Autopsy Round 1, 2024: Geelong v St.Kilda *COLLARD, WILSON DEBUT*

[The Punter]

Butler and Higgins don't play the same position.

 

[phantom13]

Butler and Higgins don't play the same position.

Only cause Higgins doesn’t really occupy any position worth having.

He’s not kicking goals, he’s not a pressure forward, he’s not a hit up forward and he’s not a high half forward.

I just think he’s a total liability right now

 

[The Punter]

Only cause Higgins doesn’t really occupy any position worth having.

He’s not kicking goals, he’s not a pressure forward, he’s not a hit up forward and he’s not a high half forward.

I just think he’s a total liability right now

93 goals in 59 games for St Kilda over three years says otherwise, but I'm happy to concede he didn't kick a goal (or play well) in the <checks notes> one game we have played so far this season.

In 2009-2010 Milne and McQualter didn't play the same role either.

If his form stays off the boil, I'm confident he'll end up at Sandy, but one swallow does not a summer make.

 

[sammm]

Only cause Higgins doesn’t really occupy any position worth having.

He’s not kicking goals, he’s not a pressure forward, he’s not a hit up forward and he’s not a high half forward.

I just think he’s a total liability right now

after 1 match?

 

[phantom13]

Fair. I think plenty have gone past him and with new players and returning players I don’t see a spot for him.

He will retain his place though.

 

[The Cobra]

93 goals in 59 games for St Kilda over three years says otherwise, but I'm happy to concede he didn't kick a goal (or play well) in the <checks notes> one game we have played so far this season.

In 2009-2010 Milne and McQualter didn't play the same role either.

If his form stays off the boil, I'm confident he'll end up at Sandy, but one swallow does not a summer make.

Fair comment - just a memory rejig (I’d rather forget) but he was awful in the GWS final last year.

Anyway, I’m not a hater, I want to be proved wrong over the next few weeks and see him play really well. Nothing would make me happier!

 

[The Punter]

Fair. I think plenty have gone past him and with new players and returning players I don’t see a spot for him.

He will retain his place though.

Just out of curiosity, as a goal kicking non-KP forward, who has gone past him? Because it seems like the alternatives are non-proven goal kickers or midfielders.

Here's who didn't play on Saturday: Jones, Clark, Dow, Butler, Keeler, Hayes, Howard, Hastie, Schoenmaker, Webster, Allison, Van Es, Paton, Garcia, Sinclair, Campbell, Hotton, McLennan, Heath, O'Connell & Caminiti.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Its interesting that Higgins had 16 touches which was in our top 10 possessions wise, yet his missed goals are what kills his game. He has a poor ball drop for a shorter player, but generally I think his goal kicking woes are psychological. It has been an issue for some years now, the club and Jack need to get on top of it asap. If he was able to convert all his opportunities he would be a very good player if not elite.

 

[The Cobra]

It’s interesting that Higgins had 16 touches which was in our top 10 possessions wise, yet his missed goals are what kills his game. He has a poor ball drop for a shorter player, but generally I think his goal kicking woes are psychological. It has been an issue for some years now, the club and Jack need to get on top of it asap.

Agree - didn’t we have David Wheadon down last year as the goal kicking guru? Maybe he isn’t there this year?

 

[Cro19]

Higgins' brain is so absent the opposition played on as if there was no one on the mark multiple times, defensively he's a liability.

And his set shot goal kicking has fallen off a cliff the last 18 months.

 

[phantom13]

Just out of curiosity, as a goal kicking non-KP forward, who has gone past him? Because it seems like the alternatives are non-proven goal kickers or midfielders.

Here's who didn't play on Saturday: Jones, Clark, Dow, Butler, Keeler, Hayes, Howard, Hastie, Schoenmaker, Webster, Allison, Van Es, Paton, Garcia, Sinclair, Campbell, Hotton, McLennan, Heath, O'Connell & Caminiti.

Well since round 11 last year he’s kicked 15.20 in 13 games. Modern footy doesn’t really have 6 stay at home forwards anymore, you’ve gotta be able to get up and down the ground.

King, Butler and Membrey really play true forward and even Membrey gets up and down.

It’s more that structurally if he’s not kicking goals he offers absolutely nothing else in fact if he’s not kicking goals he creates more work for others to cover forward pressure.

Our forward line on the weekend has Wilson, Henry and Owens as half forwards all offered a lot more than Higgo.

