Essendon to file Federal Court injunction against ASADA (yes, another one)

[morgoth]

Yes. And since I don't think you actually have read the OMs, and doubt your ability to locate them yourself, here you go:

http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/25233/Essendon-Orginating-Appliation.pdf

http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/25234/Hird-Originating-Application.pdf

Please point me to where you say that Essendon is trying to prevent the players from taking legal action against Essendon.

Its just logic. If the players go down they will take action against their employer over damages caused by their be negligent practices. The argument is that Essendon want to stop the case progressin to avoid being sued.

Pretty simpple.

 

[Hill2Pav]

OK Romeoh CJ, give us your learned legal opinion on how Essendon can compel Dank to make a statement, or hand over documents, when ASADA has failed completely in this respect.

I'd love to hear it.

As someone who runs a Safety consultancy business in the offshore O&G industry I can with full confidence state that it is common law as well as standard contractual practice that any documentation completed and used by a contractor is at all times considered the property of the client; i.e. the EFC in this case.

 

[jenny61_99]

For the umpteenth and last time for all the foamers, in answer to the "why now" and "why Federal Court" question:

Essendon didn't challenge the investigation at the beginning because it didn't think it had done anything wrong and was confident of being cleared (along with a number of other reasons, such as the "agreement", AFL pressure etc.).

Now that it has been issued with the notices, it is opting for the Federal Court Action because it is by far the quickest way to bring the matter to an end.

If that fails, then yes, you will see them challenge the infractions themselves, if issued.

Bullshit.

The quickest way for this to be brought to an end is for Essendon to allow the process to be completed. IF they are then unhappy with the findings, appeal to the AAT. Or CAS. This wanting to get off on a ****ing technicality just paints them as guilty as hell. Let the process complete. It's what they agreed to as part of the AFL anti doping code. They are not fulfilling their obligations under the code.

 

[Chameleon75]

Sigh. Apart from repeatedly publicly urging him to come forward you mean? And, as I said, please make a sound legal argument as to how they can compel him to make a statement, or disgorge records that he says Essendon has already.

he's not working in sport, not sure they can compel him, perhaps there are holes in the legislation if their not testing it. But it is a question many of us ponder.

I do note that he did provide a stat dec saying he had no documents.

 

[QuietB]

Sigh. Apart from repeatedly publicly urging him to come forward you mean? And, as I said, please make a sound legal argument as to how they can compel him to make a statement, or disgorge records that he says Essendon has already.

According to the logic Dank holds the key to Essendon's innocence (which incidentally would be the quickest way to end this - a lot quicker and cheaper and cleaner and more certain than court). But Essendon have not made one attempt to obtain that information. They threatened to sue the Carlton CEO for calling them cheats, but not even a public muttering directed at Dank.

They might not be able to get the information. But is it too much to try?

 

[ABRL]

Its just logic. If the players go down they will take action against their employer over damages caused by their be negligent practices. The argument is that Essendon want to stop the case progressin to avoid being sued.

Pretty simpple.

So... it's the "vibe" ? OK.

 

[ziad]

Sigh. Apart from repeatedly publicly urging him to come forward you mean? And, as I said, please make a sound legal argument as to how they can compel him to make a statement, or disgorge records that he says Essendon has already.

perhaps they don't want or need his statement. perhaps they have enough evidence to sink the windy hill ship without dank. perhaps the commonwealth is on to dank and others for bigger things and they don't want to muddy the waters.

perhaps they have evidence from other parties that is compelling but not known to efc.

perhaps efc are in a right royal fight but don't know it.

perhaps efc do know it and are desperate to stop it being made public

 

[jenny61_99]

Had a read of that Rucci article (http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/ruc...s-over-integrity/story-fnig5e6k-1226961798556)

This line is fantastic:

While critics ask why ASADA has not interviewed Stephen Dank, the man who orchestrated Essendon’s contentious fitness program in 2012, the more meaningful point is: Why have the Bombers not used all their might and legal power to force Dank to detail everything that happened at Windy Hill two years ago?
...
He clearly has absolutely no understanding of the legal system whatsoever.

Perhaps he thinks you can just go round subpoenaing anybody, at any time?

No wonder he is ridiculed every time his name comes up in the wider media.

I can't stand Rucci. Think he is a flog of the highest order. I suspect someone else wrote this piece and he put a name to it because it makes absolute perfect sense. Essendon believe Dank has either a) gone rogue - injected substances into players that they did not approve of or b) committed fraud against them - by purchasing prohibited substances using club funds and using them in his clinics. Either way, if Essendon believed either of these cases to be true - they should be suing his arse all the way to the high court.

