Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[js47]

This is the garage under the house. Where do you see a staircase?

View attachment 2205842

Behind the wall where the door is I might be wrong my husband is an engineer and he thinks the double line on the drawing in the lounge wall is a doorway. Has any one seen in the house? That screen door into the wall is odd?

 

[InTheBleachers]

Circumstantial evidence is evidence. It can be used in court. As I said, unlikely to be successful on its own.

The theory that somebody random saw him and snatched him has zero evidence.

There is circumstantial evidence that somebody random saw him and snatched him.

There is a mystery car that the Crabbs both heard come up the street, turn around, and go back down the street.
There is a deathbed confession by Ray Porter, that he took Frank Abbott and a little boy - "you mean William Tyrrell", "yes" - 3 hours north.
There is a speeding 4WD seen by Ronald Chapman driven by a blond woman with a little boy at the window in the back, dressed in a spiderman suit. With a speeding blue car following close behind.

Just as much has come from that circumstantial evidence as has come from the circumstantial evidence against the FM. Nothing.

 

[DropBearess]

Good reading here as always! It's good to see new directions and theories being explored, no matter where they lead. I hadn't paid much attention to the layout of the house before.

I'm still fascinated by the time line and will be in awe of whomever gets it right, but I suspect we'll never know. I think we're trying to account for so many variables, but might not have factored in the time it would have taken for FM (if her) to establish William had actually died. Surely there would have been initial panic; there would have to be! Then checking vital signs for movement and life, and all the things first responders are trained to do. All this takes time, especially under stress. No normal person would just assume death, then up and leave in minutes, put someone in the boot and go. I think another 5-7 minutes need to be added to muddy the waters even more.

For what it's worth, l believe William's death was an accidental result of an intended action. Not much different to a one-punch death. I don't believe he fell off a verandah. I believe he was hit too hard, once too often and it went wrong, hence reluctance to seek help and the subsequent cover-up.

 

[Lady O]

Thanks Kurve, but where does the screen door go to?

Can you post a picture of the screen door you are talking about?

 

[Lady O]

Behind the wall where the door is I might be wrong my husband is an engineer and he thinks the double line on the drawing in the lounge wall is a doorway. Has any one seen in the house? That screen door into the wall is odd?

I think what you are seeing is the draftsman's depiction of a brick wall. It is all around the exterior of the house, including the entry alcove.

 

[31550]

There is circumstantial evidence that somebody random saw him and snatched him.

There is a mystery car that the Crabbs both heard come up the street, turn around, and go back down the street.
There is a deathbed confession by Ray Porter, that he took Frank Abbott and a little boy - "you mean William Tyrrell", "yes" - 3 hours north.
There is a speeding 4WD seen by Ronald Chapman driven by a blond woman with a little boy at the window in the back, dressed in a spiderman suit. With a speeding blue car following close behind.

Just as much has come from that circumstantial evidence as has come from the circumstantial evidence against the FM. Nothing.

You are correct about the circumstantial evidence from Porter and Chapman.
Chapman's account seems to have been dismissed completely by police - they said there was another boy in Kendall wearing a Spiderman suit.
We don't know where police got with Porter's evidence but we do know they have apparently eliminated Abbott as a suspect.

That leaves the Crabb's evidence, but the car heard by the Crabbs is more likely to have been the FM driving FGM car than a random abductor who just happened to be in Benaroon Drive at exactly the right time. It is no more evidence of 'abduction' than it is evidence of 'foul play'.

 

[stormbird]

Behind the wall where the door is I might be wrong my husband is an engineer and he thinks the double line on the drawing in the lounge wall is a doorway. Has any one seen in the house? That screen door into the wall is odd?

js47, Lady O suggested the "double line" is the exterior wall, but if not - is it this?



This screenshot from FGM's walk-through shows a view of that circled area as seen from the "lounge" side (when FGM walks into the hallway towards bedrooms 2 & 3):



None of the photos I've seen show what the front door (at "entry") looks like, but it must have double doors, I think - it looks the same on the floor plan as the wardrobe doors in "bed 2", for example.

The carport door ("screen door into the wall"?) looks like this from the inside: from the hallway in FGM's walk-through when she looks into bedrooms 2 and 3:



For a view of the carport door from the outside, see the circled photo in post 389.

