Footy Preseason Training

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BB bench presses are required to build foundation/tendon strength so they do have their place but size wise they don’t really follow the natural path of the Pecs and will only give initial size gains.. after that db variations are probably better as they allow for a greater angle of motion thus time under tension...
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As you say you are after relative strength so why would drop the greatest upper body strength builder to focus on building your chest with an inferior (strength wise) movement?

performance wise I’d be more interested in what you can do for a 3 rep max chin up which correlates a lot better to performance because it's a measure of relative strength
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All strength is relative, the 3RM chin up might be a good display of relative strength but that doesn’t mean it develops it the most efficiently.

I’m not sure how they decrease injuries, if anything they'll increase your injury risk because of it's limited range of motion and repetitive motion on the same joints...why not do 3 x 1km runs, cut your training time in half and probably double you intensity?
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It helps by developing the ability to transport oxygen and waste products more efficiently, this imo is something you want to have before you place the greater stress of hard intervals on the muscles (it would help recovery during the rest intervals), of course if you are currently a big bastard like myself you probably wouldn’t want to go for a 5km run and would stick to a bike.

I’ve seen a lot more people blow up doing hard intervals than I have going for a jog.

training is about managing fatigue more so then inducing it...your aim should be to train as close to the threshold as you can but still come back to the your next training session at 100% freshness...unfortunately most of our recovery modes involve a shower and the drive home so we're hardly recovered at all (physiologically or psychologically) before our next session would you agree with that?
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Although yeah I agree recovery is important, the body’s adaption to training while fatigued can actually be beneficial.
 
who voted the bench press the best? it's the best strength movement for horizontal pressing but the upper body does a lot more then that...what about shoulder presses, chin ups, db rows...why aren't they the best? it all depends what you need to do i suppose

it has been found that chin up strength correlates with sprinting speed, the ultimate relative strength quality

you can rid waste products by doing 1km intervals too...you can jog 1km too and ramp up there by beating your time each interval thus allowing you the warm up required for all out effort so long as you're not too tired...just because you do it easier, jogging rather then sprinting, why do we have to further? if you have 50gs to bench press with and instead of adding wt you just ept doing more reps then you wouldn't get stronger and in fact you'd probably get weaker so running further just because it's easier doesn't make a lot of sense but you still put a boatload of pressure on the ankle, knee and hip joints

i do know for a fact that juddy does do 10km runs in his off season though...
 
cptkirk said:
who voted the bench press the best? it's the best strength movement for horizontal pressing but the upper body does a lot more then that...what about shoulder presses, chin ups, db rows...why aren't they the best? it all depends what you need to do i suppose
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Why is BP the best upperbody strength movement? because it uses the most muscle and weight.

Shoulder Presses- less muscle and weight used
DB Rows- less muscle and weight used
Chin Ups- debatable

Anyway I was originally responding to your claim that Bench press would not help at all for football, you then suggested a BP variation.

it has been found that chin up strength correlates with sprinting speed, the ultimate relative strength quality
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Correlates? yeah as they are both measures of a decent strength to weight ratio, will doing chinups help your sprintining speed? nah not to any noticeable degree.

you can rid waste products by doing 1km intervals too...you can jog 1km too and ramp up there by beating your time each interval thus allowing you the warm up required for all out effort so long as you're not too tired...just because you do it easier, jogging rather then sprinting, why do we have to further? if you have 50gs to bench press with and instead of adding wt you just ept doing more reps then you wouldn't get stronger and in fact you'd probably get weaker so running further just because it's easier doesn't make a lot of sense but you still put a boatload of pressure on the ankle, knee and hip joints
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You run for longer to get a greater training effect, strength training and endurance training are completely different.
 

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like i said, great for strength but not that great for muscle gaining...i didn't say it wouldn't help, id aid that db variations will probably carry over more then the bb version was all

chin ups will definately not increase your speed, not enough to notice anyway but if you can do chin ups with 50% of your bw added to your bodyweight, chances are you'll also be or at least have the potential after a little bit of coaching to be quicker then most

why would it be a "greater" training effect? different yes, greater? not sure...greater effect for endurance for sure
 
cptkirk said:
the days of endless are over, it's all about being smarter with your training...do shorter runs but do them at a quicker pace...when do you ever run 5kms straight in a game? never...it;s all about hard sprints x 30 - 100m mixed with a 30 - 50% jog

afl teams only do 2 - 3km time trials these days
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Yeah fair call. Though I'm talking early pre season when trying to bulid up your base fitness. Than after Christmas as you mentioned hit the repetitive sprints. Anyway I've found this works best for me.
 
