Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The FM created a huge smoke screen with all her misdirection, changing of her version of events. In March 2015 she changed her story to have the FF standing in the adjoining room with her mother whilst the call to Spedding was made. All the while not a single detective in 2015 said hang how can the FF be now still in house at 9:04am. Perhaps they did but by then Gary ran the show didn't he? We know there was in-fighting on how the case was being handled.

It (misdirection - changing versions) literally left the task force with smoke in their eyes, couldn't see past the scenario of the FM sole involvement. How NSW police allowed her to give so many statements is beyond ridiculous. Bring on a full inquiry with trustworthy individuals to run it. Can we find anyone that we can still trust?

The cars in the street held back from the public for strategic reasons. That is the biggest load of garbage a veteran cop of 34 years has ever given. How'd that strategy go Gary? Simply there was no strategy because the cars never existed! The boogie men were never there, nor were the pedos like FA and friends. Death bed confessions, the stuff of Hollywood.

This task force has been working of the case for 10 years. Is it possible after Gary's removal they simply said let's run with the FM being the sole POI, we've had enough... and have a throw at the stumps. For those cops to believe she's responsible and removed him after 9:37am it might be time to hand in the badge and gun like Gary. The FM never removed him. Perhaps she might be nominated for a future acting award, she'd win it you know!

The whole investigation is a clusterfk, it reminds me of that Scooby Doo meme of Fred revealing the villain as himself.

Just so we all get on the same page, the corrected time can only be created in editing software on a computer. It wasn't done in the back of the camera. Again those defending the 9:37am time you simply can't justify it in 2025, what's your motive for doing so?

The greatest clue as to what REALLY happened is given by the youngest witness, and FACS were crapping their pants as to what she'd say in her walk through video. It ended abruptly, with the vultures circling her that day.

One can only hope that little girl who'd now be mid teens has been given the best professional care possible.

Who knows what she truly endured in the weeks,months years following inside the 4 walls once returning home. Okay we have the secret survillence audio, but that didn't cover the early years. I hate to think that the fear of god was put into her from such an early age post 2014. She will ultimately turn the tables on all the vultures and get justice for william and herself.

If FM lied in a statement that FF was there at the time of Spedding call .......WHY? Every single time there has been a perceived purpose to a lie. I was unaware of this one. If true why would she lie that FF was there listening to the Spedding call at 9.03!!!!! He'd been seen on CCTV at 8.40 so this is demonstrably untrue.

It just so happens to be the time I suspect W died shortly thereafter to stop anyone answering a call from GO. ( See my prior posts)

So what is the purpose here? Answer:

If FF was at the house at the time of his actual death if they were able to deduce that then there is someone who can attest to the fact that is untrue. Having him there serves THAT purpose. Of course she wouldn't know in 2015 the extent they'ed check FF alibi including CCTV, sales receipts so she was probably comfortable making that alleged lie. Absent that I see no other purpose to having him stay there longer by lie. She would know that the incident causing death happened within a minute or two of that call so lying about him being there is highly incriminating in identifying the time of death at just after that call..

If you ascertatin a lie and resolve a reason for its existence you can identify the crime imo

 

[31550]

If FM lied in a statement that FF was there at the time of Spedding call .......WHY? Every single time there has been a perceived purpose to a lie. I was unaware of this one. If true why would she lie that FF was there listening to the Spedding call at 9.03!!!!! He'd been seen on CCTV at 8.40 so this is demonstrably untrue.

It just so happens to be the time I suspect W died shortly thereafter to stop anyone answering a call from GO. ( See my prior posts)

So what is the purpose here? Answer:

If FF was at the house at the time of his actual death if they were able to deduce that then there is someone who can attest to the fact that is untrue. Having him there serves THAT purpose. Of course she wouldn't know in 2015 the extent they'ed check FF alibi including CCTV, sales receipts so she was probably comfortable making that alleged lie. Absent that I see no other purpose to having him stay there longer by lie. She would know that the incident causing death happened within a minute or two of that call so lying about him being there is highly incriminating in identifying the time of death at just after that call..

