Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[fazacs1]

If this theory is correct, It's more likely that the FM drove her FGM's vehicle from the house with WT to the area near the riding school / new search area for the drop off, which is quite deserted and that would avoid those cars being spotted by locals near her GMs house. She mentioned this trip later to police as an excuse for looking for WT, just in case anyone had noticed. But the counter evidence to this is the speeding - why would the 3rd parties speed away if this was planned and why would WT be in his Spiderman suit, as noted by RC ?. You would expect he would have been changed to avoid detection as the missing boy. Perhaps he was left in those clothes because he refused to change or to keep him happy, but that would be a huge risk. Speeding away might have been due to the emotional state of the 3rd parties. Regarding the FF - He would have gone to the Chemist so he could give himself an alibi on CCTV and stayed away until after the drop off deliberately. The most likely exit for WT would be the airfield down the road and he could have been in the air at the time of the 000 call. If this is really what happened it leaves open the possibility that WT is still alive, but most likely out of this country. One piece of this puzzle is - why did the FF change his ABN address details the day before ?. Perhaps there was some communication from the 3rd parties to the old address and he wanted to make sure all loose ends were closed off as much as possible.

FF also deleted 3 months of texts to FM and there is also that mystery phone or sim that was disconnected days before in FF name, that FF denied any knowledge of, so add that along with the ABN change very strange IMO

 

[stormbird]

Thanks for that stormbird, interesting collage of photos in the snapshot above, FGM on deck, depicts washing on the line where we observe one sheet hanging (looks like faint stripes on sheet) and if you continue watching walkthrough, you can see more clearly when FGM is on the grass pointing back to the deck) then if you look at the top bedsheet in the bedroom photo, they appear to match. FGM, does comment in the walkthrough about how messy the room is and also that she didn‘t know who slept where. Which IMO maybe the reason FM called Bill Spedding that morning asking when he was going to fix the washing machine. Another thing I find a bit out of sorts in the bedroom pic, is the lack of bedspread or doona in the image, haha, I know I sound crazy, but my grandmother would never have just blankets on a bed. I’m just off to track down the date of FF walkthrough, as there is different washing on the line (clothes).

Do you mean FM might have called BS the repairman because her mother was worried the house was getting messy? That's a possibility. It did seem strange to me that FGM commented on the "messiness" of the first bedroom. It didn't look particularly messy to me, it's just that the bed hadn't been made. If that was bothering FGM, you're probably right that there would normally have been a bedspread or doona on each bed. (On the other hand, the blankets didn't match and the sheets and pillow cases weren't in sets. Maybe FGM just didn't care about bedding and covers.)

The washing machine was repaired by BS on Thursday 18 Sep 2014 according to Missing William Tyrrell (2021, rev. ed. p.107). BS had made the appointment for 8:30 am, but the book doesn't say what time he finished. This was the same day the police walk-throughs were filmed; my guess (based on the direction of the sun) is that FGM was filmed early afternoon, then FM, then (after the sun was only visible at the top of distant trees) FF, but maybe instead FF was filmed first, early in the morning? There's different washing on the line in the FGM and FF walk-throughs, but there might have been time for the first load to dry and be replaced by a later one. The fosters went home to Sydney the next day, Friday 19 Sep 2014 (Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.110).

 

[31550]

FF also deleted 3 months of texts to FM and there is also that mystery phone or sim that was disconnected days before in FF name, that FF denied any knowledge of, so add that along with the ABN change very strange IMO

FF explained the deleted texts as a routine cleanup of his phone. This was done about 6 weeks before WT disappeared. Recent texts had not been deleted.

We don't know much about the mystery phone/SIM, but if it was disconnected BEFORE WT disappeared and no calls/ text / location data has been retrieved, it's supposition that it has anything to do with the case.

FF changed his ABN business address effective 11 September. (He also changed it again in Sep 2020). This isn't a crime. He may have been advised to do this retrospectively by FACS to further protect the identity/location of William's sister. Or it may have been a routine change. I don't see how this implicates FF in WT's disappearance - he kept the same residential address, phone number, car etc. It wasn't as though he could conceal his identity further.

