Does Mick Malthouse get another contract

[thatday]

Was I the only one yesterday who was thinking he had changed his gameplan in an attempt to get around the Hawks zone thing? It was frustrating to watch, the ball spent more time in our half back line than anywhere else on the ground. We wern't taking the first option and we were allowing the Hawks to set up. Even when we had a quik run on happening, the player with the ball would stop and kick it backwards. It looked very StKilda.

But I do think MM should keep his job. Just a stats question though, has there been a coach that has had the job for 10 years and not won a flag?

 

[mdc]

Now in his ninth year as coach without a Premiership, is this sufficient time to determine a coach's worth? One thing that has bugged me a long time with MM is his game play of going wide down the flanks and wings and ingoring the corridor. If an opposing team applies enough pressure we get pushed further into the boundary line and eventually cough up the ball. At least playing the corridor a team has the option of going either left or right and a better statistical chance of keeping possession. Any decent opposition coach will see this weakness and exploit it. It is frustrating no end to see teams running it through the centre in numbers of 2, 3 and 4 players because of either foolish turnovers or tactical errors.

The gameplan that MM employs is my biggest concern as well. It can certainly make any team competitive, but we're getting more and more evidence that it just can't make a team dominant (or even consistent).

Also, our methodical approach when we have the ball will become harder and harder to execute as opposition teams get faster and fitter, which is inevitable.

For the moment, I don't think it really matters as we simply don't have the midfield to win a flag; but even if we do improve there, I don't know if Malthouse is willing to utilise it properly by going more through the corridor by hand.

 

[JAJH]

Just a stats question though, has there been a coach that has had the job for 10 years and not won a flag?

I don't know the answer to that question, but another interesting stat relates to Kevin Sheedy...he coached Essendon for 27 years, won 4 flags and runner up 3 times, which equates to a flag every 6.75 years or a grand final on average 1 in every 3 years. To me, not a bad record on current standards.

 

[Optimax]

I like to see Guy McKenna Have a Go

he would coach the side the same f=ucken way dave. watch at 3wtr time and qtr time mckenna does alot of the tacitical work, he spent all his apprenticeship under MM he will be the same bloody.

 

[didaka]

I like Mick, but it's time for some fresh thoughts.

I long for the day that we move the footy through the corridor.

 

[kevind]

I like Mick, but it's time for some fresh thoughts.

I long for the day that we move the footy through the corridor.

So do I. Watching the first quarter yesterday, I though it was painfully obvious that we were headed for the eventual result. It just makes scoring such a slow, self defeating,labour intensive exercise.

Just have a look how Ross Lyon has taken the Saints backwards. Sure, PA and Sydney won their premierships, but there is a new(and at the same time old) landscape out there. Geelong and the Hawks play the game down the corridor. It is a method that has won nearly every premiership bar about 5 or 6.

 

[goalpie]

I hope Bucks does his apprenticeship at another club 1st, we should be looking at Mark Williams and Gary O'donnell as next coach.
Mark Williams would be great ex pie captain and proven coach that likes his teams to play hard attacking brand of footy.

I dont, I would rather us get a premiershp not some other team.

 

[Smoky]

Nathan Buckley should be part of the coaching department. Look how well we did last year with Buckley practically in that role.

 

[adzarani]

Every other coach who started the decade with their current club has delivered a flag except for 1.........

2004 & 2005 were written off as "rebuilding" years. What was built?

MM is imo the most able coach in the game. But he is damaged goods. His experience in the west has left him bitter, paranoid & insecure. Anything which may pose a threat to his supreme power within the football department is not acceptable, i.e. a core group of star players such as the WC eagles had in the 90s.

He has coached brilliantly when he has wanted to win. And taught players some brutal lessons through defeat as well. But he has never built a list.....

He has been promising a top line list for nearly a decade. But has not delivered...........if he walked out next week he has left us with nothing, for all his rebuilding, all he has ever built is a "promising" list which is ultimately dependent on his coaching to be competitive.

Without him we would be a bottom 4 side, he has brilliantly engineered a situation where he is just as important to the club now as when he 1st walked through the door, and worth just as much money.

We should be moving heaven and earth to lure Leigh Matthews down from brisbane before someone else does!

 

[kevind]

Every other coach who started the decade with their current club has delivered a flag except for 1.........

2004 & 2005 were written off as "rebuilding" years. What was built?

MM is imo the most able coach in the game. But he is damaged goods. His experience in the west has left him bitter, paranoid & insecure. Anything which may pose a threat to his supreme power within the football department is not acceptable, i.e. a core group of star players such as the WC eagles had in the 90s.

He has coached brilliantly when he has wanted to win. And taught players some brutal lessons through defeat as well. But he has never built a list.....

He has been promising a top line list for nearly a decade. But has not delivered...........if he walked out next week he has left us with nothing, for all his rebuilding, all he has ever built is a "promising" list which is ultimately dependent on his coaching to be competitive.

Without him we would be a bottom 4 side, he has brilliantly engineered a situation where he is just as important to the club now as when he 1st walked through the door, and worth just as much money.

