Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Kurve]

Naturally, I immediately started looking on the net for anything previous and came across this article, that I haven't seen before.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/ce24990d64a09d5807c9911053cc1e89

It details recordings of the FM and LT, where FM pleaded guilty to assault. It is worth reading in full, but I am not permitted to post the entire article.

At one point the FM accuses LT being the cause of the problem, “If I’m physically hurting children, how do you think that’s making me feel? Because the problem is, you push it and push it and push it. Someone snaps and they lose control. If you get violent, it’s because people lose control and they can’t stop”.
Two days later, the FM again berates LT for not turning off lights or putting things away. The statement she makes here gives me the chills

“Where we’ll end up is me with a black garbage bag. Do you want to end up in that spot?” the mother asked."

And there was me, thinking it was a green garden refuse bag!

Have you provided the correct link? I cant find reference to the black garbage bag in the link supplied.

 

[31550]

Have you provided the correct link? I cant find reference to the black garbage bag in the link supplied.

This link mentions the garbage bag.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-blames-child-for-parents-violence-in-disturbing-tapes/news-story/8d80ce4ae61c633e860a2797aeefde74?amp

 

[Lady O]

Have you provided the correct link? I cant find reference to the black garbage bag in the link supplied.

You are right, don't know how that happened. Will edit my post.

 

[passball]

Wooden spoons, possibly on the head, kicking, and now slapping the face.
What a good mumma.

 

[LRitz]

The most compelling reasons IMO are:

• William could not have walked away from the property in such a short time span without being seen
• No vehicles were seen entering or leaving
• Crabbs heard a vehicle that morning, and it has been shown that they can reliably hear a vehicle in FGMs driveway from their house
• FF vehicle left before William disappeared and returned afterwards, so it wasn't his vehicle
• Almost certainly William left Benaroon drive in a vehicle
• FM has admitted to driving her mothers car that morning

... therefore it makes sense to postulate that William left the property in FGM car driven by FM

As to WHY, we can only speculate, but

• there are conflicting stories about the activities that morning, indicating the truth may be being concealed - phone calls missed, breakfast timing and details
• there are no witnesses to the FM drive to verify where and when she went
• FM is unable to remember whether the drive was before or after FF returned
• the drive does not seem a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances - why so far and so soon?
• there is other circumstantial evidence which indicates there may have been some accident or incident - the wound to the FM hand, deleted text messages, for example, indicating a scenario other than abduction or wandering off
• FM behaviour since the incident indicates a tendency for certain behaviours IMO -

Although there is nothing in the public domain to indicate WHY FM may be responsible for concealing William, police DO know her identity, and therefore her past. There might be documented or known incidents in her past which lead them to follow this particular theory. Can't really say more than that.

FM admitted to driving and in FGM's Mazda.
I get that you want to have a story that makes sense, but this may not be the case.

We know (proof) that the Mazda was found to be warm after 11:00 by the police, consistent with it being driven.
Who drove the car and where was it driven. The FM alleges that she drove the car to Cobb and Co as far as the riding school and came back. And as you say there are problems with this. As previous discussion, why not drive down the small side street off Benaroon, why turn right off Benaroon, why not check to the left off Benaroon, why get the left and right mixed up when saying where you drove. The police have done a big search, and asked for witnesses. No semi driver has come forward , AFAIK. The truck driver who was there that morning did not see a Mazda. (And the FM does not include this vehicle in her statement). Recent coroners court said there is no findings from the digs in that area . And the timing of the drive is not settled.

If you went somewhere to hide evidence, would you tell the police where you went.

I still think the missing piece is the time that the Land Rover drove back from Lakewood past the tennis club CCTV. We know FF was seen in Lakewood on CCTV. What time was that CCTV, was it when he arrived in the car park, was it before he started his work call. Do we know where he parked? In his transcript he say words to the effect
...And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to go afterwards...
He is seen buying the paper in the store in Kendall. But AFAIK there is no mention of Land Rover driving past the tennis club at the very important time that in the early days it was thought that Williams disappeared between 10:16 and 10:30. Is it just assumed that he left the chemist and then the time fits in with him arriving at the Kendall store (to buy the very important local paper) so no big deal. Assume nothing.

And the search by neighbours is not until FF has returned and both cars are parked

FM would have had time to drive to Lakewood and back, between the phone call at 10:03 and the photos .

 

[31550]

Wooden spoons, possibly on the head, kicking, and now slapping the face.
What a good mumma.