First point of call though: Under sec. 82 of the Crimes Act 1958 (VIC), a person who by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or another any financial advantage is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for 10 years maximum. If you believe you are the victim of fraud, you should first report the matter to the police. The police will make an assessment to determine whether the matter is criminal in nature. If the information provided supports a finding that a criminal offence may have been committed, the police will investigate the matter further.

Have the Bombers contacted the Police? Got them involved? Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[ABRL]

Bullshit.

The quickest way for this to be brought to an end is for Essendon to allow the process to be completed. IF they are then unhappy with the findings, appeal to the AAT. Or CAS. This wanting to get off on a ******* technicality just paints them as guilty as hell. Let the process complete. It's what they agreed to as part of the AFL anti doping code. They are not fulfilling their obligations under the code.

No. The quickest way is to go to the Federal Court. Do you really dispute that? Versus taking 34 individual cases through the AAT, CAS etc. ? Come on.

Essendon do not have any "Code" obligations to accept sanctions based on unseen evidence gathered during an investigation that they say was conducted unlawfully.

 

[romeoh]

OK Romeoh CJ, give us your learned legal opinion on how Essendon can compel Dank to make a statement, or hand over documents, when ASADA has failed completely in this respect.

I'd love to hear it.

Well money talks -perhaps instead of sending Jimbo on his well paid hol to France, i dunno, Danksy could have been encouraged to fess up.
In lieu of that, are you telling me that EFC which has been happy to take on WADA, ASADA, AFL, the other 17 clubs, the rest of the football community apart from a few Bomber nut jobs, its own admin( Evans, Corcoran and co), to virtually derail two years of football season, to prolong the damocles sword hanging over their players, now going the Fed court-the mighty Bombers with all their might and power and 'integrity'-can't get Danks-the man who can save you all, to speak.
Well you cannot be cereal.

 

[ABRL]

I can't stand Rucci. Think he is a flog of the highest order. I suspect someone else wrote this piece and he put a name to it because it makes absolute perfect sense. Essendon believe Dank has either a) gone rogue - injected substances into players that they did not approve of or b) committed fraud against them - by purchasing prohibited substances using club funds and using them in his clinics. Either way, if Essendon believed either of these cases to be true - they should be suing his arse all the way to the high court.

First point of call though: Under sec. 82 of the Crimes Act 1958 (VIC), a person who by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or another any financial advantage is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for 10 years maximum. If you believe you are the victim of fraud, you should first report the matter to the police. The police will make an assessment to determine whether the matter is criminal in nature. If the information provided supports a finding that a criminal offence may have been committed, the police will investigate the matter further.

Have the Bombers contacted the Police? Got them involved? Yeah, didn't think so.

Essendon has never said anything regarding b), as far as I know.

A) is not fraud. Essendon also have not said anything like that, which would be admitting that their players ingested banned substances.

 

[ABRL]

Well money talks -perhaps instead of sending Jimbo on his well paid hol to France, i dunno, Danksy could have been encouraged to fess up.
In lieu of that, are you telling me that EFC which has been happy to take on WADA, ASADA, AFL, the other 17 clubs, the rest of the football community apart from a few Bomber nut jobs, its own admin( Evans, Corcoran and co), to virtually derail two years of football season, to prolong the damocles sword hanging over their players, now going the Fed court-the mighty Bombers with all their might and power and 'integrity'-can't get Danks-the man who can save you all, to speak.
Well you cannot be cereal.

He has been encouraged. Very publicly. As I said, I invite you to tell me how they can do anything against him legally at this point.

 

[jenny61_99]

Essendon has never said anything regarding b), as far as I know.

A) is not fraud.

Probably not, but it's certainly criminal.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

No. The quickest way is to go to the Federal Court. Do you really dispute that? Versus taking 34 individual cases through the AAT, CAS etc. ? Come on.

Essendon do not have any "Code" obligations to accept sanctions based on unseen evidence gathered during an investigation that they say was conducted unlawfully.

So are you saying that the evidence won't get thrown out at the ADRVP?
I thought most bomber supporters are saying that asada have nothing!
Wont this lead to a prompt dismissal?
That surely would be much faster than anything the Federal Court could do?

 

[I Rock]

Yes. And since I don't think you actually have read the OMs, and doubt your ability to locate them yourself, here you go:

http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/25233/Essendon-Orginating-Appliation.pdf

http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/25234/Hird-Originating-Application.pdf

Please point me to where you say that Essendon is trying to prevent the players from taking legal action against Essendon.

