Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[31550]

The neighbour was away 48 is at the end of the road on a corner. If there was a car noise at the time William disappeared wouldn’t the FM think it was FF home early and go and look?

Too busy doing other things?

The odds of a random vehicle turning around in Benaroon Drive ( a dead-end street ) in that particular time window (10-10:30) are just astronomical. No reason for any non-resident cars to be there, besides the postie who has been ruled out.

If the Crabbe's heard the same car, it was almost certainly the FGMs car backing out of the driveway, and then going down Benaroon towards BCR. They described a vehicle turning on gravel?

 

[truecrimepath]

Where is the evidence of 'perverting the course of justice' or 'interfering with a corpse'. If nothing substantial is presented , it is just malicious behaviour by the police in the same manner as Spedding.

We have three weeks left in the inquest. I hope for the police's sake they have something real to present.

If they don't, there needs to be a full and open judicial enquiry into this case and the police response. It calls for major cultural change within the police force imho.

 

[31550]

I wonder, how could she have moved William from the original site?

Did she have help? And where is he now? That’s the bigger question.

Perhaps the coroner will ask the FF about his movements early Friday morning? He was not at the house when Wendy Hudson arrived.

 

[31550]

Where is the evidence of 'perverting the course of justice' or 'interfering with a corpse'. If nothing substantial is presented , it is just malicious behaviour by the police in the same manner as Spedding.

We have three weeks left in the inquest. I hope for the police's sake they have something real to present.

If they don't, there needs to be a full and open judicial enquiry into this case and the police response. It calls for major cultural change within the police force imho.

It's a coronial inquest. It's not a criminal trial. It is concerned only with establishing the cause and circumstances of death. All that other stuff is up to the police to prove.

 

[Kurve]

Where is the evidence of 'perverting the course of justice' or 'interfering with a corpse'. If nothing substantial is presented , it is just malicious behaviour by the police in the same manner as Spedding.

Bill Spedding had a solid alibi.

 

[BFew]

Bill Spedding had a solid alibi.

What period of time of day did his alibi cover?

 

[31550]

This case is surrounded by secrecy, and again it's the same thing that can be for really good reasons to protect people, to protect the police investigation. But it means we do have to trust that those orders being put in place for the right reason and are being used in the right way. It means that justice is being done behind closed.

Does Box realise the irony in his rhetoric? He is complaining about all the secrecy, and questions whether it is being used in the right way. But that very secrecy is protecting the people he is defending! Who is being protected here? Not the police - they are doing their job, or trying to. They have nothing to lose by lifting the veil of secrecy and revealing everything they know. Not William's bio parents - everyone knows who they are now. Not William's sister - any more - she has now been moved to a safe situation. Certainly not William. Who are the only people being protected by secrecy, Dan?

 

[31550]

What period of time of day did his alibi cover?

Do we really need to back up the truck and run over Spedding again? He's been exonerated, and compensated for malicious prosecution. He has nothing to do with this case.

 

[Kurve]

What period of time of day did his alibi cover?

He was with his wife at the school assembly and stayed through some kind of presentation, then he and his wife sat down in a coffee shop. They have receipts.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Does Box realise the irony in his rhetoric? He is complaining about all the secrecy, and questions whether it is being used in the right way. But that very secrecy is protecting the people he is defending! Who is being protected here? Not the police - they are doing their job, or trying to. They have nothing to lose by lifting the veil of secrecy and revealing everything they know. Not William's bio parents - everyone knows who they are now. Not William's sister - any more - she has now been moved to a safe situation. Certainly not William. Who are the only people being protected by secrecy, Dan?

He is imo prostituting himself to be sure of having FPs co-operation for the story. Journalistic integrity out the window

 

[Angry Red Bull]

It's a coronial inquest. It's not a criminal trial. It is concerned only with establishing the cause and circumstances of death. All that other stuff is up to the police to prove.

