Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[NRL Fan]

What was the problem with drinking at the golf club at night time, did they say?

I haven't had too many late nights at the golf club but haven't heard of any issues. I have consumed reasonable volumes of amber ale in Kendall at the RSL and the only thing I noticed was that it gets cold there in winter when you exit at 11pm and the streets are dark and deserted. Most of the patrons are over 60 and are not exactly threatening, aside from a random walking-frame attack there isn't much to fear, although I do recall winning the meat tray raffle one time and they weren't happy to see 5Kg of prime steak leave to a non-local.

 

[Awakening]

I haven't had too many late nights at the golf club but haven't heard of any issues. I have consumed reasonable volumes of amber ale in Kendall at the RSL and the only thing I noticed was that it gets cold there in winter when you exit at 11pm and the streets are dark and deserted. Most of the patrons are over 60 and are not exactly threatening, aside from a random walking-frame attack there isn't much to fear, although I do recall winning the meat tray raffle one time and they weren't happy to see 5Kg of prime steak leave to a non-local.

New theory: FGM won the local meat raffle, but locals felt she cheated/was undeserving and are holding WT hostage until they receive 5kg in wagyu beef.

 

[NRL Fan]

New theory: FGM won the local meat raffle, but locals felt she cheated/was undeserving and are holding WT hostage until they receive 5kg in wagyu beef.

LOL, There is almost some credibility in that statement. When I left with the meat tray I had the entire patronage looking at me and the tray in dismay, as though I'd committed a crime and i was almost temped to take it back, but after all those beers it looked too good

 

[31550]

Not sure on the history of FGF and FGM. They seem to be in a smaller group of wealthier locals that are outside one of the main demographics. The FP's live on the north shore of Sydney not far from me and in a suburb where I grew up.

I got the impression from the media that the family had been in the area for a long while. If that is the case, it is almost inevitable that they would have come into contact with the highly-represented 'dodgy' section of the community. The extension of this is that it is quite possible some of those dodgy people were aware in advance of William's visit to FGMs place, so a 'planned abduction' is not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[fazacs1]

Just a diversion, but going back to the famous Spider-Man photo, according to FM, she is in a crouched down weird position taking the photo and WT is looking at HER, I’m trying to imagine taking a low down photo (camera being low)but the subjects eyes are looking high and to the side at you? Yeah, I’m not buying that scenario, you would need to have extra long arms and would be unable to see the screen from that position(head to the left and arms and camera to your right), so to get a photo with the child’s whole body in the photo would be a miracle, in one shot no less. IMO

 

[NRL Fan]

Just a diversion, but going back to the famous Spider-Man photo, according to FM, she is in a crouched down weird position taking the photo and WT is looking at HER, I’m trying to imagine taking a low down photo (camera being low)but the subjects eyes are looking high and to the side at you? Yeah, I’m not buying that scenario, you would need to have extra long arms and would be unable to see the screen from that position(head to the left and arms and camera to your right), so to get a photo with the child’s whole body in the photo would be a miracle, in one shot no less. IMO

We discussed this a while back. IMO - WT is looking at a person seated in a chair to the left of the FM who is taking the picture. In the same picture you can see FGM and LT, so we can only speculate it's the FF and the time of the picture is earlier than the reported 9:37am.

 

[stormbird]

Just a diversion, but going back to the famous Spider-Man photo, according to FM, she is in a crouched down weird position taking the photo and WT is looking at HER, I’m trying to imagine taking a low down photo (camera being low)but the subjects eyes are looking high and to the side at you? Yeah, I’m not buying that scenario, you would need to have extra long arms and would be unable to see the screen from that position(head to the left and arms and camera to your right), so to get a photo with the child’s whole body in the photo would be a miracle, in one shot no less. IMO

Maybe FM was just wrong about William looking at her? I think it's more likely he wasn't looking at anything in particular, just facing in that direction and putting all his attention into the roar. If FM had been standing on the ground near the clothesline (with the floor of the deck level with her knees), that would have made it easier to get the angle right.

