Final Membership Totals 2013

[Groupie_]

Ok then 2011 attendances including finals :-


Collingwood: 60,959
Carlton: 50,964
Essendon: 51,451
Hawthorn: 43,194

Just for a bit of preview of things to come here's 2001 :

Bombers 25 1,381,008
Tigers 25 1,173,875
Magpies 22 1,083,203
Blues 24 996,724
Hawks 25 909,950

I couldn't post a more recent one coz we haven't played finals since then

 

[Colonial]

Yes but Hawthorn brought more through the gate because of their success and I argue this should be counted.

If that was true based purely on success then shouldnt they have brought more through as well during the H/A season??

 

[Aphrodite]

2012 figures are more appropriate don't you think as they are more recent?

Wrong thread to be discussing this.

I have had my say and now back to Membership tally's.

 

[Holy Rioli]

If that was true based purely on success then shouldnt they have brought more through as well during the H/A season??

It doesn't help when we have home games drawn against Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, Brisbane, North Melbourne, Fremantle & GWS does it???? We were only missing Western Bulldogs from the set of teams your not going to get good home game crowds from.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Wrong thread to be discussing this.

I have had my say and now back to Membership tally's.

Fair enough I'll stop now too

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes but Hawthorn brought more through the gate because of their success and I argue this should be counted.

you are not arguing for 2012 though, you are arguing absolutely. Lets look at the last 5 years (when you have been at the peak of your powers - so I'm giving every advantage to you):


2012

Collingwood Magpies 25 1,415,870 56,635
Hawthorn Hawks 25 1,145,476 45,819
Essendon Bombers 22 994,993 45,227
Carlton Blues 22 965,201 43,873

2011
Collingwood Magpies 25 1,523,987 60,959
Essendon Bombers 23 1,183,367 51,451
Carlton Blues 24 1,223,133 50,964
Geelong Cats 25 1,095,299 43,812
Hawthorn Hawks 25 1,079,856 43,194

2010
Collingwood Magpies 26 1,661,843 63,917
Geelong Cats 25 1,187,403 47,496
Carlton Blues 23 1,088,175 47,312
Essendon Bombers 22 1,009,837 45,902
St Kilda Saints 26 1,151,970 44,307
Hawthorn Hawks 23 964,855 41,950

2009
Collingwood Magpies 25 1,423,603 56,944
Essendon Bombers 23 1,143,311 49,709
Carlton Blues 23 1,131,641 49,202
Geelong Cats 25 1,086,658 43,466
St Kilda Saints 25 1,028,918 41,157
Hawthorn Hawks 22 892,017 40,546

2008
Collingwood Magpies 24 1,361,689 56,737
Carlton Blues 22 1,070,500 48,659
Essendon Bombers 22 1,043,763 47,444
Hawthorn Hawks 25 1,164,396 46,576

So what does this tell us? In 5 years, of buddy love, flags, regular finals appearances, Hawthorn has only averaged more per game (including all finals) once that Carlton and Essendon. And this is giving the Hawks 10 finals games in that times compared to 2 for the Dons, and 4 for the Blues.

On history, these two plus the Pies get more through the gate than the Hawks.

 

[Hodge is God]

true

thats why you are the Tasmanian Hawks !

I'm glad we went, tried, and succeeded at that in Tasmania, 15 years ago we were in a hole, no money, no fans and no on-field successes.

Now we are really strong off and on the field. I am very proud of my club.

 

[Winestoppable]

Port Adelaide
29,726

 

[Rob]

It doesn't help when we have home games drawn against Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, Brisbane, North Melbourne, Fremantle & GWS does it???? We were only missing Western Bulldogs from the set of teams your not going to get good home game crowds from.

That's because you don't travel much for your away games (just 3 times by my count), which is presumably a request by the club given you travel for 4 home games. If you're not going to play interstate sides away, then obviously you're going to play them at home.

 

[Hawkk]

That's because you don't travel much for your away games (just 3 times by my count), which is presumably a request by the club given you travel for 4 home games. If you're not going to play interstate sides away, then obviously you're going to play them at home.

Exactly...it all evens out at the end of the day (I believe we were 7th for home attendance but 2nd for away attendances?)

That is aside from the 'blockbuster trio' (Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton and from time to time you can throw in Richmond) who evidently have a draw that is built around attracting huge crowds regardless of performance and relative drawing power for the season

...that said, you could probably make an argument that Hawthorn and Geelong themselves have draws that are structured around large attendance as well.

All in all using matchday attendance totals to make judgements on the validity of membership sizes is flawed given the inequalities in scheduling between the Big 3-4 Clubs, the Biggish 2-3 Clubs and the remaining Victorian Clubs.