Yes the repeated threats of physical violence and intimidatory language directed at a young child paint a slightly different picture to the one most media articles portray.
It's certainly not out of the question IMO that FM could potentially not only lose control, albeit momentarily, and be triggered to actual physical violence, but to also distance herself from such behaviour and blame the child.
IMO this is not a person showing the required judgement, restraint, patience and understanding to be a suitable foster parent to a 3YO boy from a troubled background. I question her mental health and wonder how she might behave if pushed beyond her limits, or faced with challenging behaviour from the child.

 

[Underarrest_]

FM admitted to driving and in FGM's Mazda.
I get that you want to have a story that makes sense, but this may not be the case.

We know (proof) that the Mazda was found to be warm after 11:00 by the police, consistent with it being driven.
Who drove the car and where was it driven. The FM alleges that she drove the car to Cobb and Co as far as the riding school and came back. And as you say there are problems with this. As previous discussion, why not drive down the small side street off Benaroon, why turn right off Benaroon, why not check to the left off Benaroon, why get the left and right mixed up when saying where you drove. The police have done a big search, and asked for witnesses. No semi driver has come forward , AFAIK. The truck driver who was there that morning did not see a Mazda. (And the FM does not include this vehicle in her statement). Recent coroners court said there is no findings from the digs in that area . And the timing of the drive is not settled.

If you went somewhere to hide evidence, would you tell the police where you went.

I still think the missing piece is the time that the Land Rover drove back from Lakewood past the tennis club CCTV. We know FF was seen in Lakewood on CCTV. What time was that CCTV, was it when he arrived in the car park, was it before he started his work call. Do we know where he parked? In his transcript he say words to the effect
...And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to go afterwards...
He is seen buying the paper in the store in Kendall. But AFAIK there is no mention of Land Rover driving past the tennis club at the very important time that in the early days it was thought that Williams disappeared between 10:16 and 10:30. Is it just assumed that he left the chemist and then the time fits in with him arriving at the Kendall store (to buy the very important local paper) so no big deal. Assume nothing.

And the search by neighbours is not until FF has returned and both cars are parked

FM would have had time to drive to Lakewood and back, between the phone call at 10:03 and the photos .

Interesting that FF wanted to look out (instead of facing the wall.) what do you need to see if you’re on an online work call?

 

[LRitz]

Yes the repeated threats of physical violence and intimidatory language directed at a young child paint a slightly different picture to the one most media articles portray.
It's certainly not out of the question IMO that FM could potentially not only lose control, albeit momentarily, and be triggered to actual physical violence, but to also distance herself from such behaviour and blame the child.
IMO this is not a person showing the required judgement, restraint, patience and understanding to be a suitable foster parent to a 3YO boy from a troubled background. I question her mental health and wonder how she might behave if pushed beyond her limits, or faced with challenging behaviour from the child.

Threats of slap across the face.

William had a bruise / bruises to left side of his face in that first released photo in the orange shirt.
William had a second reported face injury / black eye in the weeks before he disappeared. Was that also on the left side of his face? As in previous discussion, black eyes are not a common injury for a 3 year old.

 

[LRitz]

Interesting that FF wanted to look out (instead of facing the wall.) what do you need to see if you’re on an online work call?

It could relate to where he parked at the shopping centre. Maybe there were lots of spots but he did not pick the spot closest to the chemist. Saying he wanted to look out, may be giving a reason where he parked.Maybe where he parked was further away from CCTV. All IMO.

 

[Underarrest_]

It could relate to where he parked at the shopping centre. Maybe there were lots of spots but he did not pick the spot closest to the chemist. Saying he wanted to look out, may be giving a reason where he parked.Maybe where he parked was further away from CCTV. All IMO.

I still say there seemed to be a big hurry for FF to be home at 10.30. As you say, when neighbours were alerted and all action go.
I struggle with the courtesy text from FF when 3 minutes away or letting FM know so the children could greet him.
No forensic evidence as far as we know in FGM’s car and as you say, why would FM tell them where she drove too.
The DPP have questioned if another car could have been used by FM. There it is, their own car. I don’t believe they would call a third party in if this is what’s happened.

 

[pinkjellybean]

The context of the conversation around the black garbage bag, appears to be the FD not puttings things away with the threat made, that if the FM has to pick it all up, it's going in to a black garbage bag.

Either for storage or she's going to throw it all out.

That's how I interpreted it too.

 

[LRitz]

I still say there seemed to be a big hurry for FF to be home at 10.30. As you say, when neighbours were alerted and all action go.
I struggle with the courtesy text from FF when 3 minutes away or letting FM know so the children could greet him.
No forensic evidence as far as we know in FGM’s car and as you say, why would FM tell them where she drove too.
The DPP have questioned if another car could have been used by FM. There it is, there own car. I don’t believe they would call a third party in if this is what’s happened.

