes FM could have staged it so it looked like William had just wandered off and come to grief but (and this is just my questioning in my head) say for instance this was after William fell from a balcony) an autopsy would have found this which would be incriminating for the FM, (but he might have died from other injuries which wouldn’t so much incriminate her) or maybe she wasn’t thinking that far ahead.
The semi trailer driver is a mystery.
Possibly a made up witness that she was looking for William.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think that’s a reasonable assumption.

In addition, she has already indicated to police she had travelled to the riding school and turned around because it was too far. Once again the practice of making a lie hide in plain sight

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Here is a person seemingly explaining the phenomenon I experienced yesterday with two shadows in opposing directions off the same cars on an overcast day..Interesting. I'll do more work see if I can find a science paper/ video

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I agree. I wonder if they had discussed the dangers of FGM's house with the balcony and open area.

If WT did fall from the balcony and was killed instantly, and if FM immediately decided to "cover up" the accident, the motivation may not have been due to her fear of losing LT, but rather her fear of losing FF?

A couple that age with no children. Perhaps FF was the one who really wanted kids and apparently WT and FF were very close. FM struggled to relate to WT, and as we have seen subsequently, struggled with raising LT as well. She doesn't seem a likely candidate to have primary care of young children.

It might be the reason she failed to phone FF as soon as WT went 'missing' as you would have expected if it seemed he had wandered off or even suspected of having been abducted. I've always thought at her saying to FF on his return "do you have William?", was a way of shifting the blame and distancing herself from responsibility.

I really think that it was intended that WT be found quite quickly and his death attributed to an anonymous, murderous child abuser. The case all wrapped up by the end of the day, "Mummy and Daddy" very sad and receiving lots of sympathy.

Excellent observations imo.