 

[fazacs1]

Do you mean FM might have called BS the repairman because her mother was worried the house was getting messy? That's a possibility. It did seem strange to me that FGM commented on the "messiness" of the first bedroom. It didn't look particularly messy to me, it's just that the bed hadn't been made. If that was bothering FGM, you're probably right that there would normally have been a bedspread or doona on each bed. (On the other hand, the blankets didn't match and the sheets and pillow cases weren't in sets. Maybe FGM just didn't care about bedding and covers.)

The washing machine was repaired by BS on Thursday 18 Sep 2014 according to Missing William Tyrrell (2021, rev. ed. p.107). BS had made the appointment for 8:30 am, but the book doesn't say what time he finished. This was the same day the police walk-throughs were filmed; my guess (based on the direction of the sun) is that FGM was filmed early afternoon, then FM, then (after the sun was only visible at the top of distant trees) FF, but maybe instead FF was filmed first, early in the morning? There's different washing on the line in the FGM and FF walk-throughs, but there might have been time for the first load to dry and be replaced by a later one. The fosters went home to Sydney the next day, Friday 19 Sep 2014 (Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.110).

Thanks for that information Stormbird, awesome work, haha I’ll just ask you if I need any more information.

 

[fazacs1]

FF explained the deleted texts as a routine cleanup of his phone. This was done about 6 weeks before WT disappeared. Recent texts had not been deleted.

We don't know much about the mystery phone/SIM, but if it was disconnected BEFORE WT disappeared and no calls/ text / location data has been retrieved, it's supposition that it has anything to do with the case.

FF changed his ABN business address effective 11 September. (He also changed it again in Sep 2020). This isn't a crime. He may have been advised to do this retrospectively by FACS to further protect the identity/location of William's sister. Or it may have been a routine change. I don't see how this implicates FF in WT's disappearance - he kept the same residential address, phone number, car etc. It wasn't as though he could conceal his identity further.

Thank you for that information, I was just thinking that it seemed a lot of data had been deleted. I know I delete a lot of emails especially spam, but not texts from my husband, is this something most people do?

 

[Lady O]

Thank you for that information, I was just thinking that it seemed a lot of data had been deleted. I know I delete a lot of emails especially spam, but not texts from my husband, is this something most people do?

Yeah, me either. It's good to keep evidence!

I think if we were told that he deleted other messages as well, then it would be a clean up. If he only deleted FM's messages, then to me that is suspicious.

 

[31550]

Yeah, me either. It's good to keep evidence!

I think if we were told that he deleted other messages as well, then it would be a clean up. If he only deleted FM's messages, then to me that is suspicious.

We've discussed the deleted texts before.
In 2014 phones had limited memory, so deletion of texts in bulk was often necessary to free up storage.
If you've ever done this, you will find texts can be deleted by sender. Most recent/frequent senders first.
So if FF had regular text exchanges with FM, then she would be at the top of his contact list for text deletion, and probably have the most 'space to free up'. Also, he may have considered the casual text exchanges with FM as 'expendable', whereas his work texts he might decide to keep as more 'important data'. It makes sense to me that he would delete a block of texts from FM - nothing suspicious.
What would be suspicious to me would be if he deleted texts around the time of WT's disappearance, or selectively deleted just a few text messages, or deleted absolutely everything when WT disappeared. But he didn't. He deleted a block of texts which were exchanged over a period of time UP TO about 6 weeks before WT disappeared. It's not clear if he deleted texts with other contacts or not - there may not have been enough to warrant deletion to save space.

 

[fazacs1]

We've discussed the deleted texts before.
In 2014 phones had limited memory, so deletion of texts in bulk was often necessary to free up storage.
If you've ever done this, you will find texts can be deleted by sender. Most recent/frequent senders first.
So if FF had regular text exchanges with FM, then she would be at the top of his contact list for text deletion, and probably have the most 'space to free up'. Also, he may have considered the casual text exchanges with FM as 'expendable', whereas his work texts he might decide to keep as more 'important data'. It makes sense to me that he would delete a block of texts from FM - nothing suspicious.
What would be suspicious to me would be if he deleted texts around the time of WT's disappearance, or selectively deleted just a few text messages, or deleted absolutely everything when WT disappeared. But he didn't. He deleted a block of texts which were exchanged over a period of time UP TO about 6 weeks before WT disappeared. It's not clear if he deleted texts with other contacts or not - there may not have been enough to warrant deletion to save space.

