Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Underarrest_]

The Crabbs heard a car and assumed it was the postie. We know they got home around 9:40am and then prepared morning tea to have on their deck/verandah/balcony from where they could hear the car. They were attentive to the car because they were collecting their neighbours' mail. It was subsequently demonstrated and conformed while police were in attendance that they could, in fact, hear a car from this particular location. Their testimony is valuable and creditable. They heard a car only once, thought it sounded like the postie in FGM driveway stopping momentarily (no door shutting), and then continuing back DOWN Benaroon Drive (not up the gravel track).

IMO this is most likely the FGMs car when it left the house. We have seen that they parked their cars "nose-in". So the FGMs car leaving would reverse down the driveway and uphill to the left, stop momentarily, then drive off DOWN Benaroon drive - totally consistent with what the Crabbs heard.

We know it wasn't the postie as the postie was much earlier that day (reportedly).

Why did they only hear one car? Maybe because they had gone back inside, or maybe because the FGM car returning would go quickly straight up the driveway and park (slowly) nose-in. No reversing or stopping, and would not drive on the gravel at the top of Benaroon drive. The return trip would be quicker and more silent. This also makes me believe the return trip was closer to 10.30. Crabbs did not say anything about hearing FF return. Maybe by 10.30 they had gone back inside?

You mention time pressure. It's possible that FM was out on her drive under no perceived time pressure but received the 'Back in 5' text from FF unexpectedly at 10.30, and had to dash home quickly to intercept him? Note that he says he encountered her in the carport, and she asks "Have you got William?". Perhaps this was her way of explaining her presence in the driveway, or in her mothers car in case HE had seen her? - "I was just out in Mum's car looking for him" - perhaps HE wasn't supposed to see her in the car? Perhaps nobody was supposed to see her in the car? In any case the drive has been woven into the narrative as "looking for William". To me this is incredulous as it makes no sense to look for William on BCR without searching the house first, then Benaroon Drive, then asking the neighbours, then FF, then a whole lot of other things before getting into a car and driving several km away.

I can understand FM taking a quick drive down the road in case William had wandered off but not to that spot where she said she went.
It would be a good meeting place IMO.

 

[Kurve]

Mod Announcement

You might need reminding that neither the FM or the FF have been charged with having anything to do with William's disappearance this far.

That might change in the future but until then, take care framing your posts and making allegations that are not proved and presenting them as facts, be clear it's your opinion.

Spare me please, from needing to delete posts.

Thanks.

 

[LRitz]

LP

Per overington the Crabb's heard the car coming fast down the street like the Postie which is why they thought it was the postie. They said they thought it did a U turn then paused at 48. They didn't mention doors but said it paused long enough to deliver post

Perhaps it was FM but it's not a good fit for what they heard. FM can't have been going fast down the road like the Postie if in fact it was only reversing the short distance out of the driveway. I have concerns..Perhaps they were influenced by expecting the Postie. I don't know. Perhaps also they were influenced by the prospect what they heard was the abduction given that was what was being heavily pushed at the time ie confirmation bias

If it's not FM then there is no evidence on any car between 9.30 and 10.30 which only leaves between 9 and 9.30 when they weren't home

Hard to put pieces together. Just because it doesn't fit, it can't be disregarded off hand. Crabbes did hear a car. From what you say, they indicate the car drives fast on Benaroon toward 48. Turns around. Stops. They thought this would fit in with a postal delivery, but how long? Less than a minute or a bit longer .

All IMO. Trying with difficulty to word this in accordance with rules. So bear with my thinking and omissions.

All IMO, FM takes photo at 9:37. From 9:37 there is time to drive from Benaroon to Lakewood and be there at 10:00. FF ends his work call / demonstration at 10:00. FF walks to Chemist. The drive back to Benaroon is 10 minutes, that would be there around the time the Crabbes heard the car drive and stop at 48. Maybe there is not a drop off but instead a pick up. From 10:10 to 10:35, gives another 20 minutes before returning to Benaroon. FF sends a message to FM when picking up papers that he is near Benaroon. He drives into the car port and then.... The cars are in the correct order and the search does not start until both cars and FF are back. There is not witness AFAIK that saw the Land Rover return, or in seeing the Mazda being driven or return. Why did the FF have to send the message? Did the CCTV at Lakewood see the Land rover leave the shopping car park?

