Ellis

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richoatthedisco said:
Ellis had 3 games out of 21 with 20 or more disposals. Martin had 3 games out of 20 with less than 20. Martin has averaged 20+ touches and a goal a game since he was 18. Ellis averages 15 touches and 0.1 goals. Only an idiot or a determined contrarian would say Ellis is more consistent. Which are you? (Hint: maybe you're both.)

Ellis averaged 15.7 disposals in his first year, Conca 15.6 in his. Ellis was superfit, Conca didn't do a pre-season. Conca is an inside creator, Ellis an outside finisher. The rest of your statement is rubbish.



It's not that I want to, it's just that you consistently post drivel dressed as insight or inside knowledge. Post something intelligent and I'll be happy to agree with you.
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No dressing up of inside info or insight , I have inside info and I have insight, happy to disclose this to mods .
I form an opinion on what I see , not on what I read/ stats , computer geeks are everywhere within football.
The fact you have seen the need to use stats , assumably collected by others , to form your whole opinion probably sums up your ability to judge a player .
 
"Roar Passion" said:
No dressing up of inside info or insight , I have inside info and I have insight, happy to disclose this to mods .
I form an opinion on what I see , not on what I read/ stats , computer geeks are everywhere within football.
The fact you have seen the need to use stats , assumably collected by others , to form your whole opinion probably sums up your ability to judge a player .
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The word you are looking for is 'presumably'. I do not form my opinion based on stats - you asked for evidence to back my already-stated opinion. Short of taking you to a game and showing you what Conca does that makes him better than Ellis I'm not sure what else I could do on an internet forum.

I have read many of your opinions and it's fair to say I don't rate most of them. The fact you claimed Ellis is more consistent than Martin sums up the ridiculous nature of much of your offerings.
 
richoatthedisco said:
The word you are looking for is 'presumably'. I do not form my opinion based on stats - you asked for evidence to back my already-stated opinion. Short of taking you to a game and showing you what Conca does that makes him better than Ellis I'm not sure what else I could do on an internet forum.

I have read many of your opinions and it's fair to say I don't rate most of them. The fact you claimed Ellis is more consistent than Martin sums up the ridiculous nature of much of your offerings.
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Assumably was intended .
 

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"Roar Passion" said:
wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being every bit as valuable as Dustin and as highly regarded . Doesn't have the flair but certainly at this stage is a lot more consistant .
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Crikey,Ellis will be Valuable i agree,But after one season how can you say he,ll be just as valuable as Martin?
 
rado said:
Is it just me or is Brandon Ellis severely underrated on this board? Our pick 15 played 21 of a possible 22 games as an 18 years old, and imo outperformed many of our more experienced players. He has everything you could want in a footballer. He is an excellent kick, quality decision maker, runs all day as a result of his great work ethic, can take an overhead mark as evidenced by the last qtr of the north game, is a one touch footballer, loves the hard stuff and doesn't take any shit from the opposition. Foot speed being the only conceivable weakness in his game, however from what I have seen he is still quick enough for that not to be an issue. Watching him closely over this preseason, he is looking a lot bigger than last year, and the 181cm 81kg he is listed at on the rfc website has to be incorrect as he is now one big unit.
The question I want to know is am I the only one that thinks he is going to be a vital cog in our line up for years to come with the potential to become a midfield force and top 5 player at the club, or do people think he will more likely end up as a run of the mill hbf that every team seems to have 3 or 4 of?
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Ellis has been talked up as much as anyone on this board.
 
richoatthedisco said:
The word you are looking for is 'presumably'. I do not form my opinion based on stats - you asked for evidence to back my already-stated opinion. Short of taking you to a game and showing you what Conca does that makes him better than Ellis I'm not sure what else I could do on an internet forum.

I have read many of your opinions and it's fair to say I don't rate most of them. The fact you claimed Ellis is more consistent than Martin sums up the ridiculous nature of much of your offerings.
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In fairness to RP, I actually think this comment could be true, or at least not as clear cut as you would first think.

Ellis for me was extremely consistent all year, not much of a gap between his best and worst but the big difference for me and to keep it simple, would be as follows, Ellis's best in his first year might be for arguments sake a 6.5/10 and his worst, a 5/10.

