Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following initials to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above initials. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Wallace52]

There's an answer to how much CCTV footage the police had. They got CCTV from 12 businesses within Kendall and examined CCTV from another 169 outside Kendall.

So it wasn't just the tennis club to be relied on if the CCTV there was well placed.

Latest episode, the podcast Witness.

That would have sorted out the time discrepancy of the Tennis Club CCTV, surely, as they had 11 other CCTV cameras to compare it to.

Where was the Kendall police station CCTV that day? And what did it pick up?

What whilst I am at it: What were the fosters wearing to their police station interviews (at Port or Kendall) and what car did they drive to those interviews and did those CCTV cameras pick up anything interesting when they were coming and going from those interviews?

 

[Awakening]

Yes. You know what I actually think.

I can’t see this being progressed without challenging some of the so called facts in the case. I can’t see investigators getting out of their mind set. We have no evidence for any third party abduction.

Craddock has it in his head the time line is correct from the very first hearings in 2019. He has never wavered in that belief. I would love to see the evidence for that and whether it stands up to scrutiny.

The whole week was about throwing the police theory under a bus, he is clearing the deck for an open finding.

Ask yourself, are they any closer than they were in September, 2014? If the answer is no, it’s cold case. Time to turn off the money tap.

Agreed. Unless someone comes forward or new evidence is found then sadly, this case is done.

 

[Underarrest_]

That would have sorted out the time discrepancy of the Tennis Club CCTV, surely, as they had 11 other CCTV cameras to compare it to.

Where was the Kendall police station CCTV that day? And what did it pick up?

What whilst I am at it: What were the fosters wearing to their police station interviews (at Port or Kendall) and what car did they drive to those interviews and did those CCTV cameras pick up anything interesting when they were coming and going from those interviews?

I’m wondering if they’ve got evidence from cctv or a witness of FM carrying something in the car.

 

[Lady O]

I thought you could walk from below the balcony in the front garden past the front door of the house to the carport?

In any case it didn't have to be a balcony fall - that is what the police are suggesting, but I think something more sinister happened.

Yes, I didn't realise how high that lower driveway was above the level of the fern garden below the balcony, until the search in 2021. Red arrow shows concrete block retaining wall.

 

[Wallace52]

Once a body is found we have forensics and the case will further

When might that be? <me, patiently waiting>

I don't think it's as dire as what you suggest..With what we now know you can probably say that Cobb & co is nonsense

Oh for sure. As if she would tell the investigators exactly where she put the body! She’s not silly!

it didn't have to be a balcony fall - that is what the police are suggesting, but I think something more sinister happened.

That would, in some senses explain the relatively calm-sounding 000 call and provide a more sensible motive for body removal, if it wasn’t an accident.

 

[Underarrest_]

That would have sorted out the time discrepancy of the Tennis Club CCTV, surely, as they had 11 other CCTV cameras to compare it to.

Where was the Kendall police station CCTV that day? And what did it pick up?

What whilst I am at it: What were the fosters wearing to their police station interviews (at Port or Kendall) and what car did they drive to those interviews and did those CCTV cameras pick up anything interesting when they were coming and going from those interviews?

Ok I’ll bite, what’s with the clothes they’re wearing to the interviews?
Maybe footage seen dumping clothes?

 

[stormbird]

That would have sorted out the time discrepancy of the Tennis Club CCTV, surely, as they had 11 other CCTV cameras to compare it to.

Where was the Kendall police station CCTV that day? And what did it pick up?

What whilst I am at it: What were the fosters wearing to their police station interviews (at Port or Kendall) and what car did they drive to those interviews and did those CCTV cameras pick up anything interesting when they were coming and going from those interviews?

Are you joking about the Kendall police station?

 

[Wallace52]

Are you joking about the Kendall police station?

No? Do they not have CCTV?

 

[Wallace52]

Ok I’ll bite, what’s with the clothes they’re wearing to the interviews?
Maybe footage seen dumping clothes?

Well they are there for 9 days in Kendall <Michelle W said she was there for 9 days> with no washing machine. They would have brought only enough clothes for a long weekend. 9-3= 6 so they have to generate 6 more days worth of clothes than what they came with, and they have to do this without a functioning washing machine.

So I want to know, what clothes are the foster parents wearing on
Day 1
Day 2
Day 3

and so on… and yeah, if I am a detective on the case then I want to know if the FM ducked into the Op Shop to buy more clothes, and I want to know what she was wearing on the day William disappeared and how many times she got changed on that day, especially between 7am - 11:30am.

If she’s changed and dumped clothes instead of washing them, I want to know that too.

It’s just as important to get pictures of her sets of clothing as it it to get those cork board pics of William’s entire outfit.

I also want CCTV of the local rubbish tip to see if she disposed of any clothes or anything there….

I want to know if she’s filmed with her husband and what their body language is like as they <reportedly> have a “normal” relationship and if she hits or hurts William’s sister on CCTV at all during this time frame.

