Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[passball]

Chris Watts.
I suggest watching his sentencing.
That's the sort of person.

 

[js47]

Only 148kms from Casino via kyogle to Springbrook.

Yes I thought about that too. Glad you brought it up. I live in Northern NSW nice drive.

 

[js47]

Chris Watts.
I suggest watching his sentencing.
That's the sort of person.

Point taken.

 

[Kurve]

They’ve completely stuffed the case up. Even if the person/s responsible are found, can you imagine the field day a half decent defence lawyer would have with NSWPOL?

It was a bit shocking to hear the former commissioner Mick Fuller say on the last podcast, that the statistics pointed to the carer/s being responsible for William's disappearance.

The immediate thought I had was "Far out, you'd want to have more than that on a case like this."

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Just read this quote.
"Beware the witness whose memory improves with the passage of time” - Ron Iddles

Ron iddles seems like he is an extremely wise man. His quotes seem spot on.
Wonder if he is following this case and what he thinks is the most probable scenario.

Yeah. What is clear to me after reading the excerpts regarding FDs interview is that as far as she is concerned W went off in search of FF s car. Perhaps he had been playing daddy tiger that morning or even just before he went missing and roared but the ‘mission’ when he went missing imo was to search for FFs car. Almost as though he was triggered to do that. Perhaps he was.

It was a bit shocking to hear the former commissioner Mick Fuller say on the last podcast, that the statistics pointed to the carer/s being responsible for William's disappearance.

The immediate thought I had was "Far out, you'd want to have more than that on a case like this."

You have much more than that. in fact you have more than was used against Chris Dawson in his successful conviction. The only difference weighing against proceeding here is that child may have wandered off or been abducted (though unlikely).

Cars seen that no one corroborated and never been found. A U turn man who never came forward. A car trip that did happen for illogical purpose. FGM clear mistake on when she awoke and FF left the house. There were lies (intentional or not) and misdirection. And all the lies were self serving in nature by promoting an abduction

When a child goes missing your only immediate thought is to find him and have people help you find him. It’s NEVER to intimate he’d banged his head and can’t hear or was abducted. That’s an utter joke tbh. Sure abduction looms in the back of mind but it’s a remote prospect in that location and ridiculous as first choice. Extremely Incriminating. No person in identical situation would ever say that!!!

“Have you seen my son? He was playing and now we can’t find him”. That is what you’d say.

 

[Kurve]

Yeah. What is clear to me after reading the excerpts regarding FDs interview is that as far as she is concerned W went off in search of FF s car. Perhaps he had been playing daddy tiger that morning or even just before he went missing and roared but the ‘mission’ when he went missing imo was to search for FFs car. Almost as though he was triggered to do that. Perhaps he was.


You have much more than that. in fact you have more than was used against Chris Dawson in his successful conviction. The only difference weighing against proceeding here is that child may have wandered off or been abducted (though unlikely).

Cars seen that no one corroborated and never been found. A U turn man who never came forward. A car trip that did happen for illogical purpose. FGM clear mistake on when she awoke and FF left the house. There were lies (intentional or not) and misdirection. And all the lies were self serving in nature by promoting an abduction

When a child goes missing your only immediate thought is to find him and have people help you find him. It’s NEVER to intimate he’d banged his head and can’t hear or was abducted. That’s an utter joke tbh. Sure abduction looms in the back of mind but it’s a remote prospect in that location and ridiculous as first choice. Extremely Incriminating. No person in identical situation would ever say that!!!

“Have you seen my son? He was playing and now we can’t find him”. That is what you’d say.

We'll have to wait for the Coroner's findings and/or for the ODPP's decision.

People react differently to stressful situations, it isn't reasonable to make confident judgements based on what we would have said or done.

 

[31550]

Yeah. What is clear to me after reading the excerpts regarding FDs interview is that as far as she is concerned W went off in search of FF s car. Perhaps he had been playing daddy tiger that morning or even just before he went missing and roared but the ‘mission’ when he went missing imo was to search for FFs car. Almost as though he was triggered to do that. Perhaps he was.


