News Emma Grant files lawsuit against Collingwood over concussion

[stormskye]

I find it very hard to believe that the club would attempt to overrule a doctor on a matter of concussion. It’s an interesting situation.

I believe most elite or sub-elite sporting organizations these days, would use something like the Buffalo Concussion Treadmill Test to guide return to sport decisions post concussion, it at least gives some sort of objective data to work from.

https://cdn-links.lww.com/permalink/jsm/a/jsm_2020_01_28_haider_19-313_sdc1.pdf

And therein lies the issue mate. I don’t believe the club would risk anything. No disrespect, but even if it were darcy Moore 1 week before the GF we’d be ensure a duty of care was met.

My biggest concern is if something like this was successful, and set a precedent what the ramifications would be. If a player is concussed, then if this case got up, clubs would be more likely to basically say sorry, no more games, we can’t risk it. How many concussions has paddy McCartin had? If he gets another, is it the swans fault? End of the day, medical professions such as yourself can only offer advice. Theres inherent risk in any physical sport, especially afl that a player MUST take some ownership of. I don’t want to see us go down the litigious culture of America.

I’ll back our medical department in. It’s a contact sport. Nobody forced her to play.

 

[sr36]

Agree to an extent with what you're saying brother. A proper football organisation would have to go with the doctors analysis.

"Up to you" would be her problem but doubting it is like this.

Doctor says no means no.

Doctor says cleared and than up to the player.

You've got more faith in the industry than me. When the rule first came in, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the club just waited for the time to pass and didn't get the player to be cleared by a doctor before expecting them back out there.

But it's all a guess, in this case

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You've got more faith in the industry than me. When the rule first came in, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the club just waited for the time to pass and didn't get the player to be cleared by a doctor before expecting them back out there.

But it's all a guess, in this case

Exactly! And your guess is no more accurate at this stage than anyone else's! I don't understand why anyone bothers posting these accounts and stories if people aren't free to comment on them according to their belief in what the club may or may not be doing to protect or not protect its players. Having an opinion shouldn't involve offering up your body for a cyber crucifixion.

 

[sr36]

Exactly! And your guess is no more accurate at this stage than anyone else's! I don't understand why anyone bothers posting these accounts and stories if people aren't free to comment on them according to their belief in what the club may or may not be doing to protect or not protect its players. Having an opinion shouldn't involve offering up your body for a cyber crucifixion.

That all sounds like an opinion, you masochist.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Exactly! And your guess is no more accurate at this stage than anyone else's! I don't understand why anyone bothers posting these accounts and stories if people aren't free to comment on them according to their belief in what the club may or may not be doing to protect or not protect its players. Having an opinion shouldn't involve offering up your body for a cyber crucifixion.

Well said brother TGG

 

[noideaatall]

Did you play footy growing up?

Yes, school boy footy and a bit of social footy in my twenties. I'm not sure why this is relevant. I went back when I was 40 and played a couple of games. Too old, unfit and slow. I got laid out something proper and bear the injury still. I don't have a problem with players accepting risk. Concussion though, turns out to have serious long term impacts that historically weren't recognised. I think it is important that this risk is recognised and, like so many other aspects of life, often this importance is only emphasised by the courts.

Being punch drunk has been a known in boxing for a very very very long time.

And yet here we are not only is the sport still massive around the globe but an even more brutal sport MMA has usurped it and many people still willingly partake in it.

These fighters do it because they love teh sport, love fame, love power of being an Alpha type, or love Money. They do so willingly despite the KNOWN risks.

People using Gladiator references are taking the piss, they were slaves they had no choice! and are incomparable and it's disengenous to use it as such.


At some point the onus needs to be on the individual for taking the risk, not obsolve the sport for anything reckless or deliberate but a line needs to be drawn somewhere imo AFL have already reached that line. The only step that they could do is offer a fund for medical treatments to ex players who suffer from injury.

I get your point. I'm not sure about the onus on the individual. What we need to encourage is an atmosphere amongst individuals and the medicos of minimising the risk. An individual shouldn't take responsibility for the risk when medical opinion suggests they are ok. If the medical opinion states they are ok, and that is according to current knowledge then sure. Can;t expect the medical staff to be responsibility for what they don't know, nor can you expect a player too. That is very different from players accepting a risk that is not clear to them but known to the medicos.

I have no idea whether Emma's court case is justified or not. I do believe the starting point is to give her the opportunity to prove it, rather than conclude out of hand she is wrong.

 

[JB1975]

Exactly! And your guess is no more accurate at this stage than anyone else's! I don't understand why anyone bothers posting these accounts and stories if people aren't free to comment on them according to their belief in what the club may or may not be doing to protect or not protect its players. Having an opinion shouldn't involve offering up your body for a cyber crucifixion.