If you ascertatin a lie and resolve a reason for its existence you can identify the crime imo

You have to differentiate between a deliberate lie and an incorrect or inaccurate testimony or recollection. With so much, "I don't remember", and "I don't know why I said that", and multiple different accounts of the same events given over the space of 10 years, how do you ever prove something was a deliberate lie without any direct evidence?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

You have to differentiate between a deliberate lie and an incorrect or inaccurate testimony or recollection. With so much, "I don't remember", and "I don't know why I said that", and multiple different accounts of the same events given over the space of 10 years, how do you ever prove something was a deliberate lie without any direct evidence?

Because when something happens there are often bookmarks to memory for the event. In this case that would be the call to Spedding. You would or should know who was standing next to you at that time or was in the next room. The fact you don't is anomalous. If and when it is you look to see if it is self serving. It is. It is both because of the timing and also because he was 'in the other room' which conveniently still supports FGM lie that FF wasn't even there nor seen by her.

Enough of these and a familiar pattern starts to emerge. Imo she is a prolific liar and always lies to cover that which poses the risk and always in diametric opposite to the truth.

Let me pose a different question. Why would she seek a change to testimony if it is inconsequential? Does it really matter if he was there for call or had left 5 min before?.it shouldn't matter. So why then was it changed? It was changed because she felt FGM was a loose cannon and needed another person to support her if the truth ever came out after her falling out with her mum that that is when he died imo. I can almost read her like a book now

 

[Percel]

Appreciate another set of eyes going over this issue, but it has been discussed ad infinitum IMO.
Please remember there were 5 photographs, not just one. All had exactly the same time discrepancy.
Taken in the same place at the same time, so the lighting and shadows needed to be consistent with the weather conditions etc.
It was 2014 - digital cameras were not sophisticated.
Neither were there readily available tools for image or metadata manipulation.
Very few people have the technical skills and knowledge to do this.
Multiple forensic teams have examined the photographs and camera.
Even today, it's nigh impossible to 'fake' a digital photo and avoid detection by sophisticated techniques:
- metadata analysis, error level analysis, noise pattern analysis, deep learning and AI, metadata parsing, forensic artefacts analyses are all sophisticated techniques available to investigators.
It's inconceivable that a lay person in 2014 could fake FIVE photographs and avoid detection ten years later.
Furthermore, if the photos were 'faked' or manipulated, it indicates William's demise was pre-planned and we are looking at the greatest criminal conspiracy this country has ever seen. Either that, or the most incompetent police investigation the world has ever seen. Your choice.

I’ll see myself out then…….

 

[LRitz]

That is nuts, forensics will pull apart if that’s the case….you have me peaked now.

FM showed the camera with the photos on the day William disappeared to PC wendy Hudson. IMO, FM would have thought it possible that the police could have taken the camera that day. I doubt there would have been time for any one to change data in the camera.

The photos that have been released, that have been published would have come from the police files. it may not be the exact photo from the camera and camera memory card. The police may have renumbered their copy of the photo, or cropped the photos etc . We might not be seeing the exact original photos and data from the FM's camera. But that does not mean that the police and forensics do not still have those original photos, which would have been examined and which the police believe confirm the photos were taken at 9:35 to 9:37.

 

[LRitz]

Challenge accepted
Actually, lots of good pickups re anomalous and inconsistent stories.
But:
The Crabb's time of 10:10 is just an approximation. I think one said before 10.00 and one said after 10.00?
The FF missed phone call at 10.03 (and all phone calls for that matter) could be forensically confirmed by phone records. He gave the details of his phone activity and could be cross-checked against phone and internet records and verified with other parties.
FF movements are confirmed by CCTV camera at the tennis club.
The same CCTV camera apparently DOESNT show FGM car passing at any time.
Bonnet warmth is only anecdotal evidence - I believe it was Rowley who noted FGM bonnet was warm but this doesn't seem to be part of any official police statement.

Agree with two main observations:

• We have NO knowledge about the FM and FGM movements and activities between 9:37 and 10:35.
• We have NO knowledge about the alleged FM drive in FGM car - if it happened, when it happened, where it happened.

(Actually we have very little knowledge about anything that happened after 9.00am, but I do believe in the 9.37 POL photo, and understand that you do not.)

Not contesting this, but my question again, was FF in the Landrover seen returning past the Tennis club CCTV?

There are specific details and times we do have of FF's movements. The receipt in the chemist (was that 10:16), the message sent when in the Kendall store. The tennis club CCTV leaving Kendall. I do not recall anyone saying the time he was seen going past the tennis club coming back? Happy to be corrected if someone has this time.

