Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[CodyRose]

If it was a strangers car with presumably, William being snatched in the FGM driveway, William had to circle the house completely and come out at that driveway, the stranger stops, gets out of their car, snatches William who doesn't scream, gets back in the car and shuts the door maybe two doors and drives off, the FM nor the FGM heard any of this only metres away.

Yet the Crabbes heard a car turn around at the FGM house.

Maybe they were not strangers

 

[js47]

It is important if FM changed clothing before and after drive. Hope they ask about detail from the truck driver.

Was dirty clothes checked on the day? For FM FD FGM.

Fm shoes what shoes was she wearing what soil traces on her shoes.
Hope they looked with a scanning microscope.

 

[Underarrest_]

It is important if FM changed clothing before and after drive. Hope they ask about detail from the truck driver.

Was dirty clothes checked on the day? For FM FD FGM.

Fm shoes what shoes was she wearing what soil traces on her shoes.
Hope they looked with a scanning microscope.

and if he saw anything in the car.

 

[js47]

The neighbour was away 48 is at the end of the road on a corner. If there was a car noise at the time William disappeared wouldn’t the FM think it was FF home early and go and look?

 

[stormbird]

I think William was disposed of by a sneaky complex offender. It is in the detail.

The detail of the "sneaky complex offender" thing is that Mr Craddock was quoting from a book (I searched for a sentence of what he'd been recorded saying):

Investigating Missing Children Cases: A Guide for First Responders and Investigators by Donald F. Sprague

Google Books has a preview of the 2012 edition and the "sneaky complex offender" is in chapter 3, page 27:



Last two paragraphs: "An offender in a runaway (if child is enticed/solicited) or abducted child case can come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, economic statuses, and could be the most inconspicuous person. We really do not know who the offender or abductor will be or who has either enticed a child to run away by use of the Internet or other means. It could be the father, the mother, an uncle, an aunt, a family member, the neighbor, a friend (close or slight acquaintance), a person of trust, or a stranger. The offender/abductor may be a person known or unknown. Who really knows? (Only the offender does.)

There is no doubt that everyone in a missing child investigation is a suspect until proven differently. The offender in such crimes is a sneaky complex offender who has hidden his or her desires for some time and has chosen to act on those desires. The following chapters are written to give the responding officer, the investigator, and his or her department some insight and tools to start with and use throughout their investigations of a runaway or missing child in identifying a victim or offender."

 

[Wallace52]

The detail of the "sneaky complex offender" thing is that Mr Craddock was quoting from a book (I searched for a sentence of what he'd been recorded saying):

Investigating Missing Children Cases: A Guide for First Responders and Investigators by Donald F. Sprague

Google Books has a preview of the 2012 edition and the "sneaky complex offender" is in chapter 3, page 27:

View attachment 2158163

Last two paragraphs: "An offender in a runaway (if child is enticed/solicited) or abducted child case can come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, economic statuses, and could be the most inconspicuous person. We really do not know who the offender or abductor will be or who has either enticed a child to run away by use of the Internet or other means. It could be the father, the mother, an uncle, an aunt, a family member, the neighbor, a friend (close or slight acquaintance), a person of trust, or a stranger. The offender/abductor may be a person known or unknown. Who really knows? (Only the offender does.)

There is no doubt that everyone in a missing child investigation is a suspect until proven differently. The offender in such crimes is a sneaky complex offender who has hidden his or her desires for some time and has chosen to act on those desires. The following chapters are written to give the responding officer, the investigator, and his or her department some insight and tools to start with and use throughout their investigations of a runaway or missing child in identifying a victim or offender."

Omg. Excellent pickup there.

 

[Wallace52]

Photos courtesy of 10 News

Day one of resumption of inquest: 4 November 2024

Foster parents out to lunch with lawyer Sharon Ramsden. Highly paid Barristers English (retained by FF) and Stratton (tendency expert and retained by the FM) are not present in this photo.

