DT 2011 Rucks Thread

[Tom12]

Not sure why everyone is attempting to DP links in the rucks when you potetially have Smith sitting as your 3rd ruck. I think he will provide more than adequate cover on those bye rounds or the one or two week injuries.

Anything longer than that may actually just require a trade, so not sure I am going to waste a spot in my forwards just for something that may never happen. I would prefer the DP links to my mids and forwards or mids and backs.

Smith if he gets games should be great cover. If Petrie puts up good numbers and you can play him as a forward with a DP link in the rucks, he can cover injuries rather than having to play Smith if the forward cover is better. All theoretical though.

 

[borrat]

really hoping cordy will be r/f good chance to i would imagine

 

[Walesy]

Smith if he gets games should be great cover. If Petrie puts up good numbers and you can play him as a forward with a DP link in the rucks, he can cover injuries rather than having to play Smith if the forward cover is better. All theoretical though.

This is what it comes down to. If you believe that Smith/R4 will be better cover than you forward cover- then there is no need to worry about it.

 

[timskul]

Quigley - care to elaborate on Derickx?
I've read you're in the know about the younger crop so any notes would be valued. My last mature age richmond pick went awful, good old Relton Roberts

 

[dylan123]

Sandilands isn't a definate lock for me. His foot problem toward the end of last season is a worry and he has only played all 22 games once in his career. I consider him fully priced and a bit of an injury risk.

That was part of the reasoning for me not selecting Sandilands last year, I saw he had only ever played 22 games once and had some issues towards the end of the 09 season and in 07 with his hamstring (if I remember correctly). I was also weary that he was full priced having had his best DT average ever by 14 more then his next best and I didn't really think it would get much better at all. Anyways, not starting with Sandilands was a killer, he was scoring much better then the next best ruck at the time and it cost me many trades (some stupid such as downgrading Tippett to Seaby) before I finally got him. By the time I got him it was basically just to level the playing field with the rest of the competition and not long after he started to struggle with injuries. Anyways, what I want to point out is Sandilands normally starts seasons very strongly as his body is fresh and it is only towards the end of the season we see him have problems with injuries. I now think if your going to get Sandilands it has to be at the start of the season when he is fresh and you can make the most of it (and hopefully get a decent lead on the rest of the comp that don't choose Sandilands) or not get him at all.

I wonder whether Sandilands is almost worth picking and holding onto a trade just for him and if he does go down late in the season to use that trade for a straight swap to another premium ruck to get as many points as possible in the ruck (similar type of thing that many have consider with Chapman as he scores much higher then just about every other premium forward).

Not sure why everyone is attempting to DP links in the rucks when you potetially have Smith sitting as your 3rd ruck. I think he will provide more than adequate cover on those bye rounds or the one or two week injuries.

Anything longer than that may actually just require a trade, so not sure I am going to waste a spot in my forwards just for something that may never happen. I would prefer the DP links to my mids and forwards or mids and backs.

I think many are considering it as it gives you extra security and room to adjust your side as the season goes on to help prevent a zero. If Petrie was to average 70 I think that would be fine for a forward bench player who could fill in if a forward was to get injured/have a bye/ suspended/ etc. The benefit for utilizing this DP situation is if something like your 3rd ruck is rested/dropped (like what happened with Warnock last year) and one of your starting ruck has a bye/injured/etc. There are so few ruck that play the full 22 games in a season (only 6 last season in which 4 averaged under 80) and all it takes is a little bad luck for your 3rd ruck to be rested/dropped/bye or for your other premium to have the same problem and your getting a zero. Sure, the above is unlikely but wouldn't it be better to just play it safe and utilize this DP situation to give you a better chance of not getting a zero whilst still having a strong fwd bench cover?

 

[54Dogs]

I think many are considering it as it gives you extra security and room to adjust your side as the season goes on to help prevent a zero. If Petrie was to average 70 I think that would be fine for a forward bench player who could fill in if a forward was to get injured/have a bye/ suspended/ etc. The benefit for utilizing this DP situation is if something like your 3rd ruck is rested/dropped (like what happened with Warnock last year) and one of your starting ruck has a bye/injured/etc. There are so few ruck that play the full 22 games in a season (only 6 last season in which 4 averaged under 80) and all it takes is a little bad luck for your 3rd ruck to be rested/dropped/bye or for your other premium to have the same problem and your getting a zero. Sure, the above is unlikely but wouldn't it be better to just play it safe and utilize this DP situation to give you a better chance of not getting a zero whilst still having a strong fwd bench cover?

With guys like Mzungu, Matera, Callinan, Krak all possible bench fodder in the fwds couldn't possibly pay that much for Petrie as a bench fwd.

IMO 170K is far too much cash for a bench fwd so if you were making the choice Petrie would have to pay his way from the 7 spot until upgraded. Certainly not unrealistic to consider if you have no other fwds at his price you like better. Also you would need to like another on field ruck (say Fraser or a 211 / Jolly combination) more than Petrie. It may help with DP for a couple of games but there's some issues which have been mentioned earlier about wholisitic team balance (Rd 6 in particular).

