Coach Football department changes going forward

[4Seasons]

Not sure if it was coaching or players taking the wrong option but the fwd line was dysfunctional Considering our inside 50s. Our conversion against good teams is poor and as suggested above we do smash the bottom teams.

classic example was the Geelong game at Marvel, we just kept bombing in when Naughton was our only tall. Leading patterns are average at best and quite often we have no one front and centre but all 3 flying for the same ball.

Spangher looks like a likeable guy and maybe has great people skills, but has he any coaching nous, on evidence not a lot.

it is strange we seem to have very little interest in scouting experienced coaches like Ratten. Bevo and Ratten have a pretty good relationship, would have been a good fit for us. All hope for reaching our potential now is on Lades shoulders.

Ratten lol, the dude sacked from two clubs to support our premiership coach
Bev may have his faults, but doesn’t need support to finish 7|8 on a ladder…

 

[doggiesin08]

I’m not happy with how the fwd line functions = Spangher must be s**t.

Pretty much sums up the last 12hrs of posting.

Have we given any thought to what he has to work with? Our main fwd half targets were 22, 21 and 20 years of age. All performed incredibly well.

Why is this completely ignored by the Anti Spangher Cult?

It’s even more than that. Those 3 players had half a game up forward together before the first final. We played some games with 3 talls, others with 2 proper talls and others again with Cordy or Buku as 2nd banana. I also remember the first game against Hawks seeing JUH, Naughton, O’Brien and Schache all in straight line between the goal square and 50m arc for centre bounces.

No shit our blokes get in each other’s space. An experienced line coach would have struggled with the way we chopped and changed not just personelle but structures.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Ratten lol, the dude sacked from two clubs to support our premiership coach
Bev may have his faults, but doesn’t need support to finish 7|8 on a ladder…

With a list quarter as talented with no A grade players apart from Steele.

With that crap list he out coached Bevo in a Elim. List management passed up on 2 of the 3 best midfielders in the AFL and the best contested marking key position player since Carey and we landed 2 of them with later picks.

the coach is only as good as the cattle he has at his disposal.

Seriously I am bemused by supporters who rate coaches without looking at the playing list, the recruiting, facilities and the administration of the club. Those 4 factors are as important as the coach.

Parkin and Clarkson rates Ratten and so does Bevo so that is good enough for me.

 

[4Seasons]

I’d guess even most 300 game players don’t usually jump into line coaching, I’m sure there’s examples out there of guys who have but I can’t really think of one off the top of my head tbh!

Be an example.
You are an expert on pretty much everything.
Be a coach..IMO, FWIW, your essays are what the club needs.
JNO, YSR,

With a list quarter as talented with no A grade players apart from Steele.

With that crap list he out coached Bevo in a Elim. List management passed up on 2 of the 3 best midfielders in the AFL and the best contested marking key position player since Carey and we landed 2 of them with later picks.

the coach is only as good as the cattle he has at his disposal.

Seriously I am bemused by supporters who rate coaches without looking at the playing list, the recruiting, facilities and the administration of the club. Those 4 factors are as important as the coach.

Parkin and Clarkson rates Ratten and so does Bevo so that is good enough for me.

you should include ‘generational talent’

 

[Martyn_30_]

Not sure how what you're saying hurts my argument, if anything it helps it?

Western Bulldogs
The Bulldogs are the AFL's best stoppage team statistically, ranking No.1 for both clearance differential (+8.2) and scores from stoppages (+9.5).

This is because we pretty much always have an extra number at the stoppage, which has to have come from somewhere, majority of the time the forward line. It does help that because of our list the "extra forward" is a midfielder being forced to play forward.

My point is that you clearly don't have an extra at the centre bounce which is a much easier way to score than general stoppages. Every team in the league has a half forward pushing up to the stoppage so the opposition wingman isnt free at the back, the difference is the bulldogs half forward is generally a genuine midfielder who impacts the stoppage.