FF solicitor is on maternity leave, and is not featured in this photo either.

 

[MarkyMark88]

According to 9 News, the FM wont be called to give evidence, but video will be played. Go to the 9 News Sydney facebook page and scroll down to the inquest reporting.

9.3K views · 95 reactions | Fifth stage of Tyrell inquest resumes | It's been ten years since William Tyrrell vanished on the state's mid-north coast, and today the fifth stage of the inquest into his disappearance... | By 9 News Sydney | Facebook

It's been ten years since William Tyrrell vanished on the state's mid-north coast, and today the fifth stage of the inquest into his disappearance...

www.facebook.com

 

[Underarrest_]

I keep coming back to FM saying at the crime commission, words something to the affect of, dig it up then.

 

[Underarrest_]

Perhaps the evidence given is an elimination of what could have happened.

 

[Awakening]

Maybe FF pulled into the drive and FM pulled in just after him and asked “Is William with you?” Then told him she’d been out looking for William.

 

[stormbird]

Omg. Excellent pickup there.

So he’s just ripped it off from:
Investigating Missing Children Cases: A Guide for First Responders and Investigators Donald F. Sprague


I mean, come on. This is just nuts, isn’t it. I thought he honestly wrote that clever little bit himself. Now I’m sad.

Only small snatches of what he said was published, so it's possible he explained it was a quote but the reporters didn't bother to say so. I think that's more likely than plagiarism, but who knows.

 

[Awakening]

Something that’s just popped into my mind as I’m trying to sleep: FM comment that they can dig it all up they won’t find him there.

I think it was part of the covert surveillance. The big dig was announced and this comment was made to a friend I think?

How would FM know that William wouldn’t be found there? For all she knew, he’d wandered off or the kidnapper/killer dumped his remains there.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Photos courtesy of 10 News

Day one of resumption of inquest: 4 November 2024

Foster parents out to lunch with lawyer Sharon Ramsden. Highly paid Barristers English (retained by FF) and Stratton (tendency expert and retained by the FM) are not present in this photo.

FF solicitor is on maternity leave, and is not featured in this photo either.

Looks like the cafe in the court complex.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'm a little intrigued tbh. SFR has settled on Cobb & co, but there is nothing there.. it is the place to which she drove and was seen. So WHY is IT the location in their theory?

What I know of cadaver dog indications is that they are highly accurate and extremely durable. A body interred in a grave will be detected by a dog decades later. Under water too. But they are inadmissible. A cadaver will even leave a residual scent though only temporarily in a place but can dissipate over time in weather. It will more likely leave scent in enclosed places like a car. I wonder if cadaver indications are the only thing holding SFR to that location? If even they are absent then you have to conclude W wasn't there. That then begs the question why then would FM go there? They seem convinced of location so I'm inclined to think cadaver dogs indicated to confirm theory but that SFR can't submit that as evidence perhaps.

If W's body once was there but was moved to permanent location this case is never going to be solved..

"We know WHY, we know WHERE we know HOW." Mmmmmm

The Box and FPs pantomime infuriates me.

The FD was taken away. Thank goodness. And despite what you may think in that deranged mind of yours she ISN'T an only child now. She has bio siblings that hopefully she can develop relationships with now she is free of your clutches.

 

[BFew]

The reported Agenda for the Coronial Inquest today (Tuesday) includes

1. Senior Constable Jost Preis - the 2021 search for William's body
2. Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies - body decomposition
3. Police - search/cadaver dogs and identification of those in the area where William disappeared (I assume this would include mobile data, Sat Nav data, Satellites, CCTV)

Probe into 'intensive' William Tyrrell search continues

A reopened inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell will be given more details about a third police...

www.canberratimes.com.au

'Probe into 'intensive' William Tyrrell search continues'​

'Updated November 5 2024 - 3:37am, first published 3:32am
...
On Tuesday, coroner Harriet Grahame will continue to hear evidence about the 2021 search for the toddler's body.
Senior Constable Jost Preis will discuss the methodology of the search, including the use of GPS trackers to ensure that every patch of ground was covered.

Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies will then take the stand to discuss the decomposition of a body and how bones are broken down or preserved in certain environmental conditions.

If time allows, additional evidence about efforts of police to identify those in the area when William disappeared as well as the use of both search and cadaver dogs to locate him will also be heard.
...'

 

[Earls Smother]

Perhaps the evidence given is an elimination of what could have happened.

They are testing the theory, not setting out to prove it. The facts could well eliminate the theory (or in no way support it) and is why they won't accept "opinion" from the police.

For me, if the truck driver has only seen the car, then they have bugger all. I've always felt a panicked drive is perfectly feasible. She went in the most isolated direction because that would be the most worrying if that's where he had headed. She admitted she drove and didn't try to hide it. The distance she drove might be illogical, but people do illogical stuff under extreme stress. The police have tried to break her with bluffing and haven't been able to.

If the truck driver saw her out of the car then that would be more incriminating. If he saw any digging implement, then very different story.

 

[Wallace52]

Something that’s just popped into my mind as I’m trying to sleep: FM comment that they can dig it all up they won’t find him there.

I think it was part of the covert surveillance. The big dig was announced and this comment was made to a friend I think?

How would FM know that William wouldn’t be found there? For all she knew, he’d wandered off or the kidnapper/killer dumped his remains there.

It’s a pretty obvious answer, I would say.

 

[Wallace52]

I keep coming back to FM saying at the crime commission, words something to the affect of, dig it up then.

I would suggest that if the FM is responsible: She’s appears to be very confident of where he won’t be found. IMHO

If she’s moved him from that area or had him moved from that area, she has done that fairly quickly. IMO

I wonder, how could she have moved William from the original site?

Did she have help? And where is he now? That’s the bigger question.

If he was abducted, he may have been buried around there. How would she have known he would not be found there?

 

[BFew]

Published early this morning (Part 2)

Australia’s biggest mystery: Dan Box Pt.2 - I Catch Killers with Gary Jubelin

William Tyrrell is one of the biggest missing persons cases in the world - and it ultimately ended Gary Jubelin’s career. Now, investigative journalist Dan Box is giving listeners the definitive story into William Tyrrell’s disappearance. In this episode, Dan shares what was done right during...

omny.fm

 

[Earls Smother]

If it was a strangers car with presumably, William being snatched in the FGM driveway, William had to circle the house completely and come out at that driveway, the stranger stops, gets out of their car, snatches William who doesn't scream, gets back in the car and shuts the door maybe two doors and drives off, the FM nor the FGM heard any of this only metres away.

Yet the Crabbes heard a car turn around at the FGM house.

He doesn't have to have been taken from that side of the house though.

Any car randomly going down that road is going to have to do a u-turn around number 48 or 52. They could then notice William after turning the dogleg. That first stretch from the corner (heading back towards BC Rd.) would be the most difficult spot for anyone to see (or hear) anything.

 

[truecrimepath]

Perhaps the evidence given is an elimination of what could have happened.

I hope so. There is over two weeks left. Perhaps they are clearing the decks for other experts. I hope they have used experts to look at the photos carefully. On what they have so far presented there is not enough to charge a 'fly of laying a maggot'.

 

[BFew]

Perhaps the evidence given is an elimination of what could have happened.

You're on the right track according to the omny transcript of the Dan Box podcast below, published early yesterday morning before the inquest return commenced.

"For me, this is the big question about today's hearing, is the sudden stop to the inquest.

The last hearing was in twenty twenty and the findings were due in twenty twenty one, but now more than three years later, the police are still investigating and the inquest is about to start back up with no public explanation why so we have to assume it's because the police have been off investigating.

So you're right. When it was today, we'd expect the police to say what they have or have not found, but we'd also expect answers. Have they ruled out other persons of interest? And there have been those other names which will go into later in this series in some detail.