 

[borrat]

another good reason to use petrie as a dp option is as was mentioned earlier sandilands tires towards the end of each season so why not swap petrie to ruck to replace sandilands that way you can get another good forward to actually replace sandilands

 

[Walesy]

With guys like Mzungu, Matera, Callinan, Krak all possible bench fodder in the fwds couldn't possibly pay that much for Petrie as a bench fwd.

IMO 170K is far too much cash for a bench fwd so if you were making the choice Petrie would have to pay his way from the 7 spot until upgraded.

With the extra trades/cash generation available- it might be worth holding him as both F8/R3. Particularly if you can trade into a D/F link that lets him cover that as well.

 

[dylan123]

With guys like Mzungu, Matera, Callinan, Krak all possible bench fodder in the fwds couldn't possibly pay that much for Petrie as a bench fwd.

IMO 170K is far too much cash for a bench fwd so if you were making the choice Petrie would have to pay his way from the 7 spot until upgraded. Certainly not unrealistic to consider if you have no other fwds at his price you like better. Also you would need to like another on field ruck (say Fraser or a 211 / Jolly combination) more than Petrie. It may help with DP for a couple of games but there's some issues which have been mentioned earlier about wholisitic team balance (Rd 6 in particular).

But when you think about it, your not selecting Petrie just as forward bench cover, your also selecting him for ruck bench cover which could turn out very nicely dependent on how he scores.

Fwiw he is currently my 7th forward in my fanplanner team (practically thinking of him as a high first round draft pick in terms of pricing) but with the quality of some of the above names you have mentioned they may have the potential to average 80+ and end up starting over Petrie making him more of a 'cover' type player.

With the bye coming into place I have a feeling we will be relying on all 3 of our bench players to fill in at some stage and having ones who have strong job security could be even more important then ever. I also wonder how important it will to have a high scoring bench in all positions now. In the past few years we have seen the winners win with their starting 22 practically all being top 10-15 in their respective positions, I am starting to wonder whether things may now start to come down to bench players (I hope not) due to a number of reasons such as: It has been getting easier to start with more premiums in your side then previously, the bye and 4 extra trades to play with.


It's hard to judge exactly how much this bye is going to affect the game and in what ways but I am really focusing on having very strong bench cover (as all of us DT addicts always have) and hopefully towards the end of the season a few DP players in all positions so I can move and switch players as much as possible to get the best 22 playing for me every week.

 

[54Dogs]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/106641/default.aspx


NORTH Melbourne ruckman Hamish McIntosh is in danger of missing the start of the season with the club to decide whether he needs surgery on his troublesome right achilles.
McIntosh played with tendonitis for the last four weeks of 2010 and although he was limited to bike work, cross-training and boxing during the club's high altitude camp in Utah in November, he was expected to recover by this month.
The 26-year-old will sit out another month's training if North sends him in for what it deems to be a minor procedure in the coming days.

"I've had needles and physiotherapy but nothing has worked to the extent we'd hoped for. If we opt for an operation, I really just want to have it as soon as possible so I can get back playing," McIntosh told kangaroos.com.au.
"I've had a sore spot there for a number of years and it's something I've had to manage throughout my career. I received a knock on it in round 19 last year which aggravated it to the point where I was struggling to run."
McIntosh played 20 games in 2010 but faced a strong challenge from youngster Todd Goldstein to be the club's No.1 ruckman.
Goldstein will carry that mantle at least in McIntosh's absence, while key forward and part-time ruckman Drew Petrie is on track in his return from broken feet.
North confirmed on Wednesday that another of its key players, defender Nathan Grima, had undergone back surgery and would be grounded for 12 weeks.

 

[Crows88]

Very interesting to read. I don't think Petrie ever was going to struggle for selection issues but I think there was definately a chance he would be the 'sub-man' as he makes his return. However, with one less big guy available and Grima missing aswell they almost can't go without his size. I personally believe Petrie was playing his best footy at CHB, with Grima absent for the first part of the season could Drew move back there? Also makes Goldstein interesting, can score real well when given the opportunity and is a real modern-day dean cox style ruckman.

 

[54Dogs]

Very interesting to read. I don't think Petrie ever was going to struggle for selection issues but I think there was definately a chance he would be the 'sub-man' as he makes his return. However, with one less big guy available and Grima missing aswell they almost can't go without his size. I personally believe Petrie was playing his best footy at CHB, with Grima absent for the first part of the season could Drew move back there? Also makes Goldstein interesting, can score real well when given the opportunity and is a real modern-day dean cox style ruckman.

The way they're talking about Petrie's foot he won't be leaving the fwd 50 any time soon, hence Goldy's stocks just increased. Achillies are awkward injuries for time frame so Rd 1 could be Rd 6 and even then with interupted PS HMac will have reduced TOG. Hale gone so Goldy looks the key fit tall around the ground at this stage. Not exactly cheap but does have a nice developing DT game

 

[Quigley]

Quigley - care to elaborate on Derickx?
I've read you're in the know about the younger crop so any notes would be valued. My last mature age richmond pick went awful, good old Relton Roberts

Derickx is a late developer who is already 23. So a mature body who showed a lot of development in the WAFL last year. Doesn't mind mixing it up and scored okay in senior company last year. He is a competitive guy and in an AFL environment where he has a chance of starting I think he could come on quickly.

