equalisation fund - suck on it Joffa

[Joffaboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: equalisation fund - suck on it Joffa

Originally posted by MarkT
FFS Joffa, the Saints should be contributing to equalisation in a big way.

We would if clubs like Collingwood didn't get such preferential treatment in the draw and we got the cream like they have been gifted

They have a large supporer base and they have a huge local area full of businesses. They have no cash because they have been so poorly run for so long.

Very true, but they have just announced a 2.5 mill turnaround. So what is the excuse for the rigged draw now?

They have an opportunity to do something for themselves now with a good squad and finally an attempt to sqare off against their goasts. Finally the Siants have admitted their failings and are tyring to do something about them.

Again all true so whats your point?

If they get on with that instead of going down the excuses and hard done by line they will get real momentum on and off the field. Unlike some other clubs they have the numbers to really make a leap from perrenial strugglers to a club with a big future short and long term. Don't complain about the train get the F**k on it.

Again, this is the whole point. Why should teams on the slide like Richmond, Collingwood, Essendion, and Carlton, be given this largesse, while the future Vic powerhouse in St.Kilda be disadvantaged because of blantant cheating and favouritism.

And BTW my sig is not a troll. I dont call Collingwood filthy chokers, Carlton cheating bastards etc etc. I merely state the case of the advantaged fours high hypocricy in whinging about teams like brisbane and Sydney, when they leach of the rest of the Melbourne based teams.

Cheers. Think you have changed my view on your evil liaison with the AFL yet Mark?

Dont think so.

 

[Navy Master]

Advantaged... Is that advantaged like how you got given a garunteed Grand Final berth (Only Grand Final because cornflakes is in charge) by a system that rewards incompetence on a grand scale

You get 4 home games (1 on a public holiday) against four of the biggest 5 clubs in the state, why do you keep complaining??

 

[MarkT]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: equalisation fund - suck on it Joffa

Originally posted by Joffaboy
We would if clubs like Collingwood didn't get such preferential treatment in the draw and we got the cream like they have been gifted

C'mon Joffa, what on Earth could you base that statement on? Surely not any of what has gone before? When did you make more than the average (which would make you a "contributor").

As for gifted, well that's one slant on being used to fund the shootin' match. We are gifted games against the rivals we have battled in front of droves for over 100 years because our members and supporters and theirs get off their arses and watch every time. Does your Boss gift you money every week or month? Must be a nice generous bloke.

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Very true, but they have just announced a 2.5 mill turnaround. So what is the excuse for the rigged draw now?

The excuse for the rigged draw is more teams than the time frame can accomodate. The excuse for the blockbusters - the Vic and the non Vic ones - is bums on seats and TV demands. That can change but not with a one year turnaround from oblivion to mediocrity. You need a bit more to draw your cynical bretheran from thier non football attending inherited lifestyles I think.

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Again all true so whats your point?

Concentrate on the real solution not the unsustainable quick fix. Get your president to make your own way for ever. You and your club are simply waisting breath and energy. Even if you were to get your way it would be acedemic. It would do bugger all for your finances. Win games, make the finals for a decade, win a flag and you'll have a huge bandwagon. Keep it up and you'll have a huge club. I can't believe the potential that the Saints still have after all they have done to their own. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Again, this is the whole point. Why should teams on the slide like Richmond, Collingwood, Essendion, and Carlton, be given this largesse, while the future Vic powerhouse in St.Kilda be disadvantaged because of blantant cheating and favouritism.

Because it's what the people want as evidenced by their bums on seats and on couches and that funds the sides who can't slide further.

Originally posted by Joffaboy
And BTW my sig is not a troll. I dont call Collingwood filthy chokers, Carlton cheating bastards etc etc. I merely state the case of the advantaged fours high hypocricy in whinging about teams like brisbane and Sydney, when they leach of the rest of the Melbourne based teams.

Didn't hear any of that directed at the Saints by Morgoth and yet his comments are a troll? I'm starting see how you can view equalisation that favors your club as so far short of the welfare mark. I used to think it was a case of welfare dependancy feeding welfare dependancy but maybe it's just a problem putting all the slot A's into flap B's.

You can see a world of difference to what Collingwood earn and what St.Kilda are given and yet you see no difference between rules to make some clubs more successful for marketing purposes and draws to maximise revenue by marketing activities.

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Cheers. Think you have changed my view on your evil liaison with the AFL yet Mark?

Dont think so.

Rome and a St.Kilda premiership were not built in a day.