Dusty on the other hand, his best was probably a 9/10 and his worst a 6.5/10. Consistency is probably one of Dustys biggest hurdles, its much harder to operate at the elite level every week versus and average level.

Now I am not potting Ellis, I am a fan, and he performed very well in his first year.

NB: the numbers I used above were simply an example to make my point.
 
Morro said:
In fairness to RP, I actually think this comment could be true, or at least not as clear cut as you would first think.

Ellis for me was extremely consistent all year, not much of a gap between his best and worst but the big difference for me and to keep it simple, would be as follows, Ellis's best in his first year might be for arguments sake a 6.5/10 and his worst, a 5/10.

Dusty on the other hand, his best was probably a 9/10 and his worst a 6.5/10. Consistency is probably one of Dustys biggest hurdles, its much harder to operate at the elite level every week versus and average level.

Now I am not potting Ellis, I am a fan, and he performed very well in his first year.

NB: the numbers I used above were simply an example to make my point.
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I think the numbers you've used for Ellis are pretty much on the money . I think Dustin's is a tad over inflated , but that's just my opinion .
I like that Ellis appears very focused on doing the little things right and is very predictable and reliable .
The numbers he gained in his first season , given the opportunities he had and the amount of unforced errors impressed me greatly . Could be FJ's best value for money pick .
 
tiger_of_old said:
Crikey,Ellis will be Valuable i agree,But after one season how can you say he,ll be just as valuable as Martin?
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I see Ellis as being more the Jimmy Bartell type who is ever realiable and can also lock down on a player if need be to stem the flow , whilst I see Dustin as more the Chapman/Stevie J finishing type .
 
"Roar Passion" said:
I see Ellis as being more the Jimmy Bartell type who is ever realiable and can also lock down on a player if need be to stem the flow , whilst I see Dustin as more the Chapman/Stevie J finishing type .
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Fair enough,Would be a good get if Ellis is half as good as Bartel.Martin as a Stevie j Chapman type,Hmmmmmm maybe.
 
As far as Ellis becoming an elite player, he may not be the flashy kind that is considered elite or A grade or whatever by footy fans but he is the type of well rounded team oriented workhorse that helps a team become elite which is far more important. Have a look at how the Sydney smalls play and you get an idea of why. Vlastuin will be the same.

amcre said:
7. Caddy - All hype but has delivered nothing really. I actually wanted him over Conca at the time but Conca has easily outperformed him at AFL level.

8. Heppell - Think that Heppell gets alot of cheap ball and while a good player they are a dime a dozen. Wouldn't mind him but hardly thinking his dominating so much that Conca is a poor choice.

9. Prestia - Has been good but no better or worse than Conca imo.

10. Gorringe - time will tell

11. Tom Lynch - Good player and i think will be a very good player but we got our tall with Elton.

12. Lucas Cook - no good

13 Seb Tabe - Not doing much yet.

14. Brodie Smith - Conca outperforming

The only others above this that are performing well are Atley, Darling and Smith. I actually at the time wanted Harper at 6 as well turns out we could have got him with our priority pick. But the point being outside of Darling he is keep pace with the rest of his draft class.
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As an outsider I think Heppell has been a lot better, Brodie Smith comfortably better and I'm not sure why anyone would think Conca is outperforming him and Lynch has shown he'll be a good tall forward but as a top ten pick Conca has done nothing wrong, will continue to improve and will be an important contributor in a midfield that will, in time become very hard to play against.
 
Ellis was a solid but not elite junior, certainly didn't have a stella first year in terms of players like Lids, Dusty, or Cotch in parts, but as a late first round selection going into his second season certainly hasn't put a foot wrong so far. Got plenty of games last year without dominating, has managed to stay uninjured and on the track - so has built on a good base of fitness and put some size on, and shown plenty this preseason......but too early to really say what he's really capable of yet, this year will tell us a lot more.

Conca is harder to define. An undeniably talented inside mid at a junior level (if you haven't seen his U18 highlights go check em out), hasn't had a full pre-season (still hasn't), has been too small to play his natural game (so far, but starting to look part now), has been played out of position in the backline for most of his senior career (for his own long term benefit but still hasn't given him enough of an opp to show his best at a senior level), hasn't had a chance to show the benefit of being a Choco 'project player' (which could amount to anything), and for those saying we paid overs for him -take all of the above into account and remember he's only a third year player ffs! Yep dud, delist....

