Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Kurve]

But that's ok I'll use allegedly and theory.

Thank you.

 

[passball]

I think it was much earlier..perhaps it was 7.39

I doubt they would look at the time again but would be good if they did.
Use another expert or a group of experts.
I'm even wondering if William was alive in the photos, my phone is giving off a blue hue in the grainy shots.
Maybe I need a new phone.
IMO and allegedly for all my posts, I know nothing.
.

 

[passball]

I don't get how it was 7.39.
Bali is 2 hours behind so wouldn't that make the corrected time 9.39? Or Bali time 7.37 to get to 9.37. So confusing.
How did the 2 mins go missing?

And the CCTV was 9 and then 14 mins out.
Who is in control of both?
Was footage cut?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't get how it was 7.39.
Bali is 2 hours behind so wouldn't that make the corrected time 9.39?
How did the 2 mins go missing?

I always get 9.37 mixed up with 7.39 or vice versa.. if it was changed the difference could be anything really

 

[passball]

I always get 9.37 mixed up with 7.39 or vice versa.. if it was changed the difference could be anything really

The CCTV is a worry though

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

Ok so you are aware of some anomalies in the various narratives, and have highlighted some things you consider suspicious. I think most of these have been covered before in this thread over the last 10 years, so I won't address each of them individually.
But these are just anomalies - they don't add up to a solution to the case, unless you can put them all together and come up with a plausible theory about what actually happened to William, and how all these anomalies can be accounted for. And also fit that theory to the known, proven FACTS, like phone calls and financial transactions.
In other words, what's your theory about what happened to William? Who removed him from the house? Why? Where is he now? Then we can address each of your anomalies seperately.

Gosh that sounds like I'm getting instructions for a Year 3 teacher. They aren't anomalies, just depends on what side of the fence you sit. Are you in the corner that says there's dog turd, put your shoes on William or hey there's no dog turd, no need for the shoes.

Am I addressing the class, just so I know, given I'm the new kid on the block of 48 Benaroon?

Unlike that other page I won't give links or anything, you put facts in capitals. I only use FACS in capitals because that's where the story truly begins and where ultimately it's going to finish.

So was Gary Jubelin acting for NSW Police? Or was he acting on the instructions of FACS? Gary is a very different animal to say the current lead investigator. I didn't use the word beast, like you might've expected. Just like Gary didn't use the word Stone when he said leave any Rock unturned at the launch of the $1m reward. It's a little odd, Gary's choice of word that day, did he not proof read what he was going to say? Like getting William's date of birth wrong in that book too.

The theory is, it's all a lie. Let's be very clear, that's an opinion, not stated as fact. Just like the secrets in JFK files, it's probably not the right place to put the cards on the table.

Though I'm very fascinated by any individual who wants to defend, almost shout from the roof top that proof of life has been confirmed as 9:37am. Here's why it's fascinating, because in a case that's spanned 10 years the times remain central to everything. Those in the abduction camp, they'll defend 9:37am until 10:33am when it's time to come home. However, if you have an open mind, that deception is at play, then you won't rule out the times of 7:37-7:39am.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

The original time stamps were not "altered". The "clock" of the camera was allegedly set to the wrong time i.e not AEST, so the time was "corrected". The tennis club CCTV was also allegedly on the wrong time ( 9 or 14 minutes slow), so that time has also been corrected.

Same if you travelled from NSW to Qld in summer time. Your watch would be out by one hour so you would "correct" it (either reset the watch or just make the mental calculation). You would see your watch says 6 pm (correct for NSW) but you would know that it is 5pm in Qld.

The forensics, presumably know their business, and say it was not altered by the FP. The police just "corrected" the time to the time in Benaroon that morning, AEST, not Bali time.

The Sunrise photo? Who knows. interesting it was used to confirm the time setting on the camera. So it did help to confirm the 9:37 time of the phots, which did help the FF's alibi.