In truth I suspect you understand more than you care to say. Then again what would I know. I'm a racist, jobless, toothless, hairless, oneshoeless steriotypical Victoria Park yobbo and the AFL loves me because of my spending power. How charitable of them.

Actually, we meet at night and discuss how we can steal from the poor and give to the rich. Ever wondered why we waited until Carlton went broke before we stole nearly a mil from them and until they had no decent players before we stole their draft choices? No point stealing from the rich is there. That's been done already.

 

[Navy Master]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: equalisation fund - suck on it Joffa

Originally posted by MarkT
Ever wondered why we waited until Carlton went broke before we stole nearly a mil from them and until they had no decent players before we stole their draft choices? No point stealing from the rich is there. That's been done already.

Never in danger of going broke, our finances were merely strained..

But your points are valid... Brisbane, Sydney, Fremantle, Richmond, St Kilda, Melbourne, North, Western, Geelong are the real welfare receievers....

 

[Gunners Man]

I find this post hilarious actually.

How many of you guys go to neutral games? I would reckon a few.

If we had a super league of 6 teams:

About 50% of the AFL members would go, some of the MCC ones as well

20 games season where everyone plays each other 4 times (is my maths right?)

Would anyone watch?? No. Where is Rugby League now post superleague, struggling more than ever


It's not about welfare. It's about having a viable competition where the smallest clubs have a chnace to win things like the so called big clubs. For the record only the Roos and Bulldogs have actually received welfare ie the VFL Park money. The AFL is making sure they use it wisely and not spending big on unnecessary waste. Fine for me.

It is better for the competition as a whole that the Pies play the Bombers on Anzac day, but the WHOLE competition should benefit.

It makes me laugh that Hawthorn are now a power club but 7 years ago nearly merged. Shows your standing can change and is sustainable.

Why are we looking at numbers for last year only. Does anyone have the numbers for the last 5 years?

As for TV, ratings etc a 15 in Sydney is probably worth more than a 50 in Adelaide. SA people are right behind their clubs as are WA people but in the end the competition is funded by Sydney and Melbourne.

Brisbane is very important to the future, especially as people continue to migrate north and bring their love for football and develop youngsters like Riewoldt etc.

So yes the today's big clubs provide more money, but today's small clubs can be tomorrow's big clubs.....

 

[morgoth]

ha ha ha

Joffa

Let me spell it out for you; we end up $250,000 worse off due to equalisation, you make $125,000. Get rid of it we will be better off, you will be worse off. To me that means you are receiving Collingwood money.

You can deny it all you like but the figures are there for all to see. Some times you just have to admit you were wrong and kill the argument and stop making yourself look more stupid than you are.

As for you Grayham, whatever, all I know is that you have put your hand out for $1.5M, not even the Aints have done that. Oh yeah I have a friend who runs an event company, Rugby Union boxes have dropped from $120,000 to $30,000 for the World Cup so the money aint going there either. Tell us another porky pie **** Colless.

 

[grayham]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: nah

Originally posted by MarkT
I doubt any media expert has done any study, including yours. Nevertheless:
Eddie McCollingwood.

Please provide proof (links will do).

And Eddie is no media expert. He's just the new Ray Martin.

The quotes I've seen of Eddie (post coming to Sydney earlier in the year and "showing us how its done"... well showing 400 people how its done) have all been very supportive of Sydney in the AFL comp nad the enormous value Sydney provides. Its been refreshing to see eddie with a brown tongue and not from buckley.

BTW Mark, in case you didnt realise, you are no media expert. You're definately not a football expert as your cash donation to bigfooty in the next few weeks will testify.

 

[grayham]

Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by morgoth
Joffa

Let me spell it out for you; we end up $250,000 worse off due to equalisation, you make $125,000. Get rid of it we will be better off, you will be worse off. To me that means you are receiving Collingwood money.

You can deny it all you like but the figures are there for all to see. Some times you just have to admit you were wrong and kill the argument and stop making yourself look more stupid than you are.

As for you Grayham, whatever, all I know is that you have put your hand out for $1.5M, not even the Aints have done that. Oh yeah I have a friend who runs an event company, Rugby Union boxes have dropped from $120,000 to $30,000 for the World Cup so the money aint going there either. Tell us another porky pie **** Colless.

Please provide a name of your "source", an email address for verification, and the name of his event company, to verfity that stupid statement.

That sort of statement makes you sound like a stupid version of caro.