Was the Land Rover seen returning past the Tennis Club. There was a photo released from the CCTV regarding the story with W Hudson being there earlier that morning. The images are not very clear of the road. Number plates and drivers are not clear. Also this news report indicates that the CCTV is not clear. Did the police end up identifying every car? Interesting to know if there was an unknown car at around 10:05 travelling past the tennis club into Kendall. Jubelin was also looking for a four wheel drive. The time this car was seen on Benaroon is not reported.

G Jubelin also was reported to say ..."We also have reports of a four-wheel-drive leaving Benaroon Drive around the time that William disappeared." He said investigators were interested in any information regarding a four-wheel-drive in the area due to independent information received....."




"Investigators focus on CCTV footage in the search for missing toddler William Tyrell". Daily Telegraph November 15, 2014

"Port Macquarie Superintendent Paul Fehon, who is leading the investigation into the three-year-old’s disappearance nine weeks ago, said police were asking everyone who drove past the Graham St club before 11am on September 12 to come forward and identify their vehicle........
“We’re trying to match them up to see if we can eliminate the local cars and then see if we’ve got cars that are unusual,...
Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars.
We’ll look at the side profile of a car and if we can’t find identify some then we may have a new line of inquiry....”

 

[pinkjellybean]

This is wild speculation, but would it be at all possible that WT was going to go with FF for the conference call? Again, speculating, but perhaps the photos were in fact taken two hours earlier and were possibly followed by an altercation between WT and FM. We know there was likely to have been tension in the house that morning with the kids waking up early, FF trying to get ready to go and WT playing boisterously. Perhaps FF had offered to take WT with him, and WT jumping off the back verandah had actually been him going to find Daddy's car in order to get in it. This might have been when an accident happened? I'm trying to think outside the box, so don't crucify me thanks!
All IMO only.

* edited to replace "balcony" with "back verandah"

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Hard to put pieces together. Just because it doesn't fit, it can't be disregarded off hand. Crabbes did hear a car. From what you say, they indicate the car drives fast on Benaroon toward 48. Turns around. Stops. They thought this would fit in with a postal delivery, but how long? Less than a minute or a bit longer .

All IMO. Trying with difficulty to word this in accordance with rules. So bear with my thinking and omissions.

All IMO, FM takes photo at 9:37. From 9:37 there is time to drive from Benaroon to Lakewood and be there at 10:00. FF ends his work call / demonstration at 10:00. FF walks to Chemist. The drive back to Benaroon is 10 minutes, that would be there around the time the Crabbes heard the car drive and stop at 48. Maybe there is not a drop off but instead a pick up. From 10:10 to 10:35, gives another 20 minutes before returning to Benaroon. FF sends a message to FM when picking up papers that he is near Benaroon. He drives into the car port and then.... The cars are in the correct order and the search does not start until both cars and FF are back. There is not witness AFAIK that saw the Land Rover return, or in seeing the Mazda being driven or return. Why did the FF have to send the message? Did the CCTV at Lakewood see the Land rover leave the shopping car park?

Was the Land Rover seen returning past the Tennis Club. There was a photo released from the CCTV regarding the story with W Hudson being there earlier that morning. The images are not very clear of the road. Number plates and drivers are not clear. Also this news report indicates that the CCTV is not clear. Did the police end up identifying every car? Interesting to know if there was an unknown car at around 10:05 travelling past the tennis club into Kendall. Jubelin was also looking for a four wheel drive. The time this car was seen on Benaroon is not reported.

G Jubelin also was reported to say ..."We also have reports of a four-wheel-drive leaving Benaroon Drive around the time that William disappeared." He said investigators were interested in any information regarding a four-wheel-drive in the area due to independent information received....."


View attachment 2216835

"Investigators focus on CCTV footage in the search for missing toddler William Tyrell". Daily Telegraph November 15, 2014

"Port Macquarie Superintendent Paul Fehon, who is leading the investigation into the three-year-old’s disappearance nine weeks ago, said police were asking everyone who drove past the Graham St club before 11am on September 12 to come forward and identify their vehicle........
“We’re trying to match them up to see if we can eliminate the local cars and then see if we’ve got cars that are unusual,...
Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars.
We’ll look at the side profile of a car and if we can’t find identify some then we may have a new line of inquiry....”

