Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[passball]

I know nothing about cameras, photos, exif, etc, all foreign to me.
If 2 identical cameras were purchased in Bali could the data be played around with if they used both of those cameras somehow to get the photo? And that created time, 7.39am?

Is anyone seeing a bump on his forehead, at the start of his part of his hair?

 

[Lady O]

If police thought the photos could have been taken two hours earlier (but can’t prove it) wouldn’t they have been looking at other possibilities or would they still think FF went into town so he had an alibi.
I don’t think police really know. It’s FM who said she took a drive and they seem to be running with it.

We don't really know why the Police suspect FM of disposing of WT's body after a fatal accident.

It could be her contradictory statements and those of FF & FGM and perhaps even something LT said.

It could be the issue with the photos as proof of life and when exactly they were taken.

It could be the drive to the riding school, which seems to have occurred prior to her search in the immediate neighbourhood.

It could be the contentious statement made days later about cars across the road and the man in the green car, which cannot be confirmed, and which seem to be false and seeking to divert the investigation towards abduction.

It could be to do with (both) their behaviour towards LT (and another child?), that were captured on tape after WT went missing.

There may be other reasons, even more compelling, but perhaps unable to be supported with evidence sufficient to lay charges.

It could be a combination of the above.

 

[Underarrest_]

We don't really know why the Police suspect FM of disposing of WT's body after a fatal accident.

It could be her contradictory statements and those of FF & FGM and perhaps even something LT said.

It could be the issue with the photos as proof of life and when exactly they were taken.

It could be the drive to the riding school, which seems to have occurred prior to her search in the immediate neighbourhood.

It could be the contentious statement made days later about cars across the road and the man in the green car, which cannot be confirmed, and which seem to be false and seeking to divert the investigation towards abduction.

It could be to do with (both) their behaviour towards LT (and another child?), that were captured on tape after WT went missing.

There may be other reasons, even more compelling, but perhaps unable to be supported with evidence sufficient to lay charges.

It could be a combination of the above.

Very true, any of these could support a theory. Police must have some evidence to support the brief they sent to the DPP. Maybe they just need to find another car to support their theory.

 

[Underarrest_]

I know nothing about cameras, photos, exif, etc, all foreign to me.
If 2 identical cameras were purchased in Bali could the data be played around with if they used both of those cameras somehow to get the photo? And that created time, 7.39am?

Is anyone seeing a bump on his forehead, at the start of his part of his hair?

Passball, on his left part?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This is the problem. The car was heard by the Crabbs but not seen by anyone (but it’s believed that a car can’t enter or leave the area without being seen.)
No one saw this car. Police seem to believe FM disposed of William after FF came home so who was driving the car the Crabbs heard? Unless there’s evidence police have, it leaves it wide open for other possibilities IMO.

I don't believe what was heard was compatible with FM involvement at all at least not at that time 10.10..They heard a car coming down the street and FGM car was supposedly in the car port unless it had been taken out before Crabbs got home at 9.30. The car paused (enough time to place an envelope in mail box).

If this was FM involvement using FGM car then it was a return trip that stopped and collected something then drove away again. Either that or its totally unrelated BUT it paused directly in front of 48 we are told after doing a U turn. Is this the genesis of the early narrative that there were two trips in the car that morning ?

 

[31550]

This is the problem. The car was heard by the Crabbs but not seen by anyone (but it’s believed that a car can’t enter or leave the area without being seen.)
No one saw this car. Police seem to believe FM disposed of William after FF came home so who was driving the car the Crabbs heard? Unless there’s evidence police have, it leaves it wide open for other possibilities IMO.

I don't believe police have definitively established the time of the FM drive, so how can they say it was after FF came home?

 

[31550]

We don't really know why the Police suspect FM of disposing of WT's body after a fatal accident.

It could be her contradictory statements and those of FF & FGM and perhaps even something LT said.

It could be the issue with the photos as proof of life and when exactly they were taken.

It could be the drive to the riding school, which seems to have occurred prior to her search in the immediate neighbourhood.

It could be the contentious statement made days later about cars across the road and the man in the green car, which cannot be confirmed, and which seem to be false and seeking to divert the investigation towards abduction.