You have much more than that. in fact you have more than was used against Chris Dawson in his successful conviction. The only difference weighing against proceeding here is that child may have wandered off or been abducted (though unlikely).

Cars seen that no one corroborated and never been found. A U turn man who never came forward. A car trip that did happen for illogical purpose. FGM clear mistake on when she awoke and FF left the house. There were lies (intentional or not) and misdirection. And all the lies were self serving in nature by promoting an abduction

When a child goes missing your only immediate thought is to find him and have people help you find him. It’s NEVER to intimate he’d banged his head and can’t hear or was abducted. That’s an utter joke tbh. Sure abduction looms in the back of mind but it’s a remote prospect in that location and ridiculous as first choice. Extremely Incriminating. No person in identical situation would ever say that!!!

“Have you seen my son? He was playing and now we can’t find him”. That is what you’d say.

Start at the very beginning, assume nothing and believe nothing.
A boy is reported missing. When was he last seen / heard? What was he doing? Who was present at the location? What were their exact movements? Was anyone else at the house or nearby?
What has likely happened to him: (wandered off, run away, kidnapped, or something else)?
He's small, only 3YO, no cars, remote location, quiet street, not his regular home, unfamiliar surrounds.
If he has just wandered or run away he will soon be found. If he's been kidnapped then a vehicle must be involved - but what cars could have come and gone in that short time window? None, so next theory.
The immediate focus should have quickly been on the people present at the house to extract all the relevant information about their observations, comings and goings. Immediately it should have been recorded or documented. Cars should have been examined immediately. Phones examined immediately. Statements taken immediately. Garbage bins searched, bathrooms searched, clothing examined. FM had a hand injury - was it examined? Did anyone else have an injury or wound? Any evidence of an accident? Blood, damaged or misplaced furniture or household items - electrical cords, hoses, garden tools, ladders. Damage to plants or other household items?
But this isn't what happened at all. Instead we had a circus show of hundreds of volunteers scouring bushland where he couldn't possibly have gone. We had police descend on the bio family who couldn't possibly have even got to Kendall. We had a command post set up and a media feeding frenzy. But all the time nobody even bothered to get a detailed account of the timeline of events from the three adults and one child who were actually present at the house. The house was not properly searched. Nor was it quarantined. The fosters were allowed to come and go. Phones and computers and vehicles remained in their possession. etc. etc.

 

[BFew]

It was a bit shocking to hear the former commissioner Mick Fuller say on the last podcast, that the statistics pointed to the carer/s being responsible for William's disappearance.

The immediate thought I had was "Far out, you'd want to have more than that on a case like this."

I assume that those same statistics were still valid and well known within NSW Police investigations teams back in 2014, when William went missing under the oversight of the previous NSW Police Commissioner (2007-2017) to Fuller.

 

[Underarrest_]

Start at the very beginning, assume nothing and believe nothing.
A boy is reported missing. When was he last seen / heard? What was he doing? Who was present at the location? What were their exact movements? Was anyone else at the house or nearby?
What has likely happened to him: (wandered off, run away, kidnapped, or something else)?
He's small, only 3YO, no cars, remote location, quiet street, not his regular home, unfamiliar surrounds.
If he has just wandered or run away he will soon be found. If he's been kidnapped then a vehicle must be involved - but what cars could have come and gone in that short time window? None, so next theory.
The immediate focus should have quickly been on the people present at the house to extract all the relevant information about their observations, comings and goings. Immediately it should have been recorded or documented. Cars should have been examined immediately. Phones examined immediately. Statements taken immediately. Garbage bins searched, bathrooms searched, clothing examined. FM had a hand injury - was it examined? Did anyone else have an injury or wound? Any evidence of an accident? Blood, damaged or misplaced furniture or household items - electrical cords, hoses, garden tools, ladders. Damage to plants or other household items?
But this isn't what happened at all. Instead we had a circus show of hundreds of volunteers scouring bushland where he couldn't possibly have gone. We had police descend on the bio family who couldn't possibly have even got to Kendall. We had a command post set up and a media feeding frenzy. But all the time nobody even bothered to get a detailed account of the timeline of events from the three adults and one child who were actually present at the house. The house was not properly searched. Nor was it quarantined. The fosters were allowed to come and go. Phones and computers and vehicles remained in their possession. etc. etc.

