Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Kurve]

The police are / were guessing. They have zero idea or evidence of what happened and are more or less reduced to just coming up with baselsss theories.

There is zero evidence to support their theory, that much we know.

They’re throwing shit at a wall then hoping they can press it hard enough that it will stick. That’s what they did with Spedding and it’s what they’re doing with the FM.

After what happened to Spedding under Jubelin and the massive payout he was always going to get, I'd have thought they'd avoid these kinds of tactics.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

After what happened to Spedding under Jubelin and the massive payout he was always going to get, I'd have thought they'd avoid these kinds of tactics.

Pretty amazing what’s been outlined in the latest podcast - the constant leaking to the media as a strategy, the announcements that they have evidence that they absolutely do not have. They have nothing other than a hunch. They’ve followed it up, looking for evidence, and got nothing.

Some of the worst police behaviour I’ve seen and read about comes down to this sort of stuff and is a reason many are so cynical about the police. They become driven to just get a RESULT. That’s all they want. They don’t care if it’s right or wrong or who gets hurt. They just want it filed under ‘solved’.

Jubelin clearly believes that absolutely anything at all, legal or illegal, moral or immoral, is justified when he’s trying to solve a case. That’s okay if the target is guilty, but it can’t be an operational approach because of what happens when it’s wrong. It just leaves more and more victims and makes it all worse.

I like the idea of a public inquiry into the whole affair including both the disappearance and the investigation. It could shine some light on the case itself as well as the way police have conducted themselves. Could it lead to change? Hopefully, I wouldn’t hold my breath, NSW Police have a long history of absolute corruption and while much of that is in the past, you would think there’s still major issues around the culture.

 

[LRitz]

Re: "FF has evidence of were he was, but what about the Land Rover."

From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p. 176:

"[FF's] car's location was tracked through point-to-point cameras, through the onboard satnav system and triangulation of his phone signals. He can be seen on CCTV at the Lakewood precinct, precisely where he said he was - when he said he was."

The book doesn't explain which point-to-point cameras were checked. But I think all point-to-point cameras would be along the highway (which FF wouldn't have needed to use for a quick drive to or from Lakewood), so presumably Chumley is talking about their trip to Kendall from Sydney.

I think triangulation of FF's phone signals would be tied to his phone not the Discovery, unless using Siri from a vehicle (as FF did to send the text) would show the location of the vehicle? I don't know how it works.

Also, if he used the internet for the meeting and could be seen on-screen with the interior of the Discovery in view (plus maybe the surroundings outside), that would have helped locate the vehicle at Lakewood (though I guess not anywhere else).

Thanks stormbird for great information.
But we do not know all the details of these police investigations (which is fair enough).

From what we do know FF's movements all fit in with the travel time of leaving Benaroon around 9:00, drive to Lakewood, work calls, chemist and then Kendall store, and arriving back at Benaroon around 10:35. This is supported by phone, witnesses, and receipts.

The car is not so clear. We do not know the result of the satnav from the car. And we do not know if there was any other CCTV of the car that morning. There was no mention of the car seen returning past the tennis club.

"He can be seen on CCTV at the Lakewood precinct" - Does this mean that FF was seen outside the shops or does it mean the car was seen, or was he seen sitting in the car? Did he park right next to a CCTV camera. Sometimes things get assumed. Maybe not seeing the car is not thought a problem because FF was definitely there. And yes, were there any details from the person who had the conference call. When were they interviewed and what questions were they asked?

 

[shorsky]

Thanks I think I found it. It's a bit vague - doesn't give the time of day. Seems to be after police were called. FM may have been out doing more 'looking' - it seems they didn't lock down the house as a crime scene. It doesn't say if the car was there or not.

Astonishing claim about William Tyrrell's foster grandmother

The man once considered the prime suspect in William Tyrrell's disappearance has described how the boy's foster grandmother harassed him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[js47]

Thanks stormbird for great information.
But we do not know all the details of these police investigations (which is fair enough).

From what we do know FF's movements all fit in with the travel time of leaving Benaroon around 9:00, drive to Lakewood, work calls, chemist and then Kendall store, and arriving back at Benaroon around 10:35. This is supported by phone, witnesses, and receipts.

The car is not so clear. We do not know the result of the satnav from the car. And we do not know if there was any other CCTV of the car that morning. There was no mention of the car seen returning past the tennis club.

