Mega Thread Essendon's punishment - Opinion, theories etc

[jhndos]

So for all the bluff and the insistence "we did nothing wrong" it will ultimately come down to the following.

We didn't do it = $2.75 mill fine
Its not illegal = Cocoran 6 months
We will fight all charges = All points lost from 2013
Its an ambush = 1st & 2nd round draft picks gone
Im shocked to be here = Hird gone 12 months

Add to that SALADA (as some EFC supporters call it ) any infractions players may get specifically if they can prove that players were administered Beta 4.

As 1 EFC supporter told me on Monday 19-8 we will stick it up the AFL "happy days"

As of Wednesday 21-8 not only did EFC not stick it anywhere but it was the AFL which stuck it up Essendon.
All those tall's EFC have to trade have just lost some value me thinks .

Happy days

 

[mickeyjuice]

The bit in bold has been carefully worded by you for maximum effect. Good try. We all know that Essendon wasn't doing anything to deliberately cheat. Like I said, they will likely - and should be - exonerated on all of that. This AOD thing wasn't even performance enhancing. There are far more serious things to worry about in the world, surely?

LOL

 

[Books]

Essendon must lose draft picks for the AFL to regain an credibility.

I could not care less if Hird is suspended, or for how long. Just fine him.
The club fine is merely a token gesture to look tough and help the AFL pay for Vlad's bonus.

The only meaningful punishments are loss of points for this season, and loss of early draft picks.
The Crows lost draft picks for two years, for hiding some paperwork. The Essendon saga is far worse than that.

If Essendon keep their draft picks, this whole situation will be even more farcical than ever.

 

[bacon buster]

The only meaningful punishments are loss of points for this season, and loss of early draft picks.
The Crows lost draft picks for two years, for hiding some paperwork. The Essendon saga is far worse than that.

If Essendon keep their draft picks, this whole situation will be even more farcical than ever.

i don't understand this line of argument at all? yes, I agree that what Essendon did was far worse than the Crows
that's why they appear to be the first team in 117 years to have all premiership points stripped
there is still a possibility that some of our list could receive infraction notices, and be suspended for 6/12/24 months, in which case, draft picks will be required.

if that happens, that will be punishment enough in itself. if not, then the stripping of premiership points is an enormous penalty, the likes of which has never been seen.

 

[jenny61_99]

Dan26 is a master of begging the question.

Dan26 enters the fray on Day 182 asking Day 3 questions. Ground Hog day much?

 

[Books]

i don't understand this line of argument at all? yes, I agree that what Essendon did was far worse than the Crows
that's why they appear to be the first team in 117 years to have all premiership points stripped
there is still a possibility that some of our list could receive infraction notices, and be suspended for 6/12/24 months, in which case, draft picks will be required.

if that happens, that will be punishment enough in itself. if not, then the stripping of premiership points is an enormous penalty, the likes of which has never been seen.

Losing your points this year hurts you for this year only, and in all likelihood probably only costs you finals match.

Losing draft picks is the only real and meaningful punishment.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

i don't understand this line of argument at all? yes, I agree that what Essendon did was far worse than the Crows
that's why they appear to be the first team in 117 years to have all premiership points stripped
there is still a possibility that some of our list could receive infraction notices, and be suspended for 6/12/24 months, in which case, draft picks will be required.

if that happens, that will be punishment enough in itself. if not, then the stripping of premiership points is an enormous penalty, the likes of which has never been seen.

The fact that Essendon now seem so 'willing' to accept the stripping of premiership points tells us that its not enough of a penalty.

The draft picks have to be stripped now (and yes, for among the reasons that that is what happened to Carlton and the Crows).

If, down the track, draft picks are required the AFL has at its discretion the ability to issue an extra priority pick.

 

[Big Fozza]

i'll be pretty disillusioned with the AFL in whole if Hird only cops a 6 month ban and also if they only lose picks for 2014.

according to the charges from the AFL what they did is despicable. i could hardly think of anything worse. i understand that the charge sheet is only 1 side of the story but would need to see EFC / Hird defend themselves accordingly for them to cop anything less than Hird life ban (or at least 5 years) and draft picks for a few years. He was the architect of a systematic doping regime that put the health of players at risk, the integrity of our game down the gurgler and compromised last year and this year's seasons.

the only thing which could excuse the afl going soft is if they know ASADA has player infractions coming...

