Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Lady O]

There are discrepancies in FM's account of events, which she has yet been unable to explain or account for.
They have been highlighted here, and the lack of explanation is incriminating.
But none of these have been discussed by Harris, (or Box, or other 'journalists').
On the other hand, these people are happy to report on the FMs criticism of the police, at length.

It was the coroner's decision to listen to evidence from Peter the truckdriver, not the police.
The police specifically requested that Lonergan give evidence to the inquest. The DC declined, and her reasons have not been published.
The coroner is controlling what evidence is heard, both privately and publicly.
Journalists are criticising police because 'there is not evidence of this or that', but police have not been given full opportunity to present the entirety of their evidence, only what the coroner has deemed the inquest should hear.

For journalists to suggest that "there is no evidence of this" or "no evidence of that", is selective reporting. They don't know what evidence there is and there isn't. They don't know what the police would have liked to deliver via Lonergan to the inquest. They can only report on what they see and hear. The coroner is only hearing evidence believed to directly impact on the circumstances of William's death. Journalists are painting a picture of police persecuting an innocent FM which may or may not be true, but is irrelevant to the inquest. The coroner needs to establish how William died if possible. If his body was interfered with after he died, that is a secondary matter primarily for the police, and is not of interest to the coroner at least until cause of death has been established.

There has been evidence brought up at the inquest which repudiates much of the FM testimony (including the discrepancies and contradictions in her various statements). But journalists haven't discussed this at all. It's selective reporting.

In my (very minor) experience with journalists, I got to the stage where I would write down the information to present to them (as if it was a press release), so poor was their reporting of spoken word.

I also wonder whether (as with newspaper reporters) they are still submitting their pieces to the editor for his/her editing of their work? If so, the bias may not be from the journalists but from the media outlet itself.

 

[Wallace52]

In my (very minor) experience with journalists, I got to the stage where I would write down the information to present to them (as if it was a press release), so poor was their reporting of spoken word.

I also wonder whether (as with newspaper reporters) they are still submitting their pieces to the editor for his/her editing of their work? If so, the bias may not be from the journalists but from the media outlet itself.

There are some who just file. They just enter in their story and file. Then it goes to print without thorough checks. Because they are journalists, not students having to have their work spell checked by their teacher.

 

[Lady O]

There are some who just file. They just enter in their story and file. Then it goes to print without thorough checks. Because they are journalists, not students having to have their work spell checked by their teacher.

Spell checking is a whole other thing. I'm talking about the Editor, checking their work and adjusting as they see fit.

 

[stormbird]

Would there be anywhere around the cemetery where William may have been hidden either permanently or temporarily? FM drove somewhere, maybe not into the bush as the car would have been dirty. Maybe she turned left on Ellendale and took him to the cemetery area. She would be there in a minute. The cemetery is accessible by vehicle from the other side. This would explain why nobody witnessed her on Batar Creek Road, including Peter the truckie. Maybe when the 000 operator asked about "Ellendale", this was triggering, so she pretended not to know the name of the street? Then years later, recounting the drive, she originally says she turned "left", and needed to be corrected that the riding school was "right" on BCR.
I don't know the layout of the cemetery or its surrounds. Not suggesting William is buried there, but maybe there was a suitable location to hide his body before moving it elsewhere.

There doesn't appear to be vehicle access between Ellendale and the cemetery. This is a screenshot from SixMaps:




What might look to be a road on Google Street View - with a gate across it - is just the driveway to No. 19.

But it might be possible to park at the northern end of Ellendale and walk through the bush.

One of the neighbours from that end of the street gave evidence at an inquest hearing in March 2019:

'A neighbour who had 13 years experience as an SES volunteer said after searching on the first day in the adjoining cemetery, he returned the next day to search thick bush.

Retired school administrator James Opdam agreed with counsel assisting Gerard Craddock, SC, that he did so because he was concerned some areas hadn’t been thoroughly searched.

“The next day, he hadn’t been found so I decided to search this area ... which is very, very dense,” Mr Opdam said.
[I don't know which area that refers to.]

“It becomes very rugged country. There’s a creek ... and the scrub becomes very dense.

“The creek comes down behind all the houses. It’s very rugged.

“It becomes very marshy and boggy towards the south.”

Mr Opdam said in one area the lantana bush was so thick “I walked around the outside of it because I couldn’t get into it”.

