Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[truecrimepath]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who are more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

Saving face again is more important to all of them.

 

[31550]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who are more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

Another one trying to control the narrative, instead of just reporting the facts.
"Journalism" is well and truly dead.

 

[Earls Smother]

There was a statement from police that they believed she threw something out the car window.

Well where is it then? They believe things and have theories, but no evidence to back it up.

Then there is FMs own statement that she had her head out the window looking for William and the truck driver mistakenly believed she was waving at him.

She’s already on the front foot discrediting the truck driver.

None of that is unreasonable IMO. She'd need the window down to call his name.

She only mentions the truck driver once - in the walk through interview - and never mentions the encounter again.

Which strikes me as very odd because for all she knew, he had picked up William along the very road she was looking for him on.

It's on record as having occurred. The second point is valid and you would think she would have asked the driver if he had seen anything if it was practical.

There was these detailed descriptions of the two vehicles but no details on the truck driver or appeals by the FM for him to come forward.

My guess is that the truck driver saw something fairly suspicious for it to grab his attention. When you are on the road a lot you seen random things fairly frequently.

We'll find out what he saw, but I think the police case will need a lot more than just seeing her driving.

 

[LRitz]

There was a statement from police that they believed she threw something out the car window.

Then there is FMs own statement that she had her head out the window looking for William and the truck driver mistakenly believed she was waving at him.

She’s already on the front foot discrediting the truck driver.

She only mentions the truck driver once - in the walk through interview - and never mentions the encounter again.

Which strikes me as very odd because for all she knew, he had picked up William along the very road she was looking for him on.

There was these detailed descriptions of the two vehicles but no details on the truck driver or appeals by the FM for him to come forward.

My guess is that the truck driver saw something fairly suspicious for it to grab his attention. When you are on the road a lot you seen random things fairly frequently.

So what-if: What if FM around 10:00, sees something at the house that is incriminating. She does not want to hide it in the house. She can not throw it in the garbage as this is likely to be searched. She can not dispose of in the garden or surrounds because the search for William will be going over the area very carefully looking for any minute evidence. So she turns right on to Batar Creek away from houses and those pesky neighbours and far enough away from the search party area. She has to be back at the house by 10:30 for the planned return of the FF.

What did she throw ( if she did throw something). It could not be shoes or clothing that could easily be seen. Must be something small, IMO.

 

[Wallace52]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who appear more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

I agree, this balcony accident theory is really growing legs.

For those interested, I have clipped some screen grabs of the foster parents wearing their Where’s William ribbons. These photos are from circa Sept/Oct 2023 at the inquest directions hearing.

 

[LRitz]

Re: "No reason for any non-resident cars to be there, besides the postie who has been ruled out."

The vacant lot across the road from FGM's was for sale at the time: Wayback (it was previously called "Lot 43" but now I think it's "Number 49" and it's been cleared and there's a house on it). Anyone could have driven in to see where the lot was and take a look, and when leaving they might have turned around in front of any of the nearby houses or in their driveways, or by doing a U-turn where the bitumen runs out (near Nos 51 & 52 or No.43).

Also re the postie: what if she couldn't deliver everything that day because her run was unusually early? Someone else might have come along later to deliver the remaining post items or parcels. Jubelin's book said he didn't even want to investigate her at first, so I'm not confident the police have eliminated the possibility of a later unofficial delivery run. MOO

Also: anyone in a 4WD vehicle driving through to Kendall State Forest. Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week. Reporters keep saying that Benaroon Drive was a dead-end street but on Google Street View the signpost for Benaroon Drive looks to be the only one along the southern part of Batar Creek Road which does not say "no through road".

But you would think this person would come forward.

"Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week."

Really! Just a thought..... Could FF have visited the area in his new 4WD in the weeks before? Could be up and back in a day. (Not necessarily the car PS saw.) Have a bit of a drive through the state forest to find a nice quiet spot that is good for digging.

 

[Wallace52]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who appear more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

There is a suggestion that the FM was involved. This whole week thus far is based around a suggestion that the FM might be responsible.

