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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Eddie bullies Caroline Wilson, others join in
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- Nov 7, 2012
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I generally agree with most of these sentiments, however I do worry that we are - once again - making it all about the group the "victim" belongs to, rather than about the person themself, as the "attack" was intended.
Clearly it's at best naive and unbefitting of 3 men deeply entrenched within a PR heavy organisation like the AFL to not ponder the reality of how those comments would be received, particularly McGuire who has clearly learnt nothing years after suggesting Adam Goodes looked like King Kong.
However, because Caroline Wilson is a woman, does that mean she's exempt from ribbing and negativity? If it was Damien Barrett they were discussing drowning in such a violent way, some of us would still give a shit, cos it's just not on to publicly talk about violence in such a way, even as a joke. But the stuff about the black widow, if someone had said that about Barrett, everyone would have agreed, so does the context of being a woman make Caroline Wilson exempt from such vitriol? People obviously dislike her for her journalism, not because she is a woman but the context of her being a woman makes her interference more distasteful to some, who file it in their mental judgement system along with Interfering Wife, Namby Pambys, Bloody Feminists, etc.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, just woke up. I might stop.
Clearly it's at best naive and unbefitting of 3 men deeply entrenched within a PR heavy organisation like the AFL to not ponder the reality of how those comments would be received, particularly McGuire who has clearly learnt nothing years after suggesting Adam Goodes looked like King Kong.
However, because Caroline Wilson is a woman, does that mean she's exempt from ribbing and negativity? If it was Damien Barrett they were discussing drowning in such a violent way, some of us would still give a shit, cos it's just not on to publicly talk about violence in such a way, even as a joke. But the stuff about the black widow, if someone had said that about Barrett, everyone would have agreed, so does the context of being a woman make Caroline Wilson exempt from such vitriol? People obviously dislike her for her journalism, not because she is a woman but the context of her being a woman makes her interference more distasteful to some, who file it in their mental judgement system along with Interfering Wife, Namby Pambys, Bloody Feminists, etc.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, just woke up. I might stop.
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Look, I really don't want to come across as the Goddy Puritan guy here. But I gotta say, the recent spate of sexualising gifs, minimising jokes about being violent to women, invalidation of women in sport, on this board... Well, it all comes across as pretty disappointing. I'll probably get shouted down for saying that. But I just invite us all to go off for a second, and in private, think about where our heads are at in terms of respecting women here. And also how some of the posts here recently might make our fine female posters feel. I want to apologise to any of them if I have in any way perpetuated such an attitude - I can't think of any time I have, but I say it anyway to show my own commitment to women being shown respect and value here.
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it wasnt a very funny joke
- Nov 7, 2012
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Well said. I don't really enjoy all the obsessing over the bodies of female celebrities that's been happening on this forum - regarding the posting of sexy celebrity gifs- and don't think it's got much to do with football. Interesting that it's been brought up in this conversation. Still a long way to go, it seems.
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- Nov 7, 2012
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Excellent point, Plugger.
When people knock Damien Barrett, it's more his useless articles and lying they attack, but whenever Wilson gets knocked, no one talks about her writing, and Why?
Because it's good. Even when it was about us, the only thing we could say is that focussed on gossip and was intrusive and aggressive.
Do Eddie and co only hate her writing or do they hate it more because of who is writing? That other exerpt from a convo between Shaw Russell and Wilson proves: it's personal.
But why is that a surprise? Look at the environment those idiots have come from.
Hopefully when today's players are fat footy commentators they will at least be more inclusive.
- Aug 24, 2006
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Bunch of blokes talking about drowning somebody they don't like on a day designed to raise money to save lives. Delivered in a manner entirely out of touch with the duties required of people speaking in public or what society expect in general.
- Aug 24, 2006
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No. But it makes people like Eddie over sensitive to her because she is a woman. At least that is my observation. Why don't you ask yourself if you think you would be treated better, and let into the footy club world as a journalist, if you were a woman. Or if you would be subjected to offensive remarks that go to the fact you are a woman, and not what you produce. These blokes, well Eddie, has a poor track record with such things.
Edit: not meant to sound like an attack on you, just posing the proposition.
- Nov 7, 2012
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I'm not sure what you're saying, excuse me for being dumb.
I think both are true, and if the question is would female journos like Wilson prefer to be given no special treatment and also not to endure personal attacks in ways their male colleagues rarely get, then the answer is yes.
I think both are true, and if the question is would female journos like Wilson prefer to be given no special treatment and also not to endure personal attacks in ways their male colleagues rarely get, then the answer is yes.