Thank you for clearing that for me, sorry I’m new here, so I have probably missed this line of thought. So I appreciate you taking the time to explain

 

[31550]

Thank you for clearing that for me, sorry I’m new here, so I have probably missed this line of thought. So I appreciate you taking the time to explain

It's all good. We ALL need to constantly challenge our preconceptions and assumptions. That way, eventually, we get closer to the truth. We don't have many facts to go on, so most of us are just forming opinions and hypotheses, which should always be open to debate.

 

[31550]

Here is another picture, taken later that shows what's in the direction WT is looking and it's another chair.
WT is sitting in front of the plastic table looking up at the face of someone in that chair (occupied by the policewoman in this pic) and it's not his FM, FGM or sister. IMO - It can only be the FF, but unfortunately it's not proof without the FF in the pic.

View attachment 1431037

View attachment 1431045

I don't understand how "it can only be the FF". The FF was in Lakewood at 9:17 when he started his GoToMeeting. This went about 30 minutes, during which time he received a phone call from a client which went to voicemail. He retrieved this voice message and returned the call (still at Lakewood) at 9:45. Then he made the pharmacy trip and interacted with eyewitnesses in Lakewood. This is a matter of record. How could he have been on the verandah at 9:37? If there was another person on the verandah, it certainly wasn't FF.

Of course, if you believe the photos were taken earlier, (I don't) - then "all bets are off" in this respect.

 

[NRL Fan]

Even though it would be planned it is still an abduction and a crime. The emotional state would definitely kick in as would the FP saying when they would report him.missing. so I think they would speed. That is likewise an interesting observation too. It was like 30 min from time missing to 000 call. Thats extraordinarily quick for a missing child call which usually exceed an 1hr. But it's quick because you want to hide your involvement in an abduction perhaps

If we assume this theory, then the timings need to match RC's claim of the car speeding past his driveway at around 10:45. That would mean the drop-off occurred near Cobb and Co Road at around 10:43 and the FM would have left in the FM's vehicle at 10:40 and returned at 10:45am. This matches up perfectly with all of the reported times in the report and certainly has a level of credibility. I checked RC's address at Laurel St and it's on the way of Kendall, heading to Graham St and then out towards the freeway. The FF returns just after the FM got back from her drop-off and then they alert the neighbours and call 000.

In terms of communications, it's possible that the FF used the public phone down at Lakewood to contact the 3rd parties on the day of the drop-off and use his own mobile to contact his wife. However, there must have been contact beforehand to get this all set up. That's where the disconnected mobile SIM fits into the picture and possibly the change of his ABN address. It could also explain the deleted TXT messages to his wife that might have referenced the crime.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If we assume this theory, then the timings need to match RC's claim of the car speeding past his driveway at around 10:45. That would mean the drop-off occurred near Cobb and Co Road at around 10:43 and the FM would have left in the FM's vehicle at 10:40 and returned at 10:45am. This matches up perfectly with all of the reported times in the report and certainly has a level of credibility. I checked RC's address at Laurel St and it's on the way of Kendall, heading to Graham St and then out towards the freeway. The FF returns just after the FM got back from her drop-off and then they alert the neighbours and call 000.

In terms of communications, it's possible that the FF used the public phone down at Lakewood to contact the 3rd parties on the day of the drop-off and use his own mobile to contact his wife. However, there must have been contact beforehand to get this all set up. That's where the disconnected mobile SIM fits into the picture and possibly the change of his ABN address. It could also explain the deleted TXT messages to his wife that might have referenced the crime.

