Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[truecrimepath]

I think William may have had a few hits to the head in his tragically short life, and it would be interesting to know, if he had passed away, which was the blow that killed him and was it, as you said, an old injury or a few hours old injury that killed him or was it a new injury that happened on the day.

Or maybe he was abducted and he’s still alive to this day. Hell, what do I know.

I know in the FF statement that was taken in the week after W went missing, he was worried about a fall William had off a stool where he couldn’t get back up - and it makes me think FF had those fatherly instincts where he’s gone - maybe there’s been a head injury involved in William’s disappearance, maybe there’s a connection somehow to an earlier head injury.

Or he is covering up for an assault in case William is found and undergoes an autopsy.

 

[truecrimepath]

Do any locals know approx driving time between FGM’s in Benaroon Dr, and Ron Chapman’s place ? Would there be an ‘avoiding immediate main roads / Cameras etc’ route before going past Chapman’s, or would his be considered a main thoroughfare ?

My estimate was 5-10 minutes maximum.

 

[truecrimepath]

Some good posts there. There was one in particular that I would agree with in terms of the way Ron Chapman might have gone about things. I'm not sure what the policy is on quoting others from previous threads, but it was post #7179 from 31550.

If he/she objects, then just remove it.


Perhaps look at the situation from Chapman's point of view:

1. He doesn't immediately connect the sighting with William's disappearance, as it is only later that William was reported wearing the Spiderman suit.
2. He then (later that day?) hears about William's disappearance. It's a 'little boy lost, wandered into bush' scenario - hundreds of people are looking for him. He'd expect (like most of us) that William is found within a few hours. So again, his sighting of a kid in a Spiderman suit is probably not relevant. Police and searchers are busy. They'll find him.
3. William isn't found that day, but then there is media coverage where we don't see the boy's parents, but instead a "family spokesperson", and we are told "William comes from a complicated family background". So, Chapman thinks (like many of us at the time) - oh it's a custody battle - cops will find him with a family member soon enough. Again, the sighting in the car is not particularly relevant - after all, the cops would know whose doors to knock on, right? "It's a complicated family thing - OK they don't want an old man sticking his nose into it!".
4. William isn't found for a couple of days, so now the 'abduction by stranger' theory is in play and the Chapman sighting is again relevant, but by this stage, Chapman's recollection may not be as clear. He thinks about reporting it, but he hears that police are door-knocking the entire area, so he waits for the cops to knock on his door. "They must know what they are doing."
5. More days pass and nobody knocks on Chapmans door. So he tries to contact Wendy Hudson. Wendy is probably pretty busy, so he leaves a message with Kennedy. He assumes Wendy will get the message. "Why didn't they knock on my door? Maybe they know who's got him and they don't need public information any more?"
6. More time passes and Wendy either never gets the message or never follows up. By this time the cops have a suspect - Bill Spedding. Chapman assumes, "They don't need to talk to me because they've got their man - Spedding". Chapman's sighting is not so relevant.
7. More time (lots of time) passes and Spedding is cleared. But William is still not found, so the 'abduction by unknown paedophile' theory is in play. Chapman now realises his sighting could be very relevant. But by this time, his memory could be even more degraded / corrupted by media reports.
8. Eventually Ron Chapman's sighting is brought to police and public attention, but he's disregarded - "He's Old!" - "Why didn't he come forward earlier?" ...
9. Chapman starts to question himself. "Maybe I dreamed it? - why don't my family remember me talking about it?"

Tell him he's Dreaming.

 

[truecrimepath]

Maybe she got that text while driving back home & had to get a move on to be home and race down Benaroon to appear as if she was searching, prior to FF arrival home at 10.33am. … she maybe made it by the skin of her teeth & was grateful that AM was out the front.

I think FM texted FF that William was missing & I don’t think FM was at the house when FF arrived home. … because:
AM said she heard FF calling for William

FGM said he already knew when she saw him arrive
Would make sense of FM question to him when she came back to the house - ‘have you got William ?’ … and it’s all in the way the question is asked.

The 000 call was made at 10.57 am. … that’s a 44 min gap.