Pardon me for asking, but you seem very direct in saying the time stamps were not altered? If I was in a court of law I'd be going to the definition, but since I'm not in court, Dr Google says:
"Altered is an adjective that describes anything that's been changed or modified"

The last time I looked at those deck photos the time was changed or modified.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

September 1st the Titanic was found.
Very interesting that you have brought up something.I don't think Jubelin was looking at that, or was he??
JfK? That's a huge conspiracy, is that what you are saying? How is that connected to William?
Be good if you could elaborate more with your post.

Well it's all about timing, Donald is back and he says he wants the public to see the final set of sealed docs. Now I wasn't thinking about the Titanic, I don't think the FM was either.

So let's ask this question:
Why wasn't the time on the camera changed in the 6 weeks following their return from Bali?
If the FM was so fixated on times, surely she notices the time is out during that 6 week period. FM notices cars in such fine detail, describes the wheels etc.

Let's go totally left field, what if that camera was used for another purpose, a weapon?

A weapon that could be used to defend someone's actions or movements on a said day? Just before some says what to do you mean weapon, I'm using it figuratively speaking. 10 years later, let's face it the story line hasn't got us very far in proving what happened, or who is responsible. So you perhaps should be digging deeper looking at the known factual moments, and asking questions about that moment. Why on earth would you see a need to take a photo of a morning TV program? Why not Days of Our Lives, Home and Away? Something is off about September 1st photo.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

The 9.10 GO missed call is important because it places them somewhere where they can't hear. Not verandah they would hear there. Not inside they'd hear there too. So either driveway and bikes or being distracted by WT and whatever happened. They didn't answer the phone at 9.10 in my opinion because that was the time an altercation occurred distracting them with something more important William and FM

But that can't possibly be can it because of the photo and 9.37. And we know that the photos is proof of life because that is the time when FF wasn't there and was only FGM and FM and kids just like the FGM had obsessively stated in her walk through. I believe my instincts which scream to me that 9.37 is a fake alibi fabricated by a FGM walkthrough imploring us to believe FF wasn't there when she got up.......proving to the world that the photo was true

She lied..her clear obsession in proving FF wasn't there is a deception in my opinion..Just to be safe in proving that the photo time was accurate she emphasised she didn't see FF and he had left before 8 to go collect scrip because he was really keen. What utter BS in my opinion. This is a ruse to prove photo timestamp

The inquest stated 9.37 is true. We know photos can be edited without detection. What we don't know is what proves to SFR and coroner that 9.37 is true. Perhaps there is nothing that proves it..

What playing did the neighbours actually hear?.

I think you went to the school of common sense, despite you're an angry bull or are you an angry energy drink?

The activities that the children were said to have done after 9am to 9:37am is almost impossible, there's not enough time.
Remember if you're on Team 9:37am and you know the Spedding call happens at 9:04am, GO 9:10am we're left with riding the bikes, taking William down to the tree, Lindsay then apparently wanting to do the same thing as what William did the tree in 27 minutes. We know Lindsay says William goes off the deck looking for Daddy's car.

Did these detectives in that initial week use a calculator by chance? Was anyone smart enough on the force to say, there's not enough time to do all these activities?

 

[31550]

The theory is, it's all a lie. Let's be very clear, that's an opinion, not stated as fact. Just like the secrets in JFK files, it's probably not the right place to put the cards on the table.

That's still not a theory.
Yes, the stories are full of lies. Everyone cannot be telling the truth. We have always known that.
But to think you have solved the crime you must put forward a theory of what YOU believe is the truth.
So, you don't believe the 9.37 photo? Fine, then how does everything else play out? How have the fosters managed to get away with what would the biggest criminal conspiracy this country has ever seen, and what is their motive for getting rid of a 3YO boy? If the 'Sunrise' photo is part of the plot, then the crime must have been planned weeks in advance. Why go to such extraordinary lengths?

Or is this just another case of someone coming up and saying "I know something you don't know, but I can't tell you what it is or how I know!, But I really know what happened!". Because weve had a few of them already.

 

[LRitz]

Pardon me for asking, but you seem very direct in saying the time stamps were not altered? If I was in a court of law I'd be going to the definition, but since I'm not in court, Dr Google says:
"Altered is an adjective that describes anything that's been changed or modified"

The last time I looked at those deck photos the time was changed or modified.