And the FGM's Mazda was apparently not seen. Did they really look for it? There is another way to exit Kendall.

The drive in the Mazda to Cobb and Co is seeming less likely. No witnesses, no forensics found in the car, no forensics found at Cob and Co police dig. And no semi driver, who you would have thought would remember seeing a Mazda pull over and then that he acknowledged her again IMO.

 

[Kurve]

FM showed the camera with the photos on the day William disappeared to PC wendy Hudson. IMO, FM would have thought it possible that the police could have taken the camera that day. I doubt there would have been time for any one to change data in the camera.

The photos that have been released, that have been published would have come from the police files. it may not be the exact photo from the camera and camera memory card. The police may have renumbered their copy of the photo, or cropped the photos etc . We might not be seeing the exact original photos and data from the FM's camera. But that does not mean that the police and forensics do not still have those original photos, which would have been examined and which the police believe confirm the photos were taken at 9:35 to 9:37.

Questions were asked of the FM at the Crime Commission hearing about the time the camera was set to. If they were certain that was sorted out, why ask?

I understand that at the Coroner's inquiry someone proposed the cops theory was that the FM moved William AFTER the neighbours were alerted, which makes little sense to me but do you have a link where the cops confirm they're satisfied the images of last proof of life were 9.37am?

 

[Kurve]

I’ll see myself out then…….

I want to know what you think given your work.

 

[31550]

I’ll see myself out then…….

Don't be like that

 

[LRitz]

If FM lied in a statement that FF was there at the time of Spedding call .......WHY? Every single time there has been a perceived purpose to a lie. I was unaware of this one. If true why would she lie that FF was there listening to the Spedding call at 9.03!!!!! He'd been seen on CCTV at 8.40 so this is demonstrably untrue.

It just so happens to be the time I suspect W died shortly thereafter to stop anyone answering a call from GO. ( See my prior posts)

So what is the purpose here? Answer:

If FF was at the house at the time of his actual death if they were able to deduce that then there is someone who can attest to the fact that is untrue. Having him there serves THAT purpose. Of course she wouldn't know in 2015 the extent they'ed check FF alibi including CCTV, sales receipts so she was probably comfortable making that alleged lie. Absent that I see no other purpose to having him stay there longer by lie. She would know that the incident causing death happened within a minute or two of that call so lying about him being there is highly incriminating in identifying the time of death at just after that call..

If you ascertatin a lie and resolve a reason for its existence you can identify the crime imo

FF starts his work call around 9:16. So working back from this time, and adding driving time, park the car and set up for the call. Would be around 15 minutes from leaving the house, IMO. So to support this trip, and travel time, FM says FF is leaving around 9, and is running late, and then adds he was there for the call to Spedding, which is specific for a time for his departure.

When did the FM learn that the car had been seen on the CCTV? If the CCTV is correct, FF left before 9 and was not running late. But why not just say he left before 9, so he could be on time for the call. I find it all a bit of a puzzle. I have no idea.

 

[LRitz]

Questions were asked of the FM at the Crime Commission hearing about the time the camera was set to. If they were certain that was sorted out, why ask?

I understand that at the Coroner's inquiry someone proposed the cops theory was that the FM moved William AFTER the neighbours were alerted, which makes little sense to me but do you have a link where the cops confirm they're satisfied the images of last proof of life were 9.37am?

Agree, that it does not make sense to move William AFTER you have alerted the neighbours. And with so many people searching, any one could have checked, say inside the cars. (Kids have been known to hide in cars and can't get out) .And the police could arrive at any time. And why didn't the neighbours see the car drive away from the house and then back.

My assumptions are. If the police thought the photo was earlier than 9:37, then it would put FF's alibi out. But there is no mention of FF as being charged or POI. Coronors court also spent a bit of time with Peter the truck driver on who he saw near Cobb and Co and this was all after the 9:37 time. If they had serious reason to doubt the time and allege that the photos were tampered with, I think it would have deserved a mention at the recent Coroners Court. So it is the lack of discussion about the time that makes me feel that this has been accepted by the police.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If the time setting were changed without taking any photos then would there be any trail to check?

