Mega Thread Essendon's punishment - Opinion, theories etc

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Ari said:
When did I say that? What is said is that they are undoubtedly guilty of poor governance. That is without question. They are not, to date, guilty of taking banned substances. And that is what this is all about. The AFL seem hell-bent on the charge sheet putting Essendon down as drug-cheats whereas Essendon will not accept this because it's speculation and they have none yet been found guilty.

Please do not accuse me of saying Essendon are not guilty of anything.
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WADA guidelines would constitute that they have systematically taken banned substances. This white-washing over of events by Essendon supporters and media pundits like AFL 360 is both delusional and tiring.
 
Hearts to hearts said:
You said they hadn't been proven to have broken any rules. They have.
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At this point they're guilty of poor governance and record-keeping to which they operated in an environment where banned substances could have existed. I have agreed with that all along. As for bring the game in to disrepute and being drug cheats, that's another matter entirely.

Apologies if I mis-read your post.
 

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Ari said:
At this point they're guilty of poor governance and record-keeping to which they operated in an environment where banned substances could have existed. I have agreed with that all along. As for bring the game in to disrepute and being drug cheats, that's another matter entirely.

Apologies if I mis-read your post.
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Banned substances have been identified as being on Essendon's premises.
 
So you want Jobe's medal back as well now :)

What are you lot going to bitch and whine about when this thing is completed? Your lives will be empty.
 
Ari said:
I am pretty certain they have tested viles and such from Essendon at the time which came up empty (anyone??). Essendon, to my knowledge, are more than happy to comply with testing for their athletes.... but this far out they won't tell anything.
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I think that is true, but you have to remember its very hard to test for unique performance enhancing drugs. There probably isn't a widely used test for Thymosin Beta-4
Essendon are probably clear of using testosterone or HGH, cocaine, etc, but not neccesarily Thymosin etc.
 
Kenno27 said:
Banned substances have been identified as being on Essendon's premises.
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I realise that, and it does not read well for Essendon at all. These substances were delivered by Dank and possibly Robinson. Essendon did not sought appropriate due diligence when employing these guys, we know that now. And they did not keep adequate records of their activities. But, to be fair, Essendon basically stole them from Geelong. And when you poach staff the process of employment is somewhat different to that of a new employee who arrives via a job interview.

On that matter. Have we looked in to Geelong practises during their premierships years with Dank? Just sayin'.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
I think that is true, but you have to remember its very hard to test for unique performance enhancing drugs. There probably isn't a widely used test for Thymosin Beta-4
Essendon are probably clear of using testosterone or HGH, cocaine, etc, but not neccesarily Thymosin etc.
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Correct.

If T-4 was on premises, is this enough for them to be seen as guilty of taking said drug by ASADA/WADA? I honestly don't know. Do they need to prove that Essendon took it, or is it being on premises enough to bury them for it?
 
We have 16 premierships last time I looked and the 2000 preliminary final was more enjoyable than thrashing Melbourne and winning the cup the week after.
 
Ari said:
Correct.

If T-4 was on premises, is this enough for them to be seen as guilty of taking said drug by ASADA/WADA? I honestly don't know. Do they need to prove that Essendon took it, or is it being on premises enough to bury them for it?
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Combined with the forms and texts it's probably enough to bury them, as it forms a pretty good circumstantial case for intent to use. I'd be very surprised if they don't receive infraction notices over it, and it's then a matter of whether they can successfully argue the no-fault clause for a reduced or suspended sentence.

This is why I don't get the Essendon fight over the last few weeks. They need the AFL on side to argue the no fault clause, and painting the admin as the fall guys is the way to do it. I suspect they thought they could get away with Dank and the Weapon, but when the which hunt spread to the boys club the implicit deal unravelled.
 

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Kenno27 said:
Banned substances have been identified as being on Essendon's premises.
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But, but ...... that was used as boot polish your honour....we wouldn't dream of giving our players any unknown substances & putting them as risk. We have the records to prove it..........somewhere.
 