 

[kaiserchief13]

i don't understand this line of argument at all? yes, I agree that what Essendon did was far worse than the Crows
that's why they appear to be the first team in 117 years to have all premiership points stripped
there is still a possibility that some of our list could receive infraction notices, and be suspended for 6/12/24 months, in which case, draft picks will be required.

if that happens, that will be punishment enough in itself. if not, then the stripping of premiership points is an enormous penalty, the likes of which has never been seen.

The player(s) getting suspended is not a punishment for Essendon, that is a punishment for the player(s).

Essendon should lose first and second round draft picks for the next 3 drafts, lose their points for 2013 and play for nothing in 2014. Also add fines for the club and suspensions for Hird and Thompson.

 

[uthmani]

The player(s) getting suspended is not a punishment for Essendon, that is a punishment for the player(s).

Essendon should lose first and second round draft picks for the next 3 drafts, lose their points for 2013 and play for nothing in 2014. Also add fines for the club and suspensions for Hird and Thompson.

Wholeheartedly agree. Points loss for 2013/14.

 

[Big Fozza]

The player(s) getting suspended is not a punishment for Essendon, that is a punishment for the player(s).

Essendon should lose first and second round draft picks for the next 3 drafts, lose their points for 2013 and play for nothing in 2014. Also add fines for the club and suspensions for Hird and Thompson.

i'm not sure what thompson has done

 

[daniel_4tw]

The player(s) getting suspended is not a punishment for Essendon, that is a punishment for the player(s).

Essendon should lose first and second round draft picks for the next 3 drafts, lose their points for 2013 and play for nothing in 2014. Also add fines for the club and suspensions for Hird and Thompson.

Anything less will be a joke.

Unfortunately I'm not hopeful.

Does anyone know when the hearing will finish?

 

[van peebles]

Anything less will be a joke.

Unfortunately I'm not hopeful.

Does anyone know when the hearing will finish?

as soon as the AFL: can close door no2 asada

 

[froggy1976]

Points only hurts the players.

Must take the draft picks to hurt the club if it is a club punishment.

 

[Gavstar]

We all know that Essendon wasn't doing anything to deliberately cheat. Agreed but they did cheat.

This AOD thing wasn't even performance enhancing. INCORRECT whether its a PED or not is still unproven. IT IS A DERIVATIVE OF hGH and is Banned by WADA

There are far more serious things to worry about in the world, surely? Relevance? Injecting players with an unknown substance from Mexico "left" in the clinic by a patient would be far more serious IMO.

Essendon will likely be charged on governance issues, which is a joke. If someone is governing poorly, vote them out (unless they have broken the law, in which case lock them up). Confused are you saying the other 17 clubs should vote to deregister the Bombers?

Labor havn't broken the law, last time I checked. But they have governed poorly. You can make the same argument about Essendon. What have they actually been proved to have done which is against the rules?

The AFL clubs voted to establish the commission, this is the process and the body that they all agreed that penalties would be considered by. Essendon breached the AFL anti-doping code, eg the case for failure to keep adequate medical records is pretty much agreed by all.

Carlton's salary cap cheating (and Essendon's much more minor salary cap breach as well) were far worse than this supposed "biggest story in football history"

Carlton NEVER put the welfare of their players at risk. But we did deliberately rort the salary cap as did Essendon, Melbourne etc.

What has made this story so big isn't what Essendon have done (and no player was surely under any physical danger from injections Really name the phase 3 studies that show that treating healthy players with AOD9605, Thymosin alpha1 or Beta4 or TA-65 is risk free! , let's be honest, and use our common-sense), it's is purely the politics of this situation WRONG. I don't think there deserves to be any penalty whatsoever until it can be proved they have broken a rule. Hell, if we havn't been proven to have broken a rule and are then stripped of points anyway, what sort of compensation would you call for ODN's to make up for something so unjustful?

Essendon is being punished for
- failure to carry out due diligence on Dank and Robinson.
- failure to carry out their own protocols to ensure that the program was compliant
- failure to adequately control the supplements program.
- failure in their duty of care to their players


I think those at Essendon would admit to all of these charges. Remember Dank was an employee of Essendon, the Bombers are tarred with his brush.