 

[stormbird]

No? Do they not have CCTV?

Can you point out on a map where Kendall Police Station is please?

 

[Wallace52]

Can you point out on a map where Kendall Police Station is please?

Lol. Ok, I got;
2 Hay Street
PORT MACQUARIE 2444

So why does it say this in Ep 6 of Witness?

“The Strike Force is committed. They set up a dedicated room in a local police station. But as a reporter covering the investigation, I hear odd things like how they get told to move out of the room when the local cops want to have a meeting.”

From Witness: William Tyrrell: How did we get here? | 6, 10 Nov 2024



<the local police station is 35 km away >

Or are they talking about

101 Bold Street
LAURIETON 2443

??

 

[Underarrest_]

Well they are there for 9 days in Kendall <Michelle W said she was there for 9 days> with no washing machine. They would have brought only enough clothes for a long weekend. 9-3= 6 so they have to generate 6 more days worth of clothes than what they came with, and they have to do this without a functioning washing machine.

So I want to know, what clothes are the foster parents wearing on
Day 1
Day 2
Day 3

and so on… and yeah, if I am a detective on the case then I want to know if the FM ducked into the Op Shop to buy more clothes, and I want to know what she was wearing on the day William disappeared and how many times she got changed on that day, especially between 7am - 11:30am.

If she’s changed and dumped clothes instead of washing them, I want to know that too.

It’s just as important to get pictures of her sets of clothing as it it to get those cork board pics of William’s entire outfit.

I also want CCTV of the local rubbish tip to see if she disposed of any clothes or anything there….

I want to know if she’s filmed with her husband and what their body language is like as they <reportedly> have a “normal” relationship and if she hits or hurts William’s sister on CCTV at all during this time frame.

I’m not sure when the washing machine was fixed but could have hand washed so would be interesting how many different sets of clothes they have or if they’ve bought any at all.
I hope they didn’t have cctv of FD being hurt and did nothing at the time.
Could be cctv of disposing clothes.

 

[Wallace52]

I’m not sure when the washing machine was fixed but could have hand washed so would be interesting how many different sets of clothes they have or if they’ve bought any at all.
I hope they didn’t have cctv of FD being hurt and did nothing at the time.
Could be cctv of disposing clothes.

I also want to know if there was a local laundromat, and if they had CCTV and if that was checked.

 

[Underarrest_]

I also want to know if there was a local laundromat, and if they had CCTV and if that was checked.

I think the nearest one is in Laurieton.

 

[Poppy Penny]

I also want to know if there was a local laundromat, and if they had CCTV and if that was checked.

From memory, I believe the washing machine was fixed by Bill Spedding by the following Thursday. I may be wrong.

 

[LRitz]

I’m not sure when the washing machine was fixed but could have hand washed so would be interesting how many different sets of clothes they have or if they’ve bought any at all.
I hope they didn’t have cctv of FD being hurt and did nothing at the time.
Could be cctv of disposing clothes.

This would be interesting.

This also gets back to the washing machine as well. If, as is suggested, it is only a short weekend visit why was the washing machine repair such an emergency. Why did FM ring repair man and want to hassle him over the repair. She rang first thing on Friday around 9:00. Ringing any earlier would have looked odd. Then forget the phone call, and FGM in her walkthrough denies any phone calls (though it is possible she did not know FM made the call). FGM knew he was waiting for a part, so can't be fixed before this, so phone call is pointless. FPs would have easily brought enough clothes for 3 to 4 changes. A couple of extra t shirts for the kids. No big deal. The linen and towels could easily wait a few days to be done later by the FGM.

Maybe they knew their stay in Kendall would be delayed, and had packed a bit more. Same reason they had to put the cats into the cat minding. Cats for 3 days OK, but cats for 7 days a worry.

If they disposed of clothes or anything incriminating, IMO, it will not be easy to find. I would be looking in the Camden Haven River, maybe under the Kendall Rd Bridge. FF had enough time to make a quick stop off between Tennis Club CCTV and arrival in Lakewood.

I think (as in a previous comment) that FM wanted to make sure repair man did NOT come on Friday morning. They did not want any witnesses in the house that morning - as always IMO only.

 

[LRitz]

Sounds feasible. Walks from side yard into lower garage, backs car in to lower garage and back to upper garage.
Ready to drive car out after neighbours are alerted (which is the police theory.)

What I don't understand, or am I missing something, why is it thought she alerted neighbours like AM, and then drive FGM. Why not alert neighbours, start the "search" after she got back. She is in charge of the timeline.

 

[31550]

What I don't understand, or am I missing something, why is it thought she alerted neighbours like AM, and then drive FGM. Why not alert neighbours, start the "search" after she got back. She is in charge of the timeline.