What if it was BALI time until after the Tv sunrise photos then changed to.local time but altered again to Bali time before handing camera in. None of the photos would have edits but police are convinced that they need correction to local time which they don't

 

[DropBearess]

I really don't know what to think about these times and sounds of cars. I live in a similar residential situation as FGM, as in there's only a few places one can go after passing my house. My corner of town is very quiet and l love a cuppa on my verandah most mornings. All my marbles are intact, but l wouldn't have a clue whose vehicles passed me on a given day, much less the times. There could be 10 or none. I don't see how one can discern this from one day to another when you've lived there for years.
It only takes one neighbour to be wrong, or there were no cars at all, and we've all wasted our time creating time lines, hence the entire SFR case collapses and goes back to square one.

I think one of the keys to this case has to be evidence from whoever JS had his conference with. Does SFR have this evidence, or is it unverifiable? How well did JS's client know him and how observant were they? One thing l'm sure of; whether William died earlier or later, it would be impossible for JS to conduct himself properly for 15 minutes if he knew of William's death, unless he was full of medication. What was his demeanour? I believe he genuinely loved William and wasn't intentionally complicit.

 

[Underarrest_]

I really don't know what to think about these times and sounds of cars. I live in a similar residential situation as FGM, as in there's only a few places one can go after passing my house. My corner of town is very quiet and l love a cuppa on my verandah most mornings. All my marbles are intact, but l wouldn't have a clue whose vehicles passed me on a given day, much less the times. There could be 10 or none. I don't see how one can discern this from one day to another when you've lived there for years.
It only takes one neighbour to be wrong, or there were no cars at all, and we've all wasted our time creating time lines, hence the entire SFR case collapses and goes back to square one.

I think one of the keys to this case has to be evidence from whoever JS had his conference with. Does SFR have this evidence, or is it unverifiable? How well did JS's client know him and how observant were they? One thing l'm sure of; whether William died earlier or later, it would be impossible for JS to conduct himself properly for 15 minutes if he knew of William's death, unless he was full of medication. What was his demeanour? I believe he genuinely loved William and wasn't intentionally complicit.

Dropbearess I could be wrong but I think part of the online meeting was a set up demonstration. It would be good to know how FF acted during this meeting. We know he got rid of the other caller very quickly because he needed to get home.
FF has displayed just as much violence as FM IMO verbal, physical and emotional. FF also knew of FM’s abuse towards FD but went along with it.
FF might not have been involved in William’s death but if FM is guilty, there’s a chance FF would go along with it. IMO

 

[stormbird]

IMO the discrepancy in the time of the tennis club CCTV is at least as important as questions about the authenticity of the patio photos, but it wasn't even mentioned in news reports from the inquest. It seems like the only information has come from court watchers: e.g. post 5,176 by BFew, and post 5,336 by alwaysintrigued, both in the part 2 thread.

In 2017, a neighbour's witness statement (when talking about his departure from the tennis club) said the time delay was 9 minutes (Daily Mail, 05 Dec 2021)

But according to alwaysintrigued's posts, in the last tranche of the inquest when Peter the truck driver was examined it was said to be 14 minutes.

The difference between those delays (5 minutes) is enough time for someone to drive between the camera and FGM's, or to drive from the camera out of the area (and potentially out of the list of possible POIs - because the only people who could have taken William were those who were or could have been in physical proximity to him when he went missing).

I don't understand how the discrepancy wasn't picked up for years, but also I don't understand CCTV or the analysis of vehicle movements.

From what I've read, it might be possible to cross-reference all the information police have collected (as WA Police did in the Cleo Smith case): vehicle movements, phone movements, phone call records, maybe Google and social media location records if they're accessible). But does the analysis rely on the accuracy of each of the records? (Garbage in, garbage out?) I'm guessing yes, that the inaccuracy of the Kendall camera's time might have messed up the timeline for every vehicle that passed it. On the other hand, apparently it's very common to have time delays with CCTV cameras, so maybe cross-referencing or video search software is able to highlight the sources that don't make sense so their inputs can be fixed.

 

[Lady O]

IMO the discrepancy in the time of the tennis club CCTV is at least as important as questions about the authenticity of the patio photos, but it wasn't even mentioned in news reports from the inquest. It seems like the only information has come from a court watcher: e.g. post 5,336 by alwaysintrigued in part 2.

In 2017, a neighbour's witness statement (when talking about his departure from the tennis club) said the time delay was 9 minutes (Daily Mail, 05 Dec 2021)

But according to alwaysintrigued's posts, in the last tranche of the inquest when Peter the truck driver was examined it was said to be 14 minutes.