Also, you would think for a TV news reporter, Ms. Harris would have figured out a way to incorporate some tone and prosody into her speech patterns.

 

[Lady O]

There is a suggestion that the FM was involved. This whole week thus far is based around a suggestion that the FM might be responsible.

Also, you would think for a TV news reporter, Ms. Harris would have figured out a way to incorporate some tone and prosody into her speech patterns.

I assumed she meant that there is no suggestion that FM is responsible for his death.

 

[Awakening]

“Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/william-tyrrell-inquest-boy-seen-in-car-day-of-abduction-082631969.html

“The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day.

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Neighbour Peter Crabb said he didn’t see any cars parked on the street either, not when he and his wife left and not when they returned home at about 9.30 am.

A heart scare had prompted Peter to add more exercise into his daily routine. So every morning, rain or shine, he and his wife, Sharelle, drove
to North Haven for a brisk walk along the riverside bike path.

Their walk took at least an hour, putting their departure from home at around 8.00 to 8.30.”

From Searching for Spiderman, Ally Chumley.

 

[Kurve]

He still would have been at the edge of the property, just the side edge rather than the front.



Hugely high risk of being seen, but the trees help more on that side IMO. For a random abduction, the offender needs everything to fall their way. If it does, it then depends on those within the house having watertight alibis, to effectively confirm that abduction is all that's left. In this case, they don't.

The dingo theory wasn't accepted initially, so Lindy got locked up. If Cleo hadn't been found, the parents would have been still in the gun. Bung disappeared equally as mysteriously as William, but the parents were saved from years of further torment, by a fortuitous sighting by 1 neighbour.

I'm not sure the cases are comparable, I always knew Lindy was telling the truth in that the dingo took Azaria but we're a long way forward from there.

Bung was a young woman, on her way to school on her own in the suburbs. Not a three year old on a bush block in a dead end street and in the care of two adults.

I think the parents were cleared quite quickly in the Cleo case as the cops found evidence of stranger footprints around the tent, tampering with the zipper, a couple of other things I can't recall but there was also witness to a car leaving the campgrounds early hours of the morning travelling fast. There was also a history of thieving across the grounds.

If I agree the cops are going to need more than we've seen yet to lay charges.

 

[Kurve]

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Didn't we read that the car the Crabbes heard has never been identified?

 

[LRitz]

“Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/william-tyrrell-inquest-boy-seen-in-car-day-of-abduction-082631969.html

“The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day.

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Neighbour Peter Crabb said he didn’t see any cars parked on the street either, not when he and his wife left and not when they returned home at about 9.30 am.

A heart scare had prompted Peter to add more exercise into his daily routine. So every morning, rain or shine, he and his wife, Sharelle, drove
to North Haven for a brisk walk along the riverside bike path.

Their walk took at least an hour, putting their departure from home at around 8.00 to 8.30.”

From Searching for Spiderman, Ally Chumley.

As noted before it would have been well known those neighbours would be out that morning for their exercise at the usual time, Especially by the FGM across the road. Gives a time slot for a sneaky plan. Everyone knew the other house next door was empty.

 

[31550]

But you would think this person would come forward.

"Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week."

Really! Just a thought..... Could FF have visited the area in his new 4WD in the weeks before? Could be up and back in a day. (Not necessarily the car PS saw.) Have a bit of a drive through the state forest to find a nice quiet spot that is good for digging.

You are suggesting William's demise was planned. Why not take him into the bush, dump him down a mineshaft and say he wandered off and got lost?

 

[Earls Smother]

I'm not sure the cases are comparable, I always knew Lindy was telling the truth in that the dingo took Azaria but we're a long way forward from there.

Bung was a young woman, on her way to school on her own in the suburbs. Not a three year old on a bush block in a dead end street and in the care of two adults.

I think the parents were cleared quite quickly in the Cleo case as the cops found evidence of stranger footprints around the tent, tampering with the zipper, a couple of other things I can't recall but there was also witness to a car leaving the campgrounds early hours of the morning travelling fast. There was also a history of thieving across the grounds.