 

[grayham]

Originally posted by Ausgard
Collingwood contributes money

North Melbourne contributes spirit, passion, and a never say die attitude.

Even-Stevens I say

I'd put North ahead. They play entertaining footy, and thats what its all about.

 

[tigerT]

can some1 plse do the correct thing and post the figures for the past 5 yrs, then kindly stick ur tiger criticism up ur clackas we have more than given our fair share, there have been yrs where us and collingwood were number 1 and 2 contributors

 

[morgoth]

gray balls

Shoot me an e-mail address and I will get you a quote. Person who told me has 25,000 hits a month so they are no amateur. I used to be her boss, shocking as that may sound.

 

[Falchoon]

Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by morgoth
Joffa

Let me spell it out for you; we end up $250,000 worse off due to equalisation, you make $125,000. Get rid of it we will be better off, you will be worse off. To me that means you are receiving Collingwood money.

Swap draws then.

The net gains of the AFL largesse in fixturing and equalisation by far favour Collingwood. Not to mention the supporters of tomorrow. When was the last time you saw the Saints on free to air tv? Where will the new supporters come from?

The extra 20000 on Anzac day would make the $250k up in one go, hopefully we'll enjoy our 1 and only go on primetime tv against Essendon in 2 weeks, I'm sure the sponsors will.

 

[dave_27]

Originally posted by tigerT
we have more than given our fair share, there have been yrs where us and collingwood were number 1 and 2 contributors

Hasnt happened for a long, long time.

 

[grayham]

Re: gray balls

Originally posted by morgoth
Shoot me an e-mail address and I will get you a quote. Person who told me has 25,000 hits a month so they are no amateur. I used to be her boss, shocking as that may sound.

Just PM me. Thats what PM is for.

 

[Portia]

Re: Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by Falchoon
The extra 20000 on Anzac day would make the $250k up in one go

Uh, there's only $1.50 per ticket. So 20,000 extra for one game onto St Kilda's total would only take $30,000 off, and even that is only if you happened to be the host in Anzac Day this year.

 

[Falchoon]

Re: Re: Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by Porthos
Uh, there's only $1.50 per ticket. So 20,000 extra for one game onto St Kilda's total would only take $30,000 off, and even that is only if you happened to be the host in Anzac Day this year.

I think you missed me entirely there. Collingwood pay a net $250k in to the equalisation fund. Propping up other clubs apparently. By having a date provided by the AFL where a guaranteed extra 20000 will turn up has seen the swing catch and overtake the roundabout. 20000 x $14.

ie Joffas welfare recipient line.

 

[morgoth]

No

You are missing the point of the challenge that was given to me by the esteemed Joffa. Proof that one, yes one Collignwood dollar was used for St Kilda's benefit. It quite clearly is. Has nothing to do with rights or wrongs, just proof.

Grayballs I do not use PM. I will see what I can dig up for you.

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by grayham
That sort of statement makes you sound like a stupid version of caro.

Can a creature be so stupid and still exist?

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: No

Originally posted by morgoth
You are missing the point of the challenge that was given to me by the esteemed Joffa. Proof that one, yes one Collignwood dollar was used for St Kilda's benefit. It quite clearly is. Has nothing to do with rights or wrongs, just proof.

You have proved nothing to me Morgoth apart from the fact that you are ignorant and can't follow a challenge.

I asked for proof of Collingwood money in St.kilda pockets. You gave me equalisation figures.

Therefore no Collingwood money has gone into St.Kilda pockets directly.

It really is that simple. You cannot prove that the Collingwood money goes to St.Kilda. The $125k that St.kilda receives may well come from the other deficient clubs.

So until you come up with a direct transfer of money from Collingwood to St.Kilda, you look like the arrogant bragging fool your troll posts about St.Kilda make you sound.

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ha ha ha

Originally posted by Falchoon
I think you missed me entirely there. Collingwood pay a net $250k in to the equalisation fund. Propping up other clubs apparently. By having a date provided by the AFL where a guaranteed extra 20000 will turn up has seen the swing catch and overtake the roundabout. 20000 x $14.

ie Joffas welfare recipient line.

Hooray. At least somebody here understands basic accounting.

Morgoth - my sig still is just as relevant as ever. Your club is an AFL endorsed welfare recipient.

 

[morgoth]

oh god

Every time I think you are a stupid bastard you go to a new level. Have you ever heard of the concept of pro rata or averaging.

I give up you really are a mung.

