Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Wallace52]

Thank you for your politeness this time. It is appreciated.

I’m so sorry if I was rude.

 

[Wallace52]

My understanding, from real estate photos, is that the garage had been fully concreted over by one of the next owners and there was no mound of dirt there any more. I don't know if the mound had been spread across the floor, and then it was concreted. It was searched with ground penetrating radar in the 2021 search.

Thank you for your politeness this time. It is appreciated.


Detectives are using ground-penetrating radar to examine a slab of concrete at William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's home in the search for the missing boy's remains.

Ground-penetrating radar used on concrete slab in search for William Tyrrell

www.9news.com.au

I know some rural and semi-rural houses, cottages and properties are a bit weird, and that’s just a general sweeping statement but if you’ve ever lived in the country there’s a lot of weird stuff you’ll see on or in people’s properties.

Having said that: I do wonder what was the original purpose of the mound of dirt being underneath that house?

Like who would have a big mound of dirt there at the bottom of their house, and is it possible William was hidden in that dirt for a day or so before he was then moved?

I wonder if FM’s car trip was to dispose of the shoes and then the body was taken elsewhere the next day…..

There must be a reason that police were looking at the garage floor.

 

[Wallace52]

Oh goodness. Was the renewal application heard by Magistrate Dene do you know and the application requested the 5 year extension?

Thankyou.

The application was made by police, and I think it was heard by Magistrate S McIntyre but I may be wrong about the magistrate…..the AVO application was heard in a closed court as far as I know, as the “protected person” is a child.

<The AVO is part of the sticky on this thread.>

I do not know how many years the police requested the AVO to go for, but I do know that the 5 year AVO was granted.

So the child in need of protection was 11 in 2021.

Then 12 in 2022.

Then 13 in 2023.

Then 14 in 2024.

They will be maybe 19 years of age when this 5 year AVO expires and then who knows, maybe police will request another one be in place at that time.

IMO

Have a look at this info about AVO’s in NSW:

AVOs are orders that a court makes to protect people. AVOs protect people by ordering a person known as the 'defendant' not to assault, molest, harass, intimidate or stalk the protected person for a specific period of time.

AVOs can also have additional orders. For example, orders can be made which prohibit the defendant from contacting the protected person, going within a certain distance of the protected person's home or work, and destroying or damaging the protected person's property. Read more about AVOs on the LawAccess NSW AVO pages

- external site

launch.

AVOs do not give defendants a criminal record.

The defendant is not allowed to keep any firearms, or to hold a firearms licence for 10 years after the AVO ends, unless the AVO is cancelled by the court. If you are a defendant and have a firearms licence, or any firearms, you must immediately surrender them to the police.





https://localcourt.nsw.gov.au/types-of-cases/apprehended-violence-orders--avos-.html#:~:text=AVOs are orders that a,can also have additional orders.

 

[pinkjellybean]

Yes so that’s what Dan Box also referenced in his Witness podcast: he said that the FM said William put his shoes on before vanishing.

To add: I purchased similar shoes to the ones that William had on that day for my 3 year old grand child for Christmas (fantastic shoes for swimming lessons and beach play) and gave them to my 3 year old grand child. 3 months later I did this experiment with him and he did not remember to put his own shoes on before playing, even when prompted twice. I had to remember for him and put them on for him, because he was just content to run off with no shoes on.

IMHO / There’s no way that William put his own shoes on before going missing. Zero possibility that this happened. His gross and fine motor skills and speech and language skills would have absolutely prevented him from being able to follow this instruction and undertaken this task independently.

Agree. With the "roaring game" starting on the verandah, it seems highly unlikely William would stop to put shoes on before jumping down onto the grass to continue the game. Even if he was physically able to put them on, I just don't think the thought would even have entered his head.

 

[CodyRose]

Yes, that’s absolutely right.

And we know she did go for a drive before the police arrived because she has said in her police interview that she went for a drive and also the arriving officer felt the bonnet was warm when he put his hand on it.

So there was a drive, but we don’t know:

*Where or
*When

Maybe she drove further out and disposed of William’s body in a clearing.

Or maybe she is innocent.

If there is an
Open fnding by the coroner are all POI’s still suspects until the day they die?

 

[Wallace52]

If there is an
Open fnding by the coroner are all POI’s still suspects until the day they die?

No idea!

I don’t even know how many persons of interest the police currently have in this case.

Wasn’t there an NSWPOL analyst called to give evidence at the inquest recently, and that person discussed the POI list and some processes around that?

 

[Lady O]

I know some rural and semi-rural houses, cottages and properties are a bit weird, and that’s just a general sweeping statement but if you’ve ever lived in the country there’s a lot of weird stuff you’ll see on or in people’s properties.

