Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Conclusion:

Photos can have EXIF edits which are difficult if not impossible to detect.Bfew, TCP, My links, Awakening, other thread endorsements.

The question remains NOW was 48 minutes enough time to do all that was required in the state she was likely in.

If it was legitimately 48 minutes with 16 min logistically gone to complete tasks ( see my prior post) leaves 32 min to deal with the death. Problematic if you ask me.

If there is no cadaver indications at Cobb & co nor FGM car you can safely conclude that was earlier still and taken further away. The actual time could then be anytime after the photo and allow time for round trip.

Can we rely on what neighbours heard children playing at or around 9? Is there any testimony raising concerns about those statements? TCP says that PS was cognitively compromised.....possibly true. Can we dismiss it though?

 

[LRitz]

Conclusion:

Photos can have EXIF edits which are difficult if not impossible to detect.Bfew, TCP, My links, Awakening, other thread endorsements.

The question remains NOW was 48 minutes enough time to do all that was required in the state she was likely in.

If it was legitimately 48 minutes with 16 min logistically gone to complete tasks ( see my prior post) leaves 32 min to deal with the death. Problematic if you ask me.

If there is no cadaver indications at Cobb & co nor FGM car you can safely conclude that was earlier still and taken further away. The actual time could then be anytime after the photo and allow time for round trip.

Can we rely on what neighbours heard children playing at or around 9? Is there any testimony raising concerns about those statements? TCP says that PS was cognitively compromised.....possibly true. Can we dismiss it though?

Do you think the Coroners court is a short schedule because they have nothing new? Or could there be something new and explosive that quickly leads to charges?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Do you think the Coroners court is a short schedule because they have nothing new? Or could there be something new and explosive that quickly leads to charges?

Hard to say. I'm thinking a witness exists that saw FM driving near Cobb & co..if there is then we should get whatever was found there. Nothing then nothing.. If something the detail. i's possible they follow the path of C Dawson where coroner findings then became the platform for charges..

 

[31550]

This is completely correct. No IT expert can verify when a photo was taken. The problem with EXIF on JPEG files is that it is completely changeable and can't be verified especially when moved from one device to another. This is why I concentrate on physical features that cannot easily be changed by the user. If the police and coroner are relying on IT experts to sort this out then there is no hope for the inquest! It smacks of incompetency. Members on this forum who believe they can are deluded.

So you think that SFR only used 'IT experts' to analyse the camera and photographs and not forensic scientists who would have looked at light and shadow, camera angles, perspective etc. etc. as welll as physical examination of the camera itself, and the SD card to see if it had been handled by humans, DNA evidence if it existed and other things like geospatial measurements, meteorological and astronomical analysis to determine the sun position and cloud cover etc. etc ..? It's not just a matter of fiddling EXIF data on a few digital files - all the other stuff has to be consistent with what is being used as evidence. They have had 10 years during which time SFR has had 3 different leaders, and a further forensic analysis was directed by the coroner. It wasn't a matter of some IT boffin having a quick squizz and giving a thumbs up.

 

[LRitz]

.....The fact that the FF slept with him and not his sister raised this concern with me.

Allegedly. This is not a fact.
We do not know where William slept. Who do you believe ? The "which way would i have gone" FGM or the FPs. For all we know William was put on the floor in the laundry.

 

[Kora]

Nov 2021 interview with Brittany Chain, last paragraph.


'I may be an old man, but I'm not a blind man,' Mr Chapman, who is due to turn 83 next month, laughed.

'I'm still absolutely certain it was him. September 12 2014 is a day I will never forget.'

The retiree, who was born and raised in Kendall, told an inquest into William's disappearance and presumed death he was in the back seat of the gold or brown Landcruiser when it sped past his home about 10.45am the morning he vanished.

A second car was a short distance behind.

'The front of the car was by the gravel on the edge of the tarp,' a police walkthrough video shows Mr Chapman telling an officer.

In the seven years since William's disappearance, Mr Chapman claims he's 'never seen either car again'.

In a town as small as Kendall, home to just 1,141 residents, that is strange in and of itself.

'Everybody knows everybody here,' he said. 'I would've seen the cars again [if it was unrelated].'

If either car drove down his quiet street today, Mr Chapman is still confident he'd be able to identify them.

He recalled seeing the face of a boy in the back seat of the Landcruiser, unrestrained but not distressed, while windows in the second car were too tinted to see inside.