I personally think Ellis will be a 100+ game solid depth player, but Conca could be a 200+ game genuine superstar inside mid for us.
 
I see Ellis ending up like Grigg but winning a but more of his own footy.

Can't wait to see him finally put on a wing. He runs all day, links well, has an awkward looking kick that always ends up finding a target, no penetration in his kicking but puts it to advantage very very well which is why he (and Grigg) hits a lot of targets.

Very Grigg like I reckon. And I'm a massive wrap for Grigg. He was awesome last year.
 

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Think the Griggs comparison is pretty good. Griggs started on a half back flank at the blues as well but always had the running power. Ellis's kicking is a strength. Not a laser like Deledio but super accurate and good distance. Think the kid has the character to be a 200 gamer and just enough tools to graft it out. If his running patterns can improve to a Grigg type level we will have a very solid player. Think we are really building a depth in the good solid player category. Ellis, Conca, Batchelor, Vlastuin, Morris. The kinds of guys you know are going to bring professionalism week in week out.
 
"Roar Passion" said:
I have seen no evidence what so ever that Reece Conca has a unique ability to extract from the bottom of the pack and that includes Pre RFC days .
His asset has always been to pick the ball up in space at a high pace .
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Read what i said. I said he has the hunger to get to the bottom of the pack not that he is big enough and strong enough YET to be an elite extractor which imo will come. I dont see Ellis this type of player. This is just my view and just bc you have a different view doesn't make either of us right/wrong.
 
Far out- I cannot believe people are saying Conca was not worth a top 10 selection. There is NOTHING I have seen from Reecy to date that makes me think he will not be a very very good midfielder. Just watched the Hawthorn game from last year on Fox Footy and some of his decision making was absolutely top shelf, as was the execution of the kick. And he is so hard at the footy as well.

Not at all concerned about Reece not becoming a very very solid contributor to our Midfield- will be a star IMO. My only worry is that the lure of WA may become an issue. When does he next come out of contract?
 
He'll be a solid player. Runs hard, competitive, good kick. Not great below his knees and lacks a little X-factor.

Conca has a lot more outstanding attributes than Ellis and has certainly shown a lot more glimpses of brilliance, whereas Ellis is more of your solid contributor type.
 
theflea said:
Read what i said. I said he has the hunger to get to the bottom of the pack not that he is big enough and strong enough YET to be an elite extractor which imo will come. I dont see Ellis this type of player. This is just my view and just bc you have a different view doesn't make either of us right/wrong.
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I wasn't suggesting you said anything or that you were right or wrong , was simply giving my opinion .
Think you might have jumped a tad early there flea . ;) :thumbsu:
 
Madison said:
I see Ellis ending up like Grigg but winning a but more of his own footy.

Can't wait to see him finally put on a wing. He runs all day, links well, has an awkward looking kick that always ends up finding a target, no penetration in his kicking but puts it to advantage very very well which is why he (and Grigg) hits a lot of targets.

Very Grigg like I reckon. And I'm a massive wrap for Grigg. He was awesome last year.
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Agree Mado and think many have underated the value if a good wingman and how hard the position is in modern footy .
 
Sin City said:
As far as Ellis becoming an elite player, he may not be the flashy kind that is considered elite or A grade or whatever by footy fans but he is the type of well rounded team oriented workhorse that helps a team become elite which is far more important. Have a look at how the Sydney smalls play and you get an idea of why. Vlastuin will be the same.



As an outsider I think Heppell has been a lot better, Brodie Smith comfortably better and I'm not sure why anyone would think Conca is outperforming him and Lynch has shown he'll be a good tall forward but as a top ten pick Conca has done nothing wrong, will continue to improve and will be an important contributor in a midfield that will, in time become very hard to play against.
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maybe i didn't see enough of smith but haven't seen him do anything amazing. I think Heppell has outperformed in his role but I can't see him ever being inside outside which is what we need. We have plenty of outside HBF types.
 

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