In my view you only need to prove a dead body was there..the COGS lies about everything else proves perverting course of justice

We habitually don't accept cadaver evidence preferring forensics. A few cases in USA have accepted cadaver evidence for conviction.

if there is a case where you could it would be this one. Why? Because you have identified the site FIRST by her testimony and Truck driver. The chance then of a random mistake for cadaver is eliminated on that specificity

 

[31550]

In my view you only need to prove a dead body was there..the COGS lies about everything else proves perverting course of justice

We habitually don't accept cadaver evidence preferring forensics. A few cases in USA have accepted cadaver evidence for conviction.

if there is a case where you could it would be this one. Why? Because you have identified the site FIRST by her testimony and Truck driver. The chance then of a random mistake for cadaver is eliminated on that specificity

I'm not convinced they are going down the cadaver route. But it might work. It's not considered infallible evidence in Australia. However, the coroner works on balance of probability , not "beyond reasonable doubt", so a cadaver hit might support the police theory enough to convince the coroner to find this way. Whereas, in a criminal court it might not be enough to secure a conviction.

 

[LRitz]

She’s cut it very, very fine.

What did she do between 9:37am and 10:10am?

Agree. Why would she have to put time pressure on herself? Why did she go and see neighbour AM if she still had to do a drive.
I still think William was missing way before 10:00.

Again, all eyes on the FM. What about the FF.

I think it is possible he left (with or without William) around 8:00 just after neighbours Crabb left for their routine morning exercise ( I recall some where it was referred to that they went out like clockwork). The other neighbour is away and everyone knows this. So FF would have been pretty secure that no one would see hime leave and drive into the state forest. We still have the missing 10 to 15 minutes of FF drive after he was seen on CCTV and before he reaches Lakewood.

Why be so worried about the shoes. If they were still at the back door just say he had so much energy he just ran to the front of the house barefoot. Or say - I thought he had his shoes on but must have been mistaken.

FPs were pretty bolshy about daring the police to do their digs. IMO they both know where William is and that was not the place.

Two possible reasons for the drive IMO. FM is hiding Williams body. Or she sees something in the house that is incriminating that FPs overlooked. What about something IT, like a second memory card for the camera that she thought could be discovered if the police had locked the house down as a crime scene.

Will be so interesting to hear from the truck driver. I wonder if he says he "acknowledged" FM.

All of the above IMO only. A bit jumbled and just catching up on excellent previous posts.
Thanks to all for updates and summary of Coroners Court

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'm not convinced they are going down the cadaver route. But it might work. It's not considered infallible evidence in Australia. However, the coroner works on balance of probability , not "beyond reasonable doubt", so a cadaver hit might support the police theory enough to convince the coroner to find this way. Whereas, in a criminal court it might not be enough to secure a conviction.

Look at Bfew post 4491 agenda for today. Yes includes searches and cadaver indications. That is exactly the path they are taking

 

[31550]

PSA (request at least)
Since the coronial inquest is now focussed on the theory that William died at FGM property after 9:37 and was removed by FM, and there are no proposed witnesses to refute the authenticity of the photographs, and there is nothing alleged by the police concerning the photographs, ...
Can we please just accept that the police and the coroner accept the 9:37 photographs as genuine proof-of-life and there will be no further challenge as to their authenticity?
So, it really doesn't help discussing any theory that William left the property or died before 9:37am.

 

[31550]

Look at Bfew post 4491 agenda for today. Yes includes searches and cadaver indications. That is exactly the path they are taking

Among other things. If they can pinpoint the exact time the truck driver saw the FGM car then that will be a significant piece of evidence. Any earlier than 10:30 incriminates FM.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Among other things. If they can pinpoint the exact time the truck driver saw the FGM car then that will be a significant piece of evidence. Any earlier than 10:30 incriminates FM.

She could argue that she didn't alert AMS until after she went looking so I don't think it's as tight for smoking gun....though logical to alert neighbours first agree

I think her being there being seen there, and cadaver indications there are very persuasive to W being there.

It's not often you have dead bodies in random locations

 

[stormbird]

They are testing the theory, not setting out to prove it. The facts could well eliminate the theory (or in no way support it) and is why they won't accept "opinion" from the police.

For me, if the truck driver has only seen the car, then they have bugger all. I've always felt a panicked drive is perfectly feasible. She went in the most isolated direction because that would be the most worrying if that's where he had headed. She admitted she drove and didn't try to hide it. The distance she drove might be illogical, but people do illogical stuff under extreme stress. The police have tried to break her with bluffing and haven't been able to.