What did FM do in that time ? I can’t see her driving off at this stage because AM / no one said she did.
Maybe this is when she did the ‘house searching’, checking everything was in order, brain filling L and even FFM - who no doubt had a need to make a cup of tea.

FF was apparently searching everywhere. If he did suffer with anxiety & was prone to panic attacks, I can certainly see this situation as a trigger. Personally I would have been frantic !

Constable Rowley I think arrived ( was it within 5 mins of the call as he was in the area. Is that from start or f8nish of the call ?) Let's say he got there at 11.05 am. Car bonnet was warm ( did someone do a test-drive to see how long it stayed warm for - possibly depends on how fast it was driven. .. any mechanics ? Would need to be bare minimum 35 mins. )

I think it quite possible that FF may need a toilet stop, he may also have been struggling & nauseous. Hence he was found in ‘tears’ as per Rowley’s notes…. not sure this was in FF statement however, and people may question did it need to be. .. .. some are quite reserved with their words, other more verbose ( lol probably me!)

It bothers me that Rowley didn’t take statements from all 3 of them at that time ( even ask L what happened)

But texts were all deleted for some reason.

 

[LRitz]

So you think that SFR only used 'IT experts' to analyse the camera and photographs and not forensic scientists who would have looked at light and shadow, camera angles, perspective etc. etc. as welll as physical examination of the camera itself, and the SD card to see if it had been handled by humans, DNA evidence if it existed and other things like geospatial measurements, meteorological and astronomical analysis to determine the sun position and cloud cover etc. etc ..? It's not just a matter of fiddling EXIF data on a few digital files - all the other stuff has to be consistent with what is being used as evidence. They have had 10 years during which time SFR has had 3 different leaders, and a further forensic analysis was directed by the coroner. It wasn't a matter of some IT boffin having a quick squizz and giving a thumbs up.

Agree. But wasn't there some confusion at the coroners court?

From Overington's book - ..."counsel assisting the Coroner made his position clear - questioning the FM and FGM's time line as sketched out for detectives , was off-limits. Critics slammed Mr Craddock for refusing to question the veracity of the timeline..."
It then goes on to mention the "pure chance" photo of the Sunrise TV show taken 11 days before that shows the camera was on the same approximate Bali time. Gee that was lucky for them. What a coincidence.. It also says FM did not set the camera time. But we have no proof of who set the time. IMO both the FF and FM would know how to set the time on a camera.

Maybe police initially did the IT to check what time was on the camera. At this stage the FPs not major suspects. You would hope all those other details were examined. But with the discontinuity in the police investigation, could it be possible no one ever went back to check. New team comes in and has huge amount of evidence. Sees that the photo time has been looked at, and signed off by previously at the coroners court and accepts this.

 

[truecrimepath]

That’s a very good point. Also, if she’s totally innocent she could have just cooled her heels and waited for the police to move onto a new suspect and a new direction. Because she knew that she wasn’t involved and she had no knowledge of what happened, so she would have known the police would have no evidence, so why not just take a step back, think rationally - well I’m innocent and I’ll just wait it out, instead of this constant need to be one step ahead in controlling the public narrative.

That’s what’s grinding her gears, I think, it’s that she wants to be ahead of the public narrative and she can’t because the narrative has totally run away on her.

What kind of person needs to have so much control over the general population at all times? In 2021 she had it all.

She had the house, husband, nice cars, presumably she still had William’s sister under her roof (I’m assuming she got to remain with the FM after William disappeared?), she had custody and of other foster kids, a good job, she was a volunteer at the school Tuckshop, she had a Blue Card, all the things. Her and her husband went boating, the foster kids (well at least 1) rode horses, they went on nice family holidays, camping trips, skiing, like what a life. Living in a nice area of Sydney with great public schools around for the kids. They had resources like a small library of specialised school textbooks geared towards assisting the 11 year old child prepare for a selective high school, they had the respect of Michelle White and DOCS/FACS as they would regularly help the agencies out with emergency placements.

Why not just cool it and wait for this new police theory, a theory that didn’t have legs (because she knew she was innocent) to blow over?