"He can be seen on CCTV at the Lakewood precinct" - Does this mean that FF was seen outside the shops or does it mean the car was seen, or was he seen sitting in the car? Did he park right next to a CCTV camera. Sometimes things get assumed. Maybe not seeing the car is not thought a problem because FF was definitely there. And yes, were there any details from the person who had the conference call. When were they interviewed and what questions were they asked?

When I read the interview with FF about the morning of the 12th and his movements at Lakewood it gave me the impression he was drinking a glass of wine and looking out to sea. He seemed distracted and it was an effort or was it just me?

 

[Underarrest_]

When I read the interview with FF about the morning of the 12th and his movements at Lakewood it gave me the impression he was drinking a glass of wine and looking out to sea. He seemed distracted and it was an effort or was it just me?

It seems very rushed. FF did say he’d be back by 10.30 and arrived back at 10.33.
Maybe FF is very time orientated even on his days officially off work even though he’d given them an extra night/morning at FGMs.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The police are / were guessing. They have zero idea or evidence of what happened and are more or less reduced to just coming up with baselsss theories.

There is zero evidence to support their theory, that much we know.

They’re throwing shit at a wall then hoping they can press it hard enough that it will stick. That’s what they did with Spedding and it’s what they’re doing with the FM.

I'm unconvinced with police competence. Not too impressed that they engage in persecution either. The absolute starting point here is 97% likelihood (per profile) the perp is known by child. That's before you get to 500% greater chance of death in care by non biological carers, lies provable as lies (intentional or not), extensive investigation to discount alternatives, clear child abuse concerns and illogical and erroneous timelines and explanations, clear incriminating leakages, falling off chairs, black eyes etc etc

I agree SFR should be acting on investigative pathways NOT probability based persecution. They need to work with higher moral compass because it is their official capacity to do that. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Quite the contrary the profile prospects remain valid. It was a backwater street with zero traffic and negligible to non existent abduction risk.

I recently 'lost' my phone..it had to be in the house because it was inside a bag I took inside the house when it was 'lost'. My partner suggested id alienated the fairies and they took it to punish me. Huh??? 3 weeks later after searching the house repeatedly I ended up finding it. The location could be explained and was by analysis of possibilities. I don't believe I alienated the fairies nor that they were involved. I don't believe the fairies took William either.

 

[31550]

It seems very rushed. FF did say he’d be back by 10.30 and arrived back at 10.33.
Maybe FF is very time orientated even on his days officially off work even though he’d given them an extra night/morning at FGMs.

This is the transcript of his interview with police? Yes it is rambling and he sounds like he has ADD, not William. This interview was conducted late afternoon on Sunday the 14th September (two days after William disappeared).

"He can be seen on CCTV at the Lakewood precinct" - Does this mean that FF was seen outside the shops or does it mean the car was seen, or was he seen sitting in the car? Did he park right next to a CCTV camera. Sometimes things get assumed.

This from Chumley's book? So not an 'official' source, but fairly reliable. Not sure if there was CCTV at Lakewood or not, but all the other evidence suggests he did indeed drive his own vehicle to Lakewood and back according to the times given in his interview. No reason to believe he did not go there or took any other car. So it's a moot point IMO.

 

[Underarrest_]

This is the transcript of his interview with police? Yes it is rambling and he sounds like he has ADD, not William. This interview was conducted late afternoon on Sunday the 14th September (two days after William disappeared).

This from Chumley's book? So not an 'official' source, but fairly reliable. Not sure if there was CCTV at Lakewood or not, but all the other evidence suggests he did indeed drive his own vehicle to Lakewood and back according to the times given in his interview. No reason to believe he did not go there or took any other car. So it's a moot point IMO.

There’s no doubt for me that FF was in Lakewood doing what he said and has an alibi.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I repeat myself. The FGM walk through is major red flag.

She admits collaboration with FF on what she should tell them. She intimates she told him what time the chemist opened then pivots and says he was 'really keen' to get to chemist early and fill scrip when she knew the chemist opened at 9. Not 8

But for the 9.37 timestamp and proof of life of what neighbours heard you would have to suggest there is a major problem with 8 to 9 and whereabouts of FF and his car.

