Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[truecrimepath]

Im not a photographer but I think sheets could not give such a sharp line. Maybe reflect diffused light. So you are thinking there could be another bright light source? His left side of face is brighter than his right. There is even a small catch of light on his tongue left side.. I think the legs of the table with plant in pink pot are casting a reflection of light toward the camera, not a shadow. The wooden deck that has shiny finish (like a reflection in a lake) and this reflection is perceived by the viewer , in this case the camera.
Look up "catch light" and you will see how photographers use, or avoid, this.

Edit: or what about a small flash on a $200 camera. Maybe not enough light to influence the shadows from the natural light.

A flash would absolutely eliminate the shadows on William and his FGM legs. It is a sharp line I agree. Being so bright it has to be in sunlight. A sheet would give a sharp line. A flash would not give a sharp line. If a sheet, this absolutely rules out 7.30am as the line is in shadow as per previous photos. So you are looking at a light source bright enough to be seen, but not bright enough to eliminate shadows.

The best way of working this stuff out is to do a mini experiment. I will photograph someone in shade with a sheet in sunlight behind me. I will let you know what I find.

BTW looked at catchlight. This is like a light box imho. Essentially it would be good to know if sheets were on the line when the police got there as it would raise some interesting questions about authenticity.

It's impossible to get light inside his mouth from the pot plant (wrong direction). Note how his orbits and eyes are in shade. The sunlight is just about above him. Look at the light on his right shoulder, look at the shadow of his head on his right shoulder. The elevation of the sun is about 80 degrees. I think this is in midsummer when the sun is high. Looked at the weather for Kendall in December, 2013, 24th and 25th December were relatively cool. Is this Christmas Eve?

 

[Underarrest_]

I thought it was strange William on the shoulder but! Don’t forget there are playgrounds which he would have made a dash for.
And why did they have that big bag? Pjs then why did she forget to dress them there?

I find it strange that FP’s didn’t put pull ups on the children before they left on the trip. Or were they meant to be changing their pull ups.
The children had had a big day at day care. What was to stop them falling asleep on the first part of the trip and maybe having an accident.
If they’d forgotten, why not pull up earlier than half way, why forget again when they stopped at Maccas, why not stop at another place, (not the side of the road.)
I’m not sure how open this road is.

 

[truecrimepath]

I find it strange that FP’s didn’t put pull ups on the children before they left on the trip. Or were they meant to be changing their pull ups.
The children had had a big day at day care. What was to stop them falling asleep on the first part of the trip and maybe having an accident.
If they’d forgotten, why not pull up earlier than half way, why forget again when they stopped at Maccas, why not stop at another place, (not the side of the road.)
I’m not sure how open this road is.

The road is really dangerous unless you pull into rest area.

you can pull off near limeburners creek (Stroud) road as well.

 

[truecrimepath]

Im not a photographer but I think sheets could not give such a sharp line. Maybe reflect diffused light. So you are thinking there could be another bright light source? His left side of face is brighter than his right. There is even a small catch of light on his tongue left side.. I think the legs of the table with plant in pink pot are casting a reflection of light toward the camera, not a shadow. The wooden deck that has shiny finish (like a reflection in a lake) and this reflection is perceived by the viewer , in this case the camera.
Look up "catch light" and you will see how photographers use, or avoid, this.

Edit: or what about a small flash on a $200 camera. Maybe not enough light to influence the shadows from the natural light.

If you have time, can you look at the following image. I value your opinion.

I noticed the structural timbers reflected in window glass. If you look at the big line and the lighting, it's hard to get light here anytime except Summer as it is facing exactly east west. The light may be reflected but again suggests bright light. It's not actually possible to get reflected light here on 12th September before about 10.30am. What do you think?

 

[stormbird]

Monday 4 – Friday 8 November 2024

Inquest into the Disappearance and Suspected Death of William TYRRELL

Courtroom One at 10am

Before her Honour Magistrate Grahame, Deputy State Coroner

From Upcoming inquests, Coroners Court NSW

 

[LRitz]

A flash would absolutely eliminate the shadows on William and his FGM legs. It is a sharp line I agree. Being so bright it has to be in sunlight. A sheet would give a sharp line. A flash would not give a sharp line. If a sheet, this absolutely rules out 7.30am as the line is in shadow as per previous photos. So you are looking at a light source bright enough to be seen, but not bright enough to eliminate shadows.

The best way of working this stuff out is to do a mini experiment. I will photograph someone in shade with a sheet in sunlight behind me. I will let you know what I find.

BTW looked at catchlight. This is like a light box imho. Essentially it would be good to know if sheets were on the line when the police got there as it would raise some interesting questions about authenticity.