We should be moving heaven and earth to lure Leigh Matthews down from brisbane before someone else does!

You make some valid points but also some confusing ones. WE would be a bottom 4 side without MM but we should recruit LM back from Brisbane???????

I agree with you that we have a list in the bottom 4 and probably the worst midfield in the AFL. But surely the recruiting department should take the blame for this????? Given the list we have, MM has done a great job. Remember the ordinary teams he took to the 2002.2003 GFs - 12 goal inferior sides to the BL but almost pinched one.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MMs game plan and a change from the ultra defensive to a more attacking 'down thew corridor' one would suit me fine. But surely our predicament is directly related to poor player choices in drafts over the last 10 years and from this arrogany, ill founded belief that they can recruit players who can't kick and simply teach them. If I was Eddie, I would have the all the recruiting staff tatooed with 'Don't recruit anyone who is not a good kick' on their forehead

 

[dubber]

I am not sure if we need to ask for Mick's head.. But if there was a situation where we were looking for a new coach i would like to get Voss down for an interview for sure. He would make a good coach i reckon.

 

[doofdoof]

I am not sure if we need to ask for Mick's head.. But if there was a situation where we were looking for a new coach i would like to get Voss down for an interview for sure. He would make a good coach i reckon.

You must be a Carlton fan in disguise.

 

[dubber]

You must be a Carlton fan in disguise.

Yep , if it makes you feel better

 

[bradrowe#32]

He should take year by year contracts.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Id rather have MM as coach then some guy like Bailey or Lyon from the saints. We had one bad loss big deal. I am scared if we go with Bucks he might turn into a Tony shaw of a coach.

i agree with most of ur statement... except with the bucks statement...
Nathan buckely will be the next coach of collingwood.. and he will be an absolute brilliant coach- even malthouse agrees with this- buckley has every quality required for premiership coach... he is very intelligent, he is very extremely driven, he is very stern and is a former champion(ala leigh mattews).....unlike tony shaw who is a stuipid moron who was lucky enough to be captain of the 1990 team.. shaw never had the mental capacity to be coach...

 

[adzarani]

You make some valid points but also some confusing ones. WE would be a bottom 4 side without MM but we should recruit LM back from Brisbane???????

I agree with you that we have a list in the bottom 4 and probably the worst midfield in the AFL. But surely the recruiting department should take the blame for this????? Given the list we have, MM has done a great job. Remember the ordinary teams he took to the 2002.2003 GFs - 12 goal inferior sides to the BL but almost pinched one.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MMs game plan and a change from the ultra defensive to a more attacking 'down thew corridor' one would suit me fine. But surely our predicament is directly related to poor player choices in drafts over the last 10 years and from this arrogany, ill founded belief that they can recruit players who can't kick and simply teach them. If I was Eddie, I would have the all the recruiting staff tatooed with 'Don't recruit anyone who is not a good kick' on their forehead

If Matthews left Brisbane next week he has left a decent list for the new coach to work with, and for most of his time up there he would have left behind a super list of players. With us it's almost a case of how does he (MM) do it with this group of players, and its been that way for most of the decade. My point is, if we are gonna take the pain of rebuilding again for the 3rd time in 8 years let the end result be a top-line list of players, and lets have a coach who isn't afraid to let the actual players take center stage.

Odds are if nothing changes MM will be sitting around in 2010 talking about getting games into the kids, and comparing average ages of other sides to us. Guys like Maxwell, O'Brien, Goldsack, Clarke, Wood, Wellingham, Toovey, Stanley, Cox, Egan, Reid, Iles, Anthony, Dick & Cook could all disappear the same way guys like like McGough, Cole, Rowe, Davies, Fanning, Iacobucci, J.Cloke, Shackleton, Richards, Lokan, Nixon, Mullins, Walker, A.Williams, McKee etc. have disappeared. Now fair enough all clubs have players that don't make it, and a lot of them weren't up to it, but it is this continual churn of 10-12 players on and off the list that prevents us from building a list. Instead of building we seem to just reshuffle the deck every two years for basically the same result.

I agree MM has done a brilliant job, 2002/03 was testament to his tremendous coaching ability. But the fact that he is still working with average sides 5 years later, (considering we were bottom 4 in 04/05) doesn't sit too well with me. After all it was MM taking credit for the recruiting in 2002 talking up his recruitment of Clement (was bang on there!), Holland & Rintoul from the west "I'd had my eye on him for some time back in the west etc" . Many also work off the assumption that he was "personally" responsible for securing the services of that great workhorse of the modern era.... Chad Morrison.

I agree though that we can put some of it down to average draft selections, and add that our refusal to look at recycled players in recent times has hurt us also, both Sydney and Port got great results i.e flags, using recycled players to top up their stocks. In the early part of the decade when we challenged for flags, we had some nice contributions from established players i.e Molloy

In 9 years, considering the resources our club has, we have fallen short of were we should be. If it is the recruitment dept. that is at fault then fair enough. But I see MM, a man who has done so much for our club this decade, as no longer moving us forward, but holding us back. Maybe if we had an average coach, the recruiting department would be exposed, and we would be forced to look at list management, in that case you would be right.
But somehow i've got a suspicion that MM is across all aspects of the footy dept at Collingwood. And the time must come when near enough isn't good enough any more.