There was a vehicle heard after 10 by the Crabbes.
We don’t know who’s car this was.
Could have been FMs but there’s no evidence of this and from what we know, not what police are saying as they’re alleging that FM alerted neighbours and then went for a drive.
Identifying the car heard by the Crabbes is crucial because it leaves it wide open for an abduction if it wasn’t anyone in the FF. IMO.

 

[31550]

There was a vehicle heard after 10 by the Crabbes.
We don’t know who’s car this was.
Could have been FMs but there’s no evidence of this and from what we know, not what police are saying as they’re alleging that FM alerted neighbours and then went for a drive.
Identifying the car heard by the Crabbes is crucial because it leaves it wide open for an abduction if it wasn’t anyone in the FF. IMO.

And this would have been cleared up on the day William disappeared if police had immediately questioned FM, FGM, FF, and the Crabbs about what cars were used, heard and seen and when.
Instead, ten years later, we still don't know for sure.
All it required was for police to ask FM if and when she drove anywhere on the day. And to ask the Crabbs on the day, when they heard the car turn around.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Start at the very beginning, assume nothing and believe nothing.
A boy is reported missing. When was he last seen / heard? What was he doing? Who was present at the location? What were their exact movements? Was anyone else at the house or nearby?
What has likely happened to him: (wandered off, run away, kidnapped, or something else)?
He's small, only 3YO, no cars, remote location, quiet street, not his regular home, unfamiliar surrounds.
If he has just wandered or run away he will soon be found. If he's been kidnapped then a vehicle must be involved - but what cars could have come and gone in that short time window? None, so next theory.
The immediate focus should have quickly been on the people present at the house to extract all the relevant information about their observations, comings and goings. Immediately it should have been recorded or documented. Cars should have been examined immediately. Phones examined immediately. Statements taken immediately. Garbage bins searched, bathrooms searched, clothing examined. FM had a hand injury - was it examined? Did anyone else have an injury or wound? Any evidence of an accident? Blood, damaged or misplaced furniture or household items - electrical cords, hoses, garden tools, ladders. Damage to plants or other household items?
But this isn't what happened at all. Instead we had a circus show of hundreds of volunteers scouring bushland where he couldn't possibly have gone. We had police descend on the bio family who couldn't possibly have even got to Kendall. We had a command post set up and a media feeding frenzy. But all the time nobody even bothered to get a detailed account of the timeline of events from the three adults and one child who were actually present at the house. The house was not properly searched. Nor was it quarantined. The fosters were allowed to come and go. Phones and computers and vehicles remained in their possession. etc. etc.

Agree with all this.

Chris Dawson was effectively convicted by eliminating all the alternatives and then concluding that he lied and did so to hide his crime. Way more effort and energy has been dispensed to disprove alternatives here. The starting point for criminologists is 97% are known to person before you get to the COG behaviours inculpating them which is plentiful.

He had to be taken away by car to be hidden. The FM used a car for illogical reason. It had to be almost immediately after death to avoid cadaverine. He had to be hidden once only because testing of cars. It had to be outside the initial search zone and within 12 min drive on my calculations. He can’t have been moved from that location afterwards because of car forensics. That is where he still is in a shallow grave

GJ did a massive disservice to the investigation by believing the FM from outset and chasing shadows. The hysteria focus on multiple perps since has played into the Fosters hands imo. Once you invite people like FA and TJ into the equation the lies start to fly

PS was there and made that strange admission in conversation with dead wife but his behaviour has otherwise smacked of honesty consistently. Nothing incriminating. I’d love to know how they excluded him. Or simply they gave up and moved on rather than excuse him.