If I agree the cops are going to need more than we've seen yet to lay charges.

Agree, all cases are different.

The point is, the parent/s by default will always remain "likely", in lieu of no obvious alternative. A case that turns back to the "likely" after a number of years, just seems convenient for the police. Surely GJ had enough experience to see the early signs if they were there?

They appear to have no evidence FM did it and no evidence of an abduction. So they've gone down the "historically more likely" route to save public face, rather than admit they have no ****ing idea which one it is.

 

[DropBearess]

I wonder if the FPs and/or their PR arranged someone to abuse and name her so her legal team could push for a closed court? Especially given the surveillance evidence of her abusing LT is about to surface?

On SM-A356E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Lady O]

“Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/william-tyrrell-inquest-boy-seen-in-car-day-of-abduction-082631969.html

“The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day.

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Neighbour Peter Crabb said he didn’t see any cars parked on the street either, not when he and his wife left and not when they returned home at about 9.30 am.

A heart scare had prompted Peter to add more exercise into his daily routine. So every morning, rain or shine, he and his wife, Sharelle, drove
to North Haven for a brisk walk along the riverside bike path.

Their walk took at least an hour, putting their departure from home at around 8.00 to 8.30.”

From Searching for Spiderman, Ally Chumley.

Peter Crabb said at the inquest it was not long after they arrived home at 9.30am. I think there is some guesswork involved in the time. The only mention I have at the inquest of 10.05am was Det.Beacroft said she believed WT disappeared between 10.05am and 10.15am. If Peter Crabb was correct, the car could have been heard up to 30 minutes earlier than the Police believe.

 

[Underarrest_]

I’ve always found the sudden change of plans strange. FF could have rearranged his very brief meeting with a client. He had planned to be in Kendall for a break away on the Friday.
I still find the text message 3 minutes before arriving home very strange (kids greeting their parents when they come home is a natural thing, no planning involved,) and didn’t FM say that she’d said to William where’s Daddy? Why, she hadn’t received a text from FF at this stage?
Talk of Ff having a second phone, deleted text messages, phone calls about washing machine parts.

In saying that, I think it’s possible a person(s) has driven down that remote area and taken William.
A Psychologist said that William wouldn’t be too afraid of strangers because of his care situation, meeting case workers, etc and he did call his parents K and B. (Opposite of what FM says that he would shy away but she also said he wouldn’t wander, unlikely for a 3 year old.)
The whole case is strange to me.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

From the moment she was seen by the truck drive she had imo made the decision that that location couldn't be allowed to stand..If he came forward it would sink her..So FF must have went out in the night and shifted the body. That's why he wasn't there first thing in the next morning. Out spending the night looking my ar*e.

If cadaver scent was there it may still sink her.

 

[31550]

From the moment she was seen by the truck drive she had imo made the decision that that location couldn't be allowed to stand..If he came forward it would sink her..So FF must have went out in the night and shifted the body. That's why he wasn't there first thing in the next morning. Out spending the night looking my ar*e.

If cadaver scent was there it may still sink her.

People don't drive trucks around for fun. He was delivering something or picking something up. So there's a supplier and a customer, either of whom could help police narrow down the time the truck was on Batar Creek Rd. Plus the CCTV at the tennis club. Plus the cell phone records of the driver if a call was made or received. Plus CCTV on other surrounding roads depending on the route taken. Did the truck driver purchase petrol that day? Any financial transactions which would determine time and location?

 

[Underarrest_]

From the moment she was seen by the truck drive she had imo made the decision that that location couldn't be allowed to stand..If he came forward it would sink her..So FF must have went out in the night and shifted the body. That's why he wasn't there first thing in the next morning. Out spending the night looking my ar*e.

If cadaver scent was there it may still sink her.

I wonder if William’s body just placed somewhere or was he in something.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I wonder if William’s body just placed somewhere or was he in something.

Just placed..terrible disrespect to a human life.