The difference between those delays (5 minutes) is enough time for someone to drive between the camera and FGM's, or to drive from the camera out of the area (and potentially out of the list of possible POIs - because the only people who could have taken William were those who were or could have been in physical proximity to him when he went missing).

I don't understand how the discrepancy wasn't picked up for years, but also I don't understand CCTV or the analysis of vehicle movements.

From what I've read, it might be possible to cross-reference all the information police have collected (as WA Police did in the Cleo Smith case): vehicle movements, phone movements, phone call records, maybe Google and social media location records if they're accessible). But does the analysis rely on the accuracy of each of the records? (Garbage in, garbage out?) I'm guessing yes, that the inaccuracy of the Kendall camera's time might have messed up the timeline for every vehicle that passed it. On the other hand, apparently it's very common to have time delays with CCTV cameras, so maybe cross-referencing or video search software is able to highlight the sources that don't make sense so their inputs can be fixed.

And cameras, they can have up to 2hrs "lost". The only explanation was that there was a time warp when WT disappeared.

 

[passball]

And cameras, they can have up to 2hrs "lost". The only explanation was that there was a time warp when WT disappeared.

The CCTV might be the detail.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Appreciate another set of eyes going over this issue, but it has been discussed ad infinitum IMO.
Please remember there were 5 photographs, not just one. All had exactly the same time discrepancy.
Taken in the same place at the same time, so the lighting and shadows needed to be consistent with the weather conditions etc.
It was 2014 - digital cameras were not sophisticated.
Neither were there readily available tools for image or metadata manipulation.
Very few people have the technical skills and knowledge to do this.
Multiple forensic teams have examined the photographs and camera.
Even today, it's nigh impossible to 'fake' a digital photo and avoid detection by sophisticated techniques:
- metadata analysis, error level analysis, noise pattern analysis, deep learning and AI, metadata parsing, forensic artefacts analyses are all sophisticated techniques available to investigators.
It's inconceivable that a lay person in 2014 could fake FIVE photographs and avoid detection ten years later.
Furthermore, if the photos were 'faked' or manipulated, it indicates William's demise was pre-planned and we are looking at the greatest criminal conspiracy this country has ever seen. Either that, or the most incompetent police investigation the world has ever seen. Your choice.

You seem to be invested in the 9.37 time being right. Makes me more inclined to hold the line because I worry about your objectivity. it's not the greatest conspiracy in the history of the country even if 7.39 is true. All alleged criminals always seek to diminish their risk and are deceitful when they do..Several on the thread have already indicated that it's technically possible and without detection.. Perhaps it's as simple as using the bali time proven on TV sunrise shot as evidence it was never changed back to local when perhaps it was before returning to Bali setting again without more at the time camera was handed over..No changes to photographs. I don't know because I don't have required competence in this area. SFR and coroner have clearly got it wrong and that forces me to look at why. Time was always a critical factor in the case..

The time to report was much faster than normal
The time to deal with death and hide is incredibly tight
There was apparently no time lag between hiding and search
The time of FF departure seemingly hidden by FGM

The death if it happened wasn't detected by anyone so the FM had NO time pressure whatsoever yet the whole day seems pressured for time and I have to believe that is intentional so that the abduction theory could be more persuasive on the basis the alternative couldn't possibly have happened in the time available.

 

[BFew]

IMO the discrepancy in the time of the tennis club CCTV is at least as important as questions about the authenticity of the patio photos, but it wasn't even mentioned in news reports from the inquest. It seems like the only information has come from a court watcher: e.g. post 5,336 by alwaysintrigued in part 2.

In 2017, a neighbour's witness statement (when talking about his departure from the tennis club) said the time delay was 9 minutes (Daily Mail, 05 Dec 2021)

But according to alwaysintrigued's posts, in the last tranche of the inquest when Peter the truck driver was examined it was said to be 14 minutes.

Actually, I (a court watcher) confirmed this here on BF, the day before the other court watcher confirmed it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

IMO the discrepancy in the time of the tennis club CCTV is at least as important as questions about the authenticity of the patio photos, but it wasn't even mentioned in news reports from the inquest. It seems like the only information has come from a court watcher: e.g. post 5,336 by alwaysintrigued in part 2.