Defacto
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 21, 2008
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its just me but i think mmm/frawley/3aw comments are much more serious than roo's post match melt
will be interesting to see if the club treats this in the same way
will be interesting to see if the club treats this in the same way
BrianSpeaking
Cancelled
It's political correctness gone mad, if it was so bad why did it take a week for someone to bring it up?
She was happy to have a laugh on 3AW, I bet she used to give her kids a smack on the bum too but that is also now seen as a no no.
She was happy to have a laugh on 3AW, I bet she used to give her kids a smack on the bum too but that is also now seen as a no no.
- Jan 10, 2011
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It was banter she was involved in on 3aw and still basically said to Shaw he went to far. It is nothing like what the MMM guys said. As for a taking a week well that has nothing to do with Caro. When was the last male media person where either looks or wanting to hurt someone was said? I cant believe some say she deserved it because of what she says in her columns. Where does that come from?
Did roo even say anything to her or was he just going off while she was there?
BrianSpeaking
Cancelled
Jason Dunstall used to threaten to belt blokes in the Triple M box every week, in fact he still does on The Bounce.
Let's also not forget all of the good Eddie does for footy, and what he did in raising shot tonne of cash for MND last week by going down the slide.
As far as Caro goes, I'll take her or leave her, I read most of her stuff, I don't have an issue with her.
- Apr 5, 2015
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I dunno man, drowning someone is pretty perverted to start with, and to physically hold someone down underwater is exactly that (a show of dominance). Dominance does not have to be sexual in nature, however there are some pretty strong links between men who observe sexual violence against women depicted in pornography and then go on to be violent at home (due to its dehumanising effect on the women involved).
As far as Emma Watson, just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's right, even on the subject of feminism. I'm pretty sure she's not regarded very highly in the feminist movement. But i can't really remember that movie anyway.
And the idea that it was a joke to start with, it doesn't sound very funny to me.. pretty shit attempt at humour.
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- Jan 10, 2011
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Eddie does some great stuff but you cant keep getting foot in mouth and then just say sorry. Happened with Goodes and now this. And Dunstall threatens to belt blokes who are in the box with him. Its banter but its hard to say what the MMM boys did being called banter with Caro and sho isn't there for a start.
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I think I agree, but the connection to the Saints is more distant in this case. Not a current player, not at or during or connected to any Saints games, Spud was there as an AFL personality, not as a part-time St Kilda coach. Certainly not to diminish the seriousness of what was said, but I wouldn't have thought the club will get involved too much except just a statement and a word in Spud's ear.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
The triple M team used to treat Frawley like the village idiot and say really cruel stuff which was apparently good natured ribbing from the boys. It used to get quite nasty and you could hear Spud not really liking it. The pack would just maul him anyway. He ended up with depression. If they did it to Crawf it might not be a story but would still be shit behaviour. I have seen pack mentality with corporate males and it's one of the reasons I decided I never wanted that life.
Don't blush, baby
- Nov 7, 2012
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It's a good measure of how far we've come as a society that joking like this publicly is taboo now. We've seen it repeatedly with comments made about women or aboriginies recently from old white men who say they understand and make the right noises but who still deal in the clichés of their fathers and grandfathers.
Running like he stole something... Looks a bit like King Kong... Black Widow... the list goes on and on.
There's no real malice in most cases it's just the language and attitude from a bygone era. Words are more precious in the age of communication, no use crying about it, it's here and we all have to navigate it.
Spud is just a footy head, but it's bizarre to think of Eddie McGuire, a man who started off as a journalist then became a media personality then became president of an enormous club that relies so heavily on perception being so clueless about this sort of gaffe. He watched Sam Newman get crucified regularly for this sort of thing and worse, but just can't help himself.
Save it for the cigar clubs fellas, you're on the radio for crying out loud! Caroline Wilson has dealt with it her whole career and is big and tough enough these days to deal with it with an eye roll but she will be made a martyr upon retirement and rightly so.
The closest Eddie will get to a position like hers is being fat and everyone making jokes about how fat he is and suggesting bullying fat people in violent ways etc. Not even close.
Running like he stole something... Looks a bit like King Kong... Black Widow... the list goes on and on.
There's no real malice in most cases it's just the language and attitude from a bygone era. Words are more precious in the age of communication, no use crying about it, it's here and we all have to navigate it.
Spud is just a footy head, but it's bizarre to think of Eddie McGuire, a man who started off as a journalist then became a media personality then became president of an enormous club that relies so heavily on perception being so clueless about this sort of gaffe. He watched Sam Newman get crucified regularly for this sort of thing and worse, but just can't help himself.
Save it for the cigar clubs fellas, you're on the radio for crying out loud! Caroline Wilson has dealt with it her whole career and is big and tough enough these days to deal with it with an eye roll but she will be made a martyr upon retirement and rightly so.