The meaty reasons of how these people were excluded needs to be public as does what they have on FM beyond what we know.

 

[js47]

I don’t believe a car was the only way Wm. Could have been removed.
He was very small. As long as he was in a container of some description he could have been carried. Day care teachers can lift a three year old.

Parents lift children did the FM lift Wm. out of the tree?

The FF early morning search is not discussed very much.

 

[31550]

I don’t believe a car was the only way Wm. Could have been removed.
He was very small. As long as he was in a container of some description he could have been carried. Day care teachers can lift a three year old.

Parents lift children did the FM lift Wm. out of the tree?

The FF early morning search is not discussed very much.

Almost certainly a car was involved.
He couldn't get out of sight under his own steam, and an adult carrying him (or wheeling him) would also not get very far without being seen or heard. Not to the end of Benaroon Drive. There had to be a car which left Benaroon Drive. Which means somebody drove it in and out that morning.

As for the FF early morning search - this should never have been allowed to happen. If he insisted on leaving the property he should have been accompanied by a police officer. The house and its occupants should have been quarantined and thoroughly searched before anyone was allowed to leave.

 

[Lady O]

Agree with all this.

Chris Dawson was effectively convicted by eliminating all the alternatives and then concluding that he lied and did so to hide his crime. Way more effort and energy has been dispensed to disprove alternatives here. The starting point for criminologists is 97% are known to person before you get to the COG behaviours inculpating them which is plentiful.

He had to be taken away by car to be hidden. The FM used a car for illogical reason. It had to be almost immediately after death to avoid cadaverine. He had to be hidden once only because testing of cars. It had to be outside the initial search zone and within 12 min drive on my calculations. He can’t have been moved from that location afterwards because of car forensics. That is where he still is in a shallow grave

GJ did a massive disservice to the investigation by believing the FM from outset and chasing shadows. The hysteria focus on multiple perps since has played into the Fosters hands imo. Once you invite people like FA and TJ into the equation the lies start to fly

PS was there and made that strange admission in conversation with dead wife but his behaviour has otherwise smacked of honesty consistently. Nothing incriminating. I’d love to know how they excluded him. Or simply they gave up and moved on rather than excuse him.

The meaty reasons of how these people were excluded needs to be public as does what they have on FM beyond what we know.

I agree that the three adults and one child should have been the initial focus. The followed by the neighbours. Then any people who were usually or incidentally in the neighbourhood at the time. Only after all these people have been thoroughly investigated and dismissed should they start to looking further afield. But again, beginning at the closest and then branching out.

However, I don't agree that it was a mistake to put a lot of time and effort into searching for him as if he wandered off. That is still the most likely solution.

 

[js47]

I agree that the three adults and one child should have been the initial focus. The followed by the neighbours. Then any people who were usually or incidentally in the neighbourhood at the time. Only after all these people have been thoroughly investigated and dismissed should they start to looking further afield. But again, beginning at the closest and then branching out.

However, I don't agree that it was a mistake to put a lot of time and effort into searching for him as if he wandered off. That is still the most likely solution.

I agree about the time and effort into searching. At the time no one knew about Wm. Was fostered not that should be of concern. But information was with held from everyone. People trusted the fosters narrative. Slowly bit by bit everyone was spoon fed misinformation by the fosters, police, media, authors. I am not saying it was deliberate. Mistrust and rumours started to surface and it is easy at this stage to say the people of Kendall et al should not have swarmed all over 48 BD.

 

[passball]

Where's William Tyrrell?
Ep 3. One Last Roar.
Around 53 mins.
Apparently the FPs didn't sleep much that first night and were constantly going to the Command Post.
That might seem normal but given some are wondering if William was moved, and when, this is interesting.

The FM also said that she packed William's pillow for the trip. There was a pillow missing from one of the bedrooms.