I know you've done a lot of work on that, but the reason those other persons of interest are important are that if the police have got evidence to back up their suspicion of William's foster mum being involved, if they've got direct evidence of that, then great they've solved the case.

But if they haven't, if they've only got a circumstantial case, then they have to be able to rule out anyone else who may have been involved. So those other names we've heard in the inquest, they have to have an answer as to whether or not those people can be ruled out.

Bonus episode - The Inquest - Witness: William Tyrrell

What to expect at today’s inquest into William’s disappearance. Witness: William Tyrrell is the new, landmark investigation from news.com.au. Read more and watch exclusive video content here Follow us on socials: Instagram: @newscomauhq Facebook: News.com.au TikTok: @news.com.au Subscribe to...

omny.fm

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The reported Agenda for the Coronial Inquest today (Tuesday) includes

1. Senior Constable Jost Preis - the 2021 search for William's body
2. Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies - body decomposition
3. Police - search/cadaver dogs and identification of those in the area where William disappeared (I assume this would include mobile data, Sat Nav data, Satellites, CCTV)

Probe into 'intensive' William Tyrrell search continues

A reopened inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell will be given more details about a third police...

www.canberratimes.com.au

'Probe into 'intensive' William Tyrrell search continues'​

'Updated November 5 2024 - 3:37am, first published 3:32am
...
On Tuesday, coroner Harriet Grahame will continue to hear evidence about the 2021 search for the toddler's body.
Senior Constable Jost Preis will discuss the methodology of the search, including the use of GPS trackers to ensure that every patch of ground was covered.

Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies will then take the stand to discuss the decomposition of a body and how bones are broken down or preserved in certain environmental conditions.

If time allows, additional evidence about efforts of police to identify those in the area when William disappeared as well as the use of both search and cadaver dogs to locate him will also be heard.
...'

If they are going to submit there are cadaver indications in location and /or FGM car then that is it for me.

COG lies
COG lies FGM
Drive to Cobb & Co and seen
Cadaver indications at that site
Cadaver indications in FGM car
Hand injury on bush

Cadaver indications are only given to where a dead human is or was. 97% accurate..

Enough for me

***

 

[BFew]

I hope so. There is over two weeks left. Perhaps they are clearing the decks for other experts. I hope they have used experts to look at the photos carefully. On what they have so far presented there is not enough to charge a 'fly of laying a maggot'.

From the Dan Box podcast yesterday morning, if we are getting nothing from the media and possibly at the inquest regarding the Spiderman photos. Or only the conclusion without any details, then I would have thought that increases the likelihood that evidence and forensic analysis regarding the validity and/or date/timing of the photos is under a non publication or suppression order. To keep digital image/devices police investigative and forensic techniques under wraps.

'I think there's a few things we can expect

So the first of those is closed court looking at the way the inquest has run over the years, It's had a lot of times when the court has been emptied, no media, no members of the public, and it's been done behind closed doors.

And that's previously been done at the request of the police, and the idea is is to protect their investigation or to protect the discussion of police techniques, and that's all well and good, but we have to trust them that it is being done for the right reasons.

Another thing we can expect is non publication orders suppression orders where the coroner says, you cannot say what this evidence is publicly, so in the media, we can't do anything with it, and there have been a lot of those to date.

This case is surrounded by secrecy, and again it's the same thing that can be for really good reasons to protect people, to protect the police investigation. But it means we do have to trust that those orders being put in place for the right reason and are being used in the right way. It means that justice is being done behind closed.
...'

Bonus episode - The Inquest - Witness: William Tyrrell

What to expect at today’s inquest into William’s disappearance. Witness: William Tyrrell is the new, landmark investigation from news.com.au. Read more and watch exclusive video content here Follow us on socials: Instagram: @newscomauhq Facebook: News.com.au TikTok: @news.com.au Subscribe to...

omny.fm