 

[doggies ftw]

My point is that you clearly don't have an extra at the centre bounce which is a much easier way to score than general stoppages. Every team in the league has a half forward pushing up to the stoppage so the opposition wingman isnt free at the back, the difference is the bulldogs half forward is generally a genuine midfielder who impacts the stoppage.

The extra is also not relevant for the other half of footy, ie when the balls in motion, end to end transition etc

If rolling an extra up to the stoppage is effecting our forward line so badly then that tactic needs to be under review

 

[Martyn_30_]

The extra is also not relevant for the other half of footy, ie when the balls in motion, end to end transition etc

If rolling an extra up to the stoppage is effecting our forward line so badly then that tactic needs to be under review

It’s not a tactic when everyone team does it. What generally happens is the opposition follows the bulldogs player into the stoppage instead of dropping off because they’re not just another forward, this actually helps to create space forward of the ball. The tactical issues are more so inside 50 with to much bombing to Naughton and hoping and not enough smalls ringing the drop of the ball.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[doggies ftw]

It’s not a tactic when everyone team does it. What generally happens is the opposition follows the bulldogs player into the stoppage instead of dropping off because they’re not just another forward, this actually helps to create space forward of the ball. The tactical issues are more so inside 50 with to much bombing to Naughton and hoping and not enough smalls ringing the drop of the ball.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah I agree with you there - I was just speaking generally as posters were claiming that our forward line is playing a man down due to rolling up one to the stoppage which really isn’t the case as you’ve pointed out

 

[my plums]

From SEN.

The Lions have also appointed Dale Morris as a development coach for 2023, the only change in the club’s coaching structure for the upcoming season

Hopefully learn at another club and come home......same with Boyd and Murph.

He had already moved up to Queensland before getting this role. So a move back might not be in the cards....

 

[geoffjennings79]

Isn't the reason we dominate in the midfield and therefore inside 50 numbers because we push our half-forwards flanker(s) up to the contest to gain an extra number there? This gets highlighted pretty much every week. So doesn't that also mean we're an extra man DOWN in the forward 50, essentially? Not sure how much success you guys are expecting us to have in a 5 v 6 (or a lot of the times 7) when the majority of the midfielders delivering the ball in couldn't put a marble up an elephants a-hole from 6 inches.

Sure there's elements of the forward line we can improve, just as there's elements on every line we can improve, but I don't see Spangher as THE issue.

And also let's just ignore the biggest elephant in the room, that being that none of us have any idea of the impact Spangher is having on the players whether positive or negative. Sure, sprout your theories but they are just that. Don't pretend you're some kind of expert and have insider knowledge.

Surely there must be a way to like a post 58 billion times...

Did you guys play that game as youngsters too!?

Our biggest issue was trying to find an elephant in the inner-west in the late 60s/early 70s, and even when we did, no one was game to try to retrieve the marbles!

 

[immortalmike]

I really enjoyed the arguments explaining why we needn't worry about the functioning of our forward line.

First it was "there's no problem we were 5th in scoring".
Followed immediately by "if there is a problem it's league wide".
Then "but also our perfectly functioning forward line is is full of kids"
And finally "it's not our forwards but our mids that are the problem."

So what is it guys? Is there a problem or not? If there isn't there sure are a lot of excuses for something that's not an issue.

Truth is we have struggled to get easy goals and even score at all for large periods when under any pressure. Watching from the ground it often seems that we struggle for any system both going forward and in our forward line. I'm don't know if Spangher is any good but I'd sure feel more comfortable with a senior head looking after that part of the ground especially with so many young players in there.

 

[doggies ftw]

Then "but also our perfectly functioning forward line is is full of kids"
And finally "it's not our forwards but our mids that are the problem."
Truth is we have struggled to get easy goals and even score at all for large periods when under any pressure. Watching from the ground it often seems that we struggle for any system both going forward and in our forward line. I'm don't know if Spangher is any good but I'd sure feel more comfortable with a senior head looking after that part of the ground especially with so many young players in there.