Yeah fair call. Though I'm talking early pre season when trying to bulid up your base fitness. Than after Christmas as you mentioned hit the repetitive sprints. Anyway I've found this works best for me.
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spot on...most if us will start at 10km runs then decrease the length to sprints later but you've got to be able to sprint fast for 50m before you can sprint fast for 100 so a better option for mine would be to do more repated sprints over a short distance such as interval training over boring as shit jogging
 
The bench press is the most over-rated lift ever. The overhead press is SO much more valuable then the bench.

As Bill Starr has stated, the 250lb overhead presser will beat the 400lb bencher everytime on the football field.

Wanna bench? Use the incline. Far harder to cheat and uses the shoulders a lot more.



Leave the bench for the pretty boys at the gym.
 
Fire Storm said:
The bench press is the most over-rated lift ever. The overhead press is SO much more valuable then the bench.

As Bill Starr has stated, the 250lb overhead presser will beat the 400lb bencher everytime on the football field.

Wanna bench? Use the incline. Far harder to cheat and uses the shoulders a lot more.



Leave the bench for the pretty boys at the gym.
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Any chance you will explain Bill's/your theory?
 
i'm not sure if shoulder or chest strength and footy playing ability actually correlates but it very well might carry over better to performance

bench presses are performed lying down as we all know so their is some but limited core use

in a shoulder press the core is the limiting factor in how much you can lift in that actual exercise where you can have a weak core but still bench a fair bit
 
cptkirk said:
i'm not sure if shoulder or chest strength and footy playing ability actually correlates but it very well might carry over better to performance

bench presses are performed lying down as we all know so their is some but limited core use

in a shoulder press the core is the limiting factor in how much you can lift in that actual exercise where you can have a weak core but still bench a fair bit
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WTF? The limiting factor is that you are using primarily your shoulders. Anyone that squats or deadlifts would have more than enough 'core' strength to press. This whole concept of exercise specifity is a load of bullshit.
 
The limiting factor is that you are using primarily your shoulders
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for most of us your core is no where near as strong as your shoulders...if tyou can't transfer force from your lower body to your upper body through the core, you'll struggle big time

what are the reasons for your view?
 

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I'll explain, when you squat you use your core to stabilise, this will enable the transfer power from your legs to the bar. If your core was too weak you would either fall forward or your back would give out, when military pressing you would be doing pretty much the same thing. I have yet to see anyone who can seated press (where core strength wouldn't be a factor) more than they can squat or deadlift even for complete beginners.
 
I'll explain, when you squat you use your core to stabilise, this will enable the transfer power from your legs to the bar.
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agreed but with shoulder presses the levarage point for a lack of better word is different as now your longer (arms up) and you have top actually hold it there, not pull it not your uppr back as with squats

if your core was too weak you would either fall forward or your back would give out, when military pressing you would be doing pretty much the same thing.
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again correct, if i saw 10 blokes do a shoulder press with decent wt in any gym i'd easily see 9, and probably all of them, going into lumbar hyperextension from their core, not their back, giving out.

I have yet to see anyone who can seated press (where core strength wouldn't be a factor) more than they can squat or deadlift even for complete beginners
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again correct, and so they shouldn't

i was talking weak links...the core is usually the weak link in a shoulder press...if the body senses that their is instability (weak core) it will shut down the prime movers (shoulders)..for squats it's probably also core (can't sit back or get to parallel) although it could be instability of the knee or simply a lack of ankle and/or hip mobility...probably all 3 really
 
swiftdog said:
Why is it a load of bullshit? Collingwood have a machine at the Lexus Centre purely devoted to emulate a tackling motion, can't get much more specific than that.
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lol are you serious? Is it technique based (understandable) or resistance/strength based?

they have way too much money....
 
cptkirk said:
i was talking weak links...the core is usually the weak link in a shoulder press...
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If my statement of "I have yet to see anyone who can seated press (where core strength wouldn't be a factor) more than they can squat or deadlift even for complete beginners" is correct as you suggest than how can the above be true? what am I missing?
 
i've seen those tackeling machines, not sure about them myself but i casn see what they're trying to do...there is a time when you can get "too' specific

i was referring to a standing shoulder press ober
 
Your core, the power center of your body is your strongest muscles of your body. The hips/glutes/lower back. Thats where you power comes from.

Squat deep. Do Good Mornings and some power movements, cleans, pulls and snatches.


You'll beat the guy who does benches and curls and floats around on a ball training his 'core' everytime.
 

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