POSSIBLE THEORIES
I agree the Crabb's car they heard sounds exactly like someone coming fast to meet and collect something at 48 at 10.10. But the FF timeline and alibi is tight. ..from the moment he left and was spotted at 8.40 ( or was it 8.54) it is full. 9.17 start of meeting. 9.56 finish......then papers and scrip before text and arriving home at 10.33. the window 10.33 - 9.56 is 37 min. One way takes 8' going fast. Therefore 24' total would be travel back to 48 return to chemist and back home again by 10.33. That leaves approx 13 min to co-ordinate papers and chemist scrip. Possible.

FF was caught CCTV on trip there at 8.40 to (or 8.54 adjusted) but no discussion ever of home trip. Perhaps it was never done because once SFR confirmed him at Lakewood no effort was ever made to identify the home trip ( partly due to difficulty identifying cars perhaps) because they became satisfied at his alibi. Is that possible?

FGM walk through she says words to effect that the FF immediately knew when arrived home....I don't know how he did perhaps the FM called him.

So the car heard by Crabb's possibly appears to be collecting something after driving fast down the street and then leaving fast as well AND was perhaps a land rover rather than the FGM car driven by FM.

This is wild speculation, but would it be at all possible that WT was going to go with FF for the conference call? Again, speculating, but perhaps the photos were in fact taken two hours earlier and were possibly followed by an altercation between WT and FM. We know there was likely to have been tension in the house that morning with the kids waking up early, FF trying to get ready to go and WT playing boisterously. Perhaps FF had offered to take WT with him, and WT jumping off the back verandah had actually been him going to find Daddy's car in order to get in it. This might have been when an accident happened? I'm trying to think outside the box, so don't crucify me thanks!
All IMO only.

* edited to replace "balcony" with "back verandah"

Yes I think it's possible. I think the whole going off to search for FF car was perhaps because W wanted to go with FF but wasn't allowed causing an argument or an accident. Perhaps it was never going in search of FF car because he was due home but rather because he was leaving.

 

[LRitz]

POSSIBLE THEORIES
I agree the Crabb's car they heard sounds exactly like someone coming fast to meet and collect something at 48 at 10.10. But the FF timeline and alibi is tight. ..from the moment he left and was spotted at 8.40 ( or was it 8.54) it is full. 9.17 start of meeting. 9.56 finish......then papers and scrip before text and arriving home at 10.33. the window 10.33 - 9.56 is 37 min. One way takes 8' going fast. Therefore 24' total would be travel back to 48 return to chemist and back home again by 10.33. That leaves approx 13 min to co-ordinate papers and chemist scrip. Possible.

FF was caught CCTV on trip there at 8.40 to (or 8.54 adjusted) but no discussion ever of home trip. Perhaps it was never done because once SFR confirmed him at Lakewood no effort was ever made to identify the home trip ( partly due to difficulty identifying cars perhaps) because they became satisfied at his alibi. Is that possible?

FGM walk through she says words to effect that the FF immediately knew when arrived home....I don't know how he did perhaps the FM called him.

So the car heard by Crabb's possibly appears to be collecting something after driving fast down the street and then leaving fast as well AND was perhaps a land rover rather than the FGM car driven by FM.



Yes I think it's possible. I think the whole going off to search for FF car was perhaps because W wanted to go with FF but wasn't allowed causing an argument or an accident. Perhaps it was never going in search of FF car because he was due home but rather because he was leaving.

We have timeline for people , receipts, chat to Kendall store owner. But we don't have a timeline for the cars. The cars don't have to be tied to the person.

Police believe the William was at the FGM's house at 9:37 when last photo was taken.

Police were looking for a 4 wheel drive that left Benroon around the time William was thought to have gone missing (its in the file). AFAIK there has been no report of details of that car. (Originally the time of missing was reported around some time after 10.)

FF was in Lakewood, from all the evidence, between 9:15 to about 10:17. FF actions give good tabs of his alibi with visit to chemist, and phone calls. Not really any time to get back to Benaroon.

Even if the Land Rover was not seen (or looked for) on the return there is evidence that FF is in Kendall buying the papers for the FGM. So as you suggest, police may never have bothered to check what time the Land Rover drove back because it was assumed that it must have been between 10:16 and 10:30. And assumed that FF was driving the Land Rover. Would the CCTV have given any view of the driver?