It's impossible to get light inside his mouth from the pot plant (wrong direction). Note how his orbits and eyes are in shade. The sunlight is just about above him. Look at the light on his right shoulder, look at the shadow of his head on his right shoulder. The elevation of the sun is about 80 degrees. I think this is in midsummer when the sun is high. Looked at the weather for Kendall in December, 2013, 24th and 25th December were relatively cool. Is this Christmas Eve?

Catch light is any light the eye catches, natural or not. There are examples of square catch lights if taken indoors and light is through a window. I didn't say the light on his tongue is from the pot plant. It corresponds to the direction of the light in his eyes.
Maybe there was some other artificial light?

 

[LRitz]

I find it strange that FP’s didn’t put pull ups on the children before they left on the trip. Or were they meant to be changing their pull ups.
The children had had a big day at day care. What was to stop them falling asleep on the first part of the trip and maybe having an accident.
If they’d forgotten, why not pull up earlier than half way, why forget again when they stopped at Maccas, why not stop at another place, (not the side of the road.)
I’m not sure how open this road is.

Sorry can't see that this adds much relevance to driving to Kendall.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

37

It all hinges on what the FD actually said to the police officer. Was she coached in what to say as a four year old? What was the question asked of her and was it asked in an open manner? I am not sure like others that this can be relied on. This is a child that was almost certainly abused and threatened.

I find the discrepancy between arriving at 9pm and 9.30pm very important. The fact that she told the story that she got to Maccas at 6.50 pm when we know she left at 6.40pm is potentially revealing. Why the deception the night before? Was she intentionally misleading or was it an honest mistake? No reason to deceive unless something happened on that trip.

They arrived at the FGM's approx 20:50 . Heather Savage confirmed this too, saying she saw the tail lights of the car pull up at the FGM's house.

They left McDonalds @ 18:40

From Google maps leaving at this time gives you the arrival time of 20:50

McDonald's - Heatherbrae to 48 Benaroon Dr

www.google.com

If everyone's times all lined up & were the same for every encounter told by them all, then, would you also be saying that was suss??

Personally I believe that would be a bigger Red flag.

 

[31550]

The evidence or witness of FM's drive is not clear. There was a recent question of the whole warm bonnet theory. I don't think the original source was identified. The FM in the short part of her walkthrough that was released ALLEGES she drove and saw a truck. it would be a mystery why she would claim this if she had not driven. Especially early, when we think she was not a major suspect. As for seeing anyone? First sighting is FF's car, and we assume that they could see it was him driving, at ~ 8:50 passing the Kendall tennis club on CCTV. Even though the FM said he was running late and left around 9:00. No one saw FM, FGM, William or sister until around 10:30, about the time the FF returned.

The whole drive thing has confused me ever since I heard about it. I don't believe the video of the FM talking about the drive was released until the Coronial Inquest (as per usual, correct me if I am mistaken!). There is certainly no mention of the drive in FM's September 2014 statement.

• Maybe it was something blurted out inadvertently?
• Maybe it was something thrown out 'just in case' someone saw the vehicle on BCR that morning.
• Maybe there was no drive, and the story about the truck driver was just an embellishment (see, I really DID take that drive cos I remember the semi-trailer guy etc..) ... juts like all the other unnecessary embellishments in the narrative - the car which did a U-turn and the description of the driver's facial features. Even FGM: "eggs, toast, orange juice ...."
• or maybe there was a drive, but not to "look for William"?

I keep thinking about the "Daddy Tiger" game and the game where William would surprise FF on his return to the house, and thinking - maybe they were one and the same thing?

Maybe William, "fed up" with drawing and being told how to roll the dice, decided he wanted to play Daddy Tiger and hide and look for FF. "What's Daddy Tiger?" asks, FGM. "Oh it's this game where William hides somewhere and jumps out and roars at FF like a tiger when he comes home." About then a text from FF comes through - "Home in 5".
FM - "Oh, Mum, why don't you take William to the corner to hide from FF to play Daddy Tiger? I'll make us a cup of tea and watch L. William, do you want to go and look for Daddy's car?"
FGM drives down to BCR, leaves William on the corner to wait for FF and returns to the house.
FM - "What are you doing here? Why did you drive? Where's William? Did you wait for FF?"
FGM - "No I left him down on the corner like you told me to."
FM - "No I meant the corner of the driveway you silly old b...."
FGM "Oh its OK, I'm sure FF will see him in his Spiderman suit. Don't worry it's a safe neighbourhood."
Then FF returns home: "Have you got William?" etc etc.

FM blames FGM. FGM blames FM. Then the search starts. meanwhile William has been picked up by whoever (maybe even the people Chapman saw). All hell breaks loose. They agree to not disclose the drive at all so as not to implicate either FM or FGM. This is why the stories and timelines don't align.