If it were Bio reps the contact could have occurred at those scheduled visits

 

[31550]

If we assume this theory, then the timings need to match RC's claim of the car speeding past his driveway at around 10:45. That would mean the drop-off occurred near Cobb and Co Road at around 10:43 and the FM would have left in the FM's vehicle at 10:40 and returned at 10:45am. This matches up perfectly with all of the reported times in the report and certainly has a level of credibility. I checked RC's address at Laurel St and it's on the way of Kendall, heading to Graham St and then out towards the freeway. The FF returns just after the FM got back from her drop-off and then they alert the neighbours and call 000.

In terms of communications, it's possible that the FF used the public phone down at Lakewood to contact the 3rd parties on the day of the drop-off and use his own mobile to contact his wife. However, there must have been contact beforehand to get this all set up. That's where the disconnected mobile SIM fits into the picture and possibly the change of his ABN address. It could also explain the deleted TXT messages to his wife that might have referenced the crime.

How does this align with the timeline of FF returning home at 10:35 and interfacing with FM and the neighbours? Where is WT at this time? In the boot of FGM car? At this time the neighbours were already looking for William as FM had already contacted AMS.

What does the ABN address change have to do with this? Or text messages deleted weeks earlier?

 

[NRL Fan]

How does this align with the timeline of FF returning home at 10:35 and interfacing with FM and the neighbours? Where is WT at this time? In the boot of FGM car? At this time the neighbours were already looking for William as FM had already contacted AMS.

What does the ABN address change have to do with this? Or text messages deleted weeks earlier?

When it comes to people's recollection of time, such as RC, 10 minutes is within the margin of error

 

[Awakening]

From official Facebook page.

I wonder why the certainty that William was abducted. There's no evidence of an abduction as far as I know.

It's still possible he wandered off and found a particularly obscure hiding spot. He was a tiny 3 year old.

If you look at it through the lens of the FM being a POI then it makes sense for a POI to point the finger at abduction.

If FM is innocent, then maybe she's aware of evidence that points to abduction?

When Cleo went missing the police had a footprint and dna from the tent that the public weren't aware of until after the case was closed.

 

[Lady O]

From official Facebook page.

I wonder why the certainty that William was abducted. There's no evidence of an abduction as far as I know.

It's still possible he wandered off and found a particularly obscure hiding spot. He was a tiny 3 year old.

If you look at it through the lens of the FM being a POI then it makes sense for a POI to point the finger at abduction.

If FM is innocent, then maybe she's aware of evidence that points to abduction?

When Cleo went missing the police had a footprint and dna from the tent that the public weren't aware of until after the case was closed.

I think the only "evidence" of possible abduction comes from the FM herself. The cars parked across the road and the fat man who drove past slowly looking at her.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's all I can think of.

 

[Kurve]

I think the only "evidence" of possible abduction comes from the FM herself. The cars parked across the road and the fat man who drove past slowly looking at her.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's all I can think of.

The dogs couldn't pick up his scent off the property either, so there's that as well.

Only other thing I can think of that points firmly to an abduction is that we've been deliberately misled and William wasn't wearing any shoes when he vanished. That seems unlikely as the FF and FM have both referred to the shoes he was wearing at the time in later interviews.

 

[fazacs1]

I think the only "evidence" of possible abduction comes from the FM herself. The cars parked across the road and the fat man who drove past slowly looking at her.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's all I can think of.

In the podcast I listened to today, the FM talks about the car driving slowly past and turning in the neighbours driveway, but then says she didn’t know if the windows were up or down and couldn’t see who was in the car, but now FM says he was fat and glaring at her, quite different stories iMO. And wouldn’t you try to do a photofit if you made eye contact and could describe him.

 

[Awakening]

I don't know what to make of it.

I'm thinking as a parent I would still be considering all the possibilities.

Even if I thought it was most likely he was abducted, because he's not previously wandered or because dogs didn't pick up his scent beyond the boundary it's still possible he could of wandered off.

I guess I'd expect them to say it's been so many days since William went missing as opposed to abducted or murdered or got lost in the bush.

I dunno something about it niggles at me.