Nailed it Mike,

Maybe Spangher is the GOAT of coaches but considering our complete lack of ability to attract anyone decent even with a killer young list to work with and under a premiership coach and his complete, unheard of, rise to the role - it seems we’ve just grabbed any decent bloke with past connections to the head coach that we could find.

Also you forgot my favourite one: “Our forward lines been shit for 60 years so it’s not his fault it’s still shit”

Good to see our expectations are high

 

[Fossie 32]

I really enjoyed the arguments explaining why we needn't worry about the functioning of our forward line.

First it was "there's no problem we were 5th in scoring".
Followed immediately by "if there is a problem it's league wide".
Then "but also our perfectly functioning forward line is is full of kids"
And finally "it's not our forwards but our mids that are the problem."

So what is it guys? Is there a problem or not? If there isn't there sure are a lot of excuses for something that's not an issue.

Truth is we have struggled to get easy goals and even score at all for large periods when under any pressure. Watching from the ground it often seems that we struggle for any system both going forward and in our forward line. I'm don't know if Spangher is any good but I'd sure feel more comfortable with a senior head looking after that part of the ground especially with so many young players in there.

Last para is spot on for me I think defence is average same with forward line but covered up by midfield being above average resulting in more opportunities than average but poor conversion

 

[immortalmike]

Also you forgot my favourite one: “Our forward lines been s**t for 60 years so it’s not his fault it’s still s**t”

Good to see our expectations are highhigh

Yeah that one can get in the bin with "Beveridge is the best coach in our history". Yeah I don't give a shit. I want someone who's better than the best coach in AFL history.
Mind you that may be Bevo, but we'll never find out with our shitty administration and football department.

 

[ossie_21]

How many years have we watched us lock the ball in for repeat entries, absolutely dominating possession and territory, but not converting enough on the scoreboard?

Then the few times the opposition get it going the other way, it’s done easily and they get a straightforward goal. Too often our forward line has 20 players in it with no room to do anything, that’s a structure and game plan issue

 

[Pugz89]

AGM slated for Dec 19, followed by a Q&A session with senior club representatives. Perhaps a good time to ask about the internal review and changes it may bring.

 

[doggies ftw]

How many years have we watched us lock the ball in for repeat entries, absolutely dominating possession and territory, but not converting enough on the scoreboard?

Then the few times the opposition get it going the other way, it’s done easily and they get a straightforward goal. Too often our forward line has 20 players in it with no room to do anything, that’s a structure and game plan issue

Yep this, and then this year finally the dam wall broke and we lost the ability to lock the ball in, coupled with the still poor efficiency and look what happened to our results

 

[The Inbetweener]

I think all in all we’ve had a great off season. Brought in a best 22 KPD and KPF (who can also provide ruck relief), the assets we lost (Hunter, Cordy and Schache) were border line best 22. Dunkley hurts but we extracted decent compo for him. There is every chance had Brisbane accepted our first request of pick 15 being included in the trade, we may have just used it on Clarke anyway, so having pick upgrades for next is great. Drafting the best developing KPD was the cherry on top.

The only thing for me is our footy dept changes. Only bringing in Lade and Martin doesn’t strike me with a lot of confidence. Is there any other speculation on who else we may bring in, even in non coaching roles? Has Maple been replaced?

 

[Libbaaaa]

I think all in all we’ve had a great off season. Brought in a best 22 KPD and KPF (who can also provide ruck relief), the assets we lost (Hunter, Cordy and Schache) were border line best 22. Dunkley hurts but we extracted decent compo for him. There is every chance had Brisbane accepted our first request of pick 15 being included in the trade, we may have just used it on Clarke anyway, so having pick upgrades for next is great. Drafting the best developing KPD was the cherry on top.