Why did she have to lose her temper on that 11 year old foster child? It just baffles me that she wasn’t able to hold it together. And she should have been relaxed enough in herself, with a clear conscience, to lay her head down each night and know that she was a good person, she hadn’t hurt William, she was well-respected and law-abiding, she was a gentle mother, she hadn’t hurt any children, and just focus on what she had. A beautiful life.

Something is missing from this picture. IMO there was something the FM was stressed about, now that she knew the focus was turned on her. What was it?

In early September, 2021, there was an article leaked to the press there was a new person of interest and they were going to solve the case (News limited). They then rapidly contacted the police and were told that they knew nothing about it. There was a news article about their response. At the time I thought that this was a police tactic to press the buttons and observe their reaction. At the time 'I stupidly' thought the police must have worked on what I had shown them and had changed their focus. I was wrong about what I had sent them, I was right about the surveillance.

 

[LRitz]

This is completely correct. No IT expert can verify when a photo was taken. The problem with EXIF on JPEG files is that it is completely changeable and can't be verified especially when moved from one device to another. This is why I concentrate on physical features that cannot easily be changed by the user. If the police and coroner are relying on IT experts to sort this out then there is no hope for the inquest! It smacks of incompetency. Members on this forum who believe they can are deluded.

Yes. Has a digital photo ever been used as evidence in a court case? Even overseas?
I would guess that even CCTV could be questioned as 100% correct as it could be tampered with.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

But texts were all deleted for some reason.

Went for a Dr appts this am. 20 min trip home. Waited 40 min approx. Residual heat still from grill. No heat on bonnet. Turned ignition on. Heat setting ranging from 60c right through to 120c high. Mine stays at 90c when driving. When turned ignition on it was still approx 75c. Ie residual heat but lowering. After a 20 min return drive and waiting 40 min

It had reduced 15c in 40 minutes but still 15c above low

Addendum: heat barely discernible but just on grill after 1 hr. Further reduction in dash heat gauge. It seems that there is a point where it's impossible to discern heat from grill but there remains some residual heat on gauge. Seemingly just after the 1 hr mark parked in shade and left to cool

My CAR: Ford Mondeo Diesel 2013

 

[LRitz]

In early September, 2021, there was an article leaked to the press there was a new person of interest and they were going to solve the case (News limited). They then rapidly contacted the police and were told that they knew nothing about it. There was a news article about their response. At the time I thought that this was a police tactic to press the buttons and observe their reaction. At the time 'I stupidly' thought the police must have worked on what I had shown them and had changed their focus. I was wrong about what I had sent them, I was right about the surveillance.

Maybe they had read some of 31550 threads!

Edit: making jokes. But to clarify I think Williams disappearance is a serious and sad matter. As I think the forum does as well. And try to be respectful.

 

[truecrimepath]

There has been very little mention of this, but I’m sure I recall that at the end of the first stage of this inquest, police said A New Witness had come forward, someone that they were previously Not Aware of, and that person was helping with their enquiries.

Perhaps what this person had to say triggered the ‘big dig’ and search.

This witness did not do them any favours. The problem with this case is there may have been behaviours that were intentionally designed to create red herrings imho. Everything we are aware of on the 12th September, 2014 may be there to send police up a dry gully. The trip down Batar road etc. Looking for shoes on the fire trail etc. The photos, even the original photo released with the black eye. On each occasion the police have taken the bait, as have many members of this forum.

No one appears interested in the trip from McDonalds but that is where my red flags are.

 

[Wallace52]

In early September, 2021, there was an article leaked to the press there was a new person of interest and they were going to solve the case (News limited). They then rapidly contacted the police and were told that they knew nothing about it. There was a news article about their response. At the time I thought that this was a police tactic to press the buttons and observe their reaction. At the time 'I stupidly' thought the police must have worked on what I had shown them and had changed their focus. I was wrong about what I had sent them, I was right about the surveillance.

What did you send them? PM me?

 

[Wallace52]

Or he is covering up for an assault in case William is found and undergoes an autopsy.

