Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[31550]

Did they reenact FF leaving the GFM's house?
Would have been interesting to see him at 9:03 in the kitchen and at the same time being past Kendall driving to Lakewood.

I want to see the reenactment of her sprinting from BCR to FGM house in under a minute then activating the cloaking shield so that Anne Maree didn't see her as she drove back down Benaroon, then waving to the semi trailer driver who wasn't Peter, then activating the cloaking device once again on the way back, racing in and grabbing the phone to call 000 without being out of breath.

 

[LRitz]

Experts gave evidence that WT's spiderman suit would still be in existence if left at Batar Creek Rd, and that WT's bones would have been caught in the dams if he was washed away into water.

They said that no forensic evidence has ever been found.

William was in a spiderman suit in the photo (see I did not mention the time).
We can not assume what William was wearing after this. Assume nothing.
No forensic evidence. Maybe they have the wrong crime scene - possible.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Losing further credibility imo is not a risk the brass would have been prepared to take.

'Testing a theory' isn't great framing when dozens of cops over three weeks dug up a huge area on Batar Creek Road and turned Kendall upside down again over three weeks on NEW INFORMATION.

I believe press sympathetic to the Fosters first used the word 'theory' to undermine the cops and it's still going on.

I think that is why the police made it clear that the 2021 digging up of the Batar Creek Road area was under coroners instructions.

The same reason why Mr Craddock made sure the public know that the coroner didn't request the crime commission hearing or the request for advice to the DPP.

So each can maintain their credibility.

The place where the police went wrong is by making the 2021 search so very public. The search had to be done. It did not have to be done with such an enormously high profile brought on by police press conferences. Barriers could have been set up to keep the press at a distance, in the way that has been done for targeted searches for other people.

 

[Lady O]

You think the cops went down this route and this far on nothing but a vibe?

I didn't say that. I said "believe". Belief is not proof.

 

[Kurve]

I think it’s a fair assumption that FM lied.

She also lied and denied assaults and kicking to actually marking, to then try a mental health defence when the evidence was towards a long history of discipline by striking.

That was eye opening.

 

[LRitz]

Obviously a typo 16th - 20th.

Obviously.
No errors here

 

[InTheBleachers]

She also lied and denied assaults and kicking to actually marking, to then try a mental health defence when the evidence was towards a long history of discipline by striking.

That was eye opening.

The evidence showed no pattern of violence. I don't know if you can read this article or not as it might be paywalled.

Magistrate McIntyre listened to the 1,000 hours of of recordings done by the police. She noted for the record that transcripts provided by the police were taken out of context. She found no pattern of violence.

The child was interviewed twice with about 750 questions asked each time. The magistrate said some of those questions were leading questions.
The child is quoted from the interviews as saying the FM is nice and easy to talk to. That she could be bossy and was always telling the child what to do.

Which, of course, is not to condone what happened. But gives more insight into no pattern of violence. Even if it is not what people might like to hear.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/police-scrutiny-of-william-tyrrells-foster-parents-extraordinary/news-story/e49e0a6bdc9a079591ca49f226a665bb?amp

 

[Awakening]

So she was not present herself when she took the drive?

Exact? Sounds like she can not even put it sequence before or after other events. She walked down to the end of the road towards the bus stop after seeing Anne Maree . She does not say I have already looked there.

Yes. As per an earlier post I made, where the FM was repeatedly asked at the crime commission what time she took the drive, and she repeatedly said she didn’t know or I can’t remember.

Couldn’t even give an approximate time. In attempt to get some idea she’s asked if the drive took place before or after FF returned and she answered I don’t know to that too.

 

[Kurve]

The evidence showed no pattern of violence. I don't know if you can read this article or not as it might be paywalled.

Magistrate McIntyre listened to the 1,000 hours of of recordings done by the police. She noted for the record that transcripts provided by the police were taken out of context. She found no pattern of violence.

The child was interviewed twice with about 750 questions asked each time. The magistrate said some of those questions were leading questions.
The child is quoted from the interviews as saying the FM is nice and easy to talk to. That she could be bossy and was always telling the child what to do.

Which, of course, is not to condone what happened. But gives more insight into no pattern of violence. Even if it is not what people might like to hear.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/police-scrutiny-of-william-tyrrells-foster-parents-extraordinary/news-story/e49e0a6bdc9a079591ca49f226a665bb?amp

I would call assault by kicking and disciplining with an implement over time, a history. History includes more than 1000 hours of recordings that were available to the magistrate.

We've had a long discussion about this in the earlier thread.

 

[Awakening]

~10:40?
FF returns home at 10.35 met by FM in carport at which time there is the "Have you got William?" FF goes to the Millers and FM goes to Anne Maree. Give her a minute to get there and find her and ask if she's seen a little boy, and for Anne Maree to comfort her and tell her about the bus shelter. I reckon that just about makes 10.40 but you can say 10.37 or 10.38 if you like.

This is according to FM. Who we know is unreliable narrator.

According to various media reports, FM didn’t encounter AMS to 11:30.

 

[LRitz]

The deputy coroner made a point of saying,
“I pause to say there is actually no evidence that anyone has been seen placing a body here or anywhere else.”

How about saying, "There is actually no evidence that supports anything the FM has told us about her movements that morning"? There is no evidence that William ever 'went missing'.

There is no evidence that the FM looked anywhere for William before the 000 call. There is no evidence that the FF looked anywhere for William before the 000 call. There is no evidence that the FGM looked anywhere for William at all. There is no evidence for the FM's whereabouts between 9:37 and 10:40. There is no evidence for the FGM's whereabouts between 9:37 and around 12:30 (Wendy Hudson) that I can find.

If nobody can prove they 'looked for' William until after 10:40am, then why is it assumed he went missing so much earlier? Why is it assumed he went missing at all?