 

[Lady O]

js47, Lady O suggested the "double line" is the exterior wall, but if not - is it this?

View attachment 2206120

This screenshot from FGM's walk-through shows a view of that circled area as seen from the "lounge" side (when FGM walks into the hallway towards bedrooms 2 & 3):

View attachment 2206123

None of the photos I've seen show what the front door (at "entry") looks like, but it must have double doors, I think - it looks the same on the floor plan as the wardrobe doors in "bed 2", for example.

The carport door ("screen door into the wall"?) looks like this from the inside: from the hallway in FGM's walk-through when she looks into bedrooms 2 and 3:

View attachment 2206126

For a view of the carport door from the outside, see the circled photo in post 389.

Yes the archway had to be framed in and gyprocked. It is not a secret doorway to the garage.

 

[js47]

Can you post a picture of the screen door you are talking about?

Lady O there are two steps leading to a screen door which is between the tools hanging on the wall and the bottles of I think some people suggested bleach. Hope this helps you.

 

[Lady O]

View attachment 2206249
Lady O there are two steps leading to a screen door which is between the tools hanging on the wall and the bottles of I think some people suggested bleach. Hope this helps you.

Yes, that's the one in the carport.

 

[js47]

Thanks everyone for your help. I concede no steps.

Could the car heard by Mr and Mrs Crabb be there because the FGM needed help from a trusted person?

Could something have happened to Wm. and FGM rang some one close to her for help.

The car arrives I turns he is quickly passed to the person in the car and the drive off.

Didn’t the police ask if the FM was protecting some one?

I am not saying FGM did anything just there was a serious situation that had to be felt with.

 

[js47]

Yes, that's the one in the carport.

View attachment 2206252

Thank you I thought the bikes were under the house. Now I see.

 

[Lady O]

Thank you I thought the bikes were under the house. Now I see.

PHEW!!

 

[InTheBleachers]

You are correct about the circumstantial evidence from Porter and Chapman.
Chapman's account seems to have been dismissed completely by police - they said there was another boy in Kendall wearing a Spiderman suit.
We don't know where police got with Porter's evidence but we do know they have apparently eliminated Abbott as a suspect.

That leaves the Crabb's evidence, but the car heard by the Crabbs is more likely to have been the FM driving FGM car than a random abductor who just happened to be in Benaroon Drive at exactly the right time. It is no more evidence of 'abduction' than it is evidence of 'foul play'.

That other child was later verified as not being the child that Ronald Chapman saw.

And the only person who has eliminated Frank Abbott is Frank Abbott himself.



Sgt Beacroft said further investigations revealed that on the same morning, September 12, a mother and her two children were visiting a resident across the road, and one of the children, a boy, had a Spider-Man suit.

However. Sgt Beacroft said the child Mr Chapman saw in the back seat of the car was not the child visiting the street.

“From the information provided by that child’s mother … it was not that child Mr Chapman saw,” she said.

Man saw child in car wearing Spider-Man suit, Tyrrell inquest hears

William Tyrrell’s foster mother made different and contradictory claims about seeing cars in the street from which the boy vanished and was asked by police if she was making up the stories, an inquest has heard.

www.news.com.au

 

[31550]

Could something have happened to Wm. and FGM rang some one close to her for help

Then there would have been a record of the outgoing call made by FGM. Unless a less detectable method of contact was used - instant messaging etc.

 

[passball]

Then there would have been a record of the outgoing call made by FGM. Unless a less detectable method of contact was used - instant messaging etc.

Did the Foster Grandad have a phone?
And did the Foster Grandad have a car?
Yes I know he is dead but what happened to his car and phone if he had these?

Someone posted earlier that FGM rang Geoff Owens to tell him not to come to fix the decking because of what was happening, William being missing. There is evidence of that call.
But, she did not ring Bill Spedding to inform him of the same thing and he was due to come to the house sometime that day, maybe, days before Owens.
Why not also call Spedding?

As for someone close.
Where were the sons and daughter/s-in-law in all of this? Didn't they live close to FGM?