I suspect the Foster's wanted to keep FGM safe so told her to say she wasn't even up when he left. The problem is that the kids went into her room to wake her up and I don't believe that was after 8.40. So it's a red flag she supposedly didn't see FF before he left.

If ultimately a crime can be established as happening any adult contributing to the cover story is an accessory. Of course if you say you weren't awake or up and never saw anything then there is greater veneer of protection to being that accessory. I suspect that is what is happening. That's why she was so muddled on how many sat up to breakfast because she was making stuff up as she went.

Can the neighbours be mistaken with what they heard?. Possible they heard one playing with FM not two.

Do either chumley or overington talk about FGM getting up? it's one thing to mistake 8 for 9 but another entirely to not see someone who was there

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm unconvinced with police competence. Not too impressed that they engage in persecution either. The absolute starting point here is 97% likelihood (per profile) the perp is known by child. That's before you get to 500% greater chance of death in care by non biological carers, lies provable as lies (intentional or not), extensive investigation to discount alternatives, clear child abuse concerns and illogical and erroneous timelines and explanations, clear incriminating leakages, falling off chairs, black eyes etc etc

I agree SFR should be acting on investigative pathways NOT probability based persecution. They need to work with higher moral compass because it is their official capacity to do that. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Quite the contrary the profile prospects remain valid. It was a backwater street with zero traffic and negligible to non existent abduction risk.

I recently 'lost' my phone..it had to be in the house because it was inside a bag I took inside the house when it was 'lost'. My partner suggested id alienated the fairies and they took it to punish me. Huh??? 3 weeks later after searching the house repeatedly I ended up finding it. The location could be explained and was by analysis of possibilities. I don't believe I alienated the fairies nor that they were involved. I don't believe the fairies took William either.

Years of bullshit has come about, and ruined many lives, in large part due to the police destroying the crime scene at the initial stage and therefore having zero evidence to follow.

But they can’t say that.

Perhaps they followed protocols for a missing child rather than an abduction/homicide, something they could explain.

But they can’t and won’t for political reasons. They can’t handle the blowback.

So instead we have a decade of malicious prosecution and harassment based on theories that are not a result of evidence. They’re like the clowns on the internet coming up with scenarios then trying to prove they could be right - which they’re not, there’s no evidence for them anywhere.

The police that have committed these injustices, and those that allowed it, should be out of the police never to return.

But this is how they operate. It’s their culture.

 

[LRitz]

When I read the interview with FF about the morning of the 12th and his movements at Lakewood it gave me the impression he was drinking a glass of wine and looking out to sea. He seemed distracted and it was an effort or was it just me?

And is it in this transcript of the interview, does FF get the name Lakewood all mixed up? He says something like he was going to Lake Cathie on the way to Laurieton. But from Kendall Latke Cathie is not on the way. So why did he make that error? He was familiar with the area.

 

[LRitz]

This is the transcript of his interview with police? Yes it is rambling and he sounds like he has ADD, not William. This interview was conducted late afternoon on Sunday the 14th September (two days after William disappeared).

This from Chumley's book? So not an 'official' source, but fairly reliable. Not sure if there was CCTV at Lakewood or not, but all the other evidence suggests he did indeed drive his own vehicle to Lakewood and back according to the times given in his interview. No reason to believe he did not go there or took any other car. So it's a moot point IMO.

Agree he was there. But why are you sure he was in the Land Rover? According to the timing? I would be convinced if the car was seen at around 9:30 or later at Lakewood. For example the Kendall store people chatted to FF, discussed the paper for FGM, and selling Mars Bars. But would they have seen FF leave the store and drive off in the Land Rover.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Page 17

"She went on with William exploring the garden untill she suddenly fell, hurting her hand"

"It was really slippery with all the branches that had fallen down"

So she slipped because the ground was slippery and wet..she must then have dirtied and wet her clothes. Impossible to slip over from a standing position and not. Let's see if there is comment on that shall we .......
Bet not

Funny but I've never experienced ground being made slippery by fallen branches.....but I guess she had to explain why she fell and how that caused an injury..wet ground and a branch on that ground. Tick

 

[LRitz]

I repeat myself. The FGM walk through is major red flag.

She admits collaboration with FF on what she should tell them. She intimates she told him what time the chemist opened then pivots and says he was 'really keen' to get to chemist early and fill scrip when she knew the chemist opened at 9. Not 8

But for the 9.37 timestamp and proof of life of what neighbours heard you would have to suggest there is a major problem with 8 to 9 and whereabouts of FF and his car.