A permanent injunction restraining the Respondent from using any information obtained in the investigation for any purpose under the Act, the Regulations and the NAD Scheme.

Now I will stand corrected if that statement actually reads ASADA can't use the information for purposes under the Act etc. And not, can't use the information gathered under the Act etc. If it is the latter then Essendon are looking to seal all the evidence collected (because they managed to get rid of the rest) and it can't be used in anyway.

Thus making that information unavailable for anyone (including players) to use.

 

[GarnerSmash]

So are you saying that the evidence won't get thrown out at the ADRVP?
I thought most bomber supporters are saying that asada have nothing!
Wont this lead to a prompt dismissal?
That surely would be much faster than anything the Federal Court could do?

Considering it very likely that each player is suspected of the same thing one would think that the ADRVP will look at one case and apply the outcome to all. Seems fairly quick to me.

 

[romeoh]

He has been encouraged. Very publicly. As I said, I invite you to tell me how they can do anything against him legally at this point.

And like I said you cannot be cereal-if they wanted him to speak, have no doubt, the old 'we have ways and means' would have worked a treat.

 

[ABRL]

A permanent injunction restraining the Respondent from using any information obtained in the investigation for any purpose under the Act, the Regulations and the NAD Scheme.

Now I will stand corrected if that statement actually reads ASADA can't use the information for purposes under the Act etc. And not, can't use the information gathered under the Act etc. If it is the latter then Essendon are looking to seal all the evidence collected (because they managed to get rid of the rest) and it can't be used in anyway.

Thus making that information unavailable for anyone (including players) to use.

The injunction restrains the Respondent only.

If the players wanted to pursue action against Essendon, they could simply make their statements again, use the Ziggy report, subpoena Charters or whoever else they needed to.

 

[ABRL]

And like I said you cannot be cereal-if they wanted him to speak, have no doubt, the old 'we have ways and means' would have worked a treat.

I do have a doubt. That's why I am asking you to expand on 'ways and means'.

 

[I Rock]

It's amazing that apparently the quickest way to end this is to contested an investigation you already accepted charges and punishment for. The joint investigation finished around 12 months ago, Essendon accepted punishment on the back of it. Yet they now pipe up after ASADA finish their investigation that has included nearly a year of investigation after the joint investigation finished.

 

[I Rock]

The injunction restrains the Respondent only.

If the players wanted to pursue action against Essendon, they could simply make their statements again, use the Ziggy report, subpoena Charters or whoever else they needed to.

But they can't (as in how I am reading it) use the information gathered in the ASADA investigation. Think carefully, ASADA interviewed and got affidavits (possible) signed from some very key players since Ziggy and the Joint Investigation.

 

[romeoh]

I do have a doubt. That's why I am asking you to expand on 'ways and means'.

For crying out loud-sit him down and give him a serious talking to would have done it. Offer to pay his legal bills. Offer to share the blame around. Sue him, the club seems to have no aversion to legal measures. If he has info that will exonerate the club- wouldn't suing/pursuing Danks be preferable to the current measures?
Sorry-the we can't get him to talk-I am not buying it. And the fact a few are prepared to believe that, probs help explain why we are in this mess which has been very damaging to the comp!
Can you see-your options are pursue one sports scientist who has the info that will clear your name. Or take on ASADA by disputing its processes, and probs anyone else, through the expensive,complex, lengthy court system that is not going to finally resolve things in anycase. And in doing so further delay the name clearing. Which option would you take?
Can you please tell me why he has been reluctant to speak?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

What a ******* stupid post
Grow up idiot
A poster was making a point about their feelings about the matter, nothing more

and you respond with personal abuse?

It must be getting to you. I'd suggest take some of your own advice. If it's going to upset you like this I'd suggest logging off?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

No. The quickest way is to go to the Federal Court. Do you really dispute that? Versus taking 34 individual cases through the AAT, CAS etc. ? Come on.

Only if the Fed Court action is wholly successful. And from where I sit that looks fairly unlikely.

If the result of that action is anything less than an injunction preventing ASADA from relying on the evidence obtained in the 16 months investigation, then all it's done is delay the ultimate resolution of ASADA's case against the players.

 

[The Prosecutor]

It's amazing that apparently the quickest way to end this is to contested an investigation you already accepted charges and punishment for. The joint investigation finished around 12 months ago, Essendon accepted punishment on the back of it. Yet they now pipe up after ASADA finish their investigation that has included nearly a year of investigation after the joint investigation finished.

It's the same investigation...