It could be to do with (both) their behaviour towards LT (and another child?), that were captured on tape after WT went missing.

There may be other reasons, even more compelling, but perhaps unable to be supported with evidence sufficient to lay charges.

It could be a combination of the above.

The most compelling reasons IMO are:

• William could not have walked away from the property in such a short time span without being seen
• No vehicles were seen entering or leaving
• Crabbs heard a vehicle that morning, and it has been shown that they can reliably hear a vehicle in FGMs driveway from their house
• FF vehicle left before William disappeared and returned afterwards, so it wasn't his vehicle
• Almost certainly William left Benaroon drive in a vehicle
• FM has admitted to driving her mothers car that morning

... therefore it makes sense to postulate that William left the property in FGM car driven by FM

As to WHY, we can only speculate, but

• there are conflicting stories about the activities that morning, indicating the truth may be being concealed - phone calls missed, breakfast timing and details
• there are no witnesses to the FM drive to verify where and when she went
• FM is unable to remember whether the drive was before or after FF returned
• the drive does not seem a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances - why so far and so soon?
• there is other circumstantial evidence which indicates there may have been some accident or incident - the wound to the FM hand, deleted text messages, for example, indicating a scenario other than abduction or wandering off
• FM behaviour since the incident indicates a tendency for certain behaviours IMO -

Although there is nothing in the public domain to indicate WHY FM may be responsible for concealing William, police DO know her identity, and therefore her past. There might be documented or known incidents in her past which lead them to follow this particular theory. Can't really say more than that.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't believe police have definitively established the time of the FM drive, so how can they say it was after FF came home?

If the car trip was at or just after FF got home then we assume W was already in the car.. She takes off and places the body somewhere and returns. Conducts a mock search in front of neighbours then goes and rings 000 at 10.56. About 25 min to do all that? Wow.

We keep repeating this notion of hurrying to for it to fit into the timeline when we know that no one knew WT had died and the only tine pressure FM was what she imposed upon herself..she wouldn't rush haphazardly ..She'd move quickly but be deliberate and certain. I highly doubt they'ed set off the alarm before he was placed in a hiding spot..

 

[31550]

If the car trip was at or just after FF got home then we assume W was already in the car.. She takes off and places the body somewhere and returns. Conducts a mock search in front of neighbours then goes and rings 000 at 10.56. About 25 min to do all that? Wow.

We keep repeating this notion of hurrying to for it to fit into the timeline when we know that no one knew WT had died and the only tine pressure FM was what she imposed upon herself..she wouldn't rush haphazardly ..She'd move quickly but be deliberate and certain. I highly doubt they'ed set off the alarm before he was placed in a hiding spot..

Hmmm but there is absolutely no reliable accounting for FM or FGM time between the 9.37 photo and around 10.35 FF return. This provides more than ample time to make the drive without any rush and without any eye witness. Nobody is on alert.

But after 10.35 FF is home, neighbours are in the street and aware of what's going on. And the 000 call is at 10.56. Very little time to hide a body and return as though nothing had happened IMO.

 

[Kora]

If police thought the photos could have been taken two hours earlier (but can’t prove it) wouldn’t they have been looking at other possibilities or would they still think FF went into town so he had an alibi.
I don’t think police really know. It’s FM who said she took a drive and they seem to be running with it.

The police were not aware of the time discrepancy until it was brought up by the Bio Dad's solicitor years later.

 

[31550]

The police were not aware of the discrepancy until it was brought up by the Bio Dad's solicitor years later.

I don't think that's right. Police were aware when they first examined the photos, and they arrived at the 9.37 time. The discrepancy was brought up again at the coronial inquest by bio Dad's solicitor, and the coroner called for another independent forensic exam.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Hmmm but there is absolutely no reliable accounting for FM or FGM time between the 9.37 photo and around 10.35 FF return. This provides more than ample time to make the drive without any rush and without any eye witness. Nobody is on alert.

But after 10.35 FF is home, neighbours are in the street and aware of what's going on. And the 000 call is at 10.56. Very little time to hide a body and return as though nothing had happened IMO.