The camera would have stored the information( the photo itself, the camera settings, flash as well as the settings on the camera for time and date) most likely on a memory stick or memory card. AFAIK the camera was handed to the police. There is no evidence of anyone altering this data. The police would not have altered or modified the camera or the memory card.

The photos that are released are from the police. It shows that the time the camera was set to when the photo was taken and the time that it really was in Benaroon. I do not think this information we see is a "stamp". Nothing is altered. They did a calculation. And AFAIK it seems that their smart IT forensic people are happy with that.

As i said if your watch was on the wrong time, and out by an hour, you would still know the real time. If you do not change your car clock for daylight savings (sometimes who could be bothered) for 6 months you just know that it is wrong and incorrect, so you add an hour i.e correct it.

As for not changing the time after returning from Bali. Same reason as i left the car time out for 6 months. Who could be bothered.The date on the camera is still correct. Might not even check the time on the photos for family snaps. Why do you allege she was fixated times?

 

[LRitz]

If the FM was so fixated on times, surely she notices the time is out during that 6 week period. FM notices cars in such fine detail, describes the wheels etc.

Where is the logic?

 

[Lady O]

Pardon me for asking, but you seem very direct in saying the time stamps were not altered? If I was in a court of law I'd be going to the definition, but since I'm not in court, Dr Google says:
"Altered is an adjective that describes anything that's been changed or modified"

The last time I looked at those deck photos the time was changed or modified.

I agree. It HAS to have been altered. It isn't even exactly two hours.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Though I'm very fascinated by any individual who wants to defend, almost shout from the roof top that proof of life has been confirmed as 9:37am. Here's why it's fascinating, because in a case that's spanned 10 years the times remain central to everything. Those in the abduction camp, they'll defend 9:37am until 10:33am when it's time to come home. However, if you have an open mind, that deception is at play, then you won't rule out the times of 7:37-7:39am.

You might want to do some detailed reading from a variety of forensic sources about how forensics can show that a time stamp (EXIF data) has been changed.

Often the tool used to change the time dumps its own metadata into the file, as Photoshop will.
Often the edit will show in other metadata of the camera as other metadata is erased by the change, at the same time.
Often geometric analysis will show that the light filter is not showing the correct shadows for that time of day.
If GPS data is involved, that will give an immediate sign in the metadata that the time has been changed.

Just a few examples of the many things that are looked at by a company like X Ways Forensics.

A person would have to be a forensics expert to overcome all of the challenges.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

You might want to do some detailed reading from a variety of forensic sources about how forensics can show that a time stamp (EXIF data) has been changed.

Often the tool used to change the time dumps its own metadata into the file, as Photoshop will.
Often the edit will show in other metadata of the camera as other metadata is erased by the change, at the same time.
Often geometric analysis will show that the light filter is not showing the correct shadows for that time of day.
If GPS data is involved, that will give an immediate sign in the metadata that the time has been changed.

Just a few examples of the many things that are looked at by a company like X Ways Forensics.

A person would have to be a forensics expert to overcome all of the challenges.

Debate has raged for some time about whether forensic testing would or wouldn't detect edits. Many posts here suggest a forensic trail wouldn't be detected and gave links to prove it

I'm a novice on these things so can't comment authoritatively..what I do know is that multiple leakages and lies seem to seek to protect this one fact about legitimacy of 9.37 as last proof of life

The likelihood that a death occurred at say 10 and all that followed was comfortably dealt with to allow a body to be hidden before 10.30 is just a ridiculous notion. This anomaly in behaviour alone suggests to me probability of edits.