The only thing for me is our footy dept changes. Only bringing in Lade and Martin doesn’t strike me with a lot of confidence. Is there any other speculation on who else we may bring in, even in non coaching roles? Has Maple been replaced?

I guess we all wanted wholesale changes to the footy department but taking a step back I don't think many clubs would completely overhaul the coaches off the back of a grand final and finals appearance (even taking into account how poor the end result of those campaigns were). Webb has a year left and has already been demoted, so he is gone unless marked improvement is shown, while Spangher rightfully needs another year to try to make forward line gel.

 

[willofwest]

AGM slated for Dec 19, followed by a Q&A session with senior club representatives. Perhaps a good time to ask about the internal review and changes it may bring.

I have posted a question to the AGM about getting another senior assistant coach into the group. See if it gets up ? and answered.

 

[stefoid]

Was our forward line really that bad last year? We outscored all bar 4 teams while relying on the likes of Zaine Cordy to play as a second tall forward for a chunk of the year.

On the surface Spangher looked under-qualified, but that stat is probably either on par or even ahead of where most would rate our forward line. Gives me flashback to people complaining about King, Gia and Hansen who are probably all now in the top 10 "next in line" assistants and at other clubs.

EDIT: Just saw someone made a similar comments above. While I'd agree that we let the ball walk out of forward 50, that isn't neccessary a reflection on Spangher's coaching. Clearly bevo for some weird reason loves the concept of winning back the ball without applying any forward pressure.

Our total points for are inflated by a few huge beltings of bottom teams. I think if someone did a 'points for' total against only top 8 teams, we wouldnt look great, and those are the games were ability to score really matters.

Having said that, I dont think its our forward line that is the real issue. Those games where we score poorly against good teams is because we struggle to bring the ball forward quickly and directly, resulting in kicking into a crowded forward 50.

Our inability to score is basically a result of our overly defensive system which I think was designed a few years ago to paper over our dodgy defence. That has to change, one way or another. Better defenders, better ball carriers out of defence and through the midfield... then with the talent we have up fortward, the ahem.....goals will take care of themselves

 

[_Cerberus_]

Our total points for are inflated by a few huge beltings of bottom teams. I think if someone did a 'points for' total against only top 8 teams, we wouldnt look great, and those are the games were ability to score really matters.

Having said that, I dont think its our forward line that is the real issue. Those games where we score poorly against good teams is because we struggle to bring the ball forward quickly and directly, resulting in kicking into a crowded forward 50.

Our inability to score is basically a result of our overly defensive system which I think was designed a few years ago to paper over our dodgy defence. That has to change, one way or another. Better defenders, better ball carriers out of defence and through the midfield... then with the talent we have up fortward, the ahem.....goals will take care of themselves

We have had the most 100 point wins over the last few seasons than any other team if I recall from memory. Three of those teams were North, Saints and Eagles. None of those teams made the finals, and two finished in the bottom two.

Points for and against is fun to look at. But often it can be skewered by some games acting as massive outliers. It is clear as day just by watching us play vs good teams, that our forward third is disfuctional, struggles to create chances, or kick a winning score despite our massive inside 50 totals most weeks. We are also an opposition intercept defenders wet dream. They literally rack up massive intercept and marking totals vs us, that I am sure many have our games circled in on their calendars.

Until we improve our kicking inside 50, to actually kicking low and hitting targets on the lead, instead of the high bomb to no one game plan. And that our forwards start working to create space for each other instead of every man and his dog trying to jump for the same ball. It will continue to be an Achilles heel. No matter how much size or talent we put in the forward 50.

 

[dergert]

Bevo's scored a 2 year extension.

At least it takes that question mark over him throughout the year.

 

[adogsfan5]

Bevo's scored a 2 year extension.

At least it takes that question mark over him throughout the year.

I would have waited. Deserves some heat to perform.

 

[Struggle]

I would have waited. Deserves some heat to perform.

Waiting lets other teams get a foot in the door