Mr Chapman shared this information with police years after he vanished, initially under the impression police were doing the rounds to speak with locals and would get to him when they had a chance.

In total, he gave detectives three detailed interviews sharing what he saw and a further two at a coronial inquiry in 2019.

Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame said she could not make a finding on the relevance of Mr Chapman's information or determine whether it was in fact William in the back seat.

Regardless of whether his testimony has in any way helped police, Mr Chapman is of the belief William's remains will not be found in the bush behind his late foster grandmother's home.

I agree IMO and someone should look at the foundations of the FPs new house...

 

[truecrimepath]

Careful TCP if you are stepping above your pay grade.
The middle meningeal artery MMA in an adult is often stuck to the temporal bone. so when there is a temporal fracture the MMA is severed and leads to extradural. Adult or young adult problem.

In a child it is not yet incorporated or stuck to temporal bone so unusual for it to be torn with a # temporal bone.

In old people they get an extradural.

I am not. I have written so that people can look it up. In children it's more often venous but they can get arterial ones as well. You meant sub dural for older people? I Remember when I was a first year resident on a neurosurgical term having to open a case on a 9 year old hit with a cricket ball as the real neurosurgeons were stuck on other cases. This kid had a lucid interval. I had previously performed neurosurgical work on cats putting electrodes in their brains. Had done enough assisting. Harrowing experience though for me. I was glad when the boss arrived. I was definitely above my pay grade that day.

 

[Wallace52]

Do you think the Coroners court is a short schedule because they have nothing new? Or could there be something new and explosive that quickly leads to charges?

I am guessing nothing new??

 

[Wallace52]

I agree IMO and someone should look at the foundations of the FPs new house...

Do you mean the one they renovated before they moved??

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So you think that SFR only used 'IT experts' to analyse the camera and photographs and not forensic scientists who would have looked at light and shadow, camera angles, perspective etc. etc. as welll as physical examination of the camera itself, and the SD card to see if it had been handled by humans, DNA evidence if it existed and other things like geospatial measurements, meteorological and astronomical analysis to determine the sun position and cloud cover etc. etc ..? It's not just a matter of fiddling EXIF data on a few digital files - all the other stuff has to be consistent with what is being used as evidence. They have had 10 years during which time SFR has had 3 different leaders, and a further forensic analysis was directed by the coroner. It wasn't a matter of some IT boffin having a quick squizz and giving a thumbs up.

You assume that whatever they did proved 9.37 to be correct and on the basis solely of verandah photos. There is a world where they apply their best endeavour to decipher those photos and fail to distinguish between 9.37 and 7.39 say in which case we don't know.

 

[31550]

What I find interesting about this photo is it is in a format that you see when it has had its EXIF data removed. Created time and corrected time is all that appears when this is done and moved to another device.

That is because none of us are actually looking directly at the actual image file from the SD card of the camera. We would need the camera and card in our possession to do that. What we are seeing is a printout taken from a COPY of that image file, which, as you observed, will not have all the EXIF characteristics of the original digital image.

 

[31550]

You assume that whatever they did proved 9.37 to be correct and on the basis solely of verandah photos. There is a world where they apply their best endeavour to decipher those photos and fail to distinguish between 9.37 and 7.39 say in which case we don't know.

No I assume they were simply unable to prove that they weren't taken at 9:37. This should be confirmed at the coronial inquest, even if by default.

 

[BFew]

I assume they were simply unable to prove that they weren't taken at 9:37.

Likewise, they probably can't prove that they were taken at 9:37am either.

 

[Wallace52]

Why was the foster mother bothered about the police turning their investigation on her circa October 2021, when she knew she hadn’t done anything wrong?
She’s claimed she was under so much pressure, kicking the foster child, hitting her with a wooden spoon, intimidating her - but why was the FM so stressed about the change in police focus?

“In a secretly taped conversation on October 20, 2021, the foster mother says: 'They are trying to get me on stuff. They are doing that because they f***ed it up'.”
<Candace Sutton for DMA>

William Tyrrell's foster mum says police botched missing toddler case

William Tyrrell's foster mother has claimed she was under scrutiny the disappearance of her missing toddler foster son because police had botched up investigations into the boy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Lawyers for William Tyrrell's foster mother, known by the court as SD, also accused police of using two child assaults she committed to pressure her into giving away the location of the missing toddlers' body.”

