Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following initials to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above initials. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[BFew]

Please pardon my turn of phrase BFew it’s been a very long month (week).

Since when can a postie be exempt?

What I actually meant was that the Postie Police interview needs to make sure it does not put the Postie at too much personal risk (because of the nature of her work) when parts of it are made public at some point in time.

 

[Wallace52]

​

If the U turn was at the end of the road up near the fire track, the vehicle would have gone past 48 Benaroon and the other houses on both sides. Would it not then be incorrect to say the car did a U turn at the FGMs house?

I must be missing something. Did the Crabbes say the U turn was at the FGMs driveway or the end of Benaroon Drive?

“And the one thing that, among all that kind of long and detailed raking over of the evidence we've heard, is he talked about how the neighbors heard a car that morning. They heard a car on the gravel at the top end of Benaroon Drive, which is just outside the house where William was staying. And he says you can't prove that there was a car, but there's definitely evidence of a car being there.

And no one knows, no one's been able to prove who drove that car.

Yeah, Peter and Sherelle Crabb. So I went back and looked into that. And so they got home about 9.30 in the morning that day.

And they both testified in 2019 that they heard a car doing a U-turn in the street. They both thought it sounded like the postman at the time.

Yeah.

And Sherelle testified that the car was moving quite fast. But I did wonder, because there's been a lot of people testifying about cars, I did wonder the significance of the Crabbs in particular. Did he mention why he brought them up?

He's confident about the Crabbs' evidence because he says one of the detectives[…]”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: The Evidence | 5, 8 Nov 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Wallace52]

What I actually meant was that the Postie Police interview needs to make sure it does not put the Postie at too much personal risk (because of the nature of her work) when parts of it are made public at some point in time.

Is that kind of like the same premise as the Oral B ads where you’re allowed to see the dentists back but not his face because he’s a dentist? Are posties ordered that same obscure protection?

 

[BFew]

Is that kind of like the same premise as the Oral B ads where you’re allowed to see the dentists back but not his face because he’s a dentist? Are posties ordered that same observe protection?

Only the female ones.

 

[Kurve]

“And the one thing that, among all that kind of long and detailed raking over of the evidence we've heard, is he talked about how the neighbors heard a car that morning. They heard a car on the gravel at the top end of Benaroon Drive, which is just outside the house where William was staying. And he says you can't prove that there was a car, but there's definitely evidence of a car being there.

Then the "top end of the street" must be closer to the corner and the FGMs house, not the top end where the fire trail starts.

 

[shorsky]

The carport is just next to the verandah where FGM was sitting. I don't think she would have missed FM taking her car.

The carport is at the top of the rather long drive which has garden bed on side. That is retainer-walled down to the next level.

I think it would be quite easy to roll a car down the driveway without even starting the motor.

But was there talk of a 2nd garage or car parking space .

 

[shorsky]

From Chumley's book:

To pinpoint distances and directions, Mr Craddock asked Anna which way she’d turned onto Batar Creek Road. Initially, she said left, toward the Riding for the Disabled centre. But that landmark lies to the south, a right turn. Anna became flustered, telling our learned friend she wasn’t good with compass point directions.

Mr Craddock replied in a measured tone,‘I’m simply asking you to indicate whether you turned left or right.’

Riding for the Disabled was a RIGHT turn onto BCR.

a 6 min drive from 48 Benaroon Dr. .. and way past the intersection with Cobb & Co.

 

[shorsky]

Dunno. Quick fact check before posting would save us all a lot of confusion and we wouldn't have to waste time on this stuff.

I originally asked the question, and just to be clear, I did ‘fact check’, which led to more confusion. . sometimes that happens to people.
I try to be considerate of people instead of rude shaming, but hey, each to their own. I apologise for wasting your time.

 

[shorsky]

Dumb question. How the heck was Michelle White supposed to know? And no, foster carers are not required to give details of their vehicles to agencies. As if agencies have the time and resources to track that sort of stuff. How about the police do police work and find out about vehicles? That's their job.

Was MW asked this question in relation to her ‘professional capacity’ or was she asked it in relation to her suggested ‘friendship’ with FM I wonder

 

[Underarrest_]

Then the "top end of the street" must be closer to the corner and the FGMs house, not the top end where the fire trail starts.