Something I came across the other day, explaining why the deck photos seem to be all about William - they only look that way because we haven't been shown the entire photos:

From "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child podcast, 02 Aug 2019 on Listen Notes at about 35:34 mins (but the time seems to vary):

Caroline Overington: "The photograph was cropped by the Department before it was given to the media - to cut out William's sister but she's definitely in it, and so is his foster nanna, and it's definitely taken on the deck at Benaroon Drive."

 

[fazacs1]

We discussed this a while back. IMO - WT is looking at a person seated in a chair to the left of the FM who is taking the picture. In the same picture you can see FGM and LT, so we can only speculate it's the FF and the time of the picture is earlier than the reported 9:37am.

Oh I agree totally with you on that, it’s just that I was listening to a podcast and FM stated that he was looking at her in that roar pic and went on to say she was in that crouched down weird position and I thought that it would be impossible lol. Just made me think that she had been questioned about who WT was looking at and that’s the explanation she gave.

 

[fazacs1]

Maybe FM was just wrong about William looking at her? I think it's more likely he wasn't looking at anything in particular, just facing in that direction and putting all his attention into the roar. If FM had been standing on the ground near the clothesline (with the floor of the deck level with her knees), that would have made it easier to get the angle right.

Something I came across the other day, explaining why the deck photos seem to be all about William - they only look that way because we haven't been shown the entire photos:

From "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child podcast, 02 Aug 2019 on Listen Notes at about 35:34 mins (but the time seems to vary):

Caroline Overington: "The photograph was cropped by the Department before it was given to the media - to cut out William's sister but she's definitely in it, and so is his foster nanna, and it's definitely taken on the deck at Benaroon Drive."

You can see the FGM and sister in the photos, apart from their faces being blocked out. I agree the photo appears to be taken from the grass off the deck.

 

[stormbird]

I got the impression from the media that the family had been in the area for a long while. If that is the case, it is almost inevitable that they would have come into contact with the highly-represented 'dodgy' section of the community. The extension of this is that it is quite possible some of those dodgy people were aware in advance of William's visit to FGMs place, so a 'planned abduction' is not beyond the realms of possibility.

According to the Nowhere Child podcast, FGM had come into contact with DN (the person-of-interest mentioned by The Australian this week): from "Eyewitness", 06 Sep 2019 on Listen Notes at about 30:33 minutes but time varies; transcript by me:

Caroline Overington: "And we should say that we know that police also talked to one of Tasmania's paedophile priests, a man called Derek Edward Nichols, who would now [in 2019?] be 84 years old. He happened to be living in Kendall at the time and he knew the foster mum's mum. And it seems that they talked to him because he had been found guilty of a child sex offence in 1987 and he was therefore a registered sex offender living in the area. So I hope you can see a little of what police were doing in 2017 and 2018."

I think that's all the podcast says about him. And I think it's unusual there is only one report about his recent arrest, as far as I can find (see post 6,860 for a link to The Australian; the article is paywalled).

DN's latest case is listed for court in Port Macquarie at a future date, along with an apprehended violence application the same day. I don't know whether it's ok to post the details as I can't see what was said in the article - if the article doesn't give details I'm supposing we can't either.

If it's correct that DN knew FGM, I think that's enough to have made him more likely than a random person to have visited FGM's house that morning, and obviously it's only somebody in the vicinity of FGM's house that morning who could have been responsible for William's disappearance. Did police ever eliminate him?

 

[NRL Fan]

Maybe FM was just wrong about William looking at her? I think it's more likely he wasn't looking at anything in particular, just facing in that direction and putting all his attention into the roar. If FM had been standing on the ground near the clothesline (with the floor of the deck level with her knees), that would have made it easier to get the angle right.