 

[Groupie_]

Richmond

45,118

Membership is booming!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Exactly...it all evens out at the end of the day (I believe we were 7th for home attendance but 2nd for away attendances?)

That is aside from the 'blockbuster trio' (Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton and from time to time you can throw in Richmond) who evidently have a draw that is built around attracting huge crowds regardless of performance and relative drawing power for the season

...that said, you could probably make an argument that Hawthorn and Geelong themselves have draws that are structured around large attendance as well.

All in all using matchday attendance totals to make judgements on the validity of membership sizes is flawed given the inequalities in scheduling between the Big 3-4 Clubs, the Biggish 2-3 Clubs and the remaining Victorian Clubs.

Actually looking at away games only, Hawthorn still only finished above Carlton and Essendon once in the last five years for average attendances

2012
Collingwood Magpies 11 549,956 49,996
Hawthorn Hawks 11 515,866 46,897
Essendon Bombers 11 470,313 42,756
Carlton Blues 11 462,263
42,024


2011
Collingwood Magpies 11 593,587 53,962
Essendon Bombers 11 551,274 50,116
Carlton Blues 11 504,832 45,894
Geelong Cats 11 473,493 43,045
Hawthorn Hawks 11 464,153 42,196

2010
Collingwood Magpies 11 610,372 55,488
Geelong Cats 11 552,987 50,272
Essendon Bombers 11 523,810 47,619
Carlton Blues 11 518,485 47,135
Hawthorn Hawks 11 505,497 45,954

2009
Collingwood Magpies 11 602,156 54,741
Carlton Blues 11 572,721 52,066
Essendon Bombers 11 535,118 48,647
Geelong Cats 11 495,217 45,020
Hawthorn Hawks 11 456,807 41,528

2008
Collingwood Magpies 11 595,952 54,177
Carlton Blues 11 536,017 48,729
Essendon Bombers 11 534,072 48,552
Geelong Cats 11 512,985 46,635
Hawthorn Hawks 11 470,947 42,813

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Richmond 45, 118.

Huge number.

Richmond are an 8/10 draw. Collingwood 10/10. Essendon & Carlton 8.5/10 (only complimented by their blockbuster matches and set out draw). Hawthorn are 8/10 and Geelong is 7/10.

The reason Hawthorn and Richmond fans argue is because they're both on par right now even though they're lopsided on the ladder. Richmond supporters feel that once they get success they'll easily eclipse Hawthorn and possibly Carlton & Essendon.

That's a valid argument.

Hawthorn supporters feel Richmond will never get there so why even argue that point?

That's another valid argument.

If you conclude the drawing POWER of all clubs at their peak I think you'll see something like this.

Collingwood 10/10
Essendon 9.5/10 (not as many Vic supporters as Collingwood)
Richmond 9-9.5/10 (Strong Vic base but small interstate membership base)
Carlton 9-9.5/10 (Loads of casuals who are nothing more, cannot convert into paying members)
Hawthorn 8/10 (This is their peak, their maximum and it's pretty good).

 

[Hawkk]

Actually looking at away games only, Hawthorn still only finished above Carlton and Essendon once in the last five years for average attendances

I was refering to last year only, generally our home/away numbers are no where near as lopsidded as last year...

My point regarding the lopsided fixture between the Biggish 6 Victorian Clubs and the rest still stands...

 

[Cmarsh]

10,386

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

Richmond

45,118

Membership is booming!

Will be level with Hawthorn before round one.

 

[Hawkk]

Richmond 45, 118.

Huge number.

Richmond are an 8/10 draw. Collingwood 10/10. Essendon & Carlton 8.5/10 (only complimented by their blockbuster matches and set out draw). Hawthorn are 8/10 and Geelong is 7/10.

The reason Hawthorn and Richmond fans argue is because they're both on par right now even though they're lopsided on the ladder. Richmond supporters feel that once they get success they'll easily eclipse Hawthorn and possibly Carlton & Essendon.

That's a valid argument.

Hawthorn supporters feel Richmond will never get there so why even argue that point?

That's another valid argument.

If you conclude the drawing POWER of all clubs at their peak I think you'll see something like this.

Collingwood 10/10
Essendon 9.5/10 (not as many Vic supporters as Collingwood)
Richmond 9-9.5/10 (Strong Vic base but small interstate membership base)
Carlton 9-9.5/10 (Loads of casuals who are nothing more, cannot convert into paying members)
Hawthorn 8/10 (This is their peak, their maximum and it's pretty good).