I suspect the Foster's wanted to keep FGM safe so told her to say she wasn't even up when he left. The problem is that the kids went into her room to wake her up and I don't believe that was after 8.40. So it's a red flag she supposedly didn't see FF before he left.

If ultimately a crime can be established as happening any adult contributing to the cover story is an accessory. Of course if you say you weren't awake or up and never saw anything then there is greater veneer of protection to being that accessory. I suspect that is what is happening. That's why she was so muddled on how many sat up to breakfast because she was making stuff up as she went.

Can the neighbours be mistaken with what they heard?. Possible they heard one playing with FM not two.

Do either chumley or overington talk about FGM getting up? it's one thing to mistake 8 for 9 but another entirely to not see someone who was there

re: I suspect the Foster's wanted to keep FGM safe so told her to say she wasn't even up when he left.

Interesting in FGM longer walkthrough she also says she did not see him return in the car.
FGM is asked what happened after William disappeared and she looked for FM at the road and saw Neighbour Anne Maree (Which of course is at odds with Anne Maree's version) Words to the effect
Q police: did you remember seeing his (FF's) car?
A FGM :" No No. I saw him(FF) before i saw the car, of course"

And of interest. Just before this FGM is asked where her car is . She starts to say something that has been beeped out. It is hard to make out but i think she mentions FM. Is she saying it is where FM parked the car in the car port?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

re: I suspect the Foster's wanted to keep FGM safe so told her to say she wasn't even up when he left.

Interesting in FGM longer walkthrough she also says she did not see him return in the car.
FGM is asked what happened after William disappeared and she looked for FM at the road and saw Neighbour Anne Maree (Which of course is at odds with Anne Maree's version) Words to the effect
Q police: did you remember seeing his (FF's) car?
A FGM :" No No. I saw him(FF) before i saw the car, of course"

And of interest. Just before this FGM is asked where her car is . She starts to say something that has been beeped out. It is hard to make out but i think she mentions FM. Is she saying it is where FM parked the car in the car port?

Yes I recall that part. I replayed it at least 10 times at that point but couldn't make out what she said.

 

[31550]

Agree he was there. But why are you sure he was in the Land Rover? According to the timing? I would be convinced if the car was seen at around 9:30 or later at Lakewood. For example the Kendall store people chatted to FF, discussed the paper for FGM, and selling Mars Bars. But would they have seen FF leave the store and drive off in the Land Rover.

His car (LandRover) was seen on the tennis club CCTV (if not on other CCTVs). How, where and when could he have switched vehicles?
He only had access to his car and FGM car. How else could he get to Lakewood and back?
FGM car was not seen on any CCTV AFAIK.
FM says SHE drove FGM car.
FF car was not at FGM when William disappeared. Nor was it seen in Benaroon Drive during the time FF was in Lakewood.
According to one of the books, some locals commented on his car when they saw him in Lakewood ("Nice car, mate.")
No reason for him to take a car other than his own.
I see no possibility for him to have made the trip in anything other than his own car, and surprised it's even been suggested.

 

[LRitz]

Yes I recall that part. I replayed it at least 10 times at that point but couldn't make out what she said.

Replayed. Fast and slow. loud and soft? x10!
Maybe need an ear syringe.

I missed this completely when first heard it.. But something was deleted. I am assuming it was the name of the FM (or FF). The name of other people such as the repair man and Anne Maree are not deleted.So what was deleted.

So why does FGM mention FM when talking about where she (FGM) usually parks her car.

 

[LRitz]

There’s no doubt for me that FF was in Lakewood doing what he said and has an alibi.

Any comment on if FF drove to Lakewood and back in the Land Rover.

 

[LRitz]

His car (LandRover) was seen on the tennis club CCTV (if not on other CCTVs). How, where and when could he have switched vehicles?
He only had access to his car and FGM car. How else could he get to Lakewood and back?
FGM car was not seen on any CCTV AFAIK.
FM says SHE drove FGM car.
FF car was not at FGM when William disappeared. Nor was it seen in Benaroon Drive during the time FF was in Lakewood.
According to one of the books, some locals commented on his car when they saw him in Lakewood ("Nice car, mate.")
No reason for him to take a car other than his own.
I see no possibility for him to have made the trip in anything other than his own car, and surprised it's even been suggested.

re: FM says SHE drove FGM car.
So there we go.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Page 18 whilst riding bikes

"I THINK it was FGM who says"

"Ready set go" to race the bikes

FD says

"Whose is that car Mummy" to U turn man.