If FM back at the house around 10:15, She could ring FF to alert him that she was back, there was a call that he did not answer while in the chemist. And yes, all of a sudden he in a rush to get back.Why? FM and FGM wait inside and this is when the tea is made. He now returns via the Kendall store and collects the papers, and short chat with the store keeper. He sends message to say his only minutes away, so they can get the cars into the driveway in the correct order. Possible FM could go to the street to make sure no one is there to see the Mazda return at 10:30.

Smoke and mirrors.

Not everyone is going to like this. But it is possible. Is there any evidence of where the LandRover was after say about 9:15?

 

[Lady O]

Yes the repeated threats of physical violence and intimidatory language directed at a young child paint a slightly different picture to the one most media articles portray.
It's certainly not out of the question IMO that FM could potentially not only lose control, albeit momentarily, and be triggered to actual physical violence, but to also distance herself from such behaviour and blame the child.
IMO this is not a person showing the required judgement, restraint, patience and understanding to be a suitable foster parent to a 3YO boy from a troubled background. I question her mental health and wonder how she might behave if pushed beyond her limits, or faced with challenging behaviour from the child.

It might reflect on her own upbringing. It is difficult when you have been raised to believe that "a good smack" fixes everything and if not "several better smacks" will do it. That has come down from parent to child for generations and it seems it can be the default position a parent takes when they cannot solve a behaviour problem in any other way.

The thing I wonder about was that LT was supposedly "the good child" and WT was the "difficult child". So if this is how the good one is treated, I hate to think how the naughty child was disciplined.

Was the reason the body was hidden due to some recent discipline that got out of hand, due to a parent losing their temper after WT "pushing it and pushing it until [they] lost control". I can see a 3yo trying to escape the punishment and maybe causing them to have a fatal accident.

 

[Poppy Penny]

Wooden spoons, possibly on the head, kicking, and now slapping the face.
What a good mumma.

And threatening to smear LT’s face in faeces….as a good mumma does.

 

[Percel]

We've been looking at the last image taken of William Tyrrell which is being used as proof of life at 9.37am, roughly half an hour before he went missing.

The camera was said to be set at Bali time which was 7.37am, at the time the image was captured.

Have you seen an image presented this way showing a 'Created Time' and a 'Corrected Time'?

If so, how did this 'Corrected Time' appear on the image?

TIA.

Where someone has gone into the backend of a photo it will be captured this way (corrected time) as you just can’t hide an amendment to the image data. Usually it mena someone has deliberately done it. Is there a mention of tampering (haven’t followed this one closely)

I’ve see photographic evidence (based on EXIF data) pulled apart where times and dates can’t be verified. But this is different.

People (crims) mess with phones times/dates to obfuscate, but it’s huge gamble noting devices including modern stand alone cameras now have GPS/location data embedded.

 

[Underarrest_]

If FM back at the house around 10:15, She could ring FF to alert him that she was back, there was a call that he did not answer while in the chemist. And yes, all of a sudden he in a rush to get back.Why? FM and FGM wait inside and this is when the tea is made. He now returns via the Kendall store and collects the papers, and short chat with the store keeper. He sends message to say his only minutes away, so they can get the cars into the driveway in the correct order. Possible FM could go to the street to make sure no one is there to see the Mazda return at 10:30.

Smoke and mirrors.

Not everyone is going to like this. But it is possible. Is there any evidence of where the LandRover was after say about 9:15?

Then FM, with FD meets FF and asks if William is with him then FF heads off to frantically look for William without asking any questions such as where have you looked and is he still in his Spiderman suit, does he have shoes on.

 

[Kurve]

Where someone has gone into the backend of a photo it will be captured this way (corrected time) as you just can’t hide an amendment to the image data. Usually it mena someone has deliberately done it. Is there a mention of tampering (haven’t followed this one closely)

Thanks, I thought you'd know.

So the cops could have done this when they accessed the images from the camera?

I’ve see photographic evidence (based on EXIF data) pulled apart where times and dates can’t be verified. But this is different.

You haven't seen it before?

People (crims) mess with phones times/dates to obfuscate, but it’s huge gamble noting devices including modern stand alone cameras now have GPS/location data embedded.

This camera was purchased in Bali before William went missing, so the model predates September 2014.

 

[Percel]

Thanks, I thought you'd know.

So the cops could have done this when they accessed the images from the camera?



You haven't seen it before?



This camera was purchased in Bali before William went missing, so the model predates September 2014.

I’ve never seen this and I’ve just had a quick scan on the net looking for more info on this image. It’s not truly clear.