If the drive was after alerting neighbours, why did none of the neighbours see her in the car either on the way out or the way back? Not possible.
AMS did not leave the street, other than to go to the Savages house. The Millers had been alerted.
AMS says she sent FM down to the bus shelter and back. She would have driven past LH's place (twice) while she was unloading groceries and keeping an eye on two small children. There is just no time for the drive after talking to AMS and before dialling 000 IMO. The street was on alert for William, and by the time police arrived several neighbours were in the street.

The drive MUST have been before talking to AMS, which means it was before FF returned home. Which means the drive was the FIRST thing she did when William went 'missing'. Which means IMO the drive was NOT 'looking for William'.

 

[LRitz]

Today is November 10, 2024.

So, let’s say the NSW Police homicide squad charged the foster mother today and somehow the case ended up in Court: Even if the cops produce everything they have on the foster mum at a Judge Only trial, right now, there would still be the issue of reasonable doubt. And it certainly wouldn’t pass through a jury, because again, reasonable doubt and 12 people would have to reach a consensus that the case was proven without reasonable doubt.

What the stike force really need is for the Coroner to rule that William is deceased, and then after that they can move forward with their case against the foster mum. If they have enough evidence.

There is no sense in charging her until the Coroner has declared him dead. It just won’t hold up. You can’t be charged with moving the body of a child who is still alive.



IMO

I also think that if they ever do lay further charges on the FM, they might lay the charge of interfering with a corpse before the charge of perverting the course of justice and just deal with one at a time.

'That's the reason we're here,' counsel assisting, Gerard Craddock SC, told Monday's hearing.

'The theory [is that] William must have died at [his foster grandmother's home at] 48 Benaroon Drive [in Kendall],' said Mr Craddock.

The "Theory" is! If it is a theory it is what police are proposing as an idea. Footyforum has had lots of theories. So they have no idea. If death was at FGM's house, why is there no evidence? IMO this theory is wrong. What if he was taken from the house alive and his death and the crime scene is somewhere else. This fits in better with no evidence and cadaver dogs not finding anything. Remember it is thought that he left from the driveway. Again IMO only.

And what if FM ended up in court? Well it would be interesting. Maybe FM could ask for review of forensics of roar photo,(TCP would be happy) and get the time changed to ~8:00 am, which would put FF back in the picture (literally).

 

[Kurve]

AMS did not leave the street,

AMS?

 

[Lady O]

If the drive was after alerting neighbours, why did none of the neighbours see her in the car either on the way out or the way back? Not possible.
AMS did not leave the street, other than to go to the Savages house. The Millers had been alerted.
AMS says she sent FM down to the bus shelter and back. She would have driven past LH's place (twice)AA while she was unloading groceries and keeping an eye on two small children. There is just no time for the drive after talking to AMS and before dialling 000 IMO. The street was on alert for William, and by the time police arrived several neighbours were in the street.

The drive MUST have been before talking to AMS, which means it was before FF returned home. Which means the drive was the FIRST thing she did when William went 'missing'. Which means IMO the drive was NOT 'looking for William'.

Absolutely, that is the only explanation.

 

[Kurve]

Absolutely, that is the only explanation.

Didn't we read in the press that the cops say the FM alerted the neighbours first, while William was in the boot, then she got in the car and disposed of him?

I'm at a loss to know how they worked that out btw.

 

[31550]

The "Theory" is! If it is a theory it is what police are proposing as an idea. Footyforum has had lots of theories. So they have no idea. If death was at FGM's house, why is there no evidence? IMO this theory is wrong. What if he was taken from the house alive and his death and the crime scene is somewhere else. This fits in better with no evidence and cadaver dogs not finding anything. Remember it is thought that he left from the driveway. Again IMO only.

And what if FM ended up in court? Well it would be interesting. Maybe FM could ask for review of forensics of roar photo,(TCP would be happy) and get the time changed to ~8:00 am, which would put FF back in the picture (literally).

From the coroners perspective. It must first be decided if William is alive or dead, and then when and where he died.
There is enough evidence to suggest that he was alive at FGMs, and has been removed in a vehicle, not on foot.
That is beyond reasonable doubt. Could not have walked far in a short time, no scent off the property.
The chances of him being alive when he left (opportunistic abduction) are very slim due to the short timeframe and remote location. Therefore, beyond reasonable doubt he died on the property.
That is really all the coroner needs to decide.

Who moved him, where, and why are of interest to the coroner, but the coroner does not need to make a determination on this. Although IMO the FM is the most likely person on the balance or probability to have done this. Is there reasonable doubt? Certainly. But on the balance of probability she is the only person with means and opportunity to remove William from the property.

That's all the coroner needs IMO. The rest is up to SFR.

 

[31550]

AMS?

Anne Maree Sharpley. After FM spoke to her, she remained on Benaroon Drive. Had the FM then got in her car and driven off, and back, AMS would have seen this. She did not.

 

[Kurve]

Anne Maree Sharpley. After FM spoke to her, she remained on Benaroon Drive. Had the FM then got in her car and driven off, and back, AMS would have seen this. She did not.

Yep, I know Sharpley appears not to have seen her on this drive. Nobody did.