Cheers

 

[pieblessing]

no. There is something wrong at collingwood. We have the most money the best facilties, spend most on recruitng and still in 18 years no flag.

Mick is prbably past it. Great man great attitude, but we need to change the culture again.

We have been outcoached by Carlton and Hawks in recent weeks. Not good enough.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

He'd get a job instantly. St Kilda and Freo would chase him, while the AFL would offer him a blank check to get him up to the Gold Coast.

Malthouse is no Denis Pagan and Collingwood would be fools to let him go. It'll never happen while Eddie is President.

I agree. He wasn't stupid enough to coach the Blues.

Pagan didn't miss the finals in his time at the Roos in the 90's, neither did Malthiouse at the Eagles?

 

[MarkT]

I have no doubt whatsoever MM will get a new contract and it will probably be 2 years. I have doubts that he should but he will. IMO MM is a million miles from the worst coach going around but it is about premierships and he hasn’t delivered. How long should a coach have to win a flag? This is his 9th season.

My opinion is not based on a bad loss. I’ve said this for 3 years now.

 

[MarkT]

Although is it very early in the season, all us armchairs experts bring out the knives when we get belted. The end of the season will be a better indication if MM should stay or go.

That is true and a lot can change in a couple of months. That said, 9 seasons at the end of this one is more than enough time IMO.

Having said that, what is it that determines success of a team or a coach.

For us it has to be the premiership. That fact it isn’t is part of the cultural reason we don’t win them.

Now in his ninth year as coach without a Premiership, is this sufficient time to determine a coach's worth? One thing that has bugged me a long time with MM is his game play of going wide down the flanks and wings and ingoring the corridor.

Mo observation FWIW:
MM has a good solid finals type game plan involving pressure and accountability. It is smart in that it suits our list. MM is responsible for the list though and after 8+ years he should have the list to win a flag given the draft picks he’s had.

MM’s is tactically a follower. He took to long to get over the big bodied mids and get the quicker runners. We now create interchange records but we took a long time to enter that competition. He is taking too long to get over the possession game and go direct. We have gone wide for all of MM’s time as coach. We have lost in the ruck for all of MM’s time as coach.

 

[Stan.]

Kick him to the curb.

 

[pongo_3931]

Im shattered after this game. So the angry kid in me wants to say 'sack him!' 'Hang so and so!' Rahhhh!!!! Poo!!! Grrr !!!

Ok now that that's out of my system...

I'm feeling that there is a lack of accountability going around at the moment. This is my observation as an outsider. It could be way off as most of us, myself included, don't see behind closed doors.

I want to see some accountability though. MM dodging media bullets and tough questions needs to ease up a bit. I want to see players who don't step up pushed to the twos if only for a week- We did this, or at least MM preached it, last year and I feel it worked well. This 'hitting the piss after a game' business needs to stop too.

So maybe I'm just pouting as like many I am gutted. But something in my bones tells me we need to pull our heads in and get damn serious about what we're doing. Everyone, including MM needs to take a little more ownership. Does this mean Mick needs to have his contract on this line? Maybe it does. Maybe he needs to put it on this line by choice...

I'll no doubt peeve people off with this post, I'm not trying to have ping, nor am i an expert, but this is my gut feel. Throw some evidence out that supports or denies these claims. It'd probably make me feel better if I was proven wrong.

 

[Didakcular]

Why sack possibly the best coach this club has seen for a while? Give him at least another year! Hes done a great job getting our youngsters to the point where they are at. So what if they have had a few bad games, most young teams do. That has nothing to do with Mick's coaching ability.

 

[MarkT]

Why sack possibly the best coach this club has seen for a while?

He’s the best of the last 2. The one before the last won a flag with us and then 3 in a row at his next club. Prior to that was Rose who achieved at least as much at Collingwood as MM did and before that Hafey ditto. Hafey won flags elsewhere (4 to MM’s 2) and Rose didn’t. Let’s no exaggerate MM’s standing or his achievements. He is definitely a better coach than Tony Shaw.

Give him at least another year! Hes done a great job getting our youngsters to the point where they are at. So what if they have had a few bad games, most young teams do. That has nothing to do with Mick's coaching ability.

I sort of agree if another year means to the end of this one. If we missed the finals I'd have him out for sure.

 

[Visions]

Malthouse should not get an extension to his contract. He was and in some instances is a good coach, he has a game plan that is great when it works, but when things go off the rails he doesn't go to plan B or C or D (has the headbutting the wall mentality).

In the end our recruiting team recruit players on his final approval, and he has made some blunders big time there. In my opinion give Buckley the job as soon as he wants it. He proved in his playing days that he was a great leader, and he knows the game inside out. Most of all as on the field he wont accept second best or below par so he would show all the deadwood in the playing department the door.