Or that.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Went for a Dr appts this am. 20 min trip home. Waited 40 min approx. Residual heat still from grill. No heat on bonnet. Turned ignition on. Heat setting ranging from 60c right through to 120c high. Mine stays at 90c when driving. When turned ignition on it was still approx 75c. Ie residual heat but lowering. After a 20 min return drive and waiting 40 min

It had reduced 15c in 40 minutes but still 15c above low

Addendum: heat barely discernible but just on grill after 1 hr. Further reduction in dash heat gauge. It seems that there is a point where it's impossible to discern heat from grill but there remains some residual heat on gauge. Seemingly just after the 1 hr mark parked in shade and left to cool

My CAR: Ford Mondeo Diesel 2013

I'm therefore thinking that if LE could sense residual heat then the car has to have been driven in the 1 hr immediately beforehand. That means after 10.05

 

[Wallace52]

I'm therefore thinking that if LE could sense residual heat then the car has to have been driven in the 1 hr immediately beforehand. that means after 10.05

It was cold that day. I think it was driven a bit later than 10.05am but I am no expert.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

It was cold that day. I think it was driven a bit later than 10.05am but I am no expert.

Outside temperature has to affect heat dissipation surely. Currently 24°. Back then I suspect was about 15° (correction TCP says 17°) if I recall correctly. I'll check

Confirmed the rate at which heat dissipates is directly affected by outside temperature. So my 1 hour now /may be 45 min back then on cooler day? As rough gauge.

On that basis it seems likely that a car trip was made sometime after 10.15- 10.20 (guess work). What we don't know is if it was for shoes or W. An earlier trip could have happened elsewhere for W if no cadaver scent in car or at Cobb & co

FM had a hand injury possibly incurred when navigating brush at hiding site.. That site had a small creek which they drained before excavating. To place a dead body in that water climbing through thickish brush wouldn't you get wet legs? Clothes? Mud? Did she toss him? Have the strength? Mmmmm

 

[Lady O]

It was cold that day. I think it was driven a bit later than 10.05am but I am no expert.

No, it wasn't cold. It was a normal weather day in mid-September.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

No, it wasn't cold. It was a normal weather day in mid-September.

View attachment 2155023

The temperature at 10 am was 18° using the site TCP says was rubbish. His 17°..not so much it seems.

To what extent would a 6° difference mean in dissipation? Not a great deal i'd say..So perhaps as early as 10.10 for trip

 

[Underarrest_]

Went for a Dr appts this am. 20 min trip home. Waited 40 min approx. Residual heat still from grill. No heat on bonnet. Turned ignition on. Heat setting ranging from 60c right through to 120c high. Mine stays at 90c when driving. When turned ignition on it was still approx 75c. Ie residual heat but lowering. After a 20 min return drive and waiting 40 min

It had reduced 15c in 40 minutes but still 15c above low

Addendum: heat barely discernible but just on grill after 1 hr. Further reduction in dash heat gauge. It seems that there is a point where it's impossible to discern heat from grill but there remains some residual heat on gauge. Seemingly just after the 1 hr mark parked in shade and left to cool

My CAR: Ford Mondeo Diesel 2013

Did police check the engine or just the bonnet? What would happen if the bonnet was popped?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Did police check the engine or just the bonnet? What would happen if the bonnet was popped?

Unsure.

 

[LRitz]

All I can go on is what my apple devices do when you correct the time. File created time is the time that the photo is stored on the memory chip. Corrected time is the time you can adjust the time manually by the user.

Changing the phone set up from Bali to Australia will not change the time on the memory stick of a photo already stored. Changing the camera later back to Bali, could make it look falsely like a photo was taken at a later time as you have suggested. Yes it could easily be part of the deception. Note when changing time zone on a camera, it will be 2 hrs exactly. If the time is wrong by 2 minutes this would have to be changed manually.

What I find interesting about this photo is it is in a format that you see when it has had its EXIF data removed. Created time and corrected time is all that appears when this is done and moved to another device. I doubt the coroner or the people providing the photos would have done this. Usually when you initially set up a camera the first task is to set up time. The rest then follows automatically. To not see the information on this slide is a red flag to me. No great reason to remove it unless of course you had faked the photo.