I think the time the car was heard according to Dann was between 10.08 and 10.13.

 

[shorsky]

Yes, that’s very true. So, so inept and ridiculous was this line of thinking that he had wandered off and that was it. IMO

Surely the original police should have had to consider homicide first and then moved from that point instead of focussing on the wandering off theory.

Also the foster mother knew he had been abducted, so why didn’t they focus more on that angle?

IMO the initial police responders should have had an open consideration / focus & on the lookout for every possibility.

Their questions and searches should have been absolutely stringent and nothing should have been left to chance as the initial unspoilt environment & memories are so important for evidence gathering.

Ron Iddles says ‘Assume nothing, Believe nothing, Check everything’, and I think I’ve heard him say that the first 24 hours are crucial in any investigation. (Shame he’s not heading up SFR )

 

[shorsky]

Do we know if the foster grandfather's car was in the garage?

This seems like a silly question because surely we'd have heard of it before and if a car's been sitting for a while, they usually need a jump start so she probably wouldn't have taken that even if it was still there.

Why do we think the foster grandparents had a car each ?

I think FGM was probably still driving their car. She had been out on Thursday she said, and I surmised she drove.

 

[craffles]

* Truck driver testimony seemingly irrelevant to foster mother body moving theory proposed by police.

* There was no forensic evidence was found of William or William’s remains from the latest search. They found some kangaroo bones.

* No evidence found of William’s clothes or shoes, or any kind of fabric linked to anyone that might be part of the police theory

* Suspicious and unusual phone call recorded of foster mother talking to friend, going pretty specific into body disposal and recovery ideas

* 2014 walk through of child who cannot be named played <closed court>

* Audio of foster mother abusing child who cannot be named played <closed court>

* Video of child who cannot be named played, from 2022 - unclear if that is a police interview or statement but the video was recorded by police <closed court>

* Police lawyers are pressing for an expert witness to provide evidence that William’s remains may have been taken by a fox or a wild animal to be heard in Dec tranche

* Police lawyers are pressing for the foster mother to be ordered to take the stand on the week of 16-20 Dec 2024 and be questioned in the Coroner’s Court

Thank you so much for going to the effort of writing this up. I really appreciate it.

 

[shorsky]

Something I saw on another forum: the Kendall Tennis Club's CCTV camera time was 14 minutes slow. Is this correct? Until now we've been told the slowness was 9 minutes e.g. see a quote from a police interview of a neighbour in 2017:

Daily Mail 05 Dec 2021 updated 30 Jun 2022

I can't ask about this on the other forum because they banned me from posting on the Tyrrell thread. Can anyone here confirm that the inquest times for the movements of Peter the truck driver included the information that the CCTV camera times were 14 minutes slow? If so, was it Mr Craddock who said this or someone else? Thank you.

Thanks for the refresher on this Stormbird, but like you the 14 mins was something I’ve not previously heard…. and going by the signed statement, police must’ve believed it was 9 mins.

From what I recall there was no mention of times or CCTV footage associated with Peter’s evidence at the inquest

However I have wondered why Wendy Hudson didn’t have to answer questions at the inquest.

Donoghue has been adamant about the call she received, although the 9.43am reported time of his departure from tennis courts indicates the phone call to be very close to the 9.37 am taking of that iconic photo. IMO

(14 mins slow would better suit the narrative in my tiny mind )

 

[shorsky]

Slightly related - do we know why the deputy coroner was so interested in Peter the truck driver, and was the black Camry or its driver ever identified? Wouldn't think that there were too many black Camrys in NSW in 2014. But maybe focus on those in northern NSW registered to or associated with blonde females. Not exactly a needle in a haystack.

It’s a mystery to me. . so far the whole week provided no new information & certainly nothing to back up their theory that FM is the one who should be in the headlights. … Coroner could’ve read all that crap in notes & saved the court time !

 

[shorsky]

Yes it does. If you drove out of BD you would turn right is that correct?
I thought the riding school was always at the show ground which would mean you would turn left when you left BD.