Using the assaults to pressure her into giving away the location of the missing toddler’s body? How is that possible if SD doesn’t know where William’s body is?

She’s said she’s got nothing to do with it, doesn’t know where William is, is not involved with it.

So, if you’re innocent, why are you so distraught? Why so stressed? Surely if you’ve done nothing wrong you would just cooperate with police to the best of your ability, carrying the blessed assurance of innocence?

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrells-foster-mother-faces-fresh-common-assault-charge/news-story/e33710d1ba3dbf5eaf71f5bbc74b2008?amp

 

[BFew]

So, if you’re innocent, why are you so distraught? Why so stressed? Surely if you’ve done nothing wrong you would just cooperate with police to the best of your ability, carrying the blessed assurance of innocence?

You really haven't given the above sentence much thought have you.

For starters, her career and career/employment prospects after being named as the only POI/Suspect?

 

[31550]

Likewise, they probably can't prove that they were taken at 9:37am either.

Do they need to?

 

[Wallace52]

You really haven't given the above sentence much thought have you.

For starters, her career and career/employment prospects after being named as the only POI/Suspect?

I take your point. It’s a very high profile case. It’s inherently going to be a bit stressful. But she was stressed to the point where she was hurting children, in her own words. How stressed does one have to be to get to that point where they harm a child?

And let’s turn to her career. Her name is under suppression so her future employers won’t know who she is, that she was William’s foster mother. That suppression order has been enforced very strictly, and I’ve heard of detectives knocking on doors of people that have written her name in a public forum. It’s happened many times.

So how is it going to impact her future work?

She had a job is 2021. It was steady employment. Her career and job was mostly as I understand it to be “fine” even after she was named as the POI.

It was only when she was convicted of the assaults and intimidation against the foster child that the work issue became a problem. AFAIK

As I understand, she was able to work from home and then also she was on leave for a while…. It wasn’t going to be a major issue unless she was convicted.

AFAIK

 

[31550]

Her career was fine even after she was named as the POI. AFAIK.

It was only when she was convicted of the assaults and intimidation against the foster child that the work issue became a problem.

As I understand, she was able to work from home and then also she was on leave for a while…. It wasn’t going to be a major issue unless she was convicted.

AFAIK

There are some positions one can not legally hold with a criminal conviction.
But I think image and social standing is quite important to the FM. She considers herself above suspicion.

 

[Wallace52]

There are some positions one can not legally hold with a criminal conviction.
But I think image and social standing is quite important to the FM. She considers herself above suspicion.

Right you are, 31550 .

Well she is very fortunate indeed to have her name and address and the names and addresses of every single family member covered in her suppression order.

It’s a very wide order. Presumably her social standing should have been fine - but like any criminal, some people will judge a person on what crimes they have committed. Not every criminal who hurts children has the benefit of a suppression order protecting them.

When I listened to Box’s interview of the Lane Cove Ladies group member and friend Yvette Elliott, Yvette said that their friendship group was never the same after William went missing.

So from what I can see, the foster mother’s social life has been impacted from September 2014 onwards, and the POI focus didn’t really come onto her in a public way until what - November 2021?

“One of those kids was William Tyrrell.”

“That was the happy days.”

BOX: “Yeah, it looks like it.”

ELLIOTT: “You just wonder what would we all be doing now if it wasn't for what happened.”

BOX: “Are you suggesting that what happened to William may have fractured that group?”

ELLIOTT: “Oh, absolutely. Everything regarding our relationship changed.”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Foster Parents | 3, 21 Oct 2024


BOX: “Finishing our interview, I turn off the microphone. And then Yvette tells me how, after saying goodbye to the detectives, she phoned her old friend, William's foster mother, saying, I've just been interviewed by the police, and it was the weirdest thing.

And William's foster mother told her, another of the Lane Cove ladies had just called, saying detectives had also been asking her questions. William's foster mother told Yvette, the police were trying to throw her under the bus”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Foster Parents | 3, 21 Oct 2024


It’s very sad that the foster mother said she felt the police were trying to throw her under the bus. That must have been awful.

But you can’t be convicted of the disappearance of a child without evidence.

So they can try to throw her under the proverbial bus but that’s not going to work unless they have evidence. And if the foster mother is innocent - and she may be - then police won’t have any evidence against her, because you can’t just make evidence up. It has to be airtight, doesn’t it, in a case such as this? Especially if there’s no body.