The closest Eddie will get to a position like hers is being fat and everyone making jokes about how fat he is and suggesting bullying fat people in violent ways etc. Not even close.
I see it every day at work in mining (management) jokes/banter end up going to far all the time. lots of grey area in this topic.
Diehard Saint
Brownlow Medallist
No, listen again. I doubt anyone, including Caro, would have a problem with talking about who was going to push her down the slide and get a dunking, because she has put some noses out of joint with her journalism and she accepts that as part of the job.....but they were joking about holding her under, and that adds a whole new dimension.
I'll put it on the record, I think Caro is great. She is articulate ( unlike many other journos I could mention,) and she is not scared to take on the boy's club culture of the AFL and hold people to account. She never kowtowed to, or is scared of confronting Demetriou, Mc Louglin and others and take them to task.
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TheBalls
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- Aug 26, 2013
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I am sure some people will be genuinely offended by this and if that is how they feel, well they have every right to feel that way so apologies for being condescending earlier if this is the case. I personally don’t think that this incident is degrading to women, degrading to Caro yes but it’s as much degrading to journalists as a whole as it is to women as a sex. Also don’t feel that this incident is promoting violence against women. If you can’t include someone in a joke because of their sex then that is worse.
The thing that pisses me off is the level of mock outrage accompanying the incident because people feel it’s the right way to act or they are supposed to be feeling a certain way so react to it. This fuels a massive fire, people jump on like sheep and then before Caro has even had a chance to respond on the issue and how she really feels about it ‘the people’ via social media and other outlets have already decided that this is a massive offence has taken place and the people involved deserve to be hung out to dry. Why has it taken a week for apologies to be made? Because of the few that were tuned in and heard it a smaller few started the outrage, as it gathered steam more and more jumped on which has turned into a virtual lynch mob.
Caro has forged a bloody good career by playing a bit of a pantomime villain in the media and at one time or an other has upset most clubs which is why she is an obvious choice for such a joke, gender aside, from the chairperson of an AFL club. Haven’t met many people that prior to this incident would have said they liked her, especially when she’s trying to find the dirty laundry of the club they support. When she is talking pure footy and not chasing a side story or a scandal I think she is a good writer.
To the comments that say that other journos only have their writing criticised….well Barrett is mocked on here constantly, yes about his writing, but also about his glasses and I’ve even seen comments about his wife (or questioning whether or not he has one). Frawley posted a photograph on social media recently of him alone at an AFL function to give the impression he has no friends or nobody wants to speak to him. This was laughed about on here.
Of course violence against women is unacceptable, violence against anyone is unacceptable. In this example though I’m more worried that as a populace we can be so easily manipulated into being whipped into a massive furore so easily - about something that most of us didn't even hear in the first place.
The thing that pisses me off is the level of mock outrage accompanying the incident because people feel it’s the right way to act or they are supposed to be feeling a certain way so react to it. This fuels a massive fire, people jump on like sheep and then before Caro has even had a chance to respond on the issue and how she really feels about it ‘the people’ via social media and other outlets have already decided that this is a massive offence has taken place and the people involved deserve to be hung out to dry. Why has it taken a week for apologies to be made? Because of the few that were tuned in and heard it a smaller few started the outrage, as it gathered steam more and more jumped on which has turned into a virtual lynch mob.
Caro has forged a bloody good career by playing a bit of a pantomime villain in the media and at one time or an other has upset most clubs which is why she is an obvious choice for such a joke, gender aside, from the chairperson of an AFL club. Haven’t met many people that prior to this incident would have said they liked her, especially when she’s trying to find the dirty laundry of the club they support. When she is talking pure footy and not chasing a side story or a scandal I think she is a good writer.
To the comments that say that other journos only have their writing criticised….well Barrett is mocked on here constantly, yes about his writing, but also about his glasses and I’ve even seen comments about his wife (or questioning whether or not he has one). Frawley posted a photograph on social media recently of him alone at an AFL function to give the impression he has no friends or nobody wants to speak to him. This was laughed about on here.
Of course violence against women is unacceptable, violence against anyone is unacceptable. In this example though I’m more worried that as a populace we can be so easily manipulated into being whipped into a massive furore so easily - about something that most of us didn't even hear in the first place.
- Jan 10, 2011
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Does Caro ever say she wants hold someone's head in the water though? She never mentions violence against a person and Frawley didn't mention violence against Barrett. If those guys said Caro has no friends in the media or her writing is crap it's a non story. I find it strange that some seem to justify the comments because they don't like what Caro writes. That is totally irrelevant to this imo
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