FM has from 9:37 to 10:35. (Treading carefully.) There would be time to drive from Benaroon to Lakewood and back between (adding a few minutes to 9:37) say 9:45 and 10:10 i.e. 25 minutes. It is about 8km and should be about 10 minutes, return trip 20 minutes. But if a car was travelling a little faster than the limit it could be done in less time. Crabbes reported that the car they heard was travelling fast.

Time between 10:10 and 10:35, if 25 minutes.

FGM evidence has been unreliable and at odds with the FM's statements.

it could be possible that FF arrives home before the FM. It is said that FM asked FF if he had William. But this is what the FM alleges. There was no witness to hear that conversation. FGM in her walkthrough is very vague about when she saw FF return. FGM says words the effect that she saw FF but not the car.

 

[LRitz]

Media said the tennis club camera was the only one that could have showed traffic going to FGM's. I think that's likely to have been wrong or a lie, but this single camera would have been a source of important information about vehicle movements through the town and it turns out that apparently for years the timing error, first said to be 9 minutes, was out by 5 minutes. If it had just been 9 minutes all along, okay; I'm supposing timelines can handle that sort of adjustment. But a change in the length of error years later? That just seems incredible, IMO. Will the police go back and re-examine the timeline of every vehicle now?

The tennis club CCTV could only see the cars side on.So May not have given as much important information as we think. They could not see number plates. It sounds like the police were dependant on people coming forward to declare their car. Maybe not so good for searching for a small unknown dark sedan. And maybe impossible to see the driver.

from the media police say
"...Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars.
We’ll look at the side profile of a car and if we can’t find identify some then we may have a new line of inquiry.."

 

[31550]

Police were looking for a 4 wheel drive that left Benroon around the time William was thought to have gone missing (its in the file).

Well, it was reported that Jubelin said this. But we don't know it for a fact. Jubelin may have said this to see if there was any witness to FF coming or going. Or maybe someone came forward with an account of a 4WD but it was never confirmed? There are a lot of red herrings and false leads. E g. Jubelin also announced a ground search near Cedars Logging Lane but we don't know why.

 

[stormbird]

We have timeline for people , receipts, chat to Kendall store owner. But we don't have a timeline for the cars. The cars don't have to be tied to the person.

Police believe the William was at the FGM's house at 9:37 when last photo was taken.

Police were looking for a 4 wheel drive that left Benroon around the time William was thought to have gone missing (its in the file). AFAIK there has been no report of details of that car. (Originally the time of missing was reported around some time after 10.)

FF was in Lakewood, from all the evidence, between 9:15 to about 10:17. FF actions give good tabs of his alibi with visit to chemist, and phone calls. Not really any time to get back to Benaroon.

Even if the Land Rover was not seen (or looked for) on the return there is evidence that FF is in Kendall buying the papers for the FGM. So as you suggest, police may never have bothered to check what time the Land Rover drove back because it was assumed that it must have been between 10:16 and 10:30. And assumed that FF was driving the Land Rover. Would the CCTV have given any view of the driver?

FM has from 9:37 to 10:35. (Treading carefully.) There would be time to drive from Benaroon to Lakewood and back between (adding a few minutes to 9:37) say 9:45 and 10:10 i.e. 25 minutes. It is about 8km and should be about 10 minutes, return trip 20 minutes. But if a car was travelling a little faster than the limit it could be done in less time. Crabbes reported that the car they heard was travelling fast.

Time between 10:10 and 10:35, if 25 minutes.

FGM evidence has been unreliable and at odds with the FM's statements.

it could be possible that FF arrives home before the FM. It is said that FM asked FF if he had William. But this is what the FM alleges. There was no witness to hear that conversation. FGM in her walkthrough is very vague about when she saw FF return. FGM says words the effect that she saw FF but not the car.

Bolded by me: "...police may never have bothered to check what time the Land Rover drove back because it was assumed that it must have been between 10:16 and 10:30."

That's a bit fanciful, IMO. I think it's more likely the police would have checked everything they could have, particularly in relation to the alibis of people who saw William last.

Detective Sergeant Beacroft (on the strike force from 2015 to 2018) re-canvassed the whole town of Kendall: every person, every house, every business, every vehicle, looked at who was at each of the premises between 9:30 and 11:30 that day, their occupation(s) over the previous year, whether they were owners or renters or in a share house, how each of them became aware William had gone missing, and followed that up with person-of-interest packages for more targeted inquiries. (That's according to a court watcher on another forum who was at the relevant inquest hearing. If any court watchers here can confirm or refute, please do.)