 

[Lady O]

Did the Foster Grandad have a phone?
And did the Foster Grandad have a car?
Yes I know he is dead but what happened to his car and phone if he had these?

Someone posted earlier that FGM rang Geoff Owens to tell him not to come to fix the decking because of what was happening, William being missing. There is evidence of that call.
But, she did not ring Bill Spedding to inform him of the same thing and he was due to come to the house sometime that day, maybe, days before Owens.
Why not also call Spedding?

As for someone close.
Where were the sons and daughter/s-in-law in all of this? Didn't they live close to FGM?

Why not do some research and answer your own questions? I don't think any of these are relevant. I do sometimes think people are asking silly questions for a lack of something else to do. Let us know if you find out the answers to these questions.

 

[passball]

I saw posted on a site where they blamed the FPS for William’s disappearance along with another name I haven't heard of. I think this guy is an architect.
After all the discussion about a staircase I found it really odd that I happened across this. Weird.

 

[passball]

Why not do some research and answer your own questions? I don't think any of these are relevant. I do sometimes think people are asking silly questions for a lack of something else to do. Let us know if you find out the answers to these questions.

I don't think these questions have ever been asked so there isn't an answer.
I just thought someone might know.
I don't think they are silly questions.
Unless we know from Police what they have we are going by media basically.
If we are wrong then we are all silly, not just me.

 

[js47]

Then there would have been a record of the outgoing call made by FGM. Unless a less detectable method of contact was used - instant messaging etc.

House phone?

 

[Underarrest_]

Did the Foster Grandad have a phone?
And did the Foster Grandad have a car?
Yes I know he is dead but what happened to his car and phone if he had these?

Someone posted earlier that FGM rang Geoff Owens to tell him not to come to fix the decking because of what was happening, William being missing. There is evidence of that call.
But, she did not ring Bill Spedding to inform him of the same thing and he was due to come to the house sometime that day, maybe, days before Owens.
Why not also call Spedding?

As for someone close.
Where were the sons and daughter/s-in-law in all of this? Didn't they live close to FGM?

Passball, two tradies were contacted that day, both expected to come by at any time (we know one has been eliminated of taking William,) the other is an associate of Frank Abbott.
Bill Spedding was phoned by FM at 9.03am and asked about the parts for the washing machine, Geoff Owen was phoned later in the day and asked not to come by as planned.
There were also neighbours in the area at the time including one across the street and one who lived in the next street (260metres away.)
I don’t think we know where FGF’s car or phone were or how far away all of FGM’s relatives lived.

 

[Cataholic]

Why not do some research and answer your own questions? I don't think any of these are relevant. I do sometimes think people are asking silly questions for a lack of something else to do. Let us know if you find out the answers to these questions.

Any action on the day is relevant.

Any question relating to any activity on the day is relevant.

A picture is made through thousands of pixels. Each one on their own doesn't portray much, but put them all together and you have high definition.

 

[Lady O]

I don't think these questions have ever been asked so there isn't an answer.
I just thought someone might know.
I don't think they are silly questions.
Unless we know from Police what they have we are going by media basically.
If we are wrong then we are all silly, not just me.

So, see if you can provide us with answers if you think it's important. There may be relevance, but just asking and expecting others to provide answers without any other input from you doesn't really indicate you have much faith that the questions are relevant. Asking questions for the sake of it IMO.

 

[31550]

House phone?

Land line. Cordless, used by FM to dial 000. These leave traceable call records.

 

[31550]

Passball, two tradies were contacted that day, both expected to come by at any time (we know one has been eliminated of taking William,) the other is an associate of Frank Abbott.
Bill Spedding was phoned by FM at 9.03am and asked about the parts for the washing machine, Geoff Owen was phoned later in the day and asked not to come by as planned.
There were also neighbours in the area at the time including one across the street and one who lived in the next street (260metres away.)
I don’t think we know where FGF’s car or phone were or how far away all of FGM’s relatives lived.

The interesting thing is WHY FGM would consider it necessary to call Owen on the Friday and tell him not to come (he was due on the Tuesday). William had been gone a few hours only. Why was FGM so sure he would not be found safe and sound later that day? How was she certain the case would still be active the next Tuesday? This is highly suspicious.