D4 Division 4 2023

[Australiannightmare13]

Getting players into vafa great! Btw you have to pay us $450 subs to play for us


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[Seemyhat]

Mate I’ve played football in both leagues for many years, been apart of 2 commitee’s and serving on one right now. I know local football like the back of my hand mate. I currently still play and I have first hand experience on how s**t the Vafa is. So yeah fair to say I probably have more experience than you .

I tip my hat to you as it's not easy running a club in the lowest division. Sounds like you have it all worked out so need for any others here to defend our comp that plays for the love of the game.

 

[Over The Post]

 

[friendofafriendsmate]

Ive always wondered how they get ex afl players to play in the VAFA in the higher divisions? do the VAFA just look the other way or are they paid as playing assitant coaches?

 

[iDon]

Ive always wondered how they get ex afl players to play in the VAFA in the higher divisions? do the VAFA just look the other way or are they paid as playing assitant coaches?

Jobs. From sponsors.

Not far from some larger clubs in the "paid" leagues with big sponsors. Heidelberg did it for years getting them jobs with their money guy.

 

[ClaudiaCarvin]

That’s a fantastic question, and your guess would be correct, theirs a good senior core of guys who have been there for years who have done it for free, but deserve some form of compensation financially I would say, it would be paying them something respectable I’d probably be paying about 5-7 blokes at the club. I would then put up a senior assistant playing role and 2 other key position roles with a bit of money. Again not paying guys crazy amounts but fair amounts that honour the player. The 5-7 do it for free now so keeping them is not a problem.

You’d be very surprised how far a little bit of respect and inclusivity goes when recruiting, a lot of guys leave because of that and not money.

So, Johnny has your club started the process of moving to SFL?

We get club people asking our club every year to move to the professional leagues. 'We'll get more sponsors'; 'we can sell grog at the games', 'we'll get more supporters coming' 'easier to recruit players' etc. etc.; we see it as a huge risk.

The lower division clubs are built on a great culture, people play because its a great place to be... that is all we have. Keep and build a great culture and players keep coming and returning; even though we charge an annual membership plus $20 a game.

Having players just coming for coin, would absolutely (might?) ruin the culture, and to be honest that is all we have as a battling suburban club!!

I think there is also a place for clubs like us, who accept anyone to come for a kick, regardless of football ability and give them a place to belong and become part of the communities we have developed. Not sure that happens at professional leagues, where players come in and out cause the rival club is going to pay them $50 bucks more per game!! bugger that.

VAFA give our clubs NOTHING; I honestly think they dont actually want us in the comp any more....all they have done this year is hand out ridiculous fines.

 

[Australiannightmare13]

I’m surprised with the drop off from St. John’s this year compared to last season.


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[Australiannightmare13]

So, Johnny has your club started the process of moving to SFL?

We get club people asking our club every year to move to the professional leagues. 'We'll get more sponsors'; 'we can sell grog at the games', 'we'll get more supporters coming' 'easier to recruit players' etc. etc.; we see it as a huge risk.

The lower division clubs are built on a great culture, people play because its a great place to be... that is all we have. Keep and build a great culture and players keep coming and returning; even though we charge an annual membership plus $20 a game.

Having players just coming for coin, would absolutely (might?) ruin the culture, and to be honest that is all we have as a battling suburban club!!

I think there is also a place for clubs like us, who accept anyone to come for a kick, regardless of football ability and give them a place to belong and become part of the communities we have developed. Not sure that happens at professional leagues, where players come in and out cause the rival club is going to pay them $50 bucks more per game!! bugger that.

VAFA give our clubs NOTHING; I honestly think they dont actually want us in the comp any more....all they have done this year is hand out ridiculous fines.

I think if you have a good president and committee you can set up a good structure in playing players with players sponsoring and keeping that culture and making it work most players don’t care about money it’s all about their mates and enjoying footy.


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[iDon]

Ugh nope I’m just a player I’ve put the idea forward that’s all. And div 4 Sfnl is the exact same. The idea is you pay your exsist ing top guys and offer money to a few people not everyone, club culture and moral is already down, so it can’t get worse. I’ve played in both and especially reserves level div 4 Vafa is way better than Sfnl and the seniors would only be a few goals off. Club doesn’t go into the Sfnl it’ll die next year or just have to play 3rds in my opinion.