So we have a suggestion FGM was there to see WT was alive and well riding his bike but couldn't be sure it was her that said that. Really?

Then you have FD see U turn Man..

Gee this sounds like a lot of corroboration that WT was still alive and active by parties other than FM. But FGM has no recollection of this at all in her walk through.

Do I remotely think it's possible a child riding a bike would care one bit who was driving past? Hell no

 

[Kurve]

Page 18 whilst riding bikes

"I THINK it was FGM who says"

"Ready set go" to race the bikes

FD says

"Whose is that car Mummy" to U turn man.

So we have a suggestion FGM was there to see WT was alive and well riding his bike but couldn't be sure it was her that said that. Really?

Then you have FD see U turn Man..

Gee this sounds like a lot of corroboration that WT was still alive and active by parties other than FM. But FGM has no recollection of this at all in her walk through.

Do I remotely think it's possible a child riding a bike would care one bit who was driving past? Hell no

The photos of William on the back porch have been accepted by the court as proof of life at 9.38am or whatever time it was, on the morning he disappeared.

So what if the elderly FGM got a bit muddled, she was obviously nervous.

 

[31550]

re: I suspect the Foster's wanted to keep FGM safe so told her to say she wasn't even up when he left.

Interesting in FGM longer walkthrough she also says she did not see him return in the car.
FGM is asked what happened after William disappeared and she looked for FM at the road and saw Neighbour Anne Maree (Which of course is at odds with Anne Maree's version) Words to the effect
Q police: did you remember seeing his (FF's) car?
A FGM :" No No. I saw him(FF) before i saw the car, of course"

And of interest. Just before this FGM is asked where her car is . She starts to say something that has been beeped out. It is hard to make out but i think she mentions FM. Is she saying it is where FM parked the car in the car port?

"Now where did I see him? I think I saw him HERE. No no I'm not really sure when I saw him, but it was after all this had happened."
So your car was in there ?
In the carport.
And do you remember seeing [FF]'s car?
No he, oh oh, ... I saw him before I saw the car, his car, of course.
Do you remember what [FF] said to you? Do you remember how he was?
Oh he, ... how he knew at that stage whether he ... I don't know, .."

One way this could coincide with FM account and known facts about FF return is if FM had gone back to the house via the driveway, passing AMS and FGM. Then FGM walks back up around the high balcony towards the verandah at the same time FF drives up Benaroon, and FGM sees FF already in the back yard - FF has already returned via car and had the exchange with FM in the carport. BUT AMS said she could hear FF when FM first spoke to her. AMS never mentions talking to FGM, but if it happened then it was clearly after FM spoke with AMS, as she had already sent FM down the street to the bus stop.

This is why I suggested that maybe it was FGM who drove the car and not FM - because there is just no accounting for FGM time between when William disappeared and when FF returns home. Whereas, there is over-accounting for FM's time during this period - she couldn't possibly have done all the looking, talking to neighbours, AND taken the drive in such a short time. What was FGM doing? Just drinking tea?

Or the drive was complete before all this happened. Or the drive never happened.

 

[31550]

Page 18 whilst riding bikes

"I THINK it was FGM who says"

"Ready set go" to race the bikes

FD says

"Whose is that car Mummy" to U turn man.

So we have a suggestion FGM was there to see WT was alive and well riding his bike but couldn't be sure it was her that said that. Really?

Then you have FD see U turn Man..

Gee this sounds like a lot of corroboration that WT was still alive and active by parties other than FM. But FGM has no recollection of this at all in her walk through.

Do I remotely think it's possible a child riding a bike would care one bit who was driving past? Hell no

This whole bit about bike riding is totally uncorroborated fiction. It's all narrative. No evidence whatsoever. IMO

 

[Underarrest_]

This whole bit about bike riding is totally uncorroborated fiction. It's all narrative. No evidence whatsoever. IMO

This is why FD’s evidence is important.
Did FD tell police they were bike riding and she saw the car drive pass?
I don’t believe FD could be brainwashed to tell several lies and stick to a story in that short amount of time.