Typically any amendment is made post download using secondary tools. So who did this, and did the authorities get the image direct from the camera, the SD card (or equivalent) or from a Mac/pc?

 

[Kurve]

I’ve never seen this and I’ve just had a quick scan on the net looking for more info on this image. It’s not truly clear.

Typically any amendment is made post download using secondary tools. So who did this, and did the authorities get the image direct from the camera, the SD card (or equivalent) or from a Mac/pc?

Apparently, William Tyrrell's foster mother just handed the camera to the police a day or two after he went missing.

 

[Percel]

Apparently, William Tyrrell's foster mother just handed the camera to the police a day or two after he went missing.

That is nuts, forensics will pull apart if that’s the case….you have me peaked now.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

We don't really know why the Police suspect FM of disposing of WT's body after a fatal accident.

It could be her contradictory statements and those of FF & FGM and perhaps even something LT said.

It could be the issue with the photos as proof of life and when exactly they were taken.

It could be the drive to the riding school, which seems to have occurred prior to her search in the immediate neighborhood.

It could be the contentious statement made days later about cars across the road and the man in the green car, which cannot be confirmed, and which seem to be false and seeking to divert the investigation towards abduction.

It could be to do with (both) their behavior towards LT (and another child?), that were captured on tape after WT went missing.

There may be other reasons, even more compelling, but perhaps unable to be supported with evidence sufficient to lay charges.

It could be a combination of the above.

The FM created a huge smoke screen with all her misdirection, changing of her version of events. In March 2015 she changed her story to have the FF standing in the adjoining room with her mother whilst the call to Spedding was made. All the while not a single detective in 2015 said hang how can the FF be now still in house at 9:04am. Perhaps they did but by then Gary ran the show didn't he? We know there was in-fighting on how the case was being handled.

It (misdirection - changing versions) literally left the task force with smoke in their eyes, couldn't see past the scenario of the FM sole involvement. How NSW police allowed her to give so many statements is beyond ridiculous. Bring on a full inquiry with trustworthy individuals to run it. Can we find anyone that we can still trust?

The cars in the street held back from the public for strategic reasons. That is the biggest load of garbage a veteran cop of 34 years has ever given. How'd that strategy go Gary? Simply there was no strategy because the cars never existed! The boogie men were never there, nor were the pedos like FA and friends. Death bed confessions, the stuff of Hollywood.

This task force has been working of the case for 10 years. Is it possible after Gary's removal they simply said let's run with the FM being the sole POI, we've had enough... and have a throw at the stumps. For those cops to believe she's responsible and removed him after 9:37am it might be time to hand in the badge and gun like Gary. The FM never removed him. Perhaps she might be nominated for a future acting award, she'd win it you know!

The whole investigation is a clusterfk, it reminds me of that Scooby Doo meme of Fred revealing the villain as himself.

Just so we all get on the same page, the corrected time can only be created in editing software on a computer. It wasn't done in the back of the camera. Again those defending the 9:37am time you simply can't justify it in 2025, what's your motive for doing so?

The greatest clue as to what REALLY happened is given by the youngest witness, and FACS were crapping their pants as to what she'd say in her walk through video. It ended abruptly, with the vultures circling her that day.

One can only hope that little girl who'd now be mid teens has been given the best professional care possible.

Who knows what she truly endured in the weeks,months years following inside the 4 walls once returning home. Okay we have the secret survillence audio, but that didn't cover the early years. I hate to think that the fear of god was put into her from such an early age post 2014. She will ultimately turn the tables on all the vultures and get justice for william and herself.

 

[stormbird]

I’ve never seen this and I’ve just had a quick scan on the net looking for more info on this image. It’s not truly clear.

Typically any amendment is made post download using secondary tools. So who did this, and did the authorities get the image direct from the camera, the SD card (or equivalent) or from a Mac/pc?

Percel, there was an article in The Australian, 02 Sep 2019, about the photo confusion, but it's paywalled.

Paraphrased:
The "created [time]" and "corrected time" categories were in a report by X-Ways forensic software; the report is in the brief of evidence for the coroner.
The image was a .jpg created by a digital camera.
Confusion reigned because police were unable to provide the court with an explanation for the metadata terminology used in the report. (But also the article says that confusion about metadata terminology is not uncommon.)
The article explains a bit about EXIF data and then:

Direct quote: "A modified or created date will normally refer to the time the image arrived on a computer, or else was edited, or otherwise accessed.

There are several explanations for the different time stamp on the photograph of William: the earlier time may be the right one; the camera may not have been adjusted for local time; the computer may have incorrect settings; or else the mistake may be in the report itself (a product of input error, for example).'"