And that’s the confusion as apparently there were 2 riding schools

 

[shorsky]

re: "... why the woman driving the black camry that Peter the truckie witnessed was also parked outside the Kendall op shop because isn't that also near the post office?"

I wouldn't say the op shop is near the post office:


View attachment 2161413

screenshot from SixMaps (which I just noticed is being decommissioned soon?!), marked up by me:

yellow = post office
red = op shop car park
green = my guess at the area the CCTV was facing

So the Postie reappears into the equation & there now appears to be discrepancies with the time of postal delivery in Benaroon. Originally I heard she was basically eliminated because she had done a much earlier delivery. However ‘someone’ has suggested in the last day or 2, that may not be the case.

And now we hear all this additional information re uniforms, her description etc. She may not use the black Camry for work, but she also may not change out of her work gear in order to run errands in her private vehicle.

Surely they’ve ID’d the postie & her vehicles - surely they didn’t waste Peter’s time just to fill time ???

 

[shorsky]

It's nice of you to direct us down memory lane in search of the CCTV camera times information but those older posts don't mention it.

Do you know who decided the camera was 9 minutes slow, and who discovered that it was actually 14 minutes slow instead? Thanks.

Hey Stormbird, that post did state ‘ Detective Senior Constable Roberts has told me that the camera time is incorrect and is 9 minutes slow,' his statement says’

But I have no idea where the 14 mins came from. I think someone mentioned up above that may be a miscommunication and it related to times associated with Peter the Truck Driver - which is interesting because we were discussing after his inquest appearance that no times were given

 

[shorsky]

He should have told his superiors everything he knew before he left the force.

There shouldn’t be new evidence coming from him in Sept 2022.

I don’t think it means it’s New evidence, just because we haven’t heard it before.

 

[shorsky]

The formal handover has been disputed. There was a handover, it's just that Gary Jubelin wasn't allowed to do it.

What a crock of… . Such appalling behaviour from people who hold such an important & powerful position in our society. I remember teaching my kids that if ever they were lost, in danger, unsure etc - find a policeman. You can trust them !

Sadly - would not be confident or comfortable to say that to my grandchildren.

 

[shorsky]

Well they wouldn’t have heard the foster father because he was like “William”, “William”, the most timid shout-out one could muster.

AMS said she heard him - admittedly she was on the street .

 

[31550]

And that’s the confusion as apparently there were 2 riding schools

Really? In 2014? Where were the two riding schools (for the disabled)? Or are you referring to the Pony Club?

The focus has always been on the 'Riding School for the Disabled' which in 2014 was located at a property shown in media photos as 'Summerwoods'. This is the location where police are alleging FM drove.

This riding school relocated to near the showgrounds in 2017.

 

[31550]

a 6 min drive from 48 Benaroon Dr. .. and way past the intersection with Cobb & Co.

How do you get the 6 minutes? One way or round trip?
Which location are you talking about now?
The intersection to Cobb and Co is about a 2 minute drive (at normal speed) from the FGM house according to Google Maps. (I haven't driven it).
It's this location which was searched in the big dig.
IMO If FM was driving slowly, looking for William then it could take longer - maybe 4 or 5 minutes.
Then a minute walking around, and back to FGM house in 2 minutes.

Or Are you talking about another location which is 6 minutes drive away?

If she drove 6minutes at normal speed away from Benaroon Drive to another location, that would be a 30-40 minute walk for an adult, and an impossible distance for a 3YO to travel on foot given the elapsed time!

 

[truecrimepath]

Yeah they think that but they can’t prove it, can they?

How can they think she threw something out of a car when there is actually no witness that we know of who actually saw her there?

 

[31550]

How can they think she threw something out of a car when there is actually no witness that we know of who actually saw her there?

IMO that whole 'threw something' was just 'chicken feed' from someone in SFR to someone in the media (DM) so that they would publish an article with that vague allegation that FM was seen possibly throwing something.

This would then potentially flush out a witness who MAY have seen FM on BCR or thought they had, OR put the wind up FM, make her nervous, and cause her to spill the beans.

It's a police tactic. Mention something 'off the record' to a 'journalist' so they can generate a bit of interest. It's not an official statement, but the journalist will think it's a 'good story' worthy of reporting.