Where is the money to pay $2-5k weekly wages coming from if the club is arguably struggling in Div 4 ammos? What's the incitement to get across 10-15 players because div 4 ammos and div 4 sfnl is arguably a bigger step up from what I've seen

 

[Ashtrains]

I’m surprised with the drop off from St. John’s this year compared to last season.


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Don't think they recruited as well as Box Hill and Masala. Heard that the new (now ex) senior coach brought no players with him. New coaches need to bring players with them to help the playing group get bigger and better, look how well Box Hill is doing this year.

Good to see their ressies doing well so far, have heard that there are a lot of hot heads on that team though. Have a mate that plays Box Hill ressies and all he had to say about St Johns ressies is that they always get in fights. Not a good look for the club.

 

[Mounzer11]

Where is the money to pay $2-5k weekly wages coming from if the club is arguably struggling in Div 4 ammos? What's the incitement to get across 10-15 players because div 4 ammos and div 4 sfnl is arguably a bigger step up from what I've seen

If you look at the clubs that have moved comps and succeeded (Werribee, Banyule, maybe Thomastown, Bentleigh) with the outlier being Point Cook, they have all been up in the higher grades of the VAFA. The common feature is that they all have a great junior programs which have been picked off by cashed up clubs virtually next door. South Mornington, Mt Lilydale, Eltham OC, Parkside (who are back), St Francis - have all struggled to make an impact at any level in their new comps.

You can't tell me that playing against Dandenong, Lyndale, South Yarra, Doveton etc has anymore appeal than the current D4 grade. You can't tell me that moving to Div 4 in SFNL is the panacea to your clubs fortunes.

South Melbourne and Elsternwick are prime examples of getting your house in order and things can change pretty quickly.

 

[cobra land]

Some really good arguments being made for both staying and going in here and it's great to see good conversation as opposed to other league forums that just shit can each other non stop.

One thing we can all agree on is that the VAFA don't give a stuff about the lower divisions other than to take their money and do so without a guilty conscience, they just don't get how hard it is to make a profit let alone survive.

If it wasn't for some hard working presidents, committee and volunteers most of the D4 teams would be long gone.

 

[Seemyhat]

But I can because they’re 5 minutes down the road and around the same level? Anyways I’m gonna stop talking about it now I’ve stated my arguments previously as to why it’s a good move, if you love the vafa div 4 set up then stay with it! Not forcing anyone to do anything just stating an opinion.

Aren't you an old boys club for ex students? I would have thought that's your recruitment area. Shouldn't need to pay these ex students to play together

 

[Wild Thing]

What’s the consensus amongst the playing group at St Johns? Is it similar to yours? They don’t care or do they want to stay in VAFA.

 

[Gia77]

Don't think they recruited as well as Box Hill and Masala. Heard that the new (now ex) senior coach brought no players with him. New coaches need to bring players with them to help the playing group get bigger and better, look how well Box Hill is doing this year.

Good to see their ressies doing well so far, have heard that there are a lot of hot heads on that team though. Have a mate that plays Box Hill ressies and all he had to say about St Johns ressies is that they always get in fights. Not a good look for the club.

Regarding St Johns ressies, my buddy at NB also spoke of a similar issue. As has Masala from last year where an incident occured...
One fella in particular in that side was very troublesome #48 but I noticed he hasn't played for several weeks... It's a real shame that it's continuing though even when he doesn't play and it's not what D4 ressies is about. I hope it stops before someone gets hurt. Everyone plays footy for fun. Really hope the club can speak to some their players and ask them to stop it.
Johhny Sins, you seem like a very level headed fella and are involved with the club. Has anything been done internally to try and address this issue?

 

[Gia77]

Further feedback from my previous post, I think I should note this is isolated to the reserves at St Johns and not the seniors. Seniors play in the right spirits and are up for a chat/beer after the game. Unfortunately half a dozen from the ressies mess it up for the others

 

[friendofafriendsmate]

Regarding St Johns ressies, my buddy at NB also spoke of a similar issue. As has Masala from last year where an incident occured...
One fella in particular in that side was very troublesome #48 but I noticed he hasn't played for several weeks... It's a real shame that it's continuing though even when he doesn't play and it's not what D4 ressies is about. I hope it stops before someone gets hurt. Everyone plays footy for fun. Really hope the club can speak to some their players and ask them to stop it.
Johhny Sins, you seem like a very level headed fella and are involved with the club. Has anything been done internally to try and address this issue?

"It's a real shame that it's continuing though even when he doesn't play" you saying there are blokes getting into fights in the Masala or St Johns ressies games? I can't see anything on the VAFA tribunal result pages?