My point: the police reportedly tried to check everyone and everything within range of FGM's place, so I think it's unlikely they would have skipped checking FF's return trip.

And if anyone wants to believe this: from 2015, just after the start of the Jubelin era, bolded by me:

"The team have interviewed more than 1000 people. They’ve received more than 3000 pieces of information from the public. The analysts are now sifting through and cross-checking everything they have. They have established that around 200 people were within a 1km radius of William’s grandmother’s house when he went missing. They are checking and plotting the movements of every single one of those people."

The Australian, 18 April 2015

 

[LRitz]

Well, it was reported that Jubelin said this. But we don't know it for a fact. Jubelin may have said this to see if there was any witness to FF coming or going. Or maybe someone came forward with an account of a 4WD but it was never confirmed? There are a lot of red herrings and false leads. E g. Jubelin also announced a ground search near Cedars Logging Lane but we don't know why.

Could be. All possible.
This was reported Sept 2015 at the time the other parked cars information was in the media.
I do not know if it this information was released earlier. So one year later, you ask for information for someone's memory 12 months ago! Or did they notice this in the notes and see that no one had followed it up at the time.

It is specific to say they were looking for a 4 wheel drive. It does not fit in with the other alleged suspicious cars. So it could be a specific fishing trip. But it was known that FF was in Lakewood. So who were they looking for?

 

[LRitz]

Bolded by me: "...police may never have bothered to check what time the Land Rover drove back because it was assumed that it must have been between 10:16 and 10:30."

That's a bit fanciful, IMO. I think it's more likely the police would have checked everything they could have, particularly in relation to the alibis of people who saw William last.

Detective Sergeant Beacroft (on the strike force from 2015 to 2018) re-canvassed the whole town of Kendall: every person, every house, every business, every vehicle, looked at who was at each of the premises between 9:30 and 11:30 that day, their occupation(s) over the previous year, whether they were owners or renters or in a share house, how each of them became aware William had gone missing, and followed that up with person-of-interest packages for more targeted inquiries. (That's according to a court watcher on another forum who was at the relevant inquest hearing. If any court watchers here can confirm or refute, please do.)

My point: the police reportedly tried to check everyone and everything within range of FGM's place, so I think it's unlikely they would have skipped checking FF's return trip.

And if anyone wants to believe this: from 2015, just after the start of the Jubelin era, bolded by me:

"The team have interviewed more than 1000 people. They’ve received more than 3000 pieces of information from the public. The analysts are now sifting through and cross-checking everything they have. They have established that around 200 people were within a 1km radius of William’s grandmother’s house when he went missing. They are checking and plotting the movements of every single one of those people."

The Australian, 18 April 2015

Agree. Maybe they do know this.
But we know what that FF was seen on CCTv leaving Kendall. I have not seen what time the CCTV showed his return. It is known what time FF left the chemist in Lakedside and what time he was in the Kendall general store, that fits in with the timeline of a direct drive. So is it needed to find his car on the CCTV. It looks like if two cars were passing the tennis club at the same time the car travelling out of Kendall may have obscured a car driving into Kendall. No number plates. The police had lots of things to check. Maybe the assumed FF was in the Land Rover and assumed what time he wold have driven past the tennis club that was so close to the general store. So they do not feel that this was skipped.
Assume nothing.

 

[stormbird]

The tennis club CCTV could only see the cars side on.So May not have given as much important information as we think. They could not see number plates. It sounds like the police were dependant on people coming forward to declare their car. Maybe not so good for searching for a small unknown dark sedan. And maybe impossible to see the driver.

from the media police say
"...Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars.
We’ll look at the side profile of a car and if we can’t find identify some then we may have a new line of inquiry.."

I've wondered whether police might have had more than one reason for asking people to identify their own cars. IMO it would have been a wasted opportunity if they didn't check for more information at the same time.

Hypothetically, asking people to:

• identify other vehicles they recognised or remembered
• offer their phone details (if people can allow them to be used by police for location and time?)
• try to remember where they'd been before and where they'd been heading
• try to remember whether they'd been stopped by roadworks
• try to remember anything of interest along the roads
• try to remember whether they met or saw anyone in town that morning

Also, presumably at least some of the same vehicles would have been captured by the CCTV again as they arrived or left the photo-viewing in Nov 2014. That might have been useful for police - to see how the identified vehicles (with identifiable features like shape and colour, etc) looked in the footage from Sep 2014.