The doping charges well, we will hear about those in Oct/Nov apparently. The ASADA, ADVRP, AFL and WADA will all have the ability to contribute their two cents worth. The punishments mooted for the governance issue are minor compared to the effect of potential maximum 2-4 year suspensions for all Bombers players taking AOD9604/Thymosin beta 4 could have on the club finances due to lawsuits and ability to field a team.

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

i'll be pretty disillusioned with the AFL in whole if Hird only cops a 6 month ban and also if they only lose picks for 2014.

according to the charges from the AFL what they did is despicable. i could hardly think of anything worse. i understand that the charge sheet is only 1 side of the story but would need to see EFC / Hird defend themselves accordingly for them to cop anything less than Hird life ban (or at least 5 years) and draft picks for a few years. He was the architect of a systematic doping regime that put the health of players at risk, the integrity of our game down the gurgler and compromised last year and this year's seasons.

the only thing which could excuse the afl going soft is if they know ASADA has player infractions coming...

I really hope this is the case because anything else really is lame for the crime

 

[froggy1976]

i don't understand this line of argument at all? yes, I agree that what Essendon did was far worse than the Crows
that's why they appear to be the first team in 117 years to have all premiership points stripped
there is still a possibility that some of our list could receive infraction notices, and be suspended for 6/12/24 months, in which case, draft picks will be required.

if that happens, that will be punishment enough in itself. if not, then the stripping of premiership points is an enormous penalty, the likes of which has never been seen.

agreed draft picks will be required but they should be at the arse end of the draw.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think it's a really poor message that Essendon are committing to bring Hird straight back after his (possible) 12 month suspension. That is just not right. It's like a Squizzy Taylor sneering at the cameras on his way into jail, seeing a 1 year bid as just a mild interruption and normal service will resume as soon as he's done (I saw 5 mins of Underbelly last night, saw similarities in the disregard for the law). Shows no remorse, no actual "sorry, we really did the wrong thing here".

Are we seriously to accept all will be forgiven in 12 months? That sticks in the throat something fierce.

 

[melbournemartin]

A ban to Hird feels almost meaningless. Essendon should sack him anyway.

 

[Blue1980]

I think it's a really poor message that Essendon are committing to bring Hird straight back after his (possible) 12 month suspension. That is just not right. It's like a Squizzy Taylor sneering at the cameras on his way into jail, seeing a 1 year bid as just a mild interruption and normal service will resume as soon as he's done (I saw 5 mins of Underbelly last night, saw similarities in the disregard for the law). Shows no remorse, no actual "sorry, we really did the wrong thing here".

Are we seriously to accept all will be forgiven in 12 months? That sticks in the throat something fierce.

It's just PR spin to make it easier for Essendon fans and Luke Darcy to digest.

He won't return.

 

[Sterge]

hypothetical question
if you were charged with murder and were positive you had evidence to get you off innocent of all charges would you accept a plea deal for manslaughter?

Now replace murder with drug cheating and manslaughter with "poor governance"

 

[basashi]

This is what I want to happen:

1 - Any player who was administered a banned substance - 2 year ban (nonsensical to suggest any flexibility on that)
2 - Any coach, trainer, fitness guru, manager, official who knew and consented - Life ban
3 - Any coach, trainer, fitness guru, manager, official who didn't know but who bears some organisational responsibility and did not implement adequate controls to discharge that duty - 5 to 10 year bans.
4 - Serving board members during the event... at least 5 year bans from AFL involvement.

Other than that, you need to ensure that
1 - any individual award given to a player who has been administered a banned substance is forfeited

I would like the club to move on and I can't see the point in punishing the club as an entity, as long as the cancer is cut out.

 

[juss]

If Adelaide lost 2 years worth of picks for what they did, anything less than that as a minimum will be a joke. Essendon should then face the extra punishment of points (maybe for this year and next) and a hefty fine.

 

[JP Sauce]

Wholeheartedly agree. Points loss for 2013/14.

AND definitely no decent picks this year or next. Can't have a team playing for no points benefitting from a shit ladder position.

 

[The Goon]

It's just PR spin to make it easier for Essendon fans and Luke Darcy to digest.

He won't return.

Whether he returns or not will depend on how he communicates his side of the story to the public, and if there's any provable substantive difference between that and the AFL charge sheet. Much as it doesn't look good for him his side of the story has still not been told.

Having said that, if there are suspensions (even fully suspended) he'll never come back.