 

[Kurve]

I guess I'd expect them to say it's been so many days since William went missing as opposed to abducted or murdered or got lost in the bush.

I dunno something about it niggles at me.

It's very sure phrasing and very specific wording that leaves no room for any other possibility, it's almost adamant. I understand what you mean.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think the only "evidence" of possible abduction comes from the FM herself. The cars parked across the road and the fat man who drove past slowly looking at her.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's all I can think of.

Yes and the FF saying he wasn't a wanderer. In other words it's not possible he ran off somewhere. Why? That's always the most likely at outset especially given the seclusion of street and region

There is guilty knowledge and they are painting a picture to hide that knowledge

 

[Awakening]

Yes and the FF saying he wasn't a wanderer. In other words it's not possible he ran off somewhere. Why? That's always the most likely at outset especially given the seclusion of street and region

There is guilty knowledge and they are painting a picture to hide that knowledge

I have issue with that too because kids especially at 3 are always developing and changing. One day they're crawling the next walking. Kids especially young kids are unpredictable by nature. And even adults are capable of doing something out of character.

If my child was missing under the circumstances William was, I certainly wouldn't be ruling anything out. Even if I felt it was more likely that he was abducted I'd want the police and the public to be considering every possibility so nothing is missed.

I will see if I can find the link but I seem to remember the tracker at the time felt they didn't look hard and thoroughly enough for William.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have issue with that too because kids especially at 3 are always developing and changing. One day they're crawling the next walking. Kids especially young kids are unpredictable by nature. And even adults are capable of doing something out of character.

If my child was missing under the circumstances William was, I certainly wouldn't be ruling anything out. Even if I felt it was more likely that he was abducted I'd want the police and the public to be considering every possibility so nothing is missed.

I will see if I can find the link but I seem to remember the tracker at the time felt they didn't look hard and thoroughly enough for William.

If I recall correctly there was evidence of him wandering away previously. Remember reading something about it.

 

[31550]

"Not a wanderer", suffered from asthma, thick bush around most of the property, fences, flimsy footwear. This indicates the only way William would have 'wandered' would have been downhill along Benaroon Drive. At his age and physical size he could only do about 3km/h in good terrain, and he wouldn't be able to keep that pace very long. He also can't go in a straight line for very long because of the terrain - he doesn't know the area so would likely wander in circles anyway. So there would really be only a very small target search area to cover. PD Gov did not arrive for several hours, but no scent was found anywhere other than the FGM property.

This suggests to me William must have been removed by car.

It's also nonsensical for FM to drive all the way to the riding school - he couldn't possibly have got that far on foot.

It's also nonsensical for FF to be searching properties well away from FGM's house - e.g. down on Ellendale Crescent, or thick bushland - he was the one who said William wasn't a wanderer, and that because of his asthma he would "take the path of least resistance".

It also doesn't line up with FM statement that she "immediately" thought "Someone's taken him!". She didn't convey that to the neighbours, the 000 operator, or the police when they first arrived.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

"Not a wanderer", suffered from asthma, thick bush around most of the property, fences, flimsy footwear. This indicates the only way William would have 'wandered' would have been downhill along Benaroon Drive. At his age and physical size he could only do about 3km/h in good terrain, and he wouldn't be able to keep that pace very long. He also can't go in a straight line for very long because of the terrain - he doesn't know the area so would likely wander in circles anyway. So there would really be only a very small target search area to cover. PD Gov did not arrive for several hours, but no scent was found anywhere other than the FGM property.

This suggests to me William must have been removed by car.

It's also nonsensical for FM to drive all the way to the riding school - he couldn't possibly have got that far on foot.

It's also nonsensical for FF to be searching properties well away from FGM's house - e.g. down on Ellendale Crescent, or thick bushland - he was the one who said William wasn't a wanderer, and that because of his asthma he would "take the path of least resistance".

It also doesn't line up with FM statement that she "immediately" thought "Someone's taken him!". She didn't convey that to the neighbours, the 000 operator, or the police when they first arrived.

The only reason I discount this now is because of the massive search launched at the time. It would have found him. The fact it didn't means it didn't happen imo