This has been a contentious point for me all along. We must assume it wasn't planned and that it caused death. An incident like that whether accident or incident will absorb a slab of time for it to happen then deal with aftermath including resolving certainty of death AND you can't expect it to have happened fortuitously at 9 38 either. So yes that time window is tight. A little better than when I thought mock search started 10.20 but still tight..

 

[passball]

Passball, on his left part?

Yes, on William's left side but looking at the photo it's on his right.
I can see a bump at the very start of his hair part.
In the clearer photo which might have been photoshopped you can't see it.

 

[passball]

The most compelling reasons IMO are:

• William could not have walked away from the property in such a short time span without being seen
• No vehicles were seen entering or leaving
• Crabbs heard a vehicle that morning, and it has been shown that they can reliably hear a vehicle in FGMs driveway from their house
• FF vehicle left before William disappeared and returned afterwards, so it wasn't his vehicle
• Almost certainly William left Benaroon drive in a vehicle
• FM has admitted to driving her mothers car that morning

... therefore it makes sense to postulate that William left the property in FGM car driven by FM

As to WHY, we can only speculate, but

• there are conflicting stories about the activities that morning, indicating the truth may be being concealed - phone calls missed, breakfast timing and details
• there are no witnesses to the FM drive to verify where and when she went
• FM is unable to remember whether the drive was before or after FF returned
• the drive does not seem a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances - why so far and so soon?
• there is other circumstantial evidence which indicates there may have been some accident or incident - the wound to the FM hand, deleted text messages, for example, indicating a scenario other than abduction or wandering off
• FM behaviour since the incident indicates a tendency for certain behaviours IMO -

Although there is nothing in the public domain to indicate WHY FM may be responsible for concealing William, police DO know her identity, and therefore her past. There might be documented or known incidents in her past which lead them to follow this particular theory. Can't really say more than that.

There is nothing on the net about her except for her name being connected to
the charges after the disappearance.
There is no photo out there that isn't blurred, nothing about her job, nothing.
How is she completely hidden.
You have me curious now about her past, has she done something 'bad' before?

Wonder if they have done a paper trail of their finances, follow the money.

 

[Lady O]

There is nothing on the net about her except for her name being connected to
the charges after the disappearance.
There is no photo out there that isn't blurred, nothing about her job, nothing.
How is she completely hidden.
You have me curious now about her past, has she done something 'bad' before?

Wonder if they have done a paper trail of their finances, follow the money.

If it's an incident involving a foster child, then it's unlikely to be available in the media or searchable online.

 

[passball]

If it's an incident involving a foster child, then it's unlikely to be available in the media or searchable online.

I'm finding that's such a MASSIVE obstacle.

 

[31550]

There is nothing on the net about her except for her name being connected to
the charges after the disappearance.
There is no photo out there that isn't blurred, nothing about her job, nothing.
How is she completely hidden.
You have me curious now about her past, has she done something 'bad' before?

Wonder if they have done a paper trail of their finances, follow the money.

I don't believe this crime had anything to do with money.

Except if William's bio family had money it never would have occurred

 

[Lady O]

I don't believe this crime had anything to do with money.

Except if William's bio family had money it never would have occurred

And if fosters hadn't had money, we would probably know who they are.

 

[31550]

And if fosters hadn't had money, we would probably know who they are.

It's a bit ridiculous. Plenty of people know who they are. But their identities are still legally suppressed from publication.

 

[passball]

I have been reading about the Beaumont children.
What it's shown me is anything that you never imagined in your life can happen, IT DOES.
When the people involved, whether they are rich or poor, articulate or not, hold positions of power or upstanding positions or not, anyone can commit or hide crimes, IT HAPPENS.
Your 3 year old child is missing, tell the truth, don't invent stories. If you are innocent you don't need to lie or elaborate or narrate.

 

[Lady O]

There is nothing on the net about her except for her name being connected to
the charges after the disappearance.
There is no photo out there that isn't blurred, nothing about her job, nothing.
How is she completely hidden.
You have me curious now about her past, has she done something 'bad' before?

Wonder if they have done a paper trail of their finances, follow the money.