Something I came across the other day, explaining why the deck photos seem to be all about William - they only look that way because we haven't been shown the entire photos:

From "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child podcast, 02 Aug 2019 on Listen Notes at about 35:34 mins (but the time seems to vary):

Caroline Overington: "The photograph was cropped by the Department before it was given to the media - to cut out William's sister but she's definitely in it, and so is his foster nanna, and it's definitely taken on the deck at Benaroon Drive."

The FM contradicts herself by saying she was crowched down taking the picture and then suggesting WT was looking up at her. It can't be both !!!. If you look at WT, he's looking up and to the right and if you look at other images of the deck, there is a plastic chair on the other side of the plastic table to the right of the FGM where WT is looking. We know that WT played the daddy tiger game and that indicates FF could be present.

 

[31550]

According to the Nowhere Child podcast, FGM had come into contact with DN (the person-of-interest mentioned by The Australian this week): from "Eyewitness", 06 Sep 2019 on Listen Notes at about 30:33 minutes but time varies; transcript by me:

Caroline Overington: "And we should say that we know that police also talked to one of Tasmania's paedophile priests, a man called Derek Edward Nichols, who would now [in 2019?] be 84 years old. He happened to be living in Kendall at the time and he knew the foster mum's mum. And it seems that they talked to him because he had been found guilty of a child sex offence in 1987 and he was therefore a registered sex offender living in the area. So I hope you can see a little of what police were doing in 2017 and 2018."

I think that's all the podcast says about him. And I think it's unusual there is only one report about his recent arrest, as far as I can find (see post 6,860 for a link to The Australian; the article is paywalled).

DN's latest case is listed for court in Port Macquarie at a future date, along with an apprehended violence application the same day. I don't know whether it's ok to post the details as I can't see what was said in the article - if the article doesn't give details I'm supposing we can't either.

If it's correct that DN knew FGM, I think that's enough to have made him more likely than a random person to have visited FGM's house that morning, and obviously it's only somebody in the vicinity of FGM's house that morning who could have been responsible for William's disappearance. Did police ever eliminate him?

DN was investigated at least as early as Feb 2016. I don't believe anyone has actually been eliminated.

https://www.themercury.com.au/news/scales-of-justice/cops-probed-disgraced-tasmanian-expriest/news-story/6d92824741419afda73880618064b03d

We can see that there is a direct link between FGM and DN. Also between FGM and Geoff Owen (who in turn is directly linked to Frank Abbott).
I am wondering if there's any links between FGM and Bickford or Tony Jones? Perhaps via GAPA, or maybe via the church? DN was a disgraced priest. Frank Abbot was a 'parishioner' of Martin Parish (baptist minister) and lived on his family's property. Did FGF or FGM belong to either of these religious communities?

 

[stormbird]

The FM contradicts herself by saying she was crowched down taking the picture and then suggesting WT was looking up at her. It can't be both !!!. If you look at WT, he's looking up and to the right and if you look at other images of the deck, there is a plastic chair on the other side of the plastic table to the right of the FGM where WT is looking. We know that WT played the daddy tiger game and that indicates FF could be present.

IMO it's clear that William was not looking at FM (if she was the person taking the photo). Her explanation doesn't make sense, but what does that tell us?

I think it's possible that William wasn't actively looking at anyone or anything at all. His face and eyes were turned in the direction of the second chair or something along that wall, but that doesn't mean he was deliberately looking at whatever or whoever might have been there. He could have been wholly focused on being a tiger when that photo was snapped, not caring about anything else. Tigers don't have any rules, they don't have to listen or respond, they can do whatever they want, and maybe William the daddy tiger just wanted to roar.

I don't agree that playing the Daddy Tiger game would indicate that FF could be present, not unless William only played that game when FF was around, or only ever called something "daddy" when he was referring to FF.