As an innocent woman, she would have known that she has no connection to William’s disappearance, and surely she could have just waited it out, knowing that there’s literally nothing incriminating to find and knowing she’s been totally honest in all of her police interviews on the case, and hasn’t misrepresented herself or her relationship with William, and so, she would have known everything would turn out ok for her in the end.

IMO

 

[BFew]

Her name is under suppression so her future employers won’t know who she is

And references and referrals from her current/previous employer(s) and colleagues that do know her ID and connection to the William Tyrrell case?

Including the impact of having no presence on LinkedIn (as a result of the William Tyrrell case), and the red flags that signals to future employers or job agents/headhunters.

 

[Wallace52]

I am not. I have written so that people can look it up. In children it's more often venous but they can get arterial ones as well. You meant sub dural for older people? I Remember when I was a first year resident on a neurosurgical term having to open a case on a 9 year old hit with a cricket ball as the real neurosurgeons were stuck on other cases. This kid had a lucid interval. I had previously performed neurosurgical work on cats putting electrodes in their brains. Had done enough assisting. Harrowing experience though for me. I was glad when the boss arrived. I was definitely above my pay grade that day.

Mate, if you’re a neurosurgeon, what are you doing here when you could be using your time to make bank and you know, fix people’s brains?

Also, since you’re here and hanging out with us for free, what’s the stats on a 3 year old boy falling from what looks like a 3 story veranda and surviving? I’m very interested to know, not being any kind of Doctor.

 

[Wallace52]

if William got out at a rest stop on the journey to Kendall, behaved like a kid with ODD and a parent lost control and hit him in the head. He may have been put to bed alive and awake and then could have died in the night. The fact that the FF slept with him and not his sister raised this concern with me.

I think William may have had a few hits to the head in his tragically short life, and it would be interesting to know, if he had passed away, which was the blow that killed him and was it, as you said, an old injury or a few hours old injury that killed him or was it a new injury that happened on the day.

Or maybe he was abducted and he’s still alive to this day. Hell, what do I know.

I know in the FF statement that was taken in the week after W went missing, he was worried about a fall William had off a stool where he couldn’t get back up - and it makes me think FF had those fatherly instincts where he’s gone - maybe there’s been a head injury involved in William’s disappearance, maybe there’s a connection somehow to an earlier head injury.

 

[Wallace52]

Allegedly. This is not a fact.
We do not know where William slept. Who do you believe ? The "which way would i have gone" FGM or the FPs. For all we know William was put on the floor in the laundry.

That’s a very good point.

But L told the detectives who slept with who.

I believe her.

 

[31550]

It’s very sad that the foster mother said she felt the police were trying to throw her under the bus. That must have been awful.

But you can’t be convicted of the disappearance of a child without evidence.

To be thrown under a bus means to blame someone else to protect oneself or to gain some sort of advantage.
The police are not trying to protect themselves, or gain any advantage.
They are simply doing their job and investigating the case as they should have ten years ago.

If someone feels they are being 'thrown under the bus', it's an admission of some sort of liability IMO, with the implication that they were not the only party at fault, but they are taking the blame for someone else.

Maybe it's just incorrect use of the expression, or maybe the FM knows the police have something on her, and she fears they will accuse her of something more serious?

But yeah, if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. Why not just drop all the pretence? If you are totally innocent and you want the world to know, then drop all the suppression orders (as far as they affect yourself anyway), and go public and tell your whole story to the world. Let the public ask you the questions they all want answered. The more we hear this "Poor Me!" stuff, the worse you look!

 

[Awakening]

So you think that SFR only used 'IT experts' to analyse the camera and photographs and not forensic scientists who would have looked at light and shadow, camera angles, perspective etc. etc. as welll as physical examination of the camera itself, and the SD card to see if it had been handled by humans, DNA evidence if it existed and other things like geospatial measurements, meteorological and astronomical analysis to determine the sun position and cloud cover etc. etc ..? It's not just a matter of fiddling EXIF data on a few digital files - all the other stuff has to be consistent with what is being used as evidence. They have had 10 years during which time SFR has had 3 different leaders, and a further forensic analysis was directed by the coroner. It wasn't a matter of some IT boffin having a quick squizz and giving a thumbs up.

I think they likely did but were unable to come to a definitive conclusion.