There is not a huge amount of competition for ruck spots at Richmond with Vickery and Browne both still being only 20 years old and Vickery in particular not being ready. Graham is 23 and the likely number 1 but he has been very inconsistent to date and he is hardly cemented into the spot. I actually like Graham but he has disappointed me a little to date. So all in all if there was any team where you would think a mature rookie ruck has a chance of starting its at Richmond.

With all that said I haven't heard any reports on how he is going at Richmond. He could be bombing so I will leave some training watchers to give you a more informed opinion about whether my theories are likely to hand together at all in practice.

 

[Jolldo87]

Any of our Richmond posters care to make a comment on Derickx and how he is going. At 22 he could be right to go early and he might be a little bit of a different option that could pay off.

Sorry mate, i've got absolutely no idea about him. Will look out for the name whenever i'm reading the Richmond board from now on and post anything I find.

 

[timskul]

Well that much I knew, i thought you might have some inside info or something on how Derickx is progressing coz i haven't found anything on his pre season either. But thanks for the info anyway

 

[Obeanie1]

Not much love for Big Cox on here.

Last season he wasn't even running at this stage, in 2011 reports have him at the front of the pack leading the running drills. Depending on price and that he stays fit come round 1 I can see Cox being very well priced.

I'm not going to make the mistake of having Cox and Naitanui though, definaltely need to spread the balance of the side around more.

 

[Jolldo87]

Not much love for Big Cox on here.

Last season he wasn't even running at this stage, in 2011 reports have him at the front of the pack leading the running drills. Depending on price and that he stays fit come round 1 I can see Cox being very well priced.

I'm not going to make the mistake of having Cox and Naitanui though, definaltely need to spread the balance of the side around more.

Good to hear about his fitness. People do seem to forget that last year he was the highest scoring ruckman and played all 22 games. Obviously Nic Nat is a big concern and how they will share time will be crucial in his scoring. The rucks are always the hardest positions for me to fill and I can see this year being no different.

 

[Tidus]

Not much love for Big Cox on here.

Last season he wasn't even running at this stage, in 2011 reports have him at the front of the pack leading the running drills. Depending on price and that he stays fit come round 1 I can see Cox being very well priced.

I'm not going to make the mistake of having Cox and Naitanui though, definaltely need to spread the balance of the side around more.

The reason may be because people may want to lock in Sandilands as their #1 ruckman and can't fit both Cox and Sandi in the same team (although I have seen a couple of teams with both). Personally I think Cox will be a great option this year and there's no reason (at this stage) not to select him.

 

[Buddyman]

For mine Jolly is a top 2, just my two cents though...

 

[DrTomSwift]

Worsfold said on radio that Cox has completely recovered from the injury he has been carrying for 3 years (might've been 2 wasn't really listening).

By all reports from the club and people who have attended training he's training excellently.

 

[Wheedus]

For mine Jolly is a top 2, just my two cents though...

Agree with you there. He's reliable, solid and infinitely lockable. Sandi / Jolly a very easy combination to lock in. Only problem is from a League point of view Jolly has two byes to contend with.

 

[Lakey91]

Beware of the supposed "lock and leave" rucks. Long term injuries and the fact many rucks drop 10-20ppg in output fairly regularly (seems a volatile position scoring rise) mean it is very rare that you finish the two rucks you started with.

 

[Tom12]

Beware of the supposed "lock and leave" rucks. Long term injuries and the fact many rucks drop 10-20ppg in output fairly regularly (seems a volatile position scoring rise) mean it is very rare that you finish the two rucks you started with.

You should beware lock and leave in any position shouldn't you?
Can't imagine too many coaches with an IQ would plan to lock in rucks and expect not to have to cover them. Injuries will emerge, and the 'lock and leave' concept I would assume is based around the assumption that unless injuries strike the rucks remain. To avoid upgrading/trading a 2nd midpriced ruck is an example of another option.

 

[Lakey91]

Im not talking about covering - as if you do that, you remain with the same rucks. Im talking about having to trade them - lock and leave means that - NO trades (ie they are durable enough to hold). Well, mainly the fact that it is a rare occurances that you start with two premium rucks, and it remains viable to hold them all year. Essentially, I dont think you can safely say "I have sandi and jolly, and smith and cambell on the bench, I am set for the year and wont need to worry at all about it". With durability issues, the bye/s, volatile output fluctuations (for a number of reasons), its arguably better to pick a mid pricer so you get to have a look at the rucks before locking yourself in.

I think lock and leave is only applicable to rucks (2 spots), as other positions hold too many players to make it possible. Doesn't make sense to try and apply this to any other position.

 

[chadleverington]

For mine Jolly is a top 2, just my two cents though...

I have Jolly there as well, more durable. palyed 55 games for the past 5 years, and only averaged 0.2 ppg less than sandilands over their last 10 games last year.