 

[Awakening]

DN was investigated at least as early as Feb 2016. I don't believe anyone has actually been eliminated.

https://www.themercury.com.au/news/scales-of-justice/cops-probed-disgraced-tasmanian-expriest/news-story/6d92824741419afda73880618064b03d

We can see that there is a direct link between FGM and DN. Also between FGM and Geoff Owen (who in turn is directly linked to Frank Abbott).
I am wondering if there's any links between FGM and Bickford or Tony Jones? Perhaps via GAPA, or maybe via the church? DN was a disgraced priest. Frank Abbot was a 'parishioner' of Martin Parish (baptist minister) and lived on his family's property. Did FGF or FGM belong to either of these religious communities?

Grandma seems to have known a disturbingly high number of paedophiles

 

[Awakening]

IMO it's clear that William was not looking at FM (if she was the person taking the photo). Her explanation doesn't make sense, but what does that tell us?

I think it's possible that William wasn't actively looking at anyone or anything at all. His face and eyes were turned in the direction of the second chair or something along that wall, but that doesn't mean he was deliberately looking at whatever or whoever might have been there. He could have been wholly focused on being a tiger when that photo was snapped, not caring about anything else. Tigers don't have any rules, they don't have to listen or respond, they can do whatever they want, and maybe William the daddy tiger just wanted to roar.

I don't agree that playing the Daddy Tiger game would indicate that FF could be present, not unless William only played that game when FF was around, or only ever called something "daddy" when he was referring to FF.

Do this in private or someone might call the cops but pretend you're a tiger and give a big roar.

Because when I did it - fully inhabiting the tiger character - my eyes naturally went up.

I have to concentrate and hold the roar pose in order to look straight at the photographer but maybe I'm a bit special.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

On what we've been told, WT was only left unattended for perhaps 5 minutes. Maybe less. It was also suggested that it was unlikely he would traverse the 70 metres to approach the road. Ok. We are then left with the unlikely scenario that the 'planned' abductors came into the street some time in that 5 minutes, say 2, ran up to WT from 70 metres away (without him noticing ) grabbed hold (without him screaming) and carried him back that 70 metres in the remaining 30 secs left to dump him in the car and take off without being seen by ANYONE.

FP are lying. Are they lying to cover negligence or criminal culpability?

I honestly can't believe they came in and abducted him like that. It's a street no one goes in unless they live there (per FP in podcast where's WT"). If however FM had taken him down the road to wait for FFto appease a tantrum then if he runs away from there it's a no brainer that an unattended 4 yo left there would be picked up by someone. "Come out now William or I'm going home". Carries out the threat but by the time she returns having 'taught him a lesson' he was gone.

Perhaps he threw a tantrum she took him thinking it would appease him but when she wanted to go back home he ran and hid.

Didn't LT say something about him going to see FF? Seem to recall something along those lines

"Have you got William?" To FF. "No, why would I have him"?

Two cars following each other....a couple. Then seen by RC

 

[BFew]

Do this in private or someone might call the cops but pretend you're a tiger and give a big roar.

Because when I did it - fully inhabiting the tiger character - my eyes naturally went up.

I have to concentrate and hold the roar pose in order to look straight at the photographer but maybe I'm a bit special.

Funny that.

I just tried doing it with a silent roar and my eyes naturally went up too!

 

[NRL Fan]

DN was investigated at least as early as Feb 2016. I don't believe anyone has actually been eliminated.

https://www.themercury.com.au/news/scales-of-justice/cops-probed-disgraced-tasmanian-expriest/news-story/6d92824741419afda73880618064b03d

We can see that there is a direct link between FGM and DN. Also between FGM and Geoff Owen (who in turn is directly linked to Frank Abbott).
I am wondering if there's any links between FGM and Bickford or Tony Jones? Perhaps via GAPA, or maybe via the church? DN was a disgraced priest. Frank Abbot was a 'parishioner' of Martin Parish (baptist minister) and lived on his family's property. Did FGF or FGM belong to either of these religious communities?