Ff line was Higgins, King and Membrey. So for me Butler takes his place but as players return Hayes, Dow and Jones all have to come in and all will take spots through that half forward line for rotation.

If Higgins was taking his opportunities then you keep a goal kicker in but he’s not, his kicking is depolorable, he’s woeful defensively and he doesn’t have the tank for midfield bursts. How long do you persist with a guy averaging 1.3 goals a game with a terrible kick?

 

[tony74]

Higgins' brain is so absent the opposition played on as if there was no one on the mark multiple times, defensively he's a liability.

And his set shot goal kicking has fallen off a cliff the last 18 months.

Ironically he was there (

Agree - didn’t we have David Wheadon down last year as the goal kicking guru? Maybe he isn’t there this year?

Ironically we had him down ( for the first time this year I believe ) on Thursday

 

[saintmike65]

Unfortunately the cupboard

The only mental gymnastics going on is people trying to find a way to justify a 12 possession game from a player who was played as a full time mid.

Oh he's young, he's learning, he's not physically developed enough yet - all of which is true - and all of which support the view that he is not a full time mid as yet.

If his outputs had of come from playing as fwd/mid role (it is a thing - ask Christian Petracca who played that role for the first three years as he developed), then I'd have no complaints.

Unfortunately the cupboard is pretty bare with mids..Dow, Jones, Clark & Sinclair unavailable hurts!

 

[saint_]

We saw Higgins had a poor game on the weekend but his last quarter wasn't that bad. He made a contest in the goal square from a ball that Henry didn't kick to his advantage in which Higgins halved the contest landed to membrey and Tim converted. Another instance later in the game created separation off his opponent 70m out to then hit Max in the forward line in which Max then found Wilson to close the gap to 1 point.

I guess we all were disappointed how he initially played but he was one that helped create chances to close gap down in the last quarter.

I'd be more worried about our speed through the middle. The forwards did quite well considering the lack of entries that we supplied.

 

[The Punter]

You want speed in the middle we need less Crouch and Ross and more Dow and Jones.

 

[Fehring]

We have depth. It’s injured.

View attachment 1930819

I've come late to the party and just skimmed the Board, so apologies for double ups. Also, geez. I thought the board would be fairly chill after one game, but hell no. Don't go changing, Saints BF.

A few thoughts:

• Re the outs (above), I think the three we missed most were Dow, Webster and Paton. Dow for clearances and pace. And we needed one of Webster or Paton to be a genuine lockdown defender. I think it's a real weakness, and a damn shame that those two blokes are out at the same time.
• I was in and out of the house so didn't see the whole game, but it seemed to me that they were possibly trying to play through Nas' opponent. Despite his height, Nas seems suspect in the air, and Geelong exploited that.
• Yes, Coops did quite well down back but he's not a defender. Twice in the last quarter (I think it was him both times), he kicked a blind ball out of defence in the air (second one was the ball that was marked by Danger). When you're under pressure in defence, you just HAVE to kick it along the ground.
• The sound of the Saints supporters in the third quarter when we were surging was insane! Well done to everyone there.

 

[gringo2011]

Reckon your being very kind based on past performances. He’s very up and down but he was awful Saturday and his kicking only seems to be getting worse by the day at the moment. He has to go when butler is ready and if Collard was the sub and we’ve got others to come back he’s number 23 picked for me right now.

Well he was our highest goal scorer last year and early in the year he was looking like he was going to go top 10 in the Coleman. He is meant to have a mental block where when he misses his first goal he tends to miss all night hit his first and confidence soars. I think Gresham might have been in our top 6 goal kickers too and with Owens looking like he's struggling too that's a lot of fire power to take out.

 

[gringo2011]

Fair. I think plenty have gone past him and with new players and returning players I don’t see a spot for him.

He will retain his place though.

Who's gone past him? I reckon Membrey is probably the most like for like. Phillipou and Owens were the only other mobile half forwards. Neither are flying right now either.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Thought I would give this a day or so to digest. Read this thread and nowhere near as pessimistic as many. Yes we didn't play well. But some slightly better decision making and we pinch the whole thing.

Overall, Marshall was our best by the length of Flemington straight. Steele next, followed by a lot more daylight. Also really liked the games of Byrnes, Henry, Wilson and Members. All pretty clear best 22 moving forward.

Windy and King had 'almost' games. A few better kicks / decisions and they are the heroes in a close win.