Warwick Todd said:
We have 16 premierships last time I looked and the 2000 preliminary final was more enjoyable than thrashing Melbourne and winning the cup the week after.
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All those premierships are the envy of so many clubs, like mine who have no silverware at all. And I see you reference them frequently. Just like James Hird's writ aginst the AFL where he spends a page documenting the shopping list of his accomplishments. However when this is finished, Essendon will have some pretty ugly stains on their extensive achievement resume. And while 16 premierships will take a long, long, time for other teams to accumulate, the taint of what is probably yet to be revealed will be all yours in glorious isolation.
 
If the AFL's position was as strong as the deluded here think they would have just bought down penalties and not negotiated.

Don't kid yourselves. It's not that straight forward or it would have been done & dusted long ago.

Essendon are one of the proudest, strongest and most successful clubs in the AFL, and once this is sorted we will continue to be long into the future.
 
Warwick Todd said:
We have 16 premierships last time I looked and the 2000 preliminary final was more enjoyable than thrashing Melbourne and winning the cup the week after.
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In domestic football Rangers have won more league titles and trebles than any other club in the world, winning the league title 54 times, the Scottish Cup 33 times and the Scottish League Cup 27 times, and achieving the treble of all three in the same season seven times.
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Didn't save them
 
We don't need saving :)

Was that a Bulldog supporter? How's the mini trophy cabinet going and when is the next save our club can rattle :)
 
The fact is that if ASADA have the evidence that players have been injected with illegal/banned substances it does not matter what the intent was. Sure the players may have been lied to, but this does not make a difference. They may not get the full suspension but a penalty will occur. And even the argument, unlikely as it is, that Hird and others in charge had no idea, will not make a difference to ASADA. AFL is currently dealing with those in charge. Once the full report comes out the players will cop their punishment.

And if the players have no idea what was happening, then expect an exodus from the club, as well as some court cases.
 
I am not praying for the worst. I loved Hirdy as a player and loved the idea of the Hird, Voss, Bucks rivalry continuing in the coaching realm. However the AFL simply has no reason to attack and ruin one of their biggest clubs. Do Bombers fans really think AD just hates Hird and decided randomly to take him down?

The AFL is losing in this situation. They would not be doing this for no reason. Happy to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.
 
The majority will likely be proved wrong here simply because of the wide differences in their opinions on the outcome. Hopefully at some point we'll all know what the outcome is.
 
From The Age today:

NRL head of football Todd Greenberg denies that Cronulla reaching the grand final would be difficult for the code if the Sharks are still under an anti-doping investigation.

The prospect of fifth-placed Cronulla playing in the October 6 season decider appeared more realistic after they dismantled the ladder-leading Sydney Roosters in a 32-22 win on Monday night, securing their spot in the finals.

The AFL was at pains to head off a similar scenario with Essendon, securing an interim report from the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority on their ongoing investigation into that club's controversial 2012 supplements program ahead of the finals series.

However the NRL has been steadfast from day one of ASADA's probe into rugby league and Cronulla's 2011 supplements program that it will take no action until the ASADA investigation is finished.
 
Don't try and hide behind another code's methodology. The NRL already has form when it comes to stripping past premiership teams of their trophies, so no biggie.

Plus, from your own Doc Reid's pen,"It appears to me that in Sydney with Rugby League the clubs do not answer to the governing body (e.g. A.F.L.). It seems that their whole culture is based on trying to beat the system as are close to the edge as one can.

The AFL premiership list has no asterix next to a team's name yet. Unless you count Carlton's with that Wayne Harmes out of bounds effort. But that's an argument for a different day.

​
 
Who's trying to hide behind anything??

I merely posted an article demonstrating how differently the NRL are handling things.

Make of it what you will but don't go blaming me for what the NRL do :)
 
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