There is also a link between Bill Spedding and Tony Jones, who were friends. Although we know Spedding had a solid alibi for the time WT went missing, this linkage doesn't do him and favours. Why would anyone befriend someone with 90 criminal charges, including assault on children ?. Jones also has few redeeming characteristics as evidenced by his bogan appearance and aggressive and violent persona. Did Spedding mention the washing machine job to Jones ?. IMO there are still open links in this regard. Also, when you look at the police attack on Spedding and the attempt to charge him for historical sex offences, it kind of looks like police were trying to flush out information relating to Jones that he may of passed on, even if it was accidental.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

All the latest news, views and campaigns for Sydney and NSW.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

 

[stormbird]

DN was investigated at least as early as Feb 2016. I don't believe anyone has actually been eliminated.

https://www.themercury.com.au/news/scales-of-justice/cops-probed-disgraced-tasmanian-expriest/news-story/6d92824741419afda73880618064b03d

We can see that there is a direct link between FGM and DN. Also between FGM and Geoff Owen (who in turn is directly linked to Frank Abbott).
I am wondering if there's any links between FGM and Bickford or Tony Jones? Perhaps via GAPA, or maybe via the church? DN was a disgraced priest. Frank Abbot was a 'parishioner' of Martin Parish (baptist minister) and lived on his family's property. Did FGF or FGM belong to either of these religious communities?

I think it's possible that FA has been eliminated (though as far as I know this news hasn't been reported anywhere else, so maybe there's a chance it's not correct?): the Daily Telegraph (William Tyrell: Police liaising with Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame, 07 Sep 2021, paywalled) said that he, and BS (washing machine repairman), and PS (neighbour recorded by Jubelin) were "among the people who the inquest heard were no longer persons of interest", and "All three men named here have been cleared of any involvement."

I haven't seen any information about church involvement by FGM and FGF, but that might be because media has hardly mentioned them at all over the entire time. It's hard to talk about them without saying something that could lead to them being identified, which I think would still be a criminal offence even now, MOO.

One of the 2014 articles about William's disappearance did say this: "It had already been a tough year for his [foster] grandmother. Her husband died in March, she had battled her own illness and relinquished much of her involvement in Kendall's community groups, only recently returning to her beloved lawn bowls." (IMO there are lots of mistakes in the article, though, so reader beware: Kendall in agony over mystery of a little boy lost, Sydney Morning Herald, 21 Sep 2014)

The closest lawn bowls greens would have been at the golf club at Kew, IMO. I haven't seen anything linking any of the other POIs to that location, but it's one more (probably-remote) possibility.

 

[stormbird]

On what we've been told, WT was only left unattended for perhaps 5 minutes. Maybe less. It was also suggested that it was unlikely he would traverse the 70 metres to approach the road. Ok. We are then left with the unlikely scenario that the 'planned' abductors came into the street some time in that 5 minutes, say 2, ran up to WT from 70 metres away (without him noticing ) grabbed hold (without him screaming) and carried him back that 70 metres in the remaining 30 secs left to dump him in the car and take off without being seen by ANYONE.

FP are lying. Are they lying to cover negligence or criminal culpability?

I honestly can't believe they came in and abducted him like that. It's a street no one goes in unless they live there (per FP in podcast where's WT"). If however FM had taken him down the road to wait for FFto appease a tantrum then if he runs away from there it's a no brainer that an unattended 4 yo left there would be picked up by someone. "Come out now William or I'm going home". Carries out the threat but by the time she returns having 'taught him a lesson' he was gone.

Perhaps he threw a tantrum she took him thinking it would appease him but when she wanted to go back home he ran and hid.

Didn't LT say something about him going to see FF? Seem to recall something along those lines

"Have you got William?" To FF. "No, why would I have him"?

Two cars following each other....a couple. Then seen by RC

I agree that an abduction scenario is unlikely and hard to believe. It might have happened (whatever happened might have been something very rare). But what I find easier to imagine is an accident that was then covered up e.g. a hit-and-run: which wouldn't have required much other than a vehicle and a driver who was determined to hide their involvement.