In 2017, a neighbour's witness statement (when talking about his departure from the tennis club) said the time delay was 9 minutes (Daily Mail, 05 Dec 2021)

But according to alwaysintrigued's posts, in the last tranche of the inquest when Peter the truck driver was examined it was said to be 14 minutes.

The difference between those delays (5 minutes) is enough time for someone to drive between the camera and FGM's, or to drive from the camera out of the area (and potentially out of the list of possible POIs - because the only people who could have taken William were those who were or could have been in physical proximity to him when he went missing).

I don't understand how the discrepancy wasn't picked up for years, but also I don't understand CCTV or the analysis of vehicle movements.

From what I've read, it might be possible to cross-reference all the information police have collected (as WA Police did in the Cleo Smith case): vehicle movements, phone movements, phone call records, maybe Google and social media location records if they're accessible). But does the analysis rely on the accuracy of each of the records? (Garbage in, garbage out?) I'm guessing yes, that the inaccuracy of the Kendall camera's time might have messed up the timeline for every vehicle that passed it. On the other hand, apparently it's very common to have time delays with CCTV cameras, so maybe cross-referencing or video search software is able to highlight the sources that don't make sense so their inputs can be fixed.

I remember the 9 min difference. it's staggering that it was actually 14 minutes and not detected for who knows how long.

In a case with massive focus on time having a known benchmark is critical. All the events can pivot off that which is certain.

At one stage recently I checked drive time to a destination I thought was possible. 8 minutes and it was outside search area. So yes it is a huge gap and problem

 

[stormbird]

Actually, I (a court watcher) confirmed this here on BF, the day before the other court watcher confirmed it.

Sorry, BFew! I'll go back and add you.

If there was anything of interest at the inquest hearings, please consider posting about it.

 

[stormbird]

I remember the 9 min difference. it's staggering that it was actually 14 minutes and not detected for who knows how long.

In a case with massive focus on time having a known benchmark is critical. All the events can pivot off that which is certain.

At one stage recently I checked drive time to a destination I thought was possible. 8 minutes and it was outside search area. So yes it is a huge gap a d problem

I agree, it's staggering. If anyone had checked a vehicle driving from Kew to Kendall - roughly a 5 minute drive - the Kendall CCTV camera would have shown them arriving at a time either 4 minutes or 9 minutes before they left Kew. So it's not like the delay on the camera could have been unknown. And I'd think any sort of inconsistency in timelines would have been checked somehow (against phone records or something). The whole thing is hard to believe, IMO.

 

[Lady O]

I agree, it's staggering. If anyone had checked a vehicle driving from Kew to Kendall - roughly a 5 minute drive - the Kendall CCTV camera would have shown them arriving at a time either 4 minutes or 9 minutes before they left Kew. So it's not like the delay on the camera could have been unknown. And I'd think any sort of inconsistency in timelines would have been checked somehow (against phone records or something). The whole thing is hard to believe, IMO.

I thought FF said he was delayed by roadworks?

 

[stormbird]

I thought FF said he was delayed by roadworks?

And?

 

[31550]

You seem to be invested in the 9.37 time being right. Makes me more inclined to hold the line because I worry about your objectivity. it's not the greatest conspiracy in the history of the country even if 7.39 is true.

That's incorrect and IMO unfair. I am not invested in anything, have no dog in this race, except to want the truth to come out and justice for William.

I'm completely objective. How? Because it's not based on any particular feeling or hunch or suspicion of mine. In fact, it's despite all my own feelings and prejudices. But the fact is, three different lead detectives, the NSWCC and the Coroners Court plus a number of other parties over the course of ten years have had opportunity to investigate the photographs and camera, all knowing full well that the timeline is critical to this case, and they have all arrived at the 9.37 time. All have been aware of the issues with timestamps. I have to accept that even though they might not be the smartest tools in the shed, they have access to more information, technology, skills and resources than I have - probably more than anyone. They are not operating in a vacuum - there is plenty of public scrutiny of this case from various stakeholders.

And yes, if the the photos were actually taken at ~ 7.30 then a massive conspiracy has been committed. It means several people have knowingly and deliberately and repeatedly lied. (It cannot be a simple mistake or a memory failure). It means a whole two hours have been inserted into the timeline, where the only possible explanation is to cover up a serious crime. It's not just perjury. And it means more than one person is a party to this cover-up of a serious crime - the very definition of conspiracy.