 

[passball]

I haven't noticed this before but William is pinching something between his fingers on his right hand.
It doesn't look like a dice to me, I can't make out what it is.

 

[Earls Smother]

Where's William Tyrrell?
Ep 3. One Last Roar.
Around 53 mins.
Apparently the FPs didn't sleep much that first night and were constantly going to the Command Post.
That might seem normal but given some are wondering if William was moved, and when, this is interesting.

The FM also said that she packed William's pillow for the trip. There was a pillow missing from one of the bedrooms.

People continued to search all night with torches and the command post was obviously operational all night (based on what was said in the podcast). How would the FF have left the property undetected to move the body?

When he was up early the next morning, people must have been aware of the time and general area that he searched? He couldn't have taken a car undetected, and it would have been obvious if he had taken a shovel or any other implement.

 

[passball]

I keep thinking about the cemetery, William could have been carried there initially and in the dark of night/early morning moved again.
You could leave the house from the back through the trail unseen by the Command Post out the front.
The FF himself said in his walkthrough he had SUDDENLY realised there was a trail to the cemetery (AS IF) and searched there, looking for maybe a lost shoe. Maybe he went back later
Would FF had time to go to the cemetery and back as soon as he got home from Lakewood in time for the neighbour alerts?
Or could FM have driven to the cemetery on her drive to unload?
Thinking of possibilities.
People were out with torches that first night, an unidentified FP might blend in, just another searcher.

 

[passball]

Did the FGM leave that first night in her car or did she get picked up?

 

[js47]

I haven't noticed this before but William is pinching something between his fingers on his right hand.
It doesn't look like a dice to me, I can't make out what it is.

View attachment 2199945

Didn’t the children collect leaves? I there seems to be a leave near him.

 

[31550]

Where's William Tyrrell?
Ep 3. One Last Roar.
Around 53 mins.
Apparently the FPs didn't sleep much that first night and were constantly going to the Command Post.
That might seem normal but given some are wondering if William was moved, and when, this is interesting.

The FM also said that she packed William's pillow for the trip. There was a pillow missing from one of the bedrooms.

All narrative with no substantiating evidence.
It could all be true, or it could all be fantasy. We don't know. None of this is formally documented or supported by evidence.

 

[js47]

I keep thinking about the cemetery, William could have been carried there initially and in the dark of night/early morning moved again.
You could leave the house from the back through the trail unseen by the Command Post out the front.
The FF himself said in his walkthrough he had SUDDENLY realised there was a trail to the cemetery (AS IF) and searched there, looking for maybe a lost shoe. Maybe he went back later
Would FF had time to go to the cemetery and back as soon as he got home from Lakewood in time for the neighbour alerts?
Or could FM have driven to the cemetery on her drive to unload?
Thinking of possibilities.
People were out with torches that first night, an unidentified FP might blend in, just another searcher.

The FF suddenly realised about the trail?
I don’t know about that, I think they would have walked that before the 12th. To go and see the FGF.
FF in his walk through said he knew the trails.
Remember! They would have been going there for years. It WAS NOT THEIR FIRST VISIT.

 

[DropBearess]

FGM said the FPs were in bed when Wendy Hudson visited around 9 pm. I believe phone records show they were very active on their phones. We've been told FF rose early next morning to search on his own. We're now hearing they were back and forth to and from the Command Post that night. More mud in the waters. What is correct?

 

[passball]

All narrative with no substantiating evidence.
It could all be true, or it could all be fantasy. We don't know. None of this is formally documented or supported by evidence.

That's pretty much the whole case isn't it?
There is no evidence we know about.

FGM said the FPs were in bed when Wendy Hudson visited around 9 pm. I believe phone records show they were very active on their phones. We've been told FF rose early next morning to search on his own. We're now hearing they were back and forth to and from the Command Post that night. More mud in the waters. What is correct?

Well if the paramedics gave FF sleeping tablets for his 'episode they weren't very effective.