I'm with 31550 I think there is possibility the hiding was after a non accidental death

 

[Underarrest_]

Just placed..terrible disrespect to a human life.

I'm with 31550 I think there is possibility the hiding was after a non accidental death

How do we know he wasn’t in something if he was placed.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/inside-the-forensic-search-for-william-tyrrell/news-story/eb5c071c9321baa4b1738ebfa186a44f

Ms Grahame on Tuesday told the court: “I pause to say there is actually no evidence that anyone has been seen placing a body here or anywhere else.”

The coroner made the comments as she explained her decision not to call evidence from a researcher on invasive species.

The court has heard Professor Jon Olley, who was on site for the fresh forensic dig around Kendall in November 2021, sent an email to a wildlife expert at the Department of Primary Industries asking if any bones could have been taken or disturbed by wild animals.

The expert, Dr Paul Meek, will not be called as a witness, the court heard.

Ms Grahame said she accepted there were dogs in the Kendall area.

THE CADAVER DOGS
Senior Constable Matthew Gates, from the NSW Police dog unit, told the court that on September 13, 2014 - day after William disappeared - he was involved in a search of Kendall along Batar Creek Rd down to the intersection of Cobb and Co Rd.

He told the court he was also involved in dense bushland in subsequent days and said the area would have been impossible for a three-year-old to navigate.

Senior Constable Adam Aitken is also a part of the NSW Police dog squad and works with cadaver dogs.

He was involved in a search of Kendall, with his dog Digger, on September 15, 2014.

The court was told on Tuesday that the September 15 search did not take in the area around the Cobb and Co Rd and Batar Creek Rd intersection.

He said he was involved in a thorough search of Kendall on a number of occasions in following years.

“The dog’s off lead, we’re allowing the dogs to just work, we’re looking at the same time, the dog’s working 20 to 30 metres in front of me,” Sen Con Aitken said.

The court heard that in Sen Con Aitken’s experience, search dogs can detect cadavers from up to 70m away.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

How do we know he wasn’t in something when he was placed.

We don't. But she was rushed.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/inside-the-forensic-search-for-william-tyrrell/news-story/eb5c071c9321baa4b1738ebfa186a44f

Ms Grahame on Tuesday told the court: “I pause to say there is actually no evidence that anyone has been seen placing a body here or anywhere else.”

The coroner made the comments as she explained her decision not to call evidence from a researcher on invasive species.

The court has heard Professor Jon Olley, who was on site for the fresh forensic dig around Kendall in November 2021, sent an email to a wildlife expert at the Department of Primary Industries asking if any bones could have been taken or disturbed by wild animals.

The expert, Dr Paul Meek, will not be called as a witness, the court heard.

Ms Grahame said she accepted there were dogs in the Kendall area.

THE CADAVER DOGS
Senior Constable Matthew Gates, from the NSW Police dog unit, told the court that on September 13, 2014 - day after William disappeared - he was involved in a search of Kendall along Batar Creek Rd down to the intersection of Cobb and Co Rd.

He told the court he was also involved in dense bushland in subsequent days and said the area would have been impossible for a three-year-old to navigate.

Senior Constable Adam Aitken is also a part of the NSW Police dog squad and works with cadaver dogs.

He was involved in a search of Kendall, with his dog Digger, on September 15, 2014.

The court was told on Tuesday that the September 15 search did not take in the area around the Cobb and Co Rd and Batar Creek Rd intersection.

He said he was involved in a thorough search of Kendall on a number of occasions in following years.

“The dog’s off lead, we’re allowing the dogs to just work, we’re looking at the same time, the dog’s working 20 to 30 metres in front of me,” Sen Con Aitken said.

The court heard that in Sen Con Aitken’s experience, search dogs can detect cadavers from up to 70m away.

What a massive disappointment. Worked the area with dogs and nothing!!

Well what that tells me is that the hiding happened much further away. No I don't think it exculpates her. I think it advances the option of further away and likely photos edits to give them time.

So what was she doing at Cobb & co then?. Had she thrown something and pulled over to turn around and come back? Perhaps