Naturally, I immediately started looking on the net for anything previous and came across this article, that I haven't seen before.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-blames-child-for-parents-violence-in-disturbing-tapes/news-story/8d80ce4ae61c633e860a2797aeefde74

It details recordings of the FM and LT, where FM pleaded guilty to assault. It is worth reading in full, but I am not permitted to post the entire article.

At one point the FM accuses LT being the cause of the problem, “If I’m physically hurting children, how do you think that’s making me feel? Because the problem is, you push it and push it and push it. Someone snaps and they lose control. If you get violent, it’s because people lose control and they can’t stop”.
Two days later, the FM again berates LT for not turning off lights or putting things away. The statement she makes here gives me the chills

“Where we’ll end up is me with a black garbage bag. Do you want to end up in that spot?” the mother asked."

And there was me, thinking it was a green garden refuse bag!

 

[Underarrest_]

Naturally, I immediately started looking on the net for anything previous and came across this article, that I haven't seen before.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/ce24990d64a09d5807c9911053cc1e89

It details recordings of the FM and LT, where FM pleaded guilty to assault. It is worth reading in full, but I am not permitted to post the entire article.

At one point the FM accuses LT being the cause of the problem, “If I’m physically hurting children, how do you think that’s making me feel? Because the problem is, you push it and push it and push it. Someone snaps and they lose control. If you get violent, it’s because people lose control and they can’t stop”.
Two days later, the FM again berates LT for not turning off lights or putting things away. The statement she makes here gives me the chills

“Where we’ll end up is me with a black garbage bag. Do you want to end up in that spot?” the mother asked."

And there was me, thinking it was a green garden refuse bag!

It’s disgusting and the FF is no better IMO.

 

[31550]

Naturally, I immediately started looking on the net for anything previous and came across this article, that I haven't seen before.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/ce24990d64a09d5807c9911053cc1e89

It details recordings of the FM and LT, where FM pleaded guilty to assault. It is worth reading in full, but I am not permitted to post the entire article.

At one point the FM accuses LT being the cause of the problem, “If I’m physically hurting children, how do you think that’s making me feel? Because the problem is, you push it and push it and push it. Someone snaps and they lose control. If you get violent, it’s because people lose control and they can’t stop”.
Two days later, the FM again berates LT for not turning off lights or putting things away. The statement she makes here gives me the chills

“Where we’ll end up is me with a black garbage bag. Do you want to end up in that spot?” the mother asked."

And there was me, thinking it was a green garden refuse bag!

Something definitely amiss when an adult carer can even suggest that a child is somehow responsible for their own situation.

 

[passball]

Naturally, I immediately started looking on the net for anything previous and came across this article, that I haven't seen before.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/ce24990d64a09d5807c9911053cc1e89

It details recordings of the FM and LT, where FM pleaded guilty to assault. It is worth reading in full, but I am not permitted to post the entire article.

At one point the FM accuses LT being the cause of the problem, “If I’m physically hurting children, how do you think that’s making me feel? Because the problem is, you push it and push it and push it. Someone snaps and they lose control. If you get violent, it’s because people lose control and they can’t stop”.
Two days later, the FM again berates LT for not turning off lights or putting things away. The statement she makes here gives me the chills

“Where we’ll end up is me with a black garbage bag. Do you want to end up in that spot?” the mother asked."

And there was me, thinking it was a green garden refuse bag!

What the hell. Wtf.
In a black garbage bag, and people still believe and support FMs behaviour.
Who says that TO ANYONE?
If you don't think she can hide a body due to an incident/accident in such a short time always remember what she said about the garbage. That's is a callous and disgusting thing to say.

I thought your suggestion of the garden refuse bag was a great theory.

And what was in the barrel the FF was flogging on Marketplace?

 

[Kurve]

What the hell. Wtf.
In a black garbage bag, and people still believe and support FMs behaviour.
Who says that TO ANYONE?
If you don't think she can hide a body due to an incident/accident in such a short time always remember what she said about the garbage. That's is a callous and disgusting thing to say.

I thought your suggestion of the garden refuse bag was a great theory.

And what was in the barrel the FF was flogging on Marketplace?

The context of the conversation around the black garbage bag, appears to be the FD not puttings things away with the threat made, that if the FM has to pick it all up, it's going in to a black garbage bag.

Either for storage or she's going to throw it all out.