Your rankings are probably spot on. That said, and refering strictly to your definition of 'peak' performance are you looking at overall numbers or relative numbers? Whilst the Hawks might be at the peak of their powers at the moment do they have greater capacity to draw greater crowds? Absolutely, more games at the MCG against big Victorian and non-Victorian clubs (i.e. the Swans and Eagles) would result in a significant increase in numbers. But that in itself is another argument, the bigger the club, the more AFL ‘sanctioned’ prime time blockbusters the clubs receives, the more the gap between the bigger and smaller clubs is highlighted.

Collingwood is a huge club but par for course does anyone really think they would draw 30-35,000 more of their fans every game as opposed to North Melbourne or the Bulldogs?

The capacity to participate in 'prime time' games and draw significant crowds is increasingly stacked against the smaller clubs...its the domain of the larger clubs and the not the better performing clubs.

Thats not a complaint because I support Hawthorn (we could do alot worse) but an observation about the trials and tribulations faced by some of the other clubs whodont benefit from 'blockbuster scheduling'

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I was refering to last year only, generally our home/away numbers are no where near as lopsidded as last year...

My point regarding the lopsided fixture between the Biggish 6 Victorian Clubs and the rest still stands...

I think 1 year is too small a sample though to make a point, you need to look at several years running to see the real trend. And the original point that started this discussion (by another poster) was that Hawthorn out draw Essendon and Carlton. The numbers show 2012 was the only time this happened, be it home, away, or including finals.

Also I think you are over-estimating the idea of 6 Vic clubs being artificially boosted at the expense of the rest.

Pies - no argument!

Dons - have to play some big games at Etihad, would definitely raise numbers if allowed to play all big games at the G

Carlton - still play the bulk of their home games at Etihad
Hawthorn - 4 games at Aurora, would get more if these were at Etihad/MCG
Geelong - 7 games at Simonds, would get more if these were at Etihad/MCG
Richmond - Only play Essendon & Blues twice, also get a good chunk of the unpopular timeslots due to many years of being shit to watch

Of these clubs, 4 would see numbers go up just on stadium shifts, regardless of who they play. Richmond I disagree has been gifted with an attendance maximizing draw, our shitness means we get twilight games and rarely multiple games against the big boys (although this is beginning to change, with us play Ess/Cart twice two years running now).

 

[scottwade]

Port Adelaide
29,726

The AFL hasn't done Port any favours.
Next 2 NAB Cup games, in Renmark and Alice Springs (no TV coverage for either) and RD 1 of the season proper, away to Melbourne.
Compared to Adelaide; NAB Cup rd 2 away to Geelong, then home to Carlton, both games live on Foxtel and then Adelaide play the first game of the 2013 AFL season, a Friday night game at home to Essendon.

I realise I'm preaching to the converted, but not much opportunity for hype/excitement to get Port members onboard.

 

[Oneiros]

I know that the issue has been largely moved on from, but an aspect no one pointed out that seems relevant is that Hawthorn's large away attendance is probably in large part to do with their memberships, last time that I checked, including entry to a number of non-Hawthorn home games as make-up games to Melbourne members to bring their total number of games back up to 11, so some of their away games are pseudo-home games.

I have to say, if there is one thing I envy most about the Melbourne-based membership options, it's the away entry options...

 

[Colonial]

I know that the issue has been largely moved on from, but an aspect no one pointed out that seems relevant is that Hawthorn's large away attendance is probably in large part to do with their memberships, last time that I checked, including entry to a number of non-Hawthorn home games as make-up games to Melbourne members to bring their total number of games back up to 11, so some of their away games are pseudo-home games.

I have to say, if there is one thing I envy most about the Melbourne-based membership options, it's the away entry options...

It helps that pretty much all their games wether home or away are within 10 mins of each other.

 

[Oneiros]

Oh, and Eagles membership tally currently listing 54,801 members. Not a bad effort considering we ran out of seats for them like 16,000 members ago...

 

[mighty tiges]

Swans members email today says Sydney has reached 28000 members.

22,000 of them NSW based which is impressive. Add the 7000 non-Canberra members of GWS and that's almost 30k AFL club members and growing in a non-traditional Aussie Rules state like NSW . If you said that 20-30 years ago the men in white coats would've come and taken you away.

 

[Arwib]

22,000 of them NSW based which is impressive. Add the 7000 non-Canberra members of GWS and that's almost 30k AFL club members and growing in a non-traditional Aussie Rules state like NSW . If you said that 20-30 years ago the men in white coats would've come and taken you away.

Where's the NSW number for Sydney? Always keen to find that detail.

 

[Bluelegs]

Melbourne: 24,801