If the truck driver saw her out of the car then that would be more incriminating. If he saw any digging implement, then very different story.

I'm thinking the police case against FM and their search focus on the Cobb & Co Rd area would make more sense if the truck driver saw FM on a different day (hypothetically, returning later to move William's remains).

 

[truecrimepath]

Agree. Why would she have to put time pressure on herself? Why did she go and see neighbour AM if she still had to do a drive.
I still think William was missing way before 10:00.

Again, all eyes on the FM. What about the FF.

I think it is possible he left (with or without William) around 8:00 just after neighbours Crabb left for their routine morning exercise ( I recall some where it was referred to that they went out like clockwork). The other neighbour is away and everyone knows this. So FF would have been pretty secure that no one would see hime leave and drive into the state forest. We still have the missing 10 to 15 minutes of FF drive after he was seen on CCTV and before he reaches Lakewood.

Why be so worried about the shoes. If they were still at the back door just say he had so much energy he just ran to the front of the house barefoot. Or say - I thought he had his shoes on but must have been mistaken.

FPs were pretty bolshy about daring the police to do their digs. IMO they both know where William is and that was not the place.

Two possible reasons for the drive IMO. FM is hiding Williams body. Or she sees something in the house that is incriminating that FPs overlooked. What about something IT, like a second memory card for the camera that she thought could be discovered if the police had locked the house down as a crime scene.

Will be so interesting to hear from the truck driver. I wonder if he says he "acknowledged" FM.

All of the above IMO only. A bit jumbled and just catching up on excellent previous posts.
Thanks to all for updates and summary of Coroners Court

I am glad that you are looking at this rationally. The 9.37 photo is an alibis that protects the FF. The drive could have also been an intentional red herring by the FM in case they were suspected early on. Like an insurance policy. I suspect she may way too clever for these dumb coppers who I think have taken the bait, again.

It all gets back to the photos. I feel really strongly they were not taken that day. The children were drawing pictures for FGF grave. He died in February. I have been measuring angles of the sun shadows. I am coming up with an angle of 70 degrees Sun elevation, no matter what I measure. It just happens that my best estimate for the photos are actually Mid February, 2014 using that angle at about 12.45pm. So were the children literally drawing pictures for the FGF grave when he was buried.

Do we know when he was buried? I can't find it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Among other things. If they can pinpoint the exact time the truck driver saw the FGM car then that will be a significant piece of evidence. Any earlier than 10:30 incriminates FM.

I think they must have corralled all the phone data pings and methodically eliminated them to find the truck driver. Soooo they already know time i'd say.

 

[truecrimepath]

She’s very confident of where he won’t be found, isn’t she.

If she’s moved him from that area or had him moved from that area, she has done that fairly quickly. IMO

I wonder, how could she have moved William from the original site?

Did she have help? And where is he now? That’s the bigger question.

If he was abducted, he may have been buried around there. How would she have known he would not be found there?

I think he was never there. Red Herring swallowed by police hook line and sinker.

 

[Kurve]

I think he was never there. Red Herring swallowed by police hook line and sinker.

For William to never have been there, the whole family would have to be in on it including the foster grandmother and the foster daughter.

It's not possible to maintain that lie.

 

[truecrimepath]

Bill Spedding had a solid alibi.

Why did you say this? I am inferring the persecution of Bill Spedding was malicious. I think the phone call to him that morning was also a red flag.

 

[Kurve]

Why did you say this? I am inferring the persecution of Bill Spedding was malicious. I think the phone call to him that morning was also a red flag.

That Bill Spedding had an alibi is the very big difference between him and the foster mother.

Spedding's alibi went a long way to proving a malicious prosecution.

 

[truecrimepath]

For William to never have been there, the whole family would have to be in on it including the foster grandmother and the foster daughter.

It's not possible to maintain that lie.

The foster daughter was 4 years old. I am not convinced her testimony is that reliable. When I saw that the arrival time was between 8.30pm and 9 pm the night before according to the four year old foster daughter, I suspected she had been coached. No pre-schooler is going to give a time of arrival like that. Red flag.

It all gets back to what she exactly said on the first day and how she was asked. If she was coached and felt intimidated then anything is possible. If William died in his sleep, she may not even know.