I for one pledge to do my utmost to not disagree with an opinion ever again.

I can see now that we should actively concur with one another, or otherwise hold our peace.

All opinions will now be regarded as equally valid, and to suggest otherwise is an arrogance which can only result in hurt feelings, and the UN Declaration of Human Rights is quite clear that this is wrong.

I have been wrong.

 

[Fat Jesus]

I for one pledge to do my utmost to not disagree with an opinion ever again.

I can see now that we should actively concur with one another, or otherwise hold our peace.

All opinions will now be regarded as equally valid, and to suggest otherwise is an arrogance which can only result in hurt feelings, and the UN Declaration of Human Rights is quite clear that this is wrong.

I have been wrong.

Not sure if serious
I give you the benefit of the doubt.
Forget about it. My feelings weren't hurt but I dislike arguing with fellow supporters.
If I'm wrong with Emma I don't mind saying I was wrong.
Just need more info on what happened.

 

[sr36]

I for one pledge to do my utmost to not disagree with an opinion ever again.

I can see now that we should actively concur with one another, or otherwise hold our peace.

All opinions will now be regarded as equally valid, and to suggest otherwise is an arrogance which can only result in hurt feelings, and the UN Declaration of Human Rights is quite clear that this is wrong.

I have been wrong.

I find that disagreeable, as I think we should disagree when we disagree. Your post is a disagreeable attempt to agree.

 

[JB1975]

I find that disagreeable, as I think we should disagree when we disagree. Your post is a disagreeable attempt to agree.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Quicky]

I find that disagreeable, as I think we should disagree when we disagree. Your post is a disagreeable attempt to agree.

I find all the personal shots diagreeable. The ganging up (both sides) is pretty ordinary too. Lord of the Flies vibes in here.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I find all the personal shots diagreeable. The ganging up (both sides) is pretty ordinary too. Lord of the Flies vibes in here.

Agreed. It's not an environment in which any but the most verbally gifted and thick skinned would be prepared to present an opinion.

 

[manicpie]

Would allowing someone to train 3 weeks after a concussion have any adverse effects on a person? If so, the AFL is in for so many law suits that it might as well shut up shop now. If I was playing in a competition where I wasn't earning enough money I reckon I would go down down the suing path also

 

[JB1975]

I find all the personal shots diagreeable. The ganging up (both sides) is pretty ordinary too. Lord of the Flies vibes in here.

It felt a bit inevitable. A thread to discuss an AFLW player making claims against the club was an invitation to people who like a chance to kick the AFLW.

And then idle d***heads like me feel the need to respond, and on it goes.

Another problem is that little is known of Grant's claims, which meant that people resorted to pot shots instead of discussing facts.

I like you, Quick. Sorry to be disagreeable to you. But I've since become a better man.

 

[Quicky]

It felt a bit inevitable. A thread to discuss an AFLW player making claims against the club was an invitation to people who like a chance to kick the AFLW.

And then idle d***heads like me feel the need to respond, and on it goes.

Another problem is that little is known of Grant's claims, which meant that people resorted to pot shots instead of discussing facts.

I like you, Quick. Sorry to be disagreeable to you. But I've since become a better man.

Colour me naive but I was hoping it would lead to some discussion on the issue of concussion in the AFL. That said I didn't do anything in the OP to steer it that way so serves me right for being lazy.

I'm growing tired of the pack mentality/factional posting. It has nothing to do with opinions (my views are similar to yours on this) more that it degenerates into personal attacks. Theres no respect shown, no attempt at understanding (either side) and it isn't good.

 

[JB1975]

Colour me naive but I was hoping it would lead to some discussion on the issue of concussion in the AFL. That said I didn't do anything in the OP to steer it that way so serves me right for being lazy.

I'm growing tired of the pack mentality/factional posting. It has nothing to do with opinions (my views are similar to yours on this) more that it degenerates into personal attacks. Theres no respect shown, no attempt at understanding (either side) and it isn't good.

What you say is true.

People may recall that I was once a prince of the board, a man of virtue, keeping clear of strife and devoting my considerable moral and intellectual authority to the cause of rational discussion.

Then one day I woke up and I had become just another pig rolling in the s***.

Not sure how it happened, but I'm working on it Quick.

 

[The Majestic]

So...trying to get this a little bit more onto the topic at hand after it went down a vastly different route....

At the end of this whole thing, I'd wonder if the AFL would consider looking more into their concussion policy and see if there's room for changes and all. Maybe there's something that can be a positive out of all of this, regardless of the result of the lawsuit going forward.