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: equalisation fund - suck on it Joffa

Originally posted by MarkT

Sorry mark I will have to take issue with some of your replies.

As for gifted, well that's one slant on being used to fund the shootin' match. We are gifted games against the rivals we have battled in front of droves for over 100 years because our members and supporters and theirs get off their arses and watch every time.

100 years ago there wasn't a 16 team national competition crammed into 22 rounds of H&A matches. The teams played each other in a fair draw and home games against non-Vic teams didn't occur. There was not the same burden of running a football club as of today. In the "old" days clubs didn't have the same stringent rules of corporate governance as they do today, therefore patrons such as John Wren would pay footballers "under the table".

Now, with football clubs run as businesses, some clubs get to play each other at home each and every single year. If this occurs, other Vic clubs have to take up the slack in a 22 round draw. If 4 clubs in Vic are advantaged it stands to reason 6 are disadvantaged.

Does your Boss gift you money every week or month? Must be a nice generous bloke.

My boss is a lovely bloke. However he treats all of his employmees with fairness and doesn't favour some at the expense of the others. Because he is a good boss he understands that his business is a team environment and the sum is greater than the individual parts. He understands that to favour some employees will only cause poor morale and damage his business as a whole.

The excuse for the rigged draw is more teams than the time frame can accomodate. The excuse for the blockbusters - the Vic and the non Vic ones - is bums on seats and TV demands. That can change but not with a one year turnaround from oblivion to mediocrity. You need a bit more to draw your cynical bretheran from thier non football attending inherited lifestyles I think.

At least you acknowledge that the draw is rigged. I understand why it is rigged, however you dont want to accept that the rigged draw by its own definition will disadvantage certain parties.

Concentrate on the real solution not the unsustainable quick fix. Get your president to make your own way for ever. You and your club are simply waisting breath and energy. Even if you were to get your way it would be acedemic. It would do bugger all for your finances. Win games, make the finals for a decade, win a flag and you'll have a huge bandwagon. Keep it up and you'll have a huge club. I can't believe the potential that the Saints still have after all they have done to their own. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

All fair points about St.Kilda. And this is what the club must aim for. The reason the Saints have such potential is because of the Saint supporters passion. We are long suffering, we have been critisised and pilloried for so long that we now wear our support of the most unsuccessful club in the VFL/AFL as a badge of honour. The club motto is "Strength through Loyalty" (Fortius Quo Fidelious), and we are loyal.
Yes we do need to win consistantly, we do need to improve the finances over 10 years, not one, we do need to tap the support base for new membership. And the Saints have started that process. The Tassie initiative will reap benefits, both in finances and membership, winning games in Melbourne will increase membership. Remember, on the back of 4 terrible years the Saints membership is at an all time record of nearly 24,000. Granted this is nowhere near Collingwoods 40,000 or Essendons 35,000 but it is significant.

However, how do we keep this momentum going when the 4 big Vic AFL clubs get advantages such as a rigged draw? How does our sponsorship grow when the big four has a stranglehold on Friday night football, and the Saints are hardly shown on Free to Air TV.

You say don't ask for handouts to be competitive. Fair enough. The only way the Saints will be long term competitive, omn and off the field is to do it themselves. But I find it highly hypocritical that you would say that while your very own team gets handouts in the way of a rigged draw.

Please don't preach to other clubs while you get a leg up, it makes you sound like Mr Corporate Welfare Richard Pratt prattling on about single mothers on welfare. It begins to sound like a blame the victim mentality.


Because it's what the people want as evidenced by their bums on seats and on couches and that funds the sides who can't slide further.

MarkT, the whole point of this is that the home team reaps the benifit of the gate paying customer at these games. If Essendon played the Bulldogs as a Bulldog home game each and ever single year, dont you think the Bulldogs would be better off with all of the Essendon supporters paying at the gate, as compared to playing Melbourne each and every single year?

Didn't hear any of that directed at the Saints by Morgoth and yet his comments are a troll?

Read many of his post regarding the Saints. Most are disparaging rubbish. This thread was started because of his arrogant ignorance and insults. His views are hardly ever constructive and what I consider trolling. He is just behind the _Dudd in that regard.

I'm starting see how you can view equalisation that favors your club as so far short of the welfare mark. I used to think it was a case of welfare dependancy feeding welfare dependancy but maybe it's just a problem putting all the slot A's into flap B's.

Sorry Mark not quite with you on this.