 

[stormbird]

The tennis club CCTV could only see the cars side on.So May not have given as much important information as we think. They could not see number plates. It sounds like the police were dependant on people coming forward to declare their car. Maybe not so good for searching for a small unknown dark sedan. And maybe impossible to see the driver.

from the media police say
"...Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars.
We’ll look at the side profile of a car and if we can’t find identify some then we may have a new line of inquiry.."

LRitz, re: "a small unknown dark sedan"

Which car are you talking about? I thought you meant FGM's but that wouldn't have been unknown in Kendall.

 

[31550]

Detective Sergeant Beacroft (on the strike force from 2015 to 2018) re-canvassed the whole town of Kendall: every person, every house, every business, every vehicle, looked at who was at each of the premises between 9:30 and 11:30 that day, their occupation(s) over the previous year, whether they were owners or renters or in a share house, how each of them became aware William had gone missing, and followed that up with person-of-interest packages for more targeted inquiries. (That's according to a court watcher on another forum who was at the relevant inquest hearing. If any court watchers here can confirm or refute, please do.)

That is clearly not true as nobody ever doorknocked Ron Chapman.

I've wondered whether police might have had more than one reason for asking people to identify their own cars. IMO it would have been a wasted opportunity if they didn't check for more information at the same time.

It seems plausible that they asked folks to come forward and identify their OWN cars as a process of elimination, so they didn't have to try to identify every single car which passed the tennis club. But how could they possibly identify every OTHER car without seeing number plates? It's ridiculous and a seemingly futile exercise. No potential offender is going to come forward and identify themself and their vehicle, and what are the actual chances of identifying which particular random white Hilux (for example) drove past the tennis club at 10:05?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

We have timeline for people , receipts, chat to Kendall store owner. But we don't have a timeline for the cars. The cars don't have to be tied to the person.

Police believe the William was at the FGM's house at 9:37 when last photo was taken.

Police were looking for a 4 wheel drive that left Benroon around the time William was thought to have gone missing (its in the file). AFAIK there has been no report of details of that car. (Originally the time of missing was reported around some time after 10.)

FF was in Lakewood, from all the evidence, between 9:15 to about 10:17. FF actions give good tabs of his alibi with visit to chemist, and phone calls. Not really any time to get back to Benaroon.

Even if the Land Rover was not seen (or looked for) on the return there is evidence that FF is in Kendall buying the papers for the FGM. So as you suggest, police may never have bothered to check what time the Land Rover drove back because it was assumed that it must have been between 10:16 and 10:30. And assumed that FF was driving the Land Rover. Would the CCTV have given any view of the driver?

FM has from 9:37 to 10:35. (Treading carefully.) There would be time to drive from Benaroon to Lakewood and back between (adding a few minutes to 9:37) say 9:45 and 10:10 i.e. 25 minutes. It is about 8km and should be about 10 minutes, return trip 20 minutes. But if a car was travelling a little faster than the limit it could be done in less time. Crabbes reported that the car they heard was travelling fast.

Time between 10:10 and 10:35, if 25 minutes.

FGM evidence has been unreliable and at odds with the FM's statements.

it could be possible that FF arrives home before the FM. It is said that FM asked FF if he had William. But this is what the FM alleges. There was no witness to hear that conversation. FGM in her walkthrough is very vague about when she saw FF return. FGM says words the effect that she saw FF but not the car.

Interesting. FF/ FM collaboration by FM trip to see him solves one of the major issues I've always had. Unilateral decision-making about WT to potentially hide a body as SFR asserts was always the less likely option.

Need to finesse the possibilities

 

[Underarrest_]

That is clearly not true as nobody ever doorknocked Ron Chapman.

It seems plausible that they asked folks to come forward and identify their OWN cars as a process of elimination, so they didn't have to try to identify every single car which passed the tennis club. But how could they possibly identify every OTHER car without seeing number plates? It's ridiculous and a seemingly futile exercise. No potential offender is going to come forward and identify themself and their vehicle, and what are the actual chances of identifying which particular random white Hilux (for example) drove past the tennis club at 10:05?

Agree, They couldn’t have talked to everyone in the town. Not sure if talking to the whole town is practical. Maybe? It would have made a lot of sense to door knock everyone in the street Ron Chapman lived in though given its location and at the time suspecting a possible abduction.IMO.
It would be interesting to know if the black/maroon sedan with the ladder on top and work vehicle identified by the truck driver, passed the tennis courts and came forward.