News.com.au, 27 March 2019

 

[Angry Red Bull]

You can forget any journalist angle. They are interested in getting the story and most are aligning themselves to do that by supporting FM.

 

[Awakening]

Would there be anywhere around the cemetery where William may have been hidden either permanently or temporarily? FM drove somewhere, maybe not into the bush as the car would have been dirty. Maybe she turned left on Ellendale and took him to the cemetery area. She would be there in a minute. The cemetery is accessible by vehicle from the other side. This would explain why nobody witnessed her on Batar Creek Road, including Peter the truckie. Maybe when the 000 operator asked about "Ellendale", this was triggering, so she pretended not to know the name of the street? Then years later, recounting the drive, she originally says she turned "left", and needed to be corrected that the riding school was "right" on BCR.
I don't know the layout of the cemetery or its surrounds. Not suggesting William is buried there, but maybe there was a suitable location to hide his body before moving it elsewhere.

I’ve wondered this too, but surely that area would have been included in the initial search area.

Not sure if I’m misremembering, but wasn’t FF washing cars on the afternoon of the 12th? Or was that later.

I do wonder how accessible the other part of Benaroon drive is. Many have said you need a 4wd, but I’m wondering if under certain conditions you could drive a certain distance in a Mazda. I remember taking my besties barina on supposed 4wd only roads.

 

[Awakening]

Read through the original 14 Sep Statement if you can. My precis follows.

She talks a lot about the history of William coming into care including the bios.
She goes into detail about the trip up, and the night before, early morning activities, breakfast and orange juice.
She talks about Mummy monsters, grazing her hand, the climbing tree,
Then drawing pictures, taking the photographs, going inside.
Then William going out again, then the dice rolling, the roaring, the Daddy Tiger.
Then William is missing.
Then she walks to the front of the garden, then around the house, then looks inside the house.
Then she says she got the text 'Home in 5' .
Then FF returns home.
THEN FF goes to the Millers, and FM goes down to see AMS.
She says AMS told her she (AMS) would go to the bus stop.
Then FM walks into the street 'a bit before BCR'.
Then thought "I have to call the police"
Then walks back up and dials 000.

NO mention of any drive. No mention of strange cars. No bike riding or crashing bikes. Note the sequence of events. Lots of detail about certain things.

I am a bit surprised that police did not seem to specifically question her about strange cars or people in the street. (The 000 operator was smart enough to, why not police?)

Why was the drive not mentioned in this statement? Did she just forget or was it incriminating?
Why was the bike riding / William crashing into the garden not mentioned? Did she forget or was it later done to explain damage to plants, possibly under the balcony?
Why were the three strange cars not in this statement? Forgotten, or were they needed to support an 'abduction' theory when it started to become obvious William did not leave the property on foot?

The problem this statement created for the FM was the sequence of events as described, simply does not allow room for a logical explanation of the drive. If the drive happened at all, it can only have been made BEFORE anyone was searching for William. Which means the drive was never looking for William. Which means it was the drive which probably removed William from the property.

But according to the media reports yesterday, the drive took place AFTER the 000 call.

 

[Kurve]

I do wonder how accessible the other part of Benaroon drive is. Many have said you need a 4wd, but I’m wondering if under certain conditions you could drive a certain distance in a Mazda. I remember taking my besties barina on supposed 4wd only roads.

It's quite rugged. I think anybody wanting to dispose of a body would stay out of anywhere that might damage the vehicle or kick up a heap of dirt and dust where it would look obvious the car had been taken off road.

 

[31550]

You can forget any journalist angle. They are interested in getting the story and most are aligning themselves to do that by supporting FM.

The media in this country is controlled by a select few people who have vested interests in everything. And I mean everything - the whole social, economic, and political spectrums. Every single word and photograph which is published is done so to appease these people. Anyone who goes rogue will immediately be out of a job, forever.
No journalist, no journalist, is free to write a story and publish it via the mass media without it going through a vetting machine.

 

[31550]

But according to the media reports yesterday, the drive took place AFTER the 000 call.

Evidence? Proof?

 

[Awakening]

There are some who just file. They just enter in their story and file. Then it goes to print without thorough checks. Because they are journalists, not students having to have their work spell checked by their teacher.

I thought you were old like me?