Agree: It is possible there was no initial search by FM before FF returns.

All that searching and calling for William. But even FGM says it was quiet when she allegedly followed FM to the front of the house. Why did she not hear FM calling out? Maybe FM did not go to search around the house. Maybe FGM did not follow FM towards the road. Thats why FGM did not know what way she herself walked! They did not bother to enact a false search. They were, possible, inside having tea and getting there stories straight, again all IMO.

Why did the neighbours in a quiet morning not hear people yelling in the street and come out?

I spoke to someone who could not see her 4 year old while playing in a park. She said she went into total panic mode, running wildly around and SCREAMING. He was found in just minutes and had wandered a short distance behind some bushes. Any way, the point is she said she was totally hoarse from this, her voice had gone. Yet FM yelling for William from 10:25 for say half an hour sounds like her voice is OK on the 000 call. Just a thought.

 

[InTheBleachers]

I would call assault by kicking and disciplining with an implement over time, a history. History includes more than 1000 hours of recordings.

We've had a long discussion about this in the earlier thread.

The magistrate is probably better placed to know what is on the 1,000 hours of recordings. Having listened to them all. It doesn't sound as if any evidence was brought in about any long history. There is nothing about that in the court reporting. And she did say no pattern of violence.

I know there was an incident where FM was rightly told not to put a child outside for time out. Other than that, this bruising of the eye thing is pure conjecture. WT's visit to the hospital wasn't listed as potential child abuse as far as I know. Have you seen something official that says it was?

 

[Kurve]

The magistrate is probably better placed to know what is on the 1,000 hours of recordings. Having listened to them all. It doesn't sound as if any evidence was brought in about any long history. There is nothing about that in the court reporting.

I know there was an incident where FM was rightly told not to put a child outside for time out. Other than that, this bruising of the eye thing is pure conjecture. WT's visit to the hospital wasn't listed as potential child abuse as far as I know. Have you seen something official that says it was?

Are you trying to minimise what she did?

I'm drawing attention to the 1,000 hours of very limited recordings. Those recordings also hold details of the FM hunting through the house looking for the implement to hit the child with and demanding to know where she hid it.

That indicates a history of using the implements to hit the child with.

So the magistrate couldn't prove a pattern on the limited recordings that were available, that's what I'm saying.

Kids also can be horribly abused over a long period of time and still praise their parents, holding on to and relishing any act of kindness.

 

[Wallace52]

The evidence showed no pattern of violence. I don't know if you can read this article or not as it might be paywalled.

Magistrate McIntyre listened to the 1,000 hours of of recordings done by the police. She noted for the record that transcripts provided by the police were taken out of context. She found no pattern of violence.

The child was interviewed twice with about 750 questions asked each time. The magistrate said some of those questions were leading questions.
The child is quoted from the interviews as saying the FM is nice and easy to talk to. That she could be bossy and was always telling the child what to do.

Which, of course, is not to condone what happened. But gives more insight into no pattern of violence. Even if it is not what people might like to hear.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/police-scrutiny-of-william-tyrrells-foster-parents-extraordinary/news-story/e49e0a6bdc9a079591ca49f226a665bb?amp

There is a pattern of violence that that’s part of the reason why there is an Apprehended Violence Order to protect a female foster child against the two former foster parents of William Tyrrell, ****.

It goes for 5 years. AVO’s are put in place to protect people from violence.

I’ve heard the tapes played in court: Horrific. It’s the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Wallace52]

I just realised the significance of Peter the truck driver.

 

[Kurve]

I just realised the significance of Peter the truck driver.

What do you think it is?

 

[Underarrest_]

Does anyone think the cars seen by Peter the truck driver are significant. Black Camry, work Ute, dark coloured (maybe burgundy) car (with ladder on top)?
Or is it just about whether he’d seen FM’s car or not in his travels?

 

[Wallace52]

What do you think it is?

It’s the timeline, Kurve .

What time was he on or near Batar Creek Road?

IMO Peter is adding to the police case because he did not see the FM or her Mazda car, which means she took the drive later…. Closer to the time of 10:30-10:40am….

 

[gymjam]

There is a pattern of violence that that’s part of the reason why there is an Apprehended Violence Order to protect a female foster child against the two former foster parents of William Tyrrell, ****.

It goes for 5 years. AVO’s are put in place to protect people from violence.

I’ve heard the tapes played in court: Horrific. It’s the stuff of nightmares.

A couple of questions if I may:

Was it announced what the length of the AVO was - 5 years? That was an order put on by Magistrate Dene is that correct - in 2019? Can you recall the initial date it commenced on and what date it expires?

I cried just reading media reports, let alone sitting in Court hearing the whole recordings. Harrowing and how must it have been for the child to experience?

 

[Wallace52]

A couple of questions if I may:

Was it announced what the length of the AVO was - 5 years? That was an order put on by Magistrate Dene is that correct - in 2019? Can you recall the initial date it commenced on and what date it expires?

I cried just reading media reports, let alone sitting in Court hearing the whole recordings. Harrowing and how must it have been for the child to experience?

The AVO was recently renewed for another 5 years.

 

[shorsky]

As 31550 has said, the answer is very likely in the file. Remembering that the "file" includes footage from 169 (?) CCTV cameras.

There will be something there that someone saw that is relevant - it is a matter of working out who and what. The Claremont case had the blokes at the bus stop see the car with very specific wheel rims. It was very relevant but wasn't worked out until after he was identified in other ways. Perry K was in the file the whole time for Easey St.

The trouble is, if they can't pin it on the FM, resources will be dramatically reduced and it becomes much harder.

Also Brett Cowan ‘was in the file’ from early on re Daniel Morecombe.