After a couple of days, FM realises someone may have seen the car down on BCR in the morning so she owns up to taking the drive herself, but reshapes it into 'looking for William'. The truck driver is invented to make it more realistic or believable.

Remember the Michael Usher interview when he asks FM if FGM blamed herself ... "Oh no. Well, at least I hope she doesn't!" That was a tell.

The big question if this theory were to be right is, Why not own up to it now? Maybe FM is aware of her gross negligence, or that of her mother? And since nobody witnessed the drive anyway, it can't be proven. So why own up to it? It's still an abduction, and it's not going to bring William back. Why let the whole world know you were a negligent parent?

 

[truecrimepath]

Heather Savage confirmed this too, saying she saw the tail lights of the car pull up at the FGM's house.

Where did you get that morsel from? She died in 2015.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Where did you get that morsel from? She died in 2015.

Searching For Spiderman by Ally Chumley pages 59-61.

Alley was also at the inquest, as was I.

We / you are talking about Thursday the 11/9/2014 & Heather was certainly alive than ( was making up a spare bed as she had visitors coming on Friday ).

I'd hedge a bet, that Ally had access to the whole brief also to write her book, as well as attending every day of the inquest.

 

[js47]

I find it strange that FP’s didn’t put pull ups on the children before they left on the trip. Or were they meant to be changing their pull ups.
The children had had a big day at day care. What was to stop them falling asleep on the first part of the trip and maybe having an accident.
If they’d forgotten, why not pull up earlier than half way, why forget again when they stopped at Maccas, why not stop at another place, (not the side of the road.)
I’m not sure how open this road is.

 

[js47]

Sorry sent before comment
The highway would be quite dangerous to stop. If the bag had all the kids clothes etc in it FM must have been flustered. What time did she ring FGM to say she was coming?

 

[js47]

The eyes:
there is a light above the clothes line. As it was a bit dark IMO maybe it was on along with the other one on the other wall.

 

[js47]

Ps you can see it when looking through the laundry photo.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Sorry sent before comment
The highway would be quite dangerous to stop. If the bag had all the kids clothes etc in it FM must have been flustered. What time did she ring FGM to say she was coming?

FM rang her mother @ 15:50 & left a voice mail message & FGM rang her back @ 16:00

 

[Lady O]

It all hinges on what the FD actually said to the police officer. Was she coached in what to say as a four year old? What was the question asked of her and was it asked in an open manner? I am not sure like others that this can be relied on. This is a child that was almost certainly abused and threatened.

I find the discrepancy between arriving at 9pm and 9.30pm very important. The fact that she told the story that she got to Maccas at 6.50 pm when we know she left at 6.40pm is potentially revealing. Why the deception the night before? Was she intentionally misleading or was it an honest mistake? No reason to deceive unless something happened on that trip.

From Searching for Spiderman: (Nancy is FGM; Nathan is FF; Anna is FFM)

 

[31550]

Searching For Spiderman by Ally Chumley pages 59-61.

Alley was also at the inquest, as was I.

We / you are talking about Thursday the 11/9/2014 & Heather was certainly alive than ( was making up a spare bed as she had visitors coming on Friday ).

I'd hedge a bet, that Ally had access to the whole brief also to write her book, as well as attending every day of the inquest.

Thanks. It appears from Chumley's book that Ally must have spent some time interviewing Heather Savage, among other neighbours.
Most people in this thread have read both Ally's book and Overington's book, and have also taken the trouble to research all the available media.
It's not helpful when newcomers jump in without doing any research, yet with theories which have already been discussed, and often discounted.

 

[Lady O]

Thanks. It appears from Chumley's book that Ally must have spent some time interviewing Heather Savage, among other neighbours.
Most people in this thread have read both Ally's book and Overington's book, and have also taken the trouble to research all the available media.
It's not helpful when newcomers jump in without doing any research, yet with theories which have already been discussed, and often discounted.

And become abusive when their theories are dismissed.

 

[js47]

Still think it is possible William could have cycled down the road.
FM went looking for him could not find him. Bought bike home covered with towel (on handle bars) if damaged. Then all hell broke loose.
= Neg
I think FM FGM were deep in conversation that morning. FGM was annoyed that William was taking over the conversations. Finally some peace they forgot about him.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

From Searching for Spiderman: (Nancy is FGM; Nathan is FF; Anna is FFM)

View attachment 2156102

And become abusive when their theories are dismissed.

Thanks. It appears from Chumley's book that Ally must have spent some time interviewing Heather Savage, among other neighbours.
Most people in this thread have read both Ally's book and Overington's book, and have also taken the trouble to research all the available media.
It's not helpful when newcomers jump in without doing any research, yet with theories which have already been discussed, and often discounted.

Are you both talking about me?? I haven't been abusive at all ( if you are )

I've read both books, attended the inquests & have been following from near the beginning.