I remember the good old days, when journalists were held to very high standards, and even a minor typo or spelling error was frowned on.

It was strictly facts that were reported and a journalists opinion was never hinted at, unless it was clearly marked an opinion piece.

 

[Earls Smother]

You don't convict people on probabilities. You can on COG lies like C Dawson who sits in prison for lies told without a body or a witness or forensic evidence.

Dawson had obvious motive and there was no other reasonable alternative. His version was complete nonsense, like Greg Lynn's.

The FM's version is confused and erratic, but not so ridiculous as to be incriminating IMO.

 

[31550]

There doesn't appear to be vehicle access between Ellendale and the cemetery. This is a screenshot from SixMaps

Agree. But there does appear to be foot access, and it's only a very short distance between the end of Ellendale and the open part of the cemetery, to which there is easy vehicle access from the main entrance.
It would seem if someone entered from Ellendale with William, they would need to hide him temporarily somewhere close by and move him later, or hand him over to someone with a vehicle, or both.

 

[Awakening]

It's quite rugged. I think anybody wanting to dispose of a body would stay out of anywhere that might damage the vehicle or kick up a heap of dirt and dust where it would look obvious the car had been taken off road.

She could drive the car up to a point where it becomes more dense, then carry him a certain way, using the bush as cover so that no one would see her carrying a small child.

 

[Awakening]

Evidence? Proof?

What do you mean? Did you want the news article?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Read through the original 14 Sep Statement if you can. My precis follows.

She talks a lot about the history of William coming into care including the bios.
She goes into detail about the trip up, and the night before, early morning activities, breakfast and orange juice.
She talks about Mummy monsters, grazing her hand, the climbing tree,
Then drawing pictures, taking the photographs, going inside.
Then William going out again, then the dice rolling, the roaring, the Daddy Tiger.
Then William is missing.
Then she walks to the front of the garden, then around the house, then looks inside the house.
Then she says she got the text 'Home in 5' .
Then FF returns home.
THEN FF goes to the Millers, and FM goes down to see AMS.
She says AMS told her she (AMS) would go to the bus stop.
Then FM walks into the street 'a bit before BCR'.
Then thought "I have to call the police"
Then walks back up and dials 000.

NO mention of any drive. No mention of strange cars. No bike riding or crashing bikes. Note the sequence of events. Lots of detail about certain things.

I am a bit surprised that police did not seem to specifically question her about strange cars or people in the street. (The 000 operator was smart enough to, why not police?)

Why was the drive not mentioned in this statement? Did she just forget or was it incriminating?
Why was the bike riding / William crashing into the garden not mentioned? Did she forget or was it later done to explain damage to plants, possibly under the balcony?
Why were the three strange cars not in this statement? Forgotten, or were they needed to support an 'abduction' theory when it started to become obvious William did not leave the property on foot?

The problem this statement created for the FM was the sequence of events as described, simply does not allow room for a logical explanation of the drive. If the drive happened at all, it can only have been made BEFORE anyone was searching for William. Which means the drive was never looking for William. Which means it was the drive which probably removed William from the property.

I had suggested that the bike riding only surfaced in the WWT podcast. It was countered that it was IN the original statement. Seems that I was right it was only later in WWT podcast..not mentioned by FGM either though podcast says she watched..

Someone had mentioned that bike riding was somehow confirmed at around 9 ish to my saying we didn't know when. If that is correct then they were bike riding close to time FF left 8.40 and FGM seemingly there watching BUT in circumstances she has said he wasn't there at all when she got up. WHAMMY!!!! LIE

I remain convinced FF hit W in his car and he died after 9.2O when they didn't take him to hospital originally.

Whoops 9.37 now lol

SFR subpoenaed that material because it was relevant to case probably to confirm lie.....the bike riding omission

 

[Awakening]

Apologies: it was AFTER she ALERTED a neighbour not after 000 call.

Bit of a worry when I can’t remember what I wrote yesterday.

Post in thread 'Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation'
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...of-assault-intimidation.1375199/post-86014326

 

[31550]

Dawson had obvious motive and there was no other reasonable alternative. His version was complete nonsense, like Greg Lynn's.

The FM's version is confused and erratic, but not so ridiculous as to be incriminating IMO.