Think many of the comments on Crouch are very harsh. Been our most consistent mid for 24 months. Absolutely has a mulligan in the bank. Yes his game wasn't great, but he is the least of our problems.

Worried about Wood. Been unexpectedly excellent for a while now, but looked scratchy in both our practice games, and was very poor Saturday. Deserves a few chances, but at his age the end can come fast.

Our back 6 didn't seem to have the same cohesion as last year. Understandable with so much change down there (Doogs, Jimmy and Sincs missing, and Battle underdone). But we need this group to come together better ASAP. JWebb is a much bigger loss than many acknowledge, and not sure Bonner and NAS can play in the same team.

Many are waaaaay too keen to abandon Pou as a primary mid for 2024 already. Yes he is not quite ready. But personally I would double down, and promise him a 6-8 week block playing the same midfield time as Saturday. Then make the assessment. The way our midfield improves is by backing kids like Pou

With a short turn around, I would be giving an absolute rocket to Hill, Wood, Ross and Higgins to respond. Owens and Sharman weren't great either. Can't carry that many two weeks in a row

 

[Ducky Tie]

Wilson is so exciting. While I think Phillipou will be a genuine star long term, I think Wilson is more likely to have consistently big impacts early on.

I'd be surprised if Wilson doesn't become close to a 20 disposal a game player pretty soon. His running capacity is amazing and he clearly has a quiet confidence.

He'll clearly be great on the outside, but I look forward to seeing him play some midfield minutes pretty soon. Player comparisons are pretty pointless, but he does have a bit of the Walsh gut running traits.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Reckon your being very kind based on past performances. He’s very up and down but he was awful Saturday and his kicking only seems to be getting worse by the day at the moment. He has to go when butler is ready and if Collard was the sub and we’ve got others to come back he’s number 23 picked for me right now.

Same problem with Snags as with most of our team which is lack of depth to keep him on his toes.

 

[gringo2011]

Wilson is so exciting. While I think Phillipou will be a genuine star long term, I think Wilson is more likely to have consistently big impacts early on.

I'd be surprised if Wilson doesn't become close to a 20 disposal a game player pretty soon. His running capacity is amazing and he clearly has a quiet confidence.

He'll clearly be great on the outside, but I look forward to seeing him play some midfield minutes pretty soon. Player comparisons are pretty pointless, but he does have a bit of the Walsh gut running traits.

Yeah, his mobility and elite tank should make him a quick to come on type. His athletic profile looks like he should be an olympian.

 

[gringo2011]

Same problem with Snags as with most of our team which is lack of depth to keep him on his toes.

I think a sports psych would help.

 

[gringo2011]

Thought I would give this a day or so to digest. Read this thread and nowhere near as pessimistic as many. Yes we didn't play well. But we were some slightly better decision making away from pinching the whole thing.

Overall, Marshall was our best by the length of Flemington straight. Steele next, followed by a lot more daylight. Also really liked the games of Byrnes, Henry, Wilson and Members. All pretty clear best 22 moving forward.

Windy and King had 'almost' games. A few better kicks / decisions and they are the heroes in a close win.

Think many of the comments on Crouch are very harsh. Been our most consistent mid for 24 months. Absolutely has a mulligan in the bank. Yes his game wasn't great, but he is the least of our problems.

Worried about Wood. Been unexpectedly excellent for a while now, but looked scratchy in both our practice games, and was very poor Saturday. Deserves a few chances, but at his age the end can come fast.

Our back 6 didnt seem to have the same cohesion as last year. Understandable with so much change down there (Doogs, Jimmy and Sincs missing, and Battle underdone. But we need this group to come together better ASAP. JWebb is a much bigger loss than many acknowledge, and not sure Bonner and NAS can play in the same team.

Many are waaaaay too keen to abandon Pou as a primary mid for 2024 already. Yes he is not quite ready. But personally I would double down and promise him a 6-8 week block playing the same midfield time as Saturday. Then make the assessment. The way our midfield improves is by backing the kids

With a short turn around, I would be giving an absolute rocket to Hill, Wood, Ross and Higgins to respond. Owens and Sharman weren't great either. Cant carry that many two weeks in a row

Hill was fantastic apart from his low possession count. It was a weirdly low tally for all players for some reason.

 

[George]

Interested to see Higgins set shot accuracy and total shots in that 93 goal span