Having said that: I do wonder what was the original purpose of the mound of dirt being underneath that house?

Like who would have a big mound of dirt there at the bottom of their house, and is it possible William was hidden in that dirt for a day or so before he was then moved?

I wonder if FM’s car trip was to dispose of the shoes and then the body was taken elsewhere the next day…..

There must be a reason that police were looking at the garage floor.

The dirt would have been from digging the foundations into the slope.

 

[Wallace52]

The dirt would have been from digging the foundations into the slope.

Oh, very well.

But the development application for 48 Benaroon drive was lodged circa 2005 and the dirt was still there in 2014, so like, get organised guys and get rid of your dirt!!

It looked so dodgy.

 

[Lady O]

Oh, very well.

But the development application for 48 Benaroon drive was lodged circa 2005 and the dirt was still there in 2014, so like, get organised guys and get rid of your dirt!!

It looked so dodgy.

No reason to take it out unless you want to use the space under.

 

[Underarrest_]

The application was made by police, and I think it was heard by Magistrate S McIntyre but I may be wrong about the magistrate…..the AVO application was heard in a closed court as far as I know, as the “protected person” is a child.

<The AVO is part of the sticky on this thread.>

I do not know how many years the police requested the AVO to go for, but I do know that the 5 year AVO was granted.

So the child in need of protection was 11 in 2021.

Then 12 in 2022.

Then 13 in 2023.

Then 14 in 2024.

They will be maybe 19 years of age when this 5 year AVO expires and then who knows, maybe police will request another one be in place at that time.

IMO

Have a look at this info about AVO’s in NSW:

AVOs are orders that a court makes to protect people. AVOs protect people by ordering a person known as the 'defendant' not to assault, molest, harass, intimidate or stalk the protected person for a specific period of time.

AVOs can also have additional orders. For example, orders can be made which prohibit the defendant from contacting the protected person, going within a certain distance of the protected person's home or work, and destroying or damaging the protected person's property. Read more about AVOs on the LawAccess NSW AVO pages

- external site

launch.

AVOs do not give defendants a criminal record.

The defendant is not allowed to keep any firearms, or to hold a firearms licence for 10 years after the AVO ends, unless the AVO is cancelled by the court. If you are a defendant and have a firearms licence, or any firearms, you must immediately surrender them to the police.





https://localcourt.nsw.gov.au/types-of-cases/apprehended-violence-orders--avos-.html#:~:text=AVOs are orders that a,can also have additional orders.

Just to add all AVOs are heard in a closed court.

 

[gymjam]

The application was made by police, and I think it was heard by Magistrate S McIntyre but I may be wrong about the magistrate…..the AVO application was heard in a closed court as far as I know, as the “protected person” is a child.

<The AVO is part of the sticky on this thread.>

I do not know how many years the police requested the AVO to go for, but I do know that the 5 year AVO was granted.

So the child in need of protection was 11 in 2021.

Then 12 in 2022.

Then 13 in 2023.

Then 14 in 2024.

They will be maybe 19 years of age when this 5 year AVO expires and then who knows, maybe police will request another one be in place at that time.

IMO

Have a look at this info about AVO’s in NSW:

AVOs are orders that a court makes to protect people. AVOs protect people by ordering a person known as the 'defendant' not to assault, molest, harass, intimidate or stalk the protected person for a specific period of time.

AVOs can also have additional orders. For example, orders can be made which prohibit the defendant from contacting the protected person, going within a certain distance of the protected person's home or work, and destroying or damaging the protected person's property. Read more about AVOs on the LawAccess NSW AVO pages

- external site

launch.

AVOs do not give defendants a criminal record.

The defendant is not allowed to keep any firearms, or to hold a firearms licence for 10 years after the AVO ends, unless the AVO is cancelled by the court. If you are a defendant and have a firearms licence, or any firearms, you must immediately surrender them to the police.





https://localcourt.nsw.gov.au/types-of-cases/apprehended-violence-orders--avos-.html#:~:text=AVOs are orders that a,can also have additional orders.

Aaah so that is the AVO that protects the other child? I am personally very grateful this child has the protection angels at NSWPol looking after her!

Sorry I got it mixed up with Dene's NPO suppressions.

Really appreciate your reply detail. Thankyou.

 

[spike101]

Chris Dawson sits in jail for murdering his wife. No body. No witness. Just a series of assumed lies not proven as lies

This case has a series of lies all to promote an abduction and seemingly to hide the truth around what happened. The behaviour leakages too and talk of head injuries is problematic. No evidence of:

• mysterious cars
• U turn man
• acceptable reason for car drive

Is it Henley Thomas who convinced the police to dig up the previous home to find nothing at great public expense and now he is on another crusade. Not that he is wrong but ..