You can see a world of difference to what Collingwood earn and what St.Kilda are given and yet you see no difference between rules to make some clubs more successful for marketing purposes and draws to maximise revenue by marketing activities.

Chicken or Egg. Marketing for Collingwood is done by a top media personality in Eddie McGuire who also works at one of the TV free to air channels who broadcast Football. And good luck to him and Collingwood, I wish he was a Saints supporter. Marketing is also best achieved when you reach your target audience most effectively. The advantaged 4 Vic clubs have a stranglehold on the most popular football night. Other clubs like the Saints are, in economic terms, crowded out of the market, as they are hardly ever seen. Again this is because of the AFL draw and the advantages to the Big 4. How does the Saints sponsors get value for money when they are hardly ever seen except for the significantly smaller Pay TV market?

Rome and a St.Kilda premiership were not built in a day.

Rome lasted 1000 years as an undisputed empire, I wouldn't mind a decade.

In truth I suspect you understand more than you care to say. Then again what would I know. I'm a racist, jobless, toothless, hairless, oneshoeless steriotypical Victoria Park yobbo and the AFL loves me because of my spending power. How charitable of them.

Aahhh at last the truth. So in fact the Pies get two bites at the welfare cherry, one from your dole money, donated by hard working stiffs like me, and the AFL welfare. Why haven't you conquered the world yet?

As for understanding. I understand that the big four have the most supporters, have the most drawing power, and have the most home games against each other than any other Vic team. In this unfair condition, the rich will get richer, the poor poorer, and the rich club supporters will still complain about supposed handouts to the Brisbanes, Sydneys, and Bulldogs, without ever examining their own position.

Actually, we meet at night and discuss how we can steal from the poor and give to the rich. Ever wondered why we waited until Carlton went broke before we stole nearly a mil from them and until they had no decent players before we stole their draft choices? No point stealing from the rich is there. That's been done already.

Sarcasm really doesn't become someone as well considered and thoughtful as yourself MarkT. You argue your position with as much real objectivity as anybody who is fighting for a losing argument .

We all know you dont need to covertly meet at night to steal from the poor, you have the AFL to do it for you in broad daylight.

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: oh god

Originally posted by morgoth
Every time I think you are a stupid bastard you go to a new level. Have you ever heard of the concept of pro rata or averaging.

I give up you really are a mung.

Oh a great retort troll boy.

Whats next pal, threats of violence?

You are becoming as laughably irrational as _Dudd.

You have been caught out with your arrogant ignorance, and now restort to name calling. Geez Morgoth, whats next, the Saints are a rabble? They have 26 wooden spoons? Blah Blah Blah - troll troll troll, you have nothing to say. You have had your puny @rse kicked from pillar to post and you dont like it. You can prove nothing and you look like a fool.

As usual.

Still waiting for the evidence Morgoth. Put up or shut up.

 

[MarkT]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: nah

Originally posted by grayham
Please provide proof (links will do).

Of what?
You asked and I answered. I said none. How can I provide a link.
Oh, actually I can. here it is:
www.
Try that. Nothing proves nothing.

Originally posted by grayham
And Eddie is no media expert. He's just the new Ray Martin.

Eddie is THE media expert. He actually works in it.

Originally posted by grayham
The quotes I've seen of Eddie (post coming to Sydney earlier in the year and "showing us how its done"... well showing 400 people how its done) have all been very supportive of Sydney in the AFL comp nad the enormous value Sydney provides. Its been refreshing to see eddie with a brown tongue and not from buckley.

You really do struggle don't you. Hardly anyone doesn't think Sydney is extremely important. As far as I know Eddie has never said anything to the contrary but if you can show me where he has then I will say he is/was wrong. What does that have to do with anything? All the Colles grandstanding is just that. Eddies wants to reduce the assistanace not pull the plug. Get out of your paranoia bunker and you'll see what I have been saying for all this time.

Originally posted by grayham
BTW Mark, in case you didnt realise, you are no media expert. You're definately not a football expert as your cash donation to bigfooty in the next few weeks will testify.

No, as I always say on here, I am just an opinionated one eyed Collingwood supporter. I am not the first person to lose a bet on the footy and I won;t be the last - whether it is the bet you are talking about or the next one I make.

 

[morgoth]

why bother

Joffa

Nothing more to be said you won. I really am an idiot who knows nothing, I accept defeat and offer you my unconditional surrender.

As you are corerct lets get rid of equalisation for Collingwood as it won't matter to the Saints income from this fund will it? Dare you to answer that one.