Not necessarily ridiculous but incongruous and inconsistent in and of itself. It cannot possibly have happened in the sequence and timing she describes.
There is also the cut on her hand, and the deleted text messages. Real evidence, not definitive, but incriminating.
So, an impossible account of events and several pieces of incriminating evidence. It's not as though the police have nothing at all, as the media and you are suggesting.

 

[31550]

I had suggested that the bike riding only surfaced in the WWT podcast. It was countered that it was IN the original statement. Seems that I was right it was only later in WWT podcast..not mentioned by FGM either though podcast says she watched..

Someone had mentioned that bike riding was somehow confirmed at around 9 ish to my saying we didn't know when. If that is correct then they were bike riding close to time FF left 8.40 and FGM seemingly there watching BUT in circumstances she has said he wasn't there at all when she got up. WHAMMY!!!! LIE

I remain convinced FF hit W in his car and he died after 9.2O when they didn't take him to hospital originally.

Whoops 9.37 now lol

FF has a solid alibi for 9:37. Sorry.

 

[Kurve]

She could drive the car up to a point where it becomes more dense, then carry him a certain way, using the bush as cover so that no one would see her carrying a small child.

The only way to know if that was feasible would be to walk it and try to find the spot where the vehicle was turned around, if it's not possible to continue straight through and do a loop.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

FF has a solid alibi for 9:37. Sorry.

No. FF hits W in car at 8.40 gets up and seems ok but collapses later after playing some more. Delayed death..

By hiding the BR all are trying to exclude the mode of death. Intentional lie imo.

 

[31550]

Apologies: it was AFTER she ALERTED a neighbour not after 000 call.

How does that possibly fit?
FF text at 10.30
FF home 10.35
FM talks to AMS 10.40
FM walks to bus stop near BCR 300m
Looking for William.
FM walks back to house 300m
000 call 10.57 AMS still in street and visiting Savage.
No neighbours see FM driving despite the whole street now looking.

 

[Awakening]

In trying to find information about the timing of the car drive, I found this article 31550

@AngryRedBull note the use of the word clearing.

“In the video, the woman agreed she took a drive in her mother’s car the day William vanished, but strenuously denied allegations that she used the time to dump his body in undergrowth at the corner of Cobb and Co Rd and Batar Creek Rd.

Instead, she said she was looking for him in a frantic state.

THE CAR RIDE

The woman has denied that she dumped William’s body in bushland. However the court has heard that she did take a drive in her mother’s Mazda 3 on the day William disappeared.

However, she said she went down Batar Creek Rd attempting to look for William.

“I drove down and I stopped. I don’t know if it’s a clearing, it’s a slightly wider part of the road… So I stopped and I’m looking out the window and I’m thinking he’s not here,” the woman told the Crime Commission.

“I’m thinking he’s not here. This is ridiculous.”

“Then what happened,” Ms Callan asked.

“Then I went back,” she said.

The court has been told that police believe she used her mother’s Mazda 3 to dump the body on the corner of Batar Creek Rd and Cobb and Co Rd – about a minute’s drive from her mother’s house on Benaroon Drive.

It’s an allegation that has been consistently denied by the foster mother.

The court was told on Thursday that the woman told the Crime Commission that she got into her mother’s car at some point but was unsure of the timing.

“You may have gotten into your car and driven down to Benaroon Drive and turned onto Batar Creek Rd before (the foster father) got home,” Ms Callan asked.

“I don’t know,” the foster mother replied.”
I’m sorry, but not remembering when you took the car drive is BS. You might not know the exact time but you’d know whether it was before or after the FF returned.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/secret-william-tyrrell-hearing-set-to-be-revealed/news-story/913a24391a9d8f1822b794a7b3c70cbd

 

[BFew]

When Harris goes out of her way to tell us what there is no evidence of, but fails to tell us what there is evidence of, she is not acting as a responsible journalist, but pushing a selective viewpoint.

So you think the media was allowed into the closed court or has access to the evidence from closed court on Wednesday ?
Seriously!

 

[31550]

“I don’t know,” the foster mother replied.”
I’m sorry, but not remembering when you took the car drive is BS. You might not know the exact time but you’d know whether it was before or after the FF returned.

Well Everyone here knows I've been banging on about this * for months if not years. Finally another person gets it (I hope). The drive as described makes no sense. And if it makes no sense it's probably not true.

* Just like I was banging on about the photos I guess.