We are told that the coroner accepts the time..but we aren't told what testing was done nor the level of confidence of detection from those tests. Until we are I will follow my instincts which scream out that 9.37 is a fake ruse to hide time about when a death allegedly occurred

Think about it. The usual time to report to police is 2 hrs..In a location with so many surrounding hiding places but secluded that time will likely extend not reduce as it was. They reported after about 20 minutes. That tells me that the alleged death was much earlier. You would struggle to expedite human reaction to a death.. They are in my opinion purposefully truncating the time to force us to accept an abduction because there was insufficient time for the alternative. Jubelin bought it and here we are 10 years later. I think the 9.37 time is a ruse. On my theory a death at 9.10 would allow 1 hr 20 min. That is ample time. Knowing the need for proof of life they and to promote an abduction they used their lack of suspicion to make the changes after the fact. The idea was spawned imo when wendy Hudson arrived and was shown WT images on camera without her checking more deeply.

Imo days later they remained concerned that police would shift the focus to early morning or veracity of timestamps and whereabouts of FF at that time. So the FGM was imo convinced to suggest FF had left before 8. If FGM didn't even see the FF before he left then no suspicion would arise on the actual time of those photos because it's corroborated by her they didn't even see each other..That then leaves the 9.37 photos and FF not there as proof positive that nothing has happened with FM and FGM until after the time of those pictures. Only I think he was there and WT was looking directly at him in that roar shot and it was before 8. I also suspect other pictures included him too but were deleted. They wouldn't know the police would check CCTV etc..Now the statement imo looks like an obvious lie because of Chemist opening time and CCTV. It fact it's either an outright lie or cognitive impairment but she wasn't so cognitively impaired to not remember seeing someone who was there FF.." we had breakfast then we were out here on verandah".

The reason given by FD was W going off in search of FF car. Why would she suggest that and W do that if FF had left an hour earlier and wasn't due back for another 1/2 hour? She wouldn't. But would IF he had only just left and there was an argument perhaps between W and FM at say 9.05. Knowing this anomaly they sought to change the narrative imo to say W simply went around the corner to play and roar. That wasn't what FD said was purpose and I believe her untainted statement. indeed it's possible the argument started with W wanting to go with FF when he left and persisted until it escalated and he stormed off defiantly. Perhaps FF snuck away not telling W and when he found out was furious. This then becomes....."going off the balcony in search of FF car".

We can't know precise detail but there needs to be a better explanation of FD explanation which is the only one we can consider wouldn't include lies imo

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have before posted relating to an anomaly on that back wall in one of the pictures. I know a dab tool can erase an entire person in a photo. What arises in replacement is hazy mix of what surrounds....more brickwork. The anomaly I saw is indicative something was erased at that juncture with floor and up the back wall where it becomes blurry. It's possible remnants of FF standing in that position. I'll check the photos again.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I agree. It HAS to have been altered. It isn't even exactly two hours.

View attachment 2209501

I didn't get on too well with TCP. Too much of his stuff was too hard to believe..But I do recall him saying at one point that the timing of photos was too close in spacing for having been done randomly and it was indicative of change. Something like that.

If that were true you could do a time and motion study to say these items on verandah can't have moved in X seconds

 

[InTheBleachers]

Think about it. The usual time to report to police is 2 hrs..In a location with so many surrounding hiding places but secluded that time will likely extend not reduce as it was. They reported after about 20 minutes. That tells me that the alleged death was much earlier.

Cleo Smith was reported missing 23 minutes after her parents discovered she was gone and they couldn't find her in the immediate vicinity of the remote campsite.

Madeleine McCann was reported missing about 10 minutes after she was discovered to be gone from her bed.

Abduction of Cleo Smith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Cleo Smith was reported missing 23 minutes after her parents discovered she was gone and they couldn't find her in the immediate vicinity of the remote campsite.

Madeleine McCann was reported missing about 10 minutes after she was discovered to be gone from her bed.

Abduction of Cleo Smith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both were situations where the child was asleep in an apartment/ tent under the control of the parent so should not have wandered at all.. The time i quote are mean calculations quoted also at the inquest for actual statistics and extend past the limited scope of your two examples. When a child was ostensibly playing in a remote semi regional location on a street that no one ever visits the presumption won't be abduction, not until all close locations are searched. The context and time will be compatible with that. It should have been at least 2 hours but was 20 minutes because in my opinion his fate was already known.