 

[jmac70]

Colour me naive but I was hoping it would lead to some discussion on the issue of concussion in the AFL. That said I didn't do anything in the OP to steer it that way so serves me right for being lazy.

I'm growing tired of the pack mentality/factional posting. It has nothing to do with opinions (my views are similar to yours on this) more that it degenerates into personal attacks. Theres no respect shown, no attempt at understanding (either side) and it isn't good.

I still love you Q.
Best mod ever.

 

[Quicky]

So...trying to get this a little bit more onto the topic at hand after it went down a vastly different route....

At the end of this whole thing, I'd wonder if the AFL would consider looking more into their concussion policy and see if there's room for changes and all. Maybe there's something that can be a positive out of all of this, regardless of the result of the lawsuit going forward.

I think it's inevitable. There's a big focus on concussion and a lot of research into it. As understanding improves policy will adapt and change.

I wonder if it presents an existential threat to the sport itself. As more is understood about concussions will parents keep supporting their kids playing the sport? There is only so much that can be done to regulate head clashes out of the game. Only so much medical care that can be given.

It's fundamentally a rough sport with these risks. I wonder if Fat Jesus has the right of it in that these are risks players are going to need to decide they accept. Or not.

 

[Quicky]

The Concussion Crisis in Australian Rules Football (Published 2019)

It’s a brutal game, and retired players are suffering the consequences of hits to the head. But the league there is following a familiar playbook, one used by the N.F.L.

www.nytimes.com

 

[The Majestic]

I think it's inevitable. There's a big focus on concussion and a lot of research into it. As understanding improves policy will adapt and change.

I wonder if it presents an existential threat to the sport itself. As more is understood about concussions will parents keep supporting their kids playing the sport? There is only so much that can be done to regulate head clashes out of the game. Only so much medical care that can be given.

It's fundamentally a rough sport with these risks. I wonder if Fat Jesus has the right of it in that these are risks players are going to need to decide they accept. Or not.

I was wondering the same with American football as well, as more is known about the concussions and what happens. I suppose what may help is how we understand the affects and how they're treated going forward. I'd think people will still accept the risks, but the question they'd have is how the club(s) and league will treat the concussions and the care they're given.

Though I think some parents may prevent their kids from playing some of these contact sports.

 

[Fat Jesus]

I think it's inevitable. There's a big focus on concussion and a lot of research into it. As understanding improves policy will adapt and change.

I wonder if it presents an existential threat to the sport itself. As more is understood about concussions will parents keep supporting their kids playing the sport? There is only so much that can be done to regulate head clashes out of the game. Only so much medical care that can be given.

It's fundamentally a rough sport with these risks. I wonder if Fat Jesus has the right of it in that these are risks players are going to need to decide they accept. Or not.

Is this a trick question
It's a rough sport and you have to except it how it is. As long as free medical care is provided you can't expect anything else.
Emma had a few weeks off. Her supreme court case reasoning is "she wasn't afforded enough time off"
She had a say in this.
She could have said "I'm not ready to go "
Dunno brother. Wishing her the best either way.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Is this a trick question
It's a rough sport and you have to except it how it is. As long as free medical care is provided you can't expect anything else.
Emma had a few weeks off. Her supreme court case reasoning is "she wasn't afforded enough time off"
She had a say in this.
She could have said "I'm not ready to go "
Dunno brother. Wishing her the best either way.

When you say “Supreme Court case” it makes it harder to trust the veracity of the rest of your points. It’s a civil case lodged at a County Court.

We don’t know the full extent of Emma’s case; maybe she didn’t receive comprehensive care post-concussion. I don’t know why people would jump to conclusions prematurely.

 

[Fat Jesus]

When you say “Supreme Court case” it makes it harder to trust the veracity of the rest of your points. It’s a civil case lodged at a County Court.

We don’t know the full extent of Emma’s case; maybe she didn’t receive comprehensive care post-concussion. I don’t know why people would jump to conclusions prematurely.

Yeah my bad.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I think it's inevitable. There's a big focus on concussion and a lot of research into it. As understanding improves policy will adapt and change.

I wonder if it presents an existential threat to the sport itself. As more is understood about concussions will parents keep supporting their kids playing the sport? There is only so much that can be done to regulate head clashes out of the game. Only so much medical care that can be given.

It's fundamentally a rough sport with these risks. I wonder if Fat Jesus has the right of it in that these are risks players are going to need to decide they accept. Or not.

I’m not sure players accepting risk in any way mitigates the potential for negligence by the club. In my view, I’m thinking this will be an interesting test case against the concussion protocols at the club and the actual implementation of them. Don’t want any player getting career ending injury and I’d like to be confident the club is doing and has done the best they can in the circumstances of the relevant times. I wish Grant all the very best with her life.