 

[iDon]

Regarding St Johns ressies, my buddy at NB also spoke of a similar issue. As has Masala from last year where an incident occured...
One fella in particular in that side was very troublesome #48 but I noticed he hasn't played for several weeks... It's a real shame that it's continuing though even when he doesn't play and it's not what D4 ressies is about. I hope it stops before someone gets hurt. Everyone plays footy for fun. Really hope the club can speak to some their players and ask them to stop it.
Johhny Sins, you seem like a very level headed fella and are involved with the club. Has anything been done internally to try and address this issue?

wondering if this relates to the same individuals that were kicked out of the club, went to Masala and continued their fighting there. Have they now left Masala and back at St Johns? Saw some fighting at the AP vs St Johns ressies game, shocking behavior.

 

[Gia77]

"It's a real shame that it's continuing though even when he doesn't play" you saying there are blokes getting into fights in the Masala or St Johns ressies games? I can't see anything on the VAFA tribunal result pages?

My post relates to St Johns reserves games.
There is about 4 to 6 players that seem to play with the intention of trying to start fights or are so fired up during play they react when there's no need.
My friend explained to me a NB player tackled a St Johns player (fairly, no free kick given etc) and the tackling NB player subsequently landed on the St Johns player leg. The St Johns player reacted and pushed him over and held him to the ground and called him a "dog". Other players ran in to try diffuse the situation but 2 St Johns players began to throw jumper punches. This was not an isolated incident and it continued throughout this game.
I don't want to beat up on this entire team, I am sure the majority play within the right spirit but it's easy to see on this thread over the last few days that other clubs have had similar experiences. That cannot be denied.

I really hope it can be addressed by the club. Nobody wants to play against teams/players that behave like this and I'm sure it's not a full reflection on the club as a whole. I hope something can be done about it during the 2nd half of the year. Even for their own sake as the reserves are doing quite well, why ruin it by starting fights? Furthermore, being the reserves, what are the chances their own umpire would stand up and send these players off? I would say unlikely as they are probably friends. This behaviour should not be accepted.

I would advise other clubs to film their games if possible, just to be safe. But unsure if this will be done.

 

[iDon]

My post relates to St Johns reserves games.
There is about 4 to 6 players that seem to play with the intention of trying to start fights or are so fired up during play they react when there's no need.
My friend explained to me a NB player tackled a St Johns player (fairly, no free kick given etc) and the tackling NB player subsequently landed on the St Johns player leg. The St Johns player reacted and pushed him over and held him to the ground and called him a "dog". Other players ran in to try diffuse the situation but 2 St Johns players began to throw jumper punches. This was not an isolated incident and it continued throughout this game.
I don't want to beat up on this entire team, I am sure the majority play within the right spirit but it's easy to see on this thread over the last few days that other clubs have had similar experiences. That cannot be denied.

I really hope it can be addressed by the club. Nobody wants to play against teams/players that behave like this and I'm sure it's not a full reflection on the club as a whole. I hope something can be done about it during the 2nd half of the year. Even for their own sake as the reserves are doing quite well, why ruin it by starting fights? Furthermore, being the reserves, what are the chances their own umpire would stand up and send these players off? I would say unlikely as they are probably friends. This behaviour should not be accepted.

I would advise other clubs to film their games if possible, just to be safe. But unsure if this will be done.

Masala are filming their games against them is what I have been told.

 

[ClaudiaCarvin]

Masala are filming their games against them is what I have been told.

Wow! Haven't watched a St. Johns ressies game yet; but if true St. Johns should make a stand, stamp it out and kick them out. Its bloody D4 Ressies FFS, most players just there for the tinnies in the showers after the game....

 

[Gia77]

Masala are filming their games against them is what I have been told.

Makes sense. I hope other clubs follow suit.

Ideally St Johns committee/coaches have a chat to them

 

[Phantom Strobler]

Masala are filming their games against them is what I have been told.

Perhaps they are too short of players to suspend or sack these four players.

 

[Gia77]

Perhaps they are too short of players to suspend or sack these four players.

Perhaps you're right but if that's the case, I would suggest they should be at least spoken with and have it addressed or brought to their attention that their behavior or conduct should improve.

 

[Seemyhat]

Perhaps they are too short of players to suspend or sack these four players.

That's rubbish. Get rid of the bad eggs, improve the culture and numbers improve