 

[gymjam]

Yes, that’s absolutely right.

And we know she did go for a drive before the police arrived because she has said in her police interview that she went for a drive and also the arriving officer felt the bonnet was warm when he put his hand on it.

So there was a drive, but we don’t know:

*Where or
*When

Maybe she drove further out and disposed of William’s body in a clearing.

Or maybe she is innocent.

It seems NSWPol Wendy Hudson spent time with FM when she arrived on scene.

Wendy noted that FM and the other child went off visiting properties in Benaroon together and took action to get them back to 48. I haven't noted Wendy' arrival time or this FM walk time and her return time to 48.

I wonder if after meeting Mrs Heslop at around 11.30 whether there was an opportunity with the search turmoil in the street going on that FM decided to take a break and go for a drive?

She had also stated during the 1st 2015 Harris interview that she had picked her sister up at the airport on the night of the 12th which I take to be at Port Macquarie. Then later it changed to the trip was on Sunday 14th the same day as her 1st official interview under the witness process with Det Partridge. Interesting to mexwas FF interview on 14th was done at 48 under the ERISP system with Jurat clause.

I was amazed to learn she drove to Pt M and return in their own Discovery 4wd vehicle with no NSWPol person to escort.

Would this change of date story actually indicate she did drive somewhere during the 12th evening?

There is something that niggles me about the way she gives out detail. It's like she is narrating a fairy tale type story and these types of stories always have a 2nd meaning.

Edit. Sorry my bad. Wendy noted FF should read FM ... now corrected in para.

 

[gymjam]

Oh, very well.

But the development application for 48 Benaroon drive was lodged circa 2005 and the dirt was still there in 2014, so like, get organised guys and get rid of your dirt!!

It looked so dodgy.

Talking about property development applications I was really mindblown that FF and FM put a final application to fully renovate well it was a rebuild of their Sydney home just 3 months after William's disappearance. I had great difficulty trying to understand how anyone could focus on such a massive project under the circumstances they were in. There was quite a social media storm when media found out too. I can recall quotes published that FM said their new home would be something special to bring William home to, or similar wording.

 

[31550]

Yes, that’s absolutely right.

And we know she did go for a drive before the police arrived because she has said in her police interview that she went for a drive and also the arriving officer felt the bonnet was warm when he put his hand on it.

So there was a drive, but we don’t know:

*Where or
*When

Maybe she drove further out and disposed of William’s body in a clearing.

Or maybe she is innocent.

One important question to answer is,
"Is there any evidence that anyone was actually looking for William before the drive took place?"
How do you know a child is missing?
You have to look for them at least a little bit and not find them before you decide they are missing.
I see absolutely nothing proven which suggests William was 'missing' before the drive. There is no evidence of anyone looking for him - calling his name, asking neighbours, phoning people who might help. Neither FGM nor FD were asked to help find William. FM just said she couldn't find him. Neighbours weren't contacted until after FF came home. FF wasn't contacted.
All the 'looking' seems to have been done after the drive.
This suggests to me that maybe it was the drive which caused William to be missing.
You don't drive 2 or 3km away to search for a 3YO who has just gone missing without checking the immediate area first. IMO.

 

[gymjam]

Nah, I don't believe GO would have trusted FA to organise materials for a job. Anyway FA didn't have a vehicle (unless he drove GO's) or a license. GO was using his vehicle that morning to go to Kendall and pay for his advert in the Chronicle.

I think foster grandmother mentioned in her walkthru on the 18th to Det Partridge that the repair project materials were already at 48.

I have seen a photo that shows a ladder positioned up against the wall of the corner at the clothesline end of the high verandah. Photo was recently attributed to Michelle White who arrived on 13th. I wonder how long the ladder had been there for?

There was also a photo taken at ground level at the high point of the high verandah and the garden bed appeared to have a fresh layer of mulch and the garden was lined with small rocks neatly placed and not that many very low growing plants positioned in the garden bed with a few higher growing tree ferns- photo also attributed to Ms White. There was a pile of fresh mulch adjacent to the NSWPol command vehicle in lower driveway too. Who did this recent landscaping work?

This high verandah garden can also be viewed in Foster Gran walkthru video.

 

[gymjam]

Are you suggesting where FA said there was a smell?

That smell was near Herron Creek wasn't it?