 

[BFew]

I agree that an abduction scenario is unlikely and hard to believe. It might have happened (whatever happened might have been something very rare). But what I find easier to imagine is an accident that was then covered up e.g. a hit-and-run: which wouldn't have required much other than a vehicle and a driver who was determined to hide their involvement.

I'd guestimate, that the likelihood of an accident, as opposed to an opportunistic abduction of William, is approx. 10 times more likely (an accident).

And that an accident that William's foster family was involved in, or was aware of, is by far more likely, than an accident that any of William's foster family were unaware of.

 

[Lady O]

There is also a link between Bill Spedding and Tony Jones, who were friends. Although we know Spedding had a solid alibi for the time WT went missing, this linkage doesn't do him and favours. Why would anyone befriend someone with 90 criminal charges, including assault on children ?. Jones also has few redeeming characteristics as evidenced by his bogan appearance and aggressive and violent persona. Did Spedding mention the washing machine job to Jones ?. IMO there are still open links in this regard. Also, when you look at the police attack on Spedding and the attempt to charge him for historical sex offences, it kind of looks like police were trying to flush out information relating to Jones that he may of passed on, even if it was accidental.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

All the latest news, views and campaigns for Sydney and NSW.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

I'm not sure Spedding and Jones were "friends" as you say. They were both from Wellington and as far as we know, the only link between the two was that Spedding once sold him a washing machine.

But you are right, there are lots of links between characters in this investigation. Owen to Jones; Jones to Bickford via GAPA; Jones to WT's Bio GM via her BFF and Jones ex wife, etc etc.

That's how it work in small communities. I don't see it as suspicious if FGM was also acquainted with some of these people as well as many others in the area who have been investigated.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I agree that an abduction scenario is unlikely and hard to believe. It might have happened (whatever happened might have been something very rare). But what I find easier to imagine is an accident that was then covered up e.g. a hit-and-run: which wouldn't have required much other than a vehicle and a driver who was determined to hide their involvement.

I'd guestimate, that the likelihood of an accident, as opposed to an opportunistic abduction of William, is approx. 10 times more likely (an accident).

And that an accident that William's foster family was involved in, or was aware of, is by far more likely, than an accident that any of William's foster family were unaware of.

It would need to be a very severe accident with immediate death. The natural reaction otherwise would be to try and revive and help survive. So must have been no chance of medical attention reversing it.

The problem with accident is to my mind the time. It takes time to deal with realisation of death and know he has no chance to even fight for him, recognizing that pre existing injuries represent a danger of abuse detection and then hide where can't be found. Photo at 9.37, heard playing between 9 and 9.30. so accident must be around 9.50am. Can you deal with it, resolve and implement a plan in total 40 mins?.....when the emotional impact is probably the most severe you've ever experienced? then to act alone before even talking to FF.......is problematic. Is he really dead? How do you know for certain? That is a short timeline.

 

[BFew]

The problem with accident is to my mind the time. It takes time to deal with realisation of death and know he has no chance to even fight for him, recognizing that pre existing injuries represent a danger of abuse detection and then hide where can't be found. Photo at 9.37, heard playing between 9 and 9.30. so accident must be around 9.50am. Can you deal with it, resolve and implement a plan in total 40 mins?.....when the emotional impact is probably the most severe you've ever experienced? then to act alone before even talking to FF.......is problematic. Is he really dead? How do you know for certain? That is a short timeline.

Again highlighting the importance of irrefutable verification (which we currently don't have) that the proof of life photo was taken at the approx. minutes/ time of day when claimed by the fosters.

 

[BFew]

Again highlighting the importance of irrefutable verification (which we currently don't have) that the proof of life photo was taken at the approx. minutes/ time of day when claimed by the fosters.

That NSW Police, NSW Crime Commission, NSW DPP, and the NSW Coroner, may or may not already have to varying degrees.