I am not IT expert (I have trouble resetting car clock at start of Day light saving. Then 6 months later have forgot how to do it again). Also I have no idea of the sun angle, shadows, reflections, etc on the photo to indicate what was the time and there is no agreement amongst the forum. I think the photo was taken on 12 Sept 2014, IMO. Redflags for me about the photo:

• Well for a start there is a photo. The day William goes missing the FM has taken a photo about 1 hour before.
• The photo of the Sunrise TV show, a live streamed TV show with a clock, taken only 11 days before.
• Photos seem, IMO, to be taken in a hurry. And they are not photos of a happy family group. (There could be other photos not release)
• William seems, IMO, and as others have suggested, to be looking up at something or someone. Which gives the possibility of the FF being there. His eyes look like he is focusing on something, and he is not just gazing into the distance, IMO.

Could all be put down to coincidence. But could the photo be taken before the FF leaves. Police Wendy Hudson is shown the camera with the photos on Friday 12th by the FM. (Assume this is correct in her statement, though as pointed out was missing in her written notes). So FM would have been prepared for the possibility that police could take the camera on the 12th. If police were given the camera they might have been the first ones to download photos to another device.
Is it possible they had 2 cameras? Both the same make and model. The camera was described as not very complicated and costing about $200. If they had one older camera, Make Sony Model XYZ, and they bought exactly the same Sony Model XYZ in Bali they could have had them set to different times. On the day set the camera to 7:35 and take the photos. Then return the SD card back to the newer Bali camera that is handed to police. The EXIF would show the information and settings and time on the camera. It could show the photo was taken with a Sony XYZ. The police initially believe the camera handed over is the camera that took the photos. And the Forensic people are told this is the camera and this is the SD card, can you verify the time. Which is what they do.

 

[stormbird]

What's the source for saying that Snr Cst Rowley checked the temperature of FGM's car and the cups of tea? I can't remember seeing that in news articles or the books. Is it in his statement (if so, could someone please post it)? Did he say it at the inquest and someone was there to hear it (if so, what did he say and what was he being questioned about)? Was it in a podcast or interview? I suspect it might be just speculation, but if not, great.

 

[js47]

 

[js47]

FGM instead of a diary what about part of her will? I think FGM was very aware or her public image. Immaculately dressed hair immaculate upset beds were not made. Correcting herself.
Just something to think about.

 

[stormbird]

Do any locals know approx driving time between FGM’s in Benaroon Dr, and Ron Chapman’s place ? Would there be an ‘avoiding immediate main roads / Cameras etc’ route before going past Chapman’s, or would his be considered a main thoroughfare ?

I've never been to Kendall and don't know whether this is accurate:

- Google says the drive would take two minutes:



- of the four CCTV cameras in Kendall that we've been told about, none were between FGM's and Ron's

- the link to the traffic study includes information further up in the PDF (coloured boxes in the section "Infrastructure with DA 2006/57") estimating that of the vehicles using Batar Creek Road, 70% went via Laurel St (where Ron lived) and only 30% went via Albert St (which joins Comboyne St, where the shops are)

 

[31550]

Agree. But wasn't there some confusion at the coroners court?

Only from William's biological father via his legal counsel. The coroner indulged them by ordering further analysis to clarify the time discrepancy.

This witness did not do them any favours.

If they even existed.

FGM instead of a diary what about part of her will?

Why would that carry any more weight than the rest of the narrative? It's not direct evidence of anything.

Like most of the people here, I am hopeful that the coronial inquest, when it reconvenes, will provide some answers.
But unlike others, I don't share the cockeyed optimism that there is some "smoking gun" evidence which hasn't yet seen the light of day. Nobody has yet been charged with anything relating to the case. The coroner's court is not a place where a brief of evidence against a party or parties is assembled. That is the job of police and should have been done over the last ten years. The inquest is to make a determination as to William's cause of death, not to apportion blame or build a case against anyone.