 

[gymjam]

One important question to answer is,
"Is there any evidence that anyone was actually looking for William before the drive took place?"
How do you know a child is missing?
You have to look for them at least a little bit and not find them before you decide they are missing.
I see absolutely nothing proven which suggests William was 'missing' before the drive. There is no evidence of anyone looking for him - calling his name, asking neighbours, phoning people who might help. Neither FGM nor FD were asked to help find William. FM just said she couldn't find him. Neighbours weren't contacted until after FF came home. FF wasn't contacted.
All the 'looking' seems to have been done after the drive.
This suggests to me that maybe it was the drive which caused William to be missing.
You don't drive 2 or 3km away to search for a 3YO who has just gone missing without checking the immediate area first. IMO.

Very good and valid point!

In answer to the 000 operator FM says ... we've been looking for him for maybe 5 - or similar phrase but she did use the word we've. This may indicate and it does to me that there was no admission from FM that she had searched by herself. Did she even mention who 'we've' included?

 

[gymjam]

My understanding, from real estate photos, is that the garage had been fully concreted over by one of the next owners and there was no mound of dirt there any more. I don't know if the mound had been spread across the floor, and then it was concreted. It was searched with ground penetrating radar in the 2021 search.

Thank you for your politeness this time. It is appreciated.


Detectives are using ground-penetrating radar to examine a slab of concrete at William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's home in the search for the missing boy's remains.

Ground-penetrating radar used on concrete slab in search for William Tyrrell

www.9news.com.au

The huge dirt mound was still there at the time of the Nov big search, as there was video of search dog going over the mound. Not sure though if the dog was a scenter or cadaver dog. These dogs are so special!

 

[Underarrest_]

I’m asking myself why FD has said William went looking for Daddy.
Was the car that did the uturn presumed to be FF meaning William presumably went down to meet him meaning he was missing longer than stated and why FM asked FF if William was with him.

 

[passball]

I have seen a photo that shows a ladder positioned up against the wall of the corner at the clothesline end of the high verandah. Photo was recently attributed to Michelle White who arrived on 13th. I wonder how long the ladder had been there for?

Probably placed there after using it for the manhole.
Wonder if the ladder was open at any stage on the veranda.

 

[31550]

I’m asking myself why FD has said William went looking for Daddy.
Was the car that did the uturn presumed to be FF meaning William presumably went down to meet him meaning he was missing longer than stated and why FM asked FF if William was with him.

I think FD said this simply because that's what she was told. Where's William? Oh he's gone to look for Daddy's car!

What happened to our old dog rover? Oh he's gone away to live on the farm!

 

[Underarrest_]

I think FD said this simply because that's what she was told. Where's William? Oh he's gone to look for Daddy's car!

What happened to our old dog rover? Oh he's gone away to live on the farm!

It’s possible FD was told this.
I think though that if this was the case, FD might say Mummy told me William went looking for Daddy.
I feel that the specialist team who interviewed FD would have been skilled in interviewing FD.

 

[gymjam]

I’m asking myself why FD has said William went looking for Daddy.
Was the car that did the uturn presumed to be FF meaning William presumably went down to meet him meaning he was missing longer than stated and why FM asked FF if William was with him.

My answer to your looking for daddy question is ... because FM had told her the correct story to tell to police! Being questioned by police would have been daunting to a 4yo so a bit of preprompting so what mother told me to say about what hapoened and everything will be ok to calm her down.

IMO one thing that should have happened when 1st responders arrived on scene was to separate everybody until they had been individually spoken too.

 

[pinkjellybean]

It seems NSWPol Wendy Hudson spent time with FM when she arrived on scene.

Wendy noted that FF and the other child went off visiting properties in Benaroon together and took action to get them back to 48. I haven't noted Wendy' arrival time or this FM walk time and her return time to 48.

I wonder if after meeting Mrs Heslop at around 11.30 whether there was an opportunity with the search turmoil in the street going on that FM decided to take a break and go for a drive?

She had also stated during the 1st 2015 Harris interview that she had picked her sister up at the airport on the night of the 12th which I take to be at Port Macquarie. Then later it changed to the trip was on Sunday 14th the same day as her 1st official interview under the witness process with Det Partridge. Interesting to mexwas FF interview on 14th was done at 48 under the ERISP system with Jurat clause.

I was amazed to learn she drove to Pt M and return in their own Discovery 4wd vehicle with no NSWPol person to escort.

Would this change of date story actually indicate she did drive somewhere during the 12th evening?

There is something that niggles me about the way she gives out detail. It's like she is narrating a fairy tale type story and these types of stories always have a 2nd meaning.

I remember also being amazed to hear that FM was permitted to drive herself to Port Macquarie to collect her sister. Incredible if that was the case.