 

[DropBearess]

There have been some suggestions FGM had a male friend; a pilot perhaps? I wonder if he had a 4 WD? Maybe he was the extra person at Beneroon William was looking at? FM and FD's arrival was unexpected after all. My suggestion and opinion only.

 

[Underarrest_]

Has it been mentioned what direction FM and family would take to the cemetery to visit FGF’s grave?
In FF’s walkthrough, he says he found a walking trail to the cemetery. FM tells the 000 caller that she doesn’t know what the next street is. Doesn’t Ellendale Cres lead to the cemetery?

 

[stormbird]

That is clearly not true as nobody ever doorknocked Ron Chapman.

It seems plausible that they asked folks to come forward and identify their OWN cars as a process of elimination, so they didn't have to try to identify every single car which passed the tennis club. But how could they possibly identify every OTHER car without seeing number plates? It's ridiculous and a seemingly futile exercise. No potential offender is going to come forward and identify themself and their vehicle, and what are the actual chances of identifying which particular random white Hilux (for example) drove past the tennis club at 10:05?

re: "That is clearly not true as nobody ever doorknocked Ron Chapman."

No, it could be true. A detective visited Ron in April 2015, according to Jubelin's book I Catch Killers (2020; p.254 of the ebook). That wasn't for canvassing the neighbourhood, it was because police had heard about Ron's sighting. But Det Sgt Beacroft didn't join the strike force until a few months later, in September 2015, so her re-canvassing would have been done sometime in the years after that.

re: "But how could they possibly identify every OTHER car without seeing number plates?"

IMO, that's the value of cross-referencing information like CCTV footage. If police could see part of an unidentified vehicle on the Kendall camera and then "follow" it on other cameras, they might have been able to find a good view at one of the other locations, ideally on an automatic number plate recognition camera.

 

[passball]

IN MY OPINION.

I would like to know where the missing minutes of the CCTV went.
What could have been in those missing minutes?

Did Peter the truckie give a description of the work vehicle he saw?

 

[Underarrest_]

IN MY OPINION.

I would like to know where the missing minutes of the CCTV went.
What could have been in those missing minutes?

Did Peter the truckie give a description of the work vehicle he saw?

This is the only description of the ute I can find,

“After he picked up the excavator, he said he saw a grey dual-cab ute loaded with tools”

William Tyrrell inquest: Truckie offers no leads on missing toddler's location

 

[31550]

IN MY OPINION.

I would like to know where the missing minutes of the CCTV went.
What could have been in those missing minutes?

Did Peter the truckie give a description of the work vehicle he saw?

What makes you think there are "missing minutes" at all? Just because the CCTV time setting was out? Doesn't mean any recording footage was omitted or lost - it just had an incorrect internal timestamp.

 

[BFew]

This is the only description of the ute I can find,

“After he picked up the excavator, he said he saw a grey dual-cab ute loaded with tools”

William Tyrrell inquest: Truckie offers no leads on missing toddler's location

If I had any further info to add to this from being at the inquest that day, I would post it. But I haven't unfortunately.

 

[passball]

This is the only description of the ute I can find,

“After he picked up the excavator, he said he saw a grey dual-cab ute loaded with tools”

William Tyrrell inquest: Truckie offers no leads on missing toddler's location

If I had any further info to add to this from being at the inquest that day, I would post it. But I haven't unfortunately.

Thankyou.

What makes you think there are "missing minutes" at all? Just because the CCTV time setting was out? Doesn't mean any recording footage was omitted or lost - it just had an incorrect internal timestamp.

IMO
Probably because it was originally 9 mins out and then 14 mins so it makes me a bit suspicious when the gap changes.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Thankyou.

IMO
Probably because it was originally 9 mins out and then 14 mins so it makes me a bit suspicious when the gap changes.

I think it highly unlikely someone tampered with it. Time pieces can and do lose time over time. I don't think it's anything other than that. Everything will still be captured but on an increasing displaced time through a slow time piece .
What is a little concerning though is the SFR realisation of the change happens later meaning you can be working on misapprehension of time. That becomes a major problem especially as the difference escalates to 